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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Hickman - Addressing the Cut Classes

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94 posts found
  Rohn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3738

9/30/08 5:00:13 PM#41
Originally posted by iceberg2ice

funny how they are discussing about extra content when the game is so full of bugs and imperfections... and the warhammeralliance forum does not even allow posting about them... they should be looking at fixing the rushed unfinished buggy release first before even thinking about adding more content...


 

You must be reading very selectively, or you didn't read the entire article, because fixing bugs was mentioned specifically as the first priority they are addressing before getting to the other things.

Try harder next time.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  Marontann

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/05
Posts: 17

9/30/08 5:07:15 PM#42

oh and dont say "oh but hes a warrior priest its not in character to have a shield", BS i say its my character and my decision. And the original warhammer game allowed for alot of different equipments based on how many points you were prepared to spend.

Also costumization and making your army and your characters "yours" is at the very heart of Games Workshop. So please allow us some freedom.

Other than that , great game

PS im refering to my earlier post, sorry if im a bit confusing

  dreamer05

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/05
Posts: 541

9/30/08 5:39:17 PM#43
Originally posted by Ravanos
Originally posted by iceberg2ice

funny how they are discussing about extra content when the game is so full of bugs and imperfections... and the warhammeralliance forum does not even allow posting about them... they should be looking at fixing the rushed unfinished buggy release first before even thinking about adding more content...


 

eh maybe im just lucky but the only bug i have seen is the "incorrect password" bug i got the other night. other than that my game has been running pretty darn good ... sure theres a crash here and there ... but um what game doesn't.

heck eq2 crashes on me every once in a while, and my friends WoW game crashed just the other night.

is the game perfect? eh of course not but "rushed, unfinished buggy release"? just smells of a WoWboi stink.


 

Took the words right out of my head.

"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."

  Jalford

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/06
Posts: 17

9/30/08 6:39:36 PM#44

I was in beta from august of 07-release.  The choppa was by far the worst class in the game.  They had to build up a rage mechanic, so they could become berserk.  The problem was, that all the abilities u used that were not linked to the berserk mechanic SUCKED.  U were like half a class.  Half the time u rocked, the other half, u were worthless.  So i understand why they cut him.

The hammerer on the other hand was a whirlwind of destruction.  But the mechanic of staying in combat longer, just didnt really do anything. 

I was on one of my many breaks from beta when dark elves first got put out there, so i never played the dark elf tank.

The KotBS was not a bad class, they just had HORID DPS compared to other tanks.  They were similar to chosen as they had auras, but they were buffs, not debuffs.  Granted at the time, the chosen auras were just debuffs.  Had they upped their DPS a bit, they would of been fine.

Now all this i understand.  What i dont understand is what was so hard to fix about them.  There were MANY great suggestions on how to fix the berserker.  All they had to do was drop the lame berserk buff mechanic and he would of been fine.  Had they hade a rage mechanic that was like shaman wahh, where they just did more damage the more berserk they were, it would of been great.  Hell almost all the classes were reinvinted at least twice, what was so hard there.

Even with all this i will say this, WAR is a great game.  I dont know what all the buggs people are seeing, cause the only ones i ever notice are some random terain issues, and there arent many of them, and the ocational graphical bluring of armors.  Thats it.  Hell i have only had the game crash once since launch.  The servers have not been down, and order prob wins 50% of the scenarios we run.  I do notice destruction has the keeps a bit more often, but they still flipflop.  Hell the top 10 PVPers on our realm is like 7 out of 10 order.

Plus, this game sucked in beta.  It sucked right up to release to be honest with you.  It sucked because i thought they werent listening to us.  What it was, was they were only letting us see what needed to be tested, all along they were listening, just we didnt get tot see the fixes till right before launch on alot of it.

PQs even as soon as chp4 used to take HOURS to max inf.  Stats didnt do shit.  Most classes couldnt fight more than 1 mob, and pvp was a 1shot fest.  none of that is true now.  Mythic proved to me that at least most of the time they listen to the players, so there is obviously a reason we arent seeing these other classes, cause they had plenty of time to work on most of them.  Give it allittle time.  they arent making the mistakes that AoC made(constant nerfing and buffing and nerfing and buffing due to whining, which lead to your class not even playing the same 1 month after launch), i think everything will be great in no time.

  Jalford

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/06
Posts: 17

9/30/08 6:44:10 PM#45
Originally posted by Marontann

oh and dont say "oh but hes a warrior priest its not in character to have a shield", BS i say its my character and my decision. And the original warhammer game allowed for alot of different equipments based on how many points you were prepared to spend.

