Wow, I couldn't have put it better myself.  Even though all the trolls that instantly become active if you trash talk their game will come out.  I whole heartedly agree with your statements and as much as I wanted to think this was the greatest MMO I spent 50 bucks on, its falls very short of that.

Originally posted by invsblmn

WAR is a good game, no doubt about it. It has some great ideas to contribute. But its problem is not that it lacks big ideas. Rather, it falls short in the details and the polish that makes WoW so fun to play (or even to grind).

Yes, I believe the WoW comparison has to be made. WAR is clearly influenced by WoW and is simply begging for that comparison. Now, on to the points:

1) The combat just doesn't "feel" good. I think it's a combination of subpar sound effects and the poor animation not synchronizing well together. Grinding mobs with my warrior priest is half as fun as tearing through mobs with my warrior in WoW. Here's the thing. I'm a big fan or games like Minesweeper and Tetris. They are addictive not because they have groundbreaking graphics or epic ideas but because they are satisfying. There's just that "click" when you clear a line. Just like how combat in WoW simply had that satisfying feel to it - from the charge to the devastate. Everything clicks. It feels like a mini-game in its own way. I actually like grinding motes in WoW. It's therapeutic just like playing Tetris. No joke. 

2) Questing is so easy it's trivial. I don't feel like any of it matters because I can get much better experience doing scenarios anyway. I know you will say that's the point but it really trivializes the feeling of exploration. The WoW quests ARE time-sinks but it is because of that that completing a quest actually feels like an accomplishment. As it stands, the current ultra-fast questing system is fine were it not for 1). Grinding is no fun, either with a Black Orc and especially with my Warrior Priest (my main). 

3) WAR is basically an amusement park, where you are ushered through a set path and wait in line for the rides. Everything is geared toward your satisfaction - the experience, renown points keep rolling in, at every moment upgrades geared specifically for you are shoved in your face, the PQs dole out rewards suitable specifically for your class. The game basically bends over backwards to make sure you, the gamer, is having a good time and feeling rewarded. Frankly, it feels a bit patronizing.

WoW is a time-sink and is also linear, etc. But its brilliance lies in its ability to create the illusion that it is free and open. The difficulty (i.e. raids and the harder 5-mans) and grind and time commitment needed to advance in WoW is not NECESSARILY a bad thing - just like accomplishing things in real life, raiding takes effort (PvP is a different matter). In WAR I can just stand around in scenarios or RvR and half-assedly do some damage and healing and I'd come away with a healthy stream of points. 

I did not regret buying WAR at all. But I probably won't resubscribe and will take WotLK instead. I don't mean to insult WAR - I'm just stating that its design goals and philosophy doesn't really suit my playing style.

To summarize: WAR feels contrived. The gameplay feels like the game world is designed for the gamer and not your character, if that makes any sense. 

In my view of MMORPG history, WAR represents another step taken on the road away from UO and EQ (when MMOs were a fringe hobby). Now it's all about instant gratification, FPS style. I'm interested in MMOs for the stories - both the ones written in-game and the ones you make for yourself. Of course, many of us are looking for a game that returns to the roots of the genre - a sandbox, no hand-holding game that takes commitment and effort to learn. A game that has an element of risk and you might actually get screwed over by other players or if you get unlucky.

WoW took that first step on the road, of course, but it disguised it so well that the game felt perfect. Speaking of which, I really should go get my warrior alt to 70 in time for WotLK. 

This is not a flame nor is it a review. Just some thoughts. But feel free to disagree and get angry like some in this community likes to do.

 

---

 

ADDED:

To elaborate: I think the Tome of Knowledge is brilliant. The idea of tracking quests, lore, exploration is fantastic. The ToK would fit a game like WoW perfectly. But in WAR, when there are so many mindless 3-minute quests the greatness of the ToK idea doesn't fit with the forgettable nature of the quests themselves. The ToK feels less like a record of what I've done as it  does a record of what I don't know I did but might read up on afterwards if I'm bored. You know what I mean?

I would say that WAR contributed a few genuine innovations to the genre:

Public quests - though the 3-step pattern in WAR is far too predictable, but the concept can be expanded on in future games

Tome of Knowledge - a logical next step for MMOs that I'm sure Blizzard will catch onto (in WotLK)

Permanent RvR-style war-effort effects on your capital city - of course this is actually due to DAoC

Collision detection - minor but of great tactical significance

Originally posted by DuraheLL

Originally posted by IcoGames

Request that the thread gets moved then, or don't reply to it and let the thread die. : )

No thread dies easily on this site. You can bring up "Game X is better than game Y" a million times a day and they will all be equally carefully discusses back and forth over and over forever.

