After all the talk of a WOW killer nothing even came close. Infact there is still no game that could be called WOW competition. I would love to see another great choice with a big community like WOW but looks like the only release that will be close to WOW in sales and quality is gonna be WOTLK. Is there any game on the horizon that looks like it has a chance to be a real success? Will there ever be another MMO that is as good as WOW ? I hope so, very tired of wasting money on these games that promise to be great and are completely broken.

I couldn't agree more. This is a dark time for MMOs, possibly the darkest in the genre's short history. WoW is a decent game, but still lacking in several key places, and it's obvious that Blizzard has no idea how to fix it. Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic developers, and the game certainly couldn't have come as far as it has in anyone else's hands.

I will likely play the expansion, but I refuse to participate in Arena and I won't hold my breath for raiding. If it's the same as it's always been (and it's looking that way now) then I will probably be finished with it after a month, if that.

Your talking about subs right? If so I agree Nothing will ever outsell WoWs 4.5 million NA/Euro numbers.

What pisses me off about WoW asian numbers are that the players over there dont actually pay for a WoW game box and they pay a few cents to actually play the game in a cyber caffee. So i totally discount the 6 million + asian number just like I discount any F2p asian sub number along with L2.

Now if your talking No competition for wow game Quality wise I think you are dead wrong.

Hell games older then WoW are actually better wow is just really, really casual friendly.

The Players that play WoW just don't know any better its safe to say around 60% of those players don't even goto forums or read about other MMO's to know whats out there.

Shit I asked my old guild if they tried WAR most of them didn't know what it was haha.

WOW has the smoothest and most polished game mechanics I have ever seen.  Whenever a new game comes out, no matter if the world seems more compelling than WOW's, clunky interface and sluggish movement and combat are an instant turnoff.

And hence, folks go back to WOW.  Whatever folks may say of WOW, it works smoothly.

It's the things that WoW has destroyed about MMORPGs.

Everquest: Though it may be an old game, the first time you picked it up, and started to emerse yourself into their world, you felt insignificant to the world around you, you felt humbled by a world bigger than yourself, and the vast need to explore this world, entranced you to play. This world, had conciquences, a vibrant community that was forced to interact with eachother, there were no trade stables in the beginning, you had to actually talk, and sell, and swindle your way into a profit.. The people were genuine, and unique.

World of Warcraft: The game that killed EverQuest. Intangled people with a diffrent style of play, You could actually enjoy this game, without ever typing to a single person, you could spend hours, doing nothing, communicating with no one, and reach near end-game content, and have decent gear to show for it, it developed the "Single Play Massive Muiltiplayer RPG", You no longer had the sence the world was bigger than you, You could easily defeat a creature a couple levels above you. There is no death penality, just a brisk run back to your corpse, but inorder to advance to the depths of the game, you needed friends, a guild, to sloughter Illidan Stormrage, and other end-game bosses, I suppose that's where the MMO part comes in.

But the times have changed, the people that use to enjoy the escape of a MMORPG, feel helpless.. because they cannot find a world that totally destroys their reality for a brisk moment. Now a days, it's no longer about the adventure, the conquest, the escape. It's about bloasting your name from the roof tops of Org, flexing your E-peen.

The MMORPG genere wont be revitilized untill a game comes along, that captures that sense of adventure within all of us, that great escape that takes all thoughts of reality away for a few precious moments.

And this is not bashing on WoW. I currently play the game, just wish there was a game with more heart out there.

As proof. My armory link.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eredar&n=Twacky

Originally posted by Twacky

It's the things that WoW has destroyed about MMORPGs.

Everquest: Though it may be an old game, the first time you picked it up, and started to emerse yourself into their world, you felt insignificant to the world around you, you felt humbled by a world bigger than yourself, and the vast need to explore this world, entranced you to play. This world, had conciquences, a vibrant community that was forced to interact with eachother, there were no trade stables in the beginning, you had to actually talk, and sell, and swindle your way into a profit.. The people were genuine, and unique.

World of Warcraft: The game that killed EverQuest. Intangled people with a diffrent style of play, You could actually enjoy this game, without ever typing to a single person, you could spend hours, doing nothing, communicating with no one, and reach near end-game content, and have decent gear to show for it, it developed the "Single Play Massive Muiltiplayer RPG", You no longer had the sence the world was bigger than you, You could easily defeat a creature a couple levels above you. There is no death penality, just a brisk run back to your corpse, but inorder to advance to the depths of the game, you needed friends, a guild, to sloughter Illidan Stormrage, and other end-game bosses, I suppose that's where the MMO part comes in.

But the times have changed, the people that use to enjoy the escape of a MMORPG, feel helpless.. because they cannot find a world that totally destroys their reality for a brisk moment. Now a days, it's no longer about the adventure, the conquest, the escape. It's about bloasting your name from the roof tops of Org, flexing your E-peen.

The MMORPG genere wont be revitilized untill a game comes along, that captures that sense of adventure within all of us, that great escape that takes all thoughts of reality away for a few precious moments.

And this is not bashing on WoW. I currently play the game, just wish there was a game with more heart out there.