Also costumization and making your army and your characters "yours" is at the very heart of Games Workshop. So please allow us some freedom.

Other than that , great game

PS im refering to my earlier post, sorry if im a bit confusing

With the INSANE block percent players with shields got,(18-20% at lvl 11 on my chosen for gods sake) the only way warrior priests could use a shield is if they had a tactic that lowered healing on yourself by like 30%.  It would be rediculous for them to get shields.  Warrior priests were the most OPed class up till about the last 1/8th of the beta process. 

LOL i remember when they gave us our lvl 40 templates and i speced mine into shield of sigmar, i was unstoppable.  I would be number 1 in kills and damage and healing in some scenarios cause i never died.

So even though it would be cool, that is why they dont have sheilds.

  iceberg2ice

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/06
Posts: 13

9/30/08 6:59:17 PM#46

To all those that responded to my post and said there are not many bugs and imperfections in warhammer, here is a list, titled "requests" so that they dont hurth their feelings (I hope it's not agains mmorpg rules to link to another forum, if it is please a moderator delete it). The list is not complete cause with so many bugs and requests you can see in the same forum I bet the guy has a tough time to keep up - and probably he is not even getting paid for it...

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105263

Can't find the other post in warhammeralliance forum where the thread was locked and the guy was told by the admin to not post a bugs list because it is against their policy or something like that. Probably they deleted it already. I mean people try to help the company by compiling bug lists for free, and they don't even allow them to post, go figure...

Don't get me wrong, the game has many good things in it and I like it and probably will be playing it after my month is over, but only because there is nothing better out there. If I want be honest and as a customer, it is an unfinished product and was rushed out of the door probably for marketing reasons (wow expansion coming soon). I have submitted personally about 5 bug and request reports a day in the first week, and then I got tired. I just hope they start fixing soon before servers get empty and we have another DAoC case...

  Ironman2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/06
Posts: 310

9/30/08 7:07:21 PM#47

Ok first off, please don't hate me for my "Xfire WoW Tag" lol.  Now i'm not bashing anything, but asking a legitimate question. 

Shouldn't they have just pushed release back some to finish up whats missing?  I mean from what i'm reading it just seems like how sony (and i know this isn't a sony game, i'm just comparing to how sony operates) seems to run with their mmo's (but no where near as HORRIBLE lol).  You know, they release a game or expansion pack before the "Promised" content was ready to go instead of airing on the side of caution and pushing back release dates.

Thoughts?  Opinions?

Thanks :)

PS: I have since decided to wait on MMO's to launch and be out for some time before I purchase them after being burned so badly with some of the "Junk" thats been pushed out lately (and no i'm not saying War is that at all)

  jackbelt20

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/05
Posts: 17

9/30/08 7:37:20 PM#48

I'm playing Warhammer right now and if you want to see the most annoying bugs roll a pet class. I have a squigherder and the squig dissapears all the time and he and/or the mobs port more often then is acceptable as well.  Also, you've never been annoyed with the "Target out of Range" crap when the mob is standing right in front of you, lol.. come on, you aren't blind. And that's not all.. I'm not here to bash the game at all, hell I bought it. I just don't want people to believe it's anywhere near as polished as it should be.

  herennow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/20/05
Posts: 69

9/30/08 7:45:30 PM#49
Originally posted by gatheris

funny that he completely ignored - not just side-stepped - but ignored the city part of the questions

are they gone for good?

has this been brought up anywhere else?

 

it has, try going to warhammeralliance and looking up Mark Jacob's posts. Basically cut for the foreseeable but they'd love to see them back in-game. no timelines, content was pulled and focussed into the two main caps. No further announcement. You'll find this question dodged as there's enough RvR not to need them at the moment, greater priorities including bug-fixing and trying to fix the cut classes etc. Entirely conjecture on my part but I don't see this featuring as a Mythic topic until the caps start being taken.

I am now going to sound like a fanboi and say I think this is a good thing. For people like myself who did not play DaoC this is a different kind of pvp game and I prefer the extra capitals to be added after we've got to grips with what we are currently offered. then it will add dimension. Currently it would be a distraction in focus when I've got enough to pay attention to. just an opinion and you are welcome to hold a different one.

Me? I just want a cloaks and chat box jump  fix so I don't have to faff with those every time I log on or jump scene. These grate a lot more than cut capitals I've never seen.

  Freelance

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/04
Posts: 83

9/30/08 7:59:42 PM#50

Originally posted by iceberg2ice

To all those that responded to my post and said there are not many bugs and imperfections in warhammer, here is a list, titled "requests" so that they dont hurth their feelings (I hope it's not agains mmorpg rules to link to another forum, if it is please a moderator delete it). The list is not complete cause with so many bugs and requests you can see in the same forum I bet the guy has a tough time to keep up - and probably he is not even getting paid for it...

