Well, two of the initial selling points are now out the window.

In the new patch

Gear will give roughly twice the stats as it did before.  Meaning gear will have a much bigger influence on who wins.

Combos are being dumbed-down.  Most combos are going down to 1 button, some 2.

While everyone complained in WOW about 'everything' being dictated by who has the better gear (which isn't necessarily true).. the other side of the coin was in AOC.. your gear meant absolutely nothing, which took away a main area of player progression and made it hard to add 'rewards' for doing certain things.

Combat was supposed to be 'complex'.  The problem was that it was also unwieldy.  AOC combat will now be more in line with WOW where I      Sinister Strike, Slice n Dice, Sinister Srike, Eviscerate.

While I think its better than the current combat and gear system, it did not have to be buffed or nerfed. It could be improved in a better way. Why do every MMO have to look the same? Most MMO are just trying to be another World of Warcraft look alike. WoW is far from perfect, and still the best MMO companies can do is try to copy WoW.

Wheres the passion, the fire, the creativity and flow in 2008? Are MMO companies just going to do as the movies companies do these days, copying hollywood movies success? Hope not..

Originally posted by Azrile

Well, two of the initial selling points are now out the window.

In the new patch

Gear will give roughly twice the stats as it did before.  Meaning gear will have a much bigger influence on who wins.

Combos are being dumbed-down.  Most combos are going down to 1 button, some 2.

While everyone complained in WOW about 'everything' being dictated by who has the better gear (which isn't necessarily true).. the other side of the coin was in AOC.. your gear meant absolutely nothing, which took away a main area of player progression and made it hard to add 'rewards' for doing certain things.

Combat was supposed to be 'complex'.  The problem was that it was also unwieldy.  AOC combat will now be more in line with WOW where I      Sinister Strike, Slice n Dice, Sinister Srike, Eviscerate.

Now this does sound good!! one of my biggest issues after content and being broken was I hated the combos at higher lvls.  I loved the directional things but hitting 4 -5 button combos esp when they were kinda laggy and it was easy for them to miss a key, well it was just frustrating.  Combat being fast one missed combo and it was game over.

where did you read that combos were being dumbed down. i dont see that in the notes. Are you adding stuff?

People were already using G15 and whatnot of keyboards to make difficult combos into easymode macro, as if there never were anything like it.

So in my book that's not a bad move at all, even though i didn't have such a keyboard and luckily enough had a very goody mouse with lots of buttons to make the combos NP (when you get the extra set of attack directions) but the fact having to make 4 "normal attacks" before it triggered the real attack, was always a little silly imo.

Gear having more stats, GREAT, now it actually matters whether you are naked or not.

Originally posted by jadan2000

where did you read that combos were being dumbed down. i dont see that in the notes. Are you adding stuff?

Haha the combos can hardly go down any further. Just more and more influence from WoW kiddies on the market. The game when it hit closed beta had 8 directional attacks, but the l33t WoW kiddie raider guilds couldn't handle game mechanics that actually had you think about something, so they nerfed it to 3. 

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Originally posted by Azrile

Well, two of the initial selling points are now out the window.
In the new patch
Gear will give roughly twice the stats as it did before.  Meaning gear will have a much bigger influence on who wins.
Combos are being dumbed-down.  Most combos are going down to 1 button, some 2.
While everyone complained in WOW about 'everything' being dictated by who has the better gear (which isn't necessarily true).. the other side of the coin was in AOC.. your gear meant absolutely nothing, which took away a main area of player progression and made it hard to add 'rewards' for doing certain things.
Combat was supposed to be 'complex'.  The problem was that it was also unwieldy.  AOC combat will now be more in line with WOW where I      Sinister Strike, Slice n Dice, Sinister Srike, Eviscerate.

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We do understand that concern, and we aren't talking about making the game quite as item centric as some others on the market, but we do feel that it requires attention as progression is key for many people in an MMO setting, and the current system just doesn't support the progression of stats sufficiently to provide any substantial motivation for acquiring rewards. We will be aiming for it to be more meaningful for sure, but not a 'you can't do normal game-play without item X' type of scenario. Items should matter more than they currently do, and that is what we are working towards.

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The world is not black and white.
 

Originally posted by Azrile

Well, two of the initial selling points are now out the window.

In the new patch

Gear will give roughly twice the stats as it did before.  Meaning gear will have a much bigger influence on who wins.

Combos are being dumbed-down.  Most combos are going down to 1 button, some 2.