As proof. My armory link.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eredar&n=Twacky

 

I couldn't agree more... EverQuest was my first MMORPG... played for more than 7 years. Nothing compares. And yes, back then when it started, we had to talk and work hard to accomplish something, wich I miss greatly.

Only game I'd say compare quality wise today is FFXI.. but EQ is THE king...

I'm playing WoW too atm, it's fun.. but I can't see myself playing that game for more than 7 years like I did with EverQuest.

Just my thoughts...

Originally posted by Twacky

It's the things that WoW has destroyed about MMORPGs.

Everquest: Though it may be an old game, the first time you picked it up, and started to emerse yourself into their world, you felt insignificant to the world around you, you felt humbled by a world bigger than yourself, and the vast need to explore this world, entranced you to play. This world, had conciquences, a vibrant community that was forced to interact with eachother, there were no trade stables in the beginning, you had to actually talk, and sell, and swindle your way into a profit.. The people were genuine, and unique.

World of Warcraft: The game that killed EverQuest. Intangled people with a diffrent style of play, You could actually enjoy this game, without ever typing to a single person, you could spend hours, doing nothing, communicating with no one, and reach near end-game content, and have decent gear to show for it, it developed the "Single Play Massive Muiltiplayer RPG", You no longer had the sence the world was bigger than you, You could easily defeat a creature a couple levels above you. There is no death penality, just a brisk run back to your corpse, but inorder to advance to the depths of the game, you needed friends, a guild, to sloughter Illidan Stormrage, and other end-game bosses, I suppose that's where the MMO part comes in.

But the times have changed, the people that use to enjoy the escape of a MMORPG, feel helpless.. because they cannot find a world that totally destroys their reality for a brisk moment. Now a days, it's no longer about the adventure, the conquest, the escape. It's about bloasting your name from the roof tops of Org, flexing your E-peen.

The MMORPG genere wont be revitilized untill a game comes along, that captures that sense of adventure within all of us, that great escape that takes all thoughts of reality away for a few precious moments.

And this is not bashing on WoW. I currently play the game, just wish there was a game with more heart out there.

As proof. My armory link.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eredar&n=Twacky

 

  I understand what you saying, but i can not foresee what you describe. You don't like the fact that you can get far in wow by yourself yet you seem to complain that there is a diverse community that yes has ego driven people. The thing is almost everyone is ego epeen wavers, no one is truly selfless nor are they playing the game without the hope of some kinda of accomplishment. Accomplishment is what drives people and i guess you could say well you don't have to flaunt said accomplishments in people's faces but then what is the point of being in a community if others can not share in your joy.

Honestly, its not the epeen flaunters that are the problem its the ones who get jealous and hate the epeeners for being (in their view,) better than them.

As for a sense of wonder or grandness, no mmo i have played has truly captured that (ok maybe potain with the music on in AoC).

And finally heart, well for me i find that this game has a lot of heart (at least in comparasion to others.) So many MMOs I find are bland and uncaring. Meanwhile, wow hits me with a cartoon silly stick that truly keeps me going (love the lore and the cheesy humor). i like a game that can laugh at it self and not be so serious all the time. Go to Arcatraz some time and fight the last boss and tell me this game doesn't have heart ( the voices for the boss and that silly gnome put a smile on my face everytime.)

10 Million fans of mediocre gameplay cant be wrong

Dont misunderstand. I do enjoy World of Warcraft, it just has not captured my heart, the people, my guildies are what drive me to continue playing.

But, in Everquest, I felt humbled by the world around me.  The fact, that  if I died, there would be conciquence, not just a repair bill. The Everquest community, wasnt full of kids with pride to show off their items.. It was involved in a sence of dignity, that none of the MMORPGS have yet to capture.

Alot of the idels, I still long for in a MMORPG. Dont get me wrong, I do enjoy logging onto WoW, going to the Isle, and raping some kids face, wondering if he's screeming at his computer "OMG, Glaives" Trust me, I do enjoy that aspect. I just miss the adventure, the story, I miss feeling smaller than the world around me, and getting lost in Greater Feydar... and finding the nearest wall, and hugging it untill I found my way back home. lawl.

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Not for me.  Blizzard can give out free hand-jobs and I'm not going back to their money hungry ways.  They will sell out whatever aspect of their game they can to retain a customer base.  They will do w/e it takes to make sure they get your money.  That doesn't sit well with me.  There's too many other neat games out there to waste your time on the McDonalds of MMOs.  When I get done playing WoW I feel dirty, like I just ate a BigMac off the floor.

Originally posted by Black_Elvis

Not for me.  Blizzard can give out free hand-jobs and I'm not going back to their money hungry ways.  They will sell out whatever aspect of their game they can to retain a customer base.  They will do w/e it takes to make sure they get your money.  That doesn't sit well with me.  There's too many other neat games out there to waste your time on the McDonalds of MMOs.  When I get done playing WoW I feel dirty, like I just ate a BigMac off the floor.

You just don't know what you miss.

Every other published MMORPG these last 3 years were a MESS compared to Wow 2008. I hope they can keep the high standards in WOtLK and are NOT sick like all those other "Wow-killers".

