Didn't read thro the thread, but i have to AGREE with the OP.

I've got to r15 with my chosen, and while i was having fun to start, now i'm starting to tire of scenarios, which i have been mostly doing to level as i'm finding the pve lacking.

RvR i haven't had the chance to try, not from want of trying Maybe i'm just unlucky but evertime i head off to do some RVR, theres either no one there or its a gankfest.!

The PQ's are ok, but become stale very quick. TBH i bough this game for the RvR, maybe i will see more of that when i reach tier 3/4. Thats if i reach that tier before my first free month's trial expires. I'm in two minds to making a subscribtion (leaning towards no atm)

Originally posted by madmax286

One second there Apraxis,

I consider myself a casual gamer and play MMO's from 5 to 8 hours per week and I do read the the MMORPG.com forums when I see an interesting discussion going on which doesn't turn into a flamefest ( this topic for example).

Now Warhammer is, for the moment at least, the most efficient game I play. What do I mean by that? I log for only 2 hours and play for 2 hours. They have minimized downtime. No more looking for groups, endless traveling  (I made this comment earlier in this topic as well). In other games I might have logged for 2 hours but my gametime would have been 30mins tops considering all the time sinks. Unfortunately today I don't have the time I had when I was a student and could devote 8-10 hours of playtime in a game. 

From a casual gamers perspective what is currently happening in WAR is very good. Granted, the community of this game should come together. The developer should help in this direction by providing elements both in game and out of it (more chat channels and official forums perhaps). But then again providing those elements might become a boomerang (devil's advocate here). Nevertheless, the fact that the basic principle of WAR is supporting casual gamers by minimizing downtime is a very strong point in my book.

At the same time I really wish the game companies would evolve the genre beyond games like WoW, War or EQ providing more sandbox games. I'm certain there is a segment of the  market out there waiting for a game like this which the consumer base would surely support.  

Ok, granted, you are maybe one of the very few casuals reading and posting at mmorpg.com or any forum.

And for the record.. it is not your fault, that we the old schoolers(or a lot of) are not happy with the trend of the mmorpgs genre, as much as it is not the fault for the finance oriented companies. The companies do, what is their purpose, making money.. and the make the most money with games for the majority.. and the majority nowadays are gamers like you. And it is absolutely ok, that casuals like you have games for their necessities. Well.. from time to time even i nowadays tend to be more of  casual(at least i am now 32 years old.. and time becomes rare occasionally)

But with 32 years, and 25 years of gaming i think sometimes back, as game designers were gamers and just wanted to make their dream game(and money was not so much of a interest). Where their were games, which were very demanding and challenging(like solo rpgs with over 150 hours of playtimes, anyone see something like that recently?) and really hard to play through, when even possible(like chaos strike back), were innovation and fun was the key for new developments(when i think about games like lemmings, black&white, Z and to much to name all here), then i miss those old times, and those game developers.. because there are just a few out there nowadays, and it is a lot harder for them to compete with the tremendous amount of money from the big companies(graphical packaging, advertisement and withit hype, and what not)

However.. as i said before, the time goes on, and we have to live withit, and accept those changes.

Originally posted by rizzi

Didn't read thro the thread, but i have to AGREE with the OP.

I've got to r15 with my chosen, and while i was having fun to start, now i'm starting to tire of scenarios, which i have been mostly doing to level as i'm finding the pve lacking.

RvR i haven't had the chance to try, not from want of trying Maybe i'm just unlucky but evertime i head off to do some RVR, theres either no one there or its a gankfest.!

The PQ's are ok, but become stale very quick. TBH i bough this game for the RvR, maybe i will see more of that when i reach tier 3/4. Thats if i reach that tier before my first free month's trial expires. I'm in two minds to making a subscribtion (leaning towards no atm)

 

 

Join an open group, but get into RvR.  It's what the game is all about IMO.  If you haven't started RvR and you're thinking that you've experienced all there is you're missing the entire point of the game.