Of course the OP is saying WoW is a better game in comparison with his/her experience with WAR.  In other threads you decry that 'trolls' do nothing but post simple comments; well here's an example of well explained reason why the OP doesn't like WAR and you reply in your first post ... well like a troll by your own definition lol. 

 There was nothing to say really, who can blame?

 

Then why say anything?

Also, why should any thread die that has an ongoing discussion? The OP had some valid points; some agreed, while others didn't.  Nothing wrong with having a discussion on a discussion board.

OP is spot on ....war is a damn good game,i'l give it that  but  ...BUT it's  still nothing close to WoW in terms of quality ,game world etc.

to all you fanbois

One week versus 4 years.

Of course there will be more polish and interesting gameplay.

To the OP: Run along little fanboi and quit trolling.

If you love wow (more like "meh") so much, do us all a favor and go play it.

I bet the OP will still be playing WAR cause he cant get his pvp fix in WoW.

Originally posted by battleaxe22

OP is spot on ....war is a damn good game,i'l give it that  but  ...BUT it's  still nothing close to WoW in terms of quality ,game world etc.

to all you fanbois

Yeah, WoW's had 4 years to polish and make their gameplay interesting and fun. They've failed for me. I find it to be repetitive and, frankly, non-imaginative with them 'borrowing' ideas from all of the other games out there. Wouldn't be so bad, but I've played all the games they've stolen from, so I don't find the ideas new and exciting, but old and overdone.

War has been out for less than a month and has caught my interest far more than WoW ever did. And it will, hopefully, only get better as it becomes more polished and has expansions released.

i think if you really liked WOW more, you would have just put down warhammer and went back to WOW. obviously you are unsure by making this thread. it screams controversy as anytime the 2 games are compared. i couldnt get pass level 50 in WOW it was too repetative, the same thing. you would constantly revist old areas for new quest that matched your level. lame, in WAR im always moving forward.
 

Originally posted by neonwire

I agree with your description of WAR as it does indeed seem to throw endless rewards in the players direction without any real effort being required to obtain them. It is very clearly an amusement park and isnt really intended to be a world you can explore as such.

Funny thing about this. I stopped playing WoW because I felt that game's pacing and rewards (especially after they increased the xp rate) were too generous, to the point of being patronizing. For example.. I hate... hate.. hate... discovery XP. Yes it's only a small amount, but it's such a "gimme"... all I did was ran forward and crossed an invisible line... and you're rewarding me xp for that?

I checked out WAR and... well imagine my reaction when the first NPC I clicked on gave me an XP reward.. then I got an xp reward for "discovering" the first of any new mob I killed.. then I got xp for "discovering" a new area... and on and on. The freebie xp doesn't seem to stop in WAR.

Though I think WAR is basically a fun game and I enjoy playing the classes I've chosen, I don't see me playing it for the long-term for that reason alone. Too damn much reward for too little effort.

For Pete's sake... make me do *something* more for the xp. I'm not made of glass. I can handle a challenge.

I mean... have MMO players become so much like rats in a cage pressing a lever repeatedly to keep getting treats? It must be the case, 'cause that's what the MMOs are starting to feel more and more like with every new one that comes out.

They've become little more than reward-a-minute interactive success dispensers.

But thereya go... to each their own.

Originally posted by mrnutz1065

Although I actually agree with some of those points I found it actually went the other way for me. I guess warhammer just caters to my personal tastes better.

It's refreshing to read a thread like this, as opposed to "warhammer is awful, WoW roxx lolol"

Yeah, it' s like coffee. 7-11 or Starbucks?

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by neonwire

I agree with your description of WAR as it does indeed seem to throw endless rewards in the players direction without any real effort being required to obtain them. It is very clearly an amusement park and isnt really intended to be a world you can explore as such.

 

Funny thing about this. I stopped playing WoW because I felt that game's pacing and rewards (especially after they increased the xp rate) were too generous, to the point of being patronizing. For example.. I hate... hate.. hate... discovery XP. Yes it's only a small amount, but it's such a "gimme"... all I did was ran forward and crossed an invisible line... and you're rewarding me xp for that?