Rushed products which lack in every way. From design to animated fights, to extremely developped boss figths to very satisfying gameplay and open seamless worlds you live in and fly over....

Go ahead and search for better things in that desert landscape of "Wow-killers".

BTW: Mercedes is the best selling car in Germany (they do have money), does that make it a "MacDonalds" car ?

Comparing the food industry to hi tech MMORPG's is lack of intelligence. A certain FunCom director made also this pathetic statement. He was fired a month ago....

"WoW is a decent game, but still lacking in several key places, and it's obvious that Blizzard has no idea how to fix it."

What key places?

Originally posted by Slampig

"WoW is a decent game, but still lacking in several key places, and it's obvious that Blizzard has no idea how to fix it."

 

What key places?

It's the same statement like "there are many MMOs out there that are better", many people here can agree that WoW isn't THE MMO, but at least they have the decency not to list an other MMO that is.

Originally posted by Deadm0ney4u

  After all the talk of a WOW killer nothing even came close. Infact there is still no game that could be called WOW competition. I would love to see another great choice with a big community like WOW but looks like the only release that will be close to WOW in sales and quality is gonna be WOTLK. Is there any game on the horizon that looks like it has a chance to be a real success? Will there ever be another MMO that is as good as WOW ? I hope so, very tired of wasting money on these games that promise to be great and are completely broken.

Do you think real success is what every mmorpg should have?. This idea is what is damaging the mmorpg genre. every developer wants this unmatched success, they try to be better than WoW instead of be the best with their own desing or they try to copy the "stuff that works". Every should remove the "real success" idea from their minds. The mmorpg genre is usually a "100k - 500k customers" genre. Trying to get more is just having problems when you release and your founders ask for revenue and numbers. No game can beat WoW sales wide.

Originally posted by Deadm0ney4u

  After all the talk of a WOW killer nothing even came close. Infact there is still no game that could be called WOW competition. I would love to see another great choice with a big community like WOW but looks like the only release that will be close to WOW in sales and quality is gonna be WOTLK. Is there any game on the horizon that looks like it has a chance to be a real success? Will there ever be another MMO that is as good as WOW ? I hope so, very tired of wasting money on these games that promise to be great and are completely broken.

Well, only game that have something to back up that's comming next year is Guildwars 2. The reason that that I believe it will succed better than current game is the following:

1. The first GW sold 5.5 millions (In april), that is at least almost in the same league as Wow, only game that is.

2. The developer team is one of the best there is, they did work on Wow in the first 2 years of development and before that they made Warcraft 3. They have also worked on Starcraft and diablo together with others. GW is the least buggy game I ever played of any kind.

3. No monthly fees. Why monthly fees aren't that terrible it still tend to add up. One of the reason Strain and CO quited Blizz was that they wanted Wow to be free of fees too, the only reason Battle.net was free was because of them.

4. The first GW was instanced everywhere, GW 2 will be an open world with some kind of new technique to load the zones, Jeff Strain did the programming on Wow for zooning and he says this is a lot better.

5. Really good graphix and the first GW had a very good story and nice quests, I dont beleive the second one is worse. Also the art is very good, if not as good as wow then very close.

6. GW  still have the fairest PvP system and it is really good, GW2 will have realm v realm and RvR also, PvP will at least get very intresting. And for those who wonders, they will have something similar to PQs but the outcome will affect the whole server in different ways. This was advertised before WAR went out with theirs.

That's why my money is on GW2, it is very possible that another game might be the big one too, there is Spellborn, Aion, Darkfall, World of darkness online and KOTOR online coming up. And Blizz have admitted to PC gamer that they have a new MMO in development themselves.

Originally posted by bodypass

BTW: Mercedes is the best selling car in Germany (they do have money), does that make it a "MacDonalds" car ?

Actually, Wolkswagen sells more than mercedes and the beetle is the most selling car ever (funny enough since its first drawing was made by Hitler, really). So by that logic Wow is the beetle of games not the mercedes ;)

No other point here... And no, I don't think Blizz are like Hitler.

 Will you be able to jump in GW2, I can't PVP if I can't jump?    

Why are people so obsessed with numbers and biggest being best?  Is this an American thing?

The quality of the game is what counts. Who cares if 100m people are playing my favourite game if the server only holds 5000 at a time.

There has already been a wow killer  it whas named the burning crusade..

that expantion killed wow. after trying wotlk beta, i will never play wow ever again, because now they killed the paladin class aswell "again".

WOW quality days: Rank14 reckbomb paladin in 2 days long av.

To the folks bemoaning how older games are better, well they're still alive (in most cases); go and enjoy them.  One of my colleaques still plays EQ1 and many more play games like Eve for that 'escapist' feel.

WoW certainly has it's issues, but for overall quality it's still one of the best imo.  I've tried numerous titles during the previous four years, and have always come to the decision of 'why am I playing a lesser version of WOW?'.  For a brief moment I thought Vangaurd was going to offer something unique, but then Brad boarded the Failboat of 'potential' and set sail with a completely borked game.