 OP is spot on.

Scenarios and low population are killing this game. It's like mythic are trying to prevent people from actually enjoying the game, increase the rewards for attacking/defending keeps and increase the stupidly low realm population and this would be one of the best game on the market. As it it is it's just a glorified version of CS.

Originally posted by madmax286

From a casual gamers perspective what is currently happening in WAR is very good. Granted, the community of this game should come together. The developer should help in this direction by providing elements both in game and out of it (more chat channels and official forums perhaps). But then again providing those elements might become a boomerang (devil's advocate here). Nevertheless, the fact that the basic principle of WAR is supporting casual gamers by minimizing downtime is a very strong point in my book.

At the same time I really wish the game companies would evolve the genre beyond games like WoW, War or EQ providing more sandbox games. I'm certain there is a segment of the  market out there waiting for a game like this which the consumer base would surely support.  

I agree with so much of what you said in this quote and even the part I snipped out.

One of the bigger problems that I have seen in Warhammer is that is almost seems Mythic went out of their way to make it either impossible or cumbersome at best to try to communicate with other people in the game or out of game.  This comes off as very strange to me seeing just how much emphasis Mythic has put on "this is a team game" mantra they toss out in every interview.

From the lack of forums, chat channels, open group, useless tradeskills, no decent LFG tool, lack of any reliable realm battle information, etc etc.  The game seems to be suffocating from a lack of information exchange.  Be it out of game or in game, people just are not talking. 

Honestly the only people I see talking are the gold spammers and they are driving me nuts.

Three things need to be done ASP, imo.

1) Nerf XP in scenarios by 50% or just do away with them entirely.

2) Increase XP in RvR lake areas.

3) Give Open RvR servers a real rule set.

Mythic claimed they learned from the mistakes they made in DAoC. I don't see it. I love this game, but those 3 issues are going to bring it down.

if id had still been playing tier 1,I would have called the OP a troll.

unfortunately,hes totally right. the game is just dead,not because no one plays,but because scenarios are the thing to do. this becomes very apparent once you hit tier 2 and 3.

its such a shame as this game had the potential to be amazing,but mythic have totally dropped the ball with horrible chat and scenario grinds.

world pvp has practically zero focus as everyone is afk in warcamps,scenario queing.

the real question is how many people will still be playing after their first month? and then a month later lich king hits,what happens then?

Im also utterly amazed that there are actually people saying "this isnt a pvp game!!1" and "go back to daoc!!". are people really that dumb?

Originally posted by brostyn

Three things need to be done ASP, imo.

1) Nerf XP in scenarios by 50% or just do away with them entirely.

2) Increase XP in RvR lake areas.

3) Give Open RvR servers a real rule set.

 

Mythic claimed they learned from the mistakes they made in DAoC. I don't see it. I love this game, but those 3 issues are going to bring it down.

  I totally agree with point two. (three I really don't care about as I don't play on an open ruleset).  But nerfing the exp by 50% might be a bit much, perhaps more around the 25-30% range.  If the exp in the lakes was increased with scenarios decreased it would get everyone out of the bloody scenarios and into some real RvR.

Apraxis,

I agree with what you said on the last page.

However I think the solution is to simply not buy and subscribe to these game, do not compromise!

Even if the people wanting oldschool mmo's is only 10% of the mmo population then thats 10% less money for devs not making games for us.

Giving them your money is just feeding the machine thats pumping out shit.

That and make our voices heard loud and clear on forums like this so on the off chance that game company exec's take a look at them they realise that there is a unfilled gap in the market that they could be profiting from.

Overall I don't think the game will die but I don't think it will be a big hit either, after the newness wears off I think it'll turn into one of those niched games that doesn't have a big player base but has a small number loyal players.

Originally posted by Apraxis

Originally posted by madmax286

One second there Apraxis,

I consider myself a casual gamer and play MMO's from 5 to 8 hours per week and I do read the the MMORPG.com forums when I see an interesting discussion going on which doesn't turn into a flamefest ( this topic for example).