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105263

Can't find the other post in warhammeralliance forum where the thread was locked and the guy was told by the admin to not post a bugs list because it is against their policy or something like that. Probably they deleted it already. I mean people try to help the company by compiling bug lists for free, and they don't even allow them to post, go figure...

Don't get me wrong, the game has many good things in it and I like it and probably will be playing it after my month is over, but only because there is nothing better out there. If I want be honest and as a customer, it is an unfinished product and was rushed out of the door probably for marketing reasons (wow expansion coming soon). I have submitted personally about 5 bug and request reports a day in the first week, and then I got tired. I just hope they start fixing soon before servers get empty and we have another DAoC case...


 

You make it sound like the bugs are massive in that link.   I read through it and most of those are not bugs but request for certain changes to the game.   Most of  the bugs that you try and make massive are really small in scale. 

I have played just about every mmo that has come out since DAOC and all of them have bugs even to this day.  I work for a major isp and the software we work with everyday has some bugs in it.  Really I dont think anyone can come up with a single bit of software of any size that doesnt have some bugs.

I can understand being critical of game stopping issues but some of the beef you people have are petty in my opinion. 

Before it is even posted by someone I will respond to it.  "But wow doesnt have any bugs", that statement is total and complete BS. 

  natuxatu

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/12/03
Posts: 1374

Bookah

9/30/08 10:22:06 PM#51

I'm very happy with the work they are doing daily to improve the game, get out the bugs ect. I think they're doing a very good job.

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

10/01/08 12:06:51 AM#52
Originally posted by Ironman2000

Ok first off, please don't hate me for my "Xfire WoW Tag" lol.  Now i'm not bashing anything, but asking a legitimate question. 

Shouldn't they have just pushed release back some to finish up whats missing?  I mean from what i'm reading it just seems like how sony (and i know this isn't a sony game, i'm just comparing to how sony operates) seems to run with their mmo's (but no where near as HORRIBLE lol).  You know, they release a game or expansion pack before the "Promised" content was ready to go instead of airing on the side of caution and pushing back release dates.

Thoughts?  Opinions?

Thanks :)

PS: I have since decided to wait on MMO's to launch and be out for some time before I purchase them after being burned so badly with some of the "Junk" thats been pushed out lately (and no i'm not saying War is that at all)

 

Warhammer/mythic is so far ahead of any Sony release it isn't even fair to mention them in the same breath. 

While warhammer has a few bugs that may be annoying they are not game breakers.  All the core game mechanics work and are fairly well thought out.  The game play is fun and enjoyable. 

Warhammer isn't perfect nor is it the best launch in history, but it is far more than acceptable from what I have seen now.  It looks like a supermodel compared to most games released post-WoW era, except LOTRO.  Well maybe not so pretty for Europe.... Sorry mates!

 

Warhammer will grow up to be a very good to great game over the next year as it works out the kinks and design issues and hopefully a community developes.  Unlike Sony games it will not spend the next 1-3 years constantly redesigning the core aspects of the game that should have been finalized before launch.

Honestly Sonys best release effort is somewhat comparable to Age of Conan.  It looks pretty and "has potential", but underneath it is one giant mess.  Notice I didn't specify a game, because you can apply that to anything that launched with the SOE brand on its box. 

  horseraddishinfinity

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 32

10/01/08 12:19:08 AM#53

"hundreds of thousands of hours of gameplay"

23 year = 201 613.694 hours

I kind of hate me for doing this but i will be the smartass anyway.  no one is going to be talking about this in 2031. were going to be playing Waterworld Online, only this time... its for realsies!

i did enjoy warhammer beta though not having the blackguard was a downer. really glad i bought the pre order box from target so i did not have to pay for the whole thing.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1676

10/01/08 3:08:07 AM#54

Hmm ... about bugs ... have lv. 18, 15, 14, 12 ... and 3 classes lv. 8. All Empire. On other server 3 destr up to lv. 5 (essentially just to experiment, for serious work I prefer to be good guy :-)). Up to now I have NOT encountered any serious bug that would prevent me from playing. Ok, once I was unable to play one alt for one hour, I was always returned to char selection. And once one quest which required killing 7 mobs was fixed at 6/7 until I restarted client.

And there was GOA problem with open beta.

But as for lunch goes it was incredibly smooth, I can hardly remember one better. Client is super stable, especially compared to any other similar game I have played through years (and I'm not so young), support is pretty responsive (but to short for description), ... etc.