I checked out WAR and... well imagine my reaction when the first NPC I clicked on gave me an XP reward.. then I got an xp reward for "discovering" the first of any new mob I killed.. then I got xp for "discovering" a new area... and on and on. The freebie xp doesn't seem to stop in WAR.

Though I think WAR is basically a fun game and I enjoy playing the classes I've chosen, I don't see me playing it for the long-term for that reason alone. Too damn much reward for too little effort.

For Pete's sake... make me do *something* more for the xp. I'm not made of glass. I can handle a challenge.

I mean... have MMO players become so much like rats in a cage pressing a lever repeatedly to keep getting treats? It must be the case, 'cause that's what the MMOs are starting to feel more and more like with every new one that comes out.

They've become little more than reward-a-minute interactive success dispensers.

But thereya go... to each their own.

Well, really  isn't real life about "goals" and "rewards"?

Originally posted by laresloci

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by neonwire

I agree with your description of WAR as it does indeed seem to throw endless rewards in the players direction without any real effort being required to obtain them. It is very clearly an amusement park and isnt really intended to be a world you can explore as such.

 

Funny thing about this. I stopped playing WoW because I felt that game's pacing and rewards (especially after they increased the xp rate) were too generous, to the point of being patronizing. For example.. I hate... hate.. hate... discovery XP. Yes it's only a small amount, but it's such a "gimme"... all I did was ran forward and crossed an invisible line... and you're rewarding me xp for that?

I checked out WAR and... well imagine my reaction when the first NPC I clicked on gave me an XP reward.. then I got an xp reward for "discovering" the first of any new mob I killed.. then I got xp for "discovering" a new area... and on and on. The freebie xp doesn't seem to stop in WAR.

Though I think WAR is basically a fun game and I enjoy playing the classes I've chosen, I don't see me playing it for the long-term for that reason alone. Too damn much reward for too little effort.

For Pete's sake... make me do *something* more for the xp. I'm not made of glass. I can handle a challenge.

I mean... have MMO players become so much like rats in a cage pressing a lever repeatedly to keep getting treats? It must be the case, 'cause that's what the MMOs are starting to feel more and more like with every new one that comes out.

They've become little more than reward-a-minute interactive success dispensers.

But thereya go... to each their own.

 

Well, really  isn't real life about "goals" and "rewards"?

WSImike, all I can say is.....Is your life lacking in some way? Do you really feel that much of a need for a virtual slog through trial and challange?

These games are not supposed to be life simulators, or infact a substitute for the real thing. Maybe WAR and games like it are not for you. How about you try Second Life, Project Entropia, A Tale in the Desert or WW2 online?

Maybe real life is sooo easy for you that you seek virtual challange? Maybe you overlook the most important principle in the MMO-gaming industry; it's reliance on repeat subscriptions. Making a game a life like struggle is not the best way to secure a large revenue stream.

How about you take your own words of wisdom and take up a real challange and make the game you, and a handful of others want to play?

Whenever I see posts like this (seem to be a fair amount today especially) I think "this person has not gotten to tier 2 and participated in RvR warfare with real keeps."  C'mon people this is just awesome!  There is no better experience in an MMO than getting out there and ending up in a fairly even fight -either roughly edqual numbers in the open or one side has just enough to augment the keep defense and hold the opposing force at bay.  Sure it doesn't always end up that way, but when it does - it's da bomb!

Originally posted by laresloci

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by neonwire

I agree with your description of WAR as it does indeed seem to throw endless rewards in the players direction without any real effort being required to obtain them. It is very clearly an amusement park and isnt really intended to be a world you can explore as such.

 

Funny thing about this. I stopped playing WoW because I felt that game's pacing and rewards (especially after they increased the xp rate) were too generous, to the point of being patronizing. For example.. I hate... hate.. hate... discovery XP. Yes it's only a small amount, but it's such a "gimme"... all I did was ran forward and crossed an invisible line... and you're rewarding me xp for that?

I checked out WAR and... well imagine my reaction when the first NPC I clicked on gave me an XP reward.. then I got an xp reward for "discovering" the first of any new mob I killed.. then I got xp for "discovering" a new area... and on and on. The freebie xp doesn't seem to stop in WAR.