Now Warhammer is, for the moment at least, the most efficient game I play. What do I mean by that? I log for only 2 hours and play for 2 hours. They have minimized downtime. No more looking for groups, endless traveling  (I made this comment earlier in this topic as well). In other games I might have logged for 2 hours but my gametime would have been 30mins tops considering all the time sinks. Unfortunately today I don't have the time I had when I was a student and could devote 8-10 hours of playtime in a game. 

From a casual gamers perspective what is currently happening in WAR is very good. Granted, the community of this game should come together. The developer should help in this direction by providing elements both in game and out of it (more chat channels and official forums perhaps). But then again providing those elements might become a boomerang (devil's advocate here). Nevertheless, the fact that the basic principle of WAR is supporting casual gamers by minimizing downtime is a very strong point in my book.

At the same time I really wish the game companies would evolve the genre beyond games like WoW, War or EQ providing more sandbox games. I'm certain there is a segment of the  market out there waiting for a game like this which the consumer base would surely support.  

 

Ok, granted, you are maybe one of the very few casuals reading and posting at mmorpg.com or any forum.

And for the record.. it is not your fault, that we the old schoolers(or a lot of) are not happy with the trend of the mmorpgs genre, as much as it is not the fault for the finance oriented companies. The companies do, what is their purpose, making money.. and the make the most money with games for the majority.. and the majority nowadays are gamers like you. And it is absolutely ok, that casuals like you have games for their necessities. Well.. from time to time even i nowadays tend to be more of  casual(at least i am now 32 years old.. and time becomes rare occasionally)

But with 32 years, and 25 years of gaming i think sometimes back, as game designers were gamers and just wanted to make their dream game(and money was not so much of a interest). Where their were games, which were very demanding and challenging(like solo rpgs with over 150 hours of playtimes, anyone see something like that recently?) and really hard to play through, when even possible(like chaos strike back), were innovation and fun was the key for new developments(when i think about games like lemmings, black&white, Z and to much to name all here), then i miss those old times, and those game developers.. because there are just a few out there nowadays, and it is a lot harder for them to compete with the tremendous amount of money from the big companies(graphical packaging, advertisement and withit hype, and what not)

However.. as i said before, the time goes on, and we have to live withit, and accept those changes.

The big problem in innovation, is that it often results in a business failure, or something far from success.

A Tale in the Desert?

Saga of Ryzom?

Auto Assault?

Neocron?

Pirates of the Burning Sea?

Tabula Rasa?

Face of Mankind?

All of those have deviated, in some way or another, away from the current traditional style of MMORPG's, and each one has performed poorly. But they were all rubbish I hear you cry. Maybe they were rubbish because of their deviation?

How many of those, and others like them, have you tried? ( you the reader ). It's no wonder developers, or investors, shy away and leave us with the tried and tested model.

The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew.

And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew...

Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it.

Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish ....

The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...

The game is great but it does get more and more lonely for me. Even the guild I was in doesn't even talk. PQ is a good thing though as it does let ya get into a group and chat to kill stuff. I LOVE that aspect... I'm going to keep playing for now though because i... like many others... agree that it is a great game so I will at least play it untill something else comes out... or maybe they will merge the servers or something.

Aion, GW2, and the Lego MMO are the ones I'm most looking forward to... Sadly all of them are far away... but then there is also LotRO... I'm not sure what to do... but I do think this is a great game... the best in a long long time.

We all like different games, some people will not like WAR...and that is fine.  Post your reviews, debate it and go find a different game.  Warhammer does alot of this right, and some things couldve been done better. But I must say im surprised at how many critics decided to just materialize.