While everyone complained in WOW about 'everything' being dictated by who has the better gear (which isn't necessarily true).. the other side of the coin was in AOC.. your gear meant absolutely nothing, which took away a main area of player progression and made it hard to add 'rewards' for doing certain things.

Combat was supposed to be 'complex'.  The problem was that it was also unwieldy.  AOC combat will now be more in line with WOW where I      Sinister Strike, Slice n Dice, Sinister Srike, Eviscerate.

Some of the early Conan gear had +0.1 and +0.2 gear which made no difference. Even later the plus stats were too low. It is tough to walk a fine line from having PvP combat being about skill vs gear. I dont think these changes will make Conan comparable to the carrot on a stick / Pavlov experiment that is WoW.

Page one, first sentence of the MMO Developers Handbook reads:

"If at first your game does not succeed, change your lead producer and make the game more like WoW"

VG did exactly the same thing with PhaThom and his WoWifying ideas

Originally posted by Azrile

Well, two of the initial selling points are now out the window.

In the new patch

Gear will give roughly twice the stats as it did before.  Meaning gear will have a much bigger influence on who wins.

Combos are being dumbed-down.  Most combos are going down to 1 button, some 2.

While everyone complained in WOW about 'everything' being dictated by who has the better gear (which isn't necessarily true).. the other side of the coin was in AOC.. your gear meant absolutely nothing, which took away a main area of player progression and made it hard to add 'rewards' for doing certain things.

Combat was supposed to be 'complex'.  The problem was that it was also unwieldy.  AOC combat will now be more in line with WOW where I      Sinister Strike, Slice n Dice, Sinister Srike, Eviscerate.

Im not entirely sure that most people that purchased this game did so with the thought that would gear would suck, or as you put it, the game would be non-gear depndant.  I think most people saw ADULT - MATURE and thought hey heres a game I can say whatever I want to in and not have to worry about being banned for it.  
 

At least this was a big seller for me.  I also got the impression that the world was HUGE and its not. The instanced areas with invisible walls destroy any feeling of immersion I ever would have felt.

Now this is something I don't like, changing the combat is the first step in a very bad direction. The gear stat changes I can live with, however I can see this going out of control. If they aren't happy with their combat now they're not going to ever be, which means they may hit us with a CU or NGE.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

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Originally posted by Azrile

 

Well, two of the initial selling points are now out the window.
In the new patch
Gear will give roughly twice the stats as it did before.  Meaning gear will have a much bigger influence on who wins.
Combos are being dumbed-down.  Most combos are going down to 1 button, some 2.
While everyone complained in WOW about 'everything' being dictated by who has the better gear (which isn't necessarily true).. the other side of the coin was in AOC.. your gear meant absolutely nothing, which took away a main area of player progression and made it hard to add 'rewards' for doing certain things.
Combat was supposed to be 'complex'.  The problem was that it was also unwieldy.  AOC combat will now be more in line with WOW where I      Sinister Strike, Slice n Dice, Sinister Srike, Eviscerate.

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Good lord, two weeks ago you were bitching becouse it wasnt "Dumbed down" as you say. Pick one, and stick with it.
As for your Binary view on what the changes to stats mean, this seems to be directed at your type.

 

 

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We do understand that concern, and we aren't talking about making the game quite as item centric as some others on the market, but we do feel that it requires attention as progression is key for many people in an MMO setting, and the current system just doesn't support the progression of stats sufficiently to provide any substantial motivation for acquiring rewards. We will be aiming for it to be more meaningful for sure, but not a 'you can't do normal game-play without item X' type of scenario. Items should matter more than they currently do, and that is what we are working towards.

---

 

The world is not black and white.
 

I love that it took them almost 6 years to figure out that all gamers, or a large majority need PHAT LEWTS to motivate them.  I mean wow doesnt 11 million subscribers for nothin!

Originally posted by Malickie

Now this is something I don't like, changing the combat is the first step in a very bad direction. The gear stat changes I can live with, however I can see this going out of control. If they aren't happy with their combat now they're not going to ever be, which means they may hit us with a CU or NGE.

They hit us with both CU and NGE, at release! And just like SWG after these patches, everyone quickly left.

Originally posted by orzo

Originally posted by Malickie

Now this is something I don't like, changing the combat is the first step in a very bad direction. The gear stat changes I can live with, however I can see this going out of control. If they aren't happy with their combat now they're not going to ever be, which means they may hit us with a CU or NGE.

 

They hit us with both CU and NGE, at release! And just like SWG after these patches, everyone quickly left.