Though I think WAR is basically a fun game and I enjoy playing the classes I've chosen, I don't see me playing it for the long-term for that reason alone. Too damn much reward for too little effort.

For Pete's sake... make me do *something* more for the xp. I'm not made of glass. I can handle a challenge.

I mean... have MMO players become so much like rats in a cage pressing a lever repeatedly to keep getting treats? It must be the case, 'cause that's what the MMOs are starting to feel more and more like with every new one that comes out.

They've become little more than reward-a-minute interactive success dispensers.

But thereya go... to each their own.

 

Well, really  isn't real life about "goals" and "rewards"?

Did you actually read what he said or did you just skip it all and just guess? His whole point was that the game gives you rewards for not doing anything and then you reply with "Life is about goals and rewards".

/agree to the opener.

Super-casual gamers, heres your game!

Originally posted by Micro_angel

/agree to the opener.

 

Super-casual gamers, heres your game!

I don't necessarily agree with that...lol. It takes more skill to kill in War then Wow....also it's not nearly as Gear based as wow is. Wow is for the casual gamer.

"How this thread made me realize what a brilliant person I am who can enjoy games without nitpicking!"

Once I read point number 3 I realized that the OP is a masochistic person, as are most avid WoW players.

Seriously, the fact that the game is fun is a bad thing? If someone wanting you to enjoy your video game time is PATRONIZING then you are in the wrong market. In fact, the whole reason I dislike Wow is that Blizzard wants to make it a job for it's players. I have a full time job, thank you very much, and I do NOT need to WORK at the video games I play. Call me "uber casual" or whatever you want, but personally, in my opinion, if I am paying for entertainment I want it to entertain not begrudge me my fun.

You get my personal  "Go back to WoW" award, with my full gratitude that you gave WAR a chance, and the go back to WoW is meant in the best possible way. You like WoW, please play it and enjoy yourself. If you ever decide to come back to WAR we'll be happy to have you. =D

Originally posted by Burnthebed

Once I read point number 3 I realized that the OP is a masochistic person, as are most avid WoW players.

Seriously, the fact that the game is fun is a bad thing? If someone wanting you to enjoy your video game time is PATRONIZING then you are in the wrong market. In fact, the whole reason I dislike Wow is that Blizzard wants to make it a job for it's players. I have a full time job, thank you very much, and I do NOT need to WORK at the video games I play. Call me "uber casual" or whatever you want, but personally, in my opinion, if I am paying for entertainment I want it to entertain not begrudge me my fun.

You get my personal  "Go back to WoW" award, with my full gratitude that you gave WAR a chance, and the go back to WoW is meant in the best possible way. You like WoW, please play it and enjoy yourself. If you ever decide to come back to WAR we'll be happy to have you. =D

Nobody should call you "uber casual" :) You'r just an ordinary gamer who wants fun like me I suppose.

I play games online because I enjoy them, I dont play games to have a second job in a virtual world where I have to grind for everything. Ok so you get xp just for clicking on an npc but its a very,very small amount hardly worth getting. But the xp you get from finding a new area or killing a new mob is that it unlocks a tome entry and further builds the worlds history for us, I see it as more a promt to read about what you you just discovered, imagine that having to read in an MMO the sky must be falling in.

There are challenges out there. I did a PQ the other day against a high Elf guarded by about 5 champs. The champs went down like Frank Bruno against Mike Tyson in no time at all but the Boss was the hardest I have faced in this game. We had about 9 people just hitting on him and it took an absolute age to drop him, in fact we wiped twice before he went down. So the argument that everything is handed to you on a silver plater is a little over exagerated.

The OP made an intelligent well thought out post and I agree with some of it and dont with others. WAR has been out, what a week or so? And people are wanting it to be a perfectly polished gem. MMO's dont work like that, it didnt work like that in EQ1 and it didnt work like that in WoW and it will not work like that in WAR.

I loved WoW for the good times it gave me, even the WoW haters must admit that the game was bloody good. But its time to move on, PvP in WoW is shallow and unrewarding, its all about the gear and how big your epeen is when you get that super rare sword or armour. In WAR I can as a level 17 tank stand toe to toe with a level 21 tank and with a bit of luck and some cunning drop him. I cant really say that for WoW. If you have the best gear you win and thats that. The PvP will keep me here and the game will grow and will get better with time, its just some people dont want to give it time.