Warhammer is doing really great. Also who needs that fu...ing gold sellers? At lv. 18 my bright wizard already have money for mount.

Of course, there is always something to improve. I'm also looking forward to missing classes, cities, ... but for now I'm satisfied.

The only thing I really do not like is gathering and crafting which is really bad. I mean bad. Talisman making is incredibly time consuming (while my primary alt is lv. 9 in talisman, other is over 100 in alchemy) and expensive. And not rewarding. After destroying green, blue, ... items ... you can create talismans with minimal effect. But not only! They least from only FEW HOURS to few days! Not to speaking that in game about war there should be primarily armor and weapon crafting and not talisman making. And kind of mining. Ok for alchemy, but there should be for sure some kind of herbalism.

  Cendharia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

10/01/08 3:31:43 AM#55

Just want to say thanks again Jon for another good interview, with questions directed at the things that gamers want to know about their game.   Thank you Jeff for your honest answers, and here's hoping those classes shape up the way  you guys want..and we see them ingame..possibly a few months from now.

Just want to mention I have four characters now, my main being a Witchelf in tier 3 ( LOVE THAT ARMOR!!)  and the others are mostly level ten for crafting and possibly to help out lower level guild membrs who joined late.

I am on Vortex server, and frankly have to say...ADDICTED to this game.  *big smile*    I've already subbed for a few months to come......so guess you'll have to put up with me  for a while yet!!! :D

Cend

 

 

 

  Cendharia

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Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

10/01/08 3:38:52 AM#56
Originally posted by gatheris

funny that he completely ignored - not just side-stepped - but ignored the city part of the questions

are they gone for good?

has this been brought up anywhere else?

 


 

Those questions weren't asked in "this" interview..and yes its been brought up before....if you have taken a good look at either the Inevitable City OR Altdorf  (take a flight master...go explore there if you haven't)   then you know ..what their standards are.......the Inevitable City is ENORMOUS...and evolving, same with Altdorf I would imagine...there is a ton of detail in each one, with more details added each rank up.

What I saw mentioned before..think the Devs are playing around with the idea of rotating the the cities..two by two so that we always have different objectives to work on...and it doesn't get "boring'.   Sounds good to me, but...its not gonna be easy to siege those cities anyways...don't ever think it will be, will take alot of work, effort..coordination of the players.    Yes I said work....as in working together.  :P

Funny story..other night ( I am Destruction by the way)  I was wandering around in the Inevitable City..and went up Flesh Rot alley.........saw a plague pot that was clickable...so being the person I am,   I clicked it.   Well!!!!!!!!!!!

I unleashed a massive horde of little AGRO Nurgles on the City......omg...I fought them and fought them and fought them, til finally they overpowered me and I died.   But I was laughing my face off the whole time.

Kudos to the Dev that thought that one up...it was hilarious watching other players trying to side-step these angry little balls of infected mobs...hehehe 

Too funny :D

Cend

 

  Cendharia

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Posts: 287

10/01/08 3:47:38 AM#57
Originally posted by Redmow

 I got out of it that the cities are not gone for good but rather the cut classes rate first before that along with other glitches and bugs.

 My only complaint was not seeing anything on improved chat. Of course, that question wasn't asked either.

 I agree about the RvR stuff. I've had times where my Chaos Chosen gets stomped and other times, I'm doing the stomping. Of course, I've had to change my play style. I took Chaos Chosen to heart and just rushed into battle maiming, killing and destroying. I try to be more of a team player now.

 But, getting a good defense set up or a good retaliatory strike going really needs a good chat system. I'm not talking about the scenarios but rather the RvR areas in the zones. We were getting stomped last night a few steps away from the war camp...the war camp was full of potential reinforcements. I had to /shout to get some help.

 Overall, I'm loving the game. Granted, I'm only rank 9 but so far so good except for a few things.


 

Yes I was under the impression ( someone told me this) that we were supposed to have the ability to join the war effort ie:   /join Destruction chaat   or /join Order chat  ...but I tried it and you can't do that..or at least if there is an ability to do so..its not clear.   It really "should" appear as an option on the left hand side of the chat window along with...the other options of /say, /warband, /guild..etc. 

After all....this is WAR..is it not? :P

Cend

  Cendharia

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Posts: 287

10/01/08 3:55:07 AM#58
Originally posted by Robbgobb

I want a gamma option. I have more issues with that than anything besides gold sellers and PQs being empty. I accept that RvR is going to be hit or miss. Cities at the moment is the least of my worries and classes would be nice but I am still exploring the ones that are there.