Please explain? Sorry didn't follow the game before launch, I just bought it on a whim a few weeks later.

Originally posted by orzo

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

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Originally posted by Azrile

 

Well, two of the initial selling points are now out the window.
In the new patch
Gear will give roughly twice the stats as it did before.  Meaning gear will have a much bigger influence on who wins.
Combos are being dumbed-down.  Most combos are going down to 1 button, some 2.
While everyone complained in WOW about 'everything' being dictated by who has the better gear (which isn't necessarily true).. the other side of the coin was in AOC.. your gear meant absolutely nothing, which took away a main area of player progression and made it hard to add 'rewards' for doing certain things.
Combat was supposed to be 'complex'.  The problem was that it was also unwieldy.  AOC combat will now be more in line with WOW where I      Sinister Strike, Slice n Dice, Sinister Srike, Eviscerate.

---

 

Good lord, two weeks ago you were bitching becouse it wasnt "Dumbed down" as you say. Pick one, and stick with it.
As for your Binary view on what the changes to stats mean, this seems to be directed at your type.

 

 

---

We do understand that concern, and we aren't talking about making the game quite as item centric as some others on the market, but we do feel that it requires attention as progression is key for many people in an MMO setting, and the current system just doesn't support the progression of stats sufficiently to provide any substantial motivation for acquiring rewards. We will be aiming for it to be more meaningful for sure, but not a 'you can't do normal game-play without item X' type of scenario. Items should matter more than they currently do, and that is what we are working towards.

---

 

The world is not black and white.
 

 

I love that it took them almost 6 years to figure out that all gamers, or a large majority need PHAT LEWTS to motivate them.  I mean wow doesnt 11 million subscribers for nothin!

That’s simply not true, and once again,a very black and white statement.

None of these changes are black and white, but neither are they in WOW.

In WOW, every class has abilities that open up based on other things the player does, or what his enemy does.  Rogues are the easiest example where they basically use 'combo points' for most of their abilities.  But everyone has those abiliies..  overpower, execute for warriors,  judgements for Paladins, stormstrike for Shamen.  Basically players set up the opponent with certain abilities that then make a later ability more powerful.  The newer abilities add even more prerequisites.. druid healing is very dependant on doing things in the right order.  Swiftmend needs a rejuvinate, Nourish requires a hot.

All of those things really sound like a 1button combo to me.

And as soon as this change goes through, AOC players will reach the same gear-dependency as WOW, where 50% of your stats come from your gear.

Originally posted by Azrile

None of these changes are black and white, but neither are they in WOW.

In WOW, every class has abilities that open up based on other things the player does, or what his enemy does.  Rogues are the easiest example where they basically use 'combo points' for most of their abilities.  But everyone has those abiliies..  overpower, execute for warriors,  judgements for Paladins, stormstrike for Shamen.  Basically players set up the opponent with certain abilities that then make a later ability more powerful.  The newer abilities add even more prerequisites.. druid healing is very dependant on doing things in the right order.  Swiftmend needs a rejuvinate, Nourish requires a hot.

All of those things really sound like a 1button combo to me.

And as soon as this change goes through, AOC players will reach the same gear-dependency as WOW, where 50% of your stats come from your gear.

He allready posted a responce to exacitly what you are saying, and the % wasnt 50. Ill try to find it for you.

It is 50% but, he did say in a post that they are not going to the complete end of the chart and have gear be as "End all be all" as other games on the market, more of a middle ground. Time will tell.

I just find it funny that they make gear not be important and people complain that the stats from gear don't do anything so they go to a middle ground and now people are complaining that they are turning into wow.

I think the change will be good as long as they don't go too far with it.  Its nice to have a balance between gear and skill.

Originally posted by arimer

I just find it funny that they make gear not be important and people complain that the stats from gear don't do anything so they go to a middle ground and now people are complaining that they are turning into wow.

I think the change will be good as long as they don't go too far with it.  Its nice to have a balance between gear and skill.

So true!
 

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by orzo

Originally posted by Malickie

Now this is something I don't like, changing the combat is the first step in a very bad direction. The gear stat changes I can live with, however I can see this going out of control. If they aren't happy with their combat now they're not going to ever be, which means they may hit us with a CU or NGE.

 

They hit us with both CU and NGE, at release! And just like SWG after these patches, everyone quickly left.

Please explain? Sorry didn't follow the game before launch, I just bought it on a whim a few weeks later.

Beta in AoC was like PRE NGE SWG.  Release was like UHM what?