All of a sudden every gamer is a critic after two weeks after a game is released. IMHO none of you (or myself) have a right to post a review being it positive or negative. I dont care how much you played in 2 weeks or what your 10 year experiance playing older games was like.  I am a EQ Vet and I have seen many launches myself.  Not all games turn out to be the same as they were at launch.   In fact NO GAMES are the same as they were at launch.  You guys want to write a good review of a MMORPG? Then wait 6 months - 2 years go in and play the game see where the devs took it.. then post a review.  MMORPG's are the hardest type of game to review for because so many things can change.  Now I myself find WAR enjoyable...it was hard for me to adjust given my normal 5-15 hour gameplay days from the old EQ...those were the days lol.

Here is a good example to consider:

Everquest was a great game, with a great community and trading system...mainly right outside Freeport in the caves to the Oasis if im not mistaken...for all those vets that remember those days.  Anyway the traveling system and community was very close....then Shadows of Luclin (I think) released and allowed players to use books to transport themselves all over the world..this limited the travel abilities of Druids and Wizards because of the change...and graphical upgrade as well.  Many people were upset because they werent used to the new graphics...and alot of Wizards and Druids were pissed because they lost one of their major incomes...mainly teleporting people around for a few PP here and there. 

My point:

Games change...give it a chance before you ladies and gentlemen feel the nessecity to bash it to the extent you are.  And if even one of you replies to this with excuses about experiance...and wow...or any other game that your comparing it to?  I dont care. We arent in that games forum are we? Get over it.

 Normally I stay away from these threads but WAR is getting torn apart by people so some constructive crit needs to be added.

This game has not been released for long so please, give it time to open up. 

As far as chat, don't hate on it, this makes no sense. Its practically like every other chat set-up in other mmo's. People arn't using it because they are playing the game.  A trade channel could turn into a WOW spam bot so watch what you wish for.

As far as the scenario's - back off. You can pick up and play in PVP, whats wrong with that? Nothing, just people who can't handle that a game was designed to there needs. Its sad. There not ruining the game, there giving casual players a chance to play PVP w/o being severly handicapped.  No one forces you to do them either. You can skip that part and pve to your hearts content. Theres loads of quests you can do.

For partying, when you enter a zone it offers partys right off the bat, then you can select an open one. You can also search for players in the map. So to your no grouping crap, shut it. Please your ruining peoples consideration to play this game with you bs.

And for guilds I have beed in a few already on diffrent chars on diffrent servers and I seen crap ones and good ones. That happens in every mmo

I think all these people have a right to an op, but seriously you need to watch how you say it. WAR is gonna die. GO MAKE ONE YOURSELF YOU REJECT! Don't come on here bashing a company for bringing PVP to a new lvl with OPTIONS to pve as well. You do not like it fine, walk away. But don't spew your crap about it going to die or any of that crap. Say why you hate it to the Devs and see if changes can be made.

Just another thread from people who haven't found the game for them. Take your garbage with ya, cause if you are this ignorant to a new game then I sure as **** don't want you. 

P.S How many other games were perfect hits off the bat? NONE. THATS IT.

Originally posted by tkobo

The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew.

And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew...

Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it.

Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish ....

The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...

What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.

If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.

Originally posted by nikoliath

Originally posted by tkobo

The problem isnt innovation.The problem is, when the devs actually manage to embrace a good idea and not screw it up, which is like almost never,all they then do is throw that good idea into the same old crap stew.

And the thing is, the best meat in the world is not gonna be enough to get people to like chamber pot stew...

Almost the whole design for mmos needs to be scrapped, and the dinosaurs that keep using it over and over with it.

Innovation needs to be the core AND the elements, not some one or two spices thrown into a stale boring horrid dish ....

The MMO industry keeps doing its best to put its own equivilants of Kenneth Lay in charge...And they get the same results..,.over and over...

What about GENRE... if you totaly change the concept from the bottom up, you don't end up with an mmoRPG, you end up with an mmoSOMETHING.

If you don't like the RPG bit, dont play this bloody genre. Reading your posts, you qualify for the BURNED OUT badge, now shoo or please do share with us your ideas for the all new mmo format, seeing as you ridicule the developers.

 

Thats is just so wrong.

Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game is the term.  Read those words.

It does not in anyway specify how it needs to realised.  You could throw out every concept ever used in any existing or previous mmorpgs and still make something new thats within the genre. 

The problem is devs don't do this often enough.

Originally posted by Urrelles

Two problems with WAR right now.

1.  Scenerios play too much of a role in leveling up.  PvE content should have its exp rewards boosted and scenerios should be reduced.

2.  The chat system needs a general channel.  There needs to be rally masters in the capital cities so that people have access to the biggest gathering spot in the game.  Plus the capitals need a general chat channel too. 

 

Yeah, pretty much the main reason I run so many scenarios right now, as it is the easiest way to level up.

Also - they need to fix the "alliance" bug, where you can only be in an alliance with 1 other guild right now.   It is supposed to be up to 10 guilds in an alliance.    For those of us that play Order, we really need the ability to have a large network of people if we want any chance at holding a zone for an extended period.   My guild looked around the server, found a couple guilds we'd like to join with......took the time to make sure to talk and see if it would be a good fit (with plans to expand further).....and then found out the darn thing was bugged (they were already in an alliance together and we couldn't get in).

That means we can't share calendar events, can't have a shared alliance channel with them......with many of us busy having fun in game and focusing on leveling, it kind of makes it harder to communicate.....which is not good.    And also leaves me feeling like a bit of a third wheel, when we can't "officially" be a part of anything.   We are a small-medium sized guild (15-20+ active players on a night on average), and all along we'd planned on joining up with a number of other guilds.   Until that can happen I feel like that leaves things at a standstill.   I really hope they are making that fix a priority.   If they do I think that will help Order side marshal our forces tremendously and better able to plan together.

Originally posted by nikoliath

Why the hell do I need or even want to know what someone, else where in the game world with whom I have no connection or intrest, was doing in real life? 

Maybe your guild chat reflects the total toss you get in WoW Barrens chat? /shrug. I chat to guildies on guild chat, party members in party chat and warband members in warband chat. I have had no compulsion or need to reach out to the server and share my chuck norris jokes with them.

maybe you ought to stick to chat rooms for cybering.

I wasn't really thinking of WoW when I said general chat, more along the lines of AoC, where there is a common channel to the whole server.  Its used for finding groups, guilds, selling shit, and helping people.  I dont see much of the type of chat you are talking about. 

I'm in a server where I often have to queue to get in, but either the server cap is way too low or everyone is just too spread out to be able to get CONSISTANT groups.  Why is it a rarity that I find people to do PQs with?  I play at regular hours (with the queues like I said).

What I can't understand is why you play mmos if you have no interest in a large community.  Maybe you got made fun of in Barrens chat and now you stick to your small groups of people.  But I play massive multiplayer online rpgs to join the large numbers of people. 

General chat in an mmo is an essential component, its bland otherwise.

Originally posted by nikoliath

I too am writing this in vain, I know that. I don't care if you like or dislike the game, it's the pointless finger pointing at inane subjective "faults" that irk me enough to reply to the posts.

Maybe a new discussion forum is in order. A place for Ex fans to hang out and complain till their hearts sing. It's been 11 years since UO launched. I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.

You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.

Normally I'd applaud action against the ex-EQ1 or ex-SWG folks that come out to shoot down new games because they can't live up to the nostolgia of their first mmo.  But here you are speaking out against people with a reasonable concern - AN MMO WHERE NO ONE TALKS

Its an insane concept.  I don't think the best game designers in the world could have done it if they tried.  I first thought it was a problem local to my server, but many posts have voiced the same problem.   Guild chat and party chat is fine, but its like living in a small town but not being able to communicate with anyone outsde of it.

I had to read more of this thread because there were alot of well written responses (yours included) but I am hoping that what rises to the surface is that there is a legitimate and significant problem with this game (more than one im sure).   Its as if Mythic built a great pub that has tons of people in it, but you can only talk to one person at a time and you have to whisper.