 

I also have issues with darkness in my game, and at first was dead set on asking for a gamma slider, but I was told by another player to adjust the gamma and brightness through the desktop itself.   I have Nvidia so thats not a problem for me.   

Have to agree though, the InEvitable City is very dark in places and usually in the places where its darkest, is a very large pit that you can fall in ..most times to your death. :P

Since I did my desktop adjustments however, no more "pit falls" for me :D

Cend

  Cendharia

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Posts: 287

10/01/08 3:58:25 AM#59
Originally posted by Scalebane
Originally posted by iceberg2ice

funny how they are discussing about extra content when the game is so full of bugs and imperfections... and the warhammeralliance forum does not even allow posting about them... they should be looking at fixing the rushed unfinished buggy release first before even thinking about adding more content...

 

Thats wonderful fan sites for you, thats why Mythic is using them to hide the problems, thats why they don't have their own forums, to hide from the problems, oh they go around looking at what people are saying (thats why whats his face in the interview probably seems kinda hurt from how people are judging the game so early)  but still i think they made things worse by having things spread out, then on their own forums, least some companies care enough about their playerbase that they give ya a home =P

I'll just say that the game is in beta..oh wait..i kid i kid but still that was an excuse for a long time and things that should have been fixed never did get fixed if they don't have people staying on after the first free month its because they don't wanna pay for beta testing which with all the issues its starting to feel that way.

I personaly will stay till my free month is up then cancel, i'll check back on the game when more problems are gone and the things that should have been released are in the game =)


 

Thats absolutely silly..........really.   I have never seen a game's devs so upfront about stuff.   And as for the other poster stating its "not allowed" to post suggestions etc on Warhammer Alliance...thats not true either.   We had page after page of player suggestions stickied up top of that forum site.    The Devs and other team members ..DO check in there from time to time..and I am sure the suggestions are reviewed to see if they are viable or not.

Cend

  Cendharia

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Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

10/01/08 4:04:49 AM#60
Originally posted by banthis
Originally posted by Ravanos
Originally posted by LordDraekon

Jeff, sometimes it's more a simple matter of giving paying customers what they want. It's sounds like the missing classes are on indefinite hold. That's cool. Take as long as you want, but don't be surprised when we take our dollars somewhere else while you dilly-dally around with this. You say that each of the classes you've released are unique in and of themselves. I think you're starting to believe your own hype. Each class within an archetype is basically the same as every other class in that archetype. The only real difference is cosmetic, different flashy effects, but nothing really unique. They all progress pretty much the same. Judging from what you released, I have to wonder if the missing classes just weren't finished, rather than not "fun enough". Frankly, what you released wasn't that great either.

But hey, take your time. I'll just refrain from throwing any more money into WAR until you guys get your act together. This consumer isn't supporting an unfinished product.

Nice interview, Jon. Thanks for pulling these guys out of their corner a little bit.


 

i agree I hate the whole "it wasn't good enough" excuse to be honest ... especially since the barely let beta testers try out the classes or even suggest changes to them. i remember i asked if i could make a post asking for suggestions for the cut classes while in beta ... I was warned that they werent taking suggestions and if i pressed the issue they would revoke my beta slot.

sorry but they should let the gamers decide if the class is good enough. also part of me would take a half assed black guard, instead of having to level up another character and switch when the black guard comes out.


 

And there's the dilemma...do they push out unfinished medocre classes to see if the masses like them? Or do they hold them back to they're finished and less sucky?   Its a lose lose situation..personally we'd see way more flames & haters & trolls if the classes were there and unfinished.  Its obvious from the way they discuss the subject and the fact they weren't seen in beta after christmas last year that they were Not Complete nor probably near it.  While it sucks I can't play the choppa I'd rather not have him if he's going to be a lame peice of crap.

None of you are ever happy when it comes to stuff like this..yous ay let the gamers decide but MOST gamers don't want to be given a peice of unfinished crap.  If they put them in you'd cry they suck if they leave them out you cry because you didn't get to decide well...which is the lesser evil?  To me not having them is the lesser evil...means I still have a chance at liking the class later on.


 

Indeed...I agree and if I had my druthers...the only things Devs would listen to from players..is CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM...not negative...this or that sucks and I am taking my marbles and going home...nonsense.

The Devs of any game usually find themselves between a rock and a hard place....choices:   do they do the game the way they originally intended...or do they listen to the massive outpourings of sulk and tantrum...that happen every new game?   I think Blizzard gave in on this one.........hopefully Mythic sticks to their guns and puts the content into the game...that WORKS.....not because of players crying..but because thats the way it was intended.

Cend

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