Originally posted by IronMan66

Originally posted by templarga

I am lucky to play on a well-balanced server and had some serious fun. The exact thing you describe has happened time and again but defending the keep is a lot of fun. That for me is why I play WAR - its simply fun. Period. If others do not find it fun, that is fine. But many of these arguments are not grounded in anything other than people's ignorant misunderstanding of the game and not valid concerns.

 

I agree in principle that taking a keep or defending one is pretty fun stuff.  But the inevitability of the outcome is going to discourage players.   People dont play to lose time after time.  Victory is what people are after.  Again, when the battle is over before it starts, and if people already know this (and they will become wise to the fact), then it becomes pretty much an effort in futility. 

 

Given a well balanced or not, as the population starts increasing for Destruction, which it will, then re-rollers will start migrating to more and more servers.  Thus creating a population problem on even the more balanced servers.  It is predictable at this even early state of the game.

And I agree in principle to your agreement in principle. :)

However, that is a slipper-slope argument. "The battle is over before it starts". if you use that same line of thinking, then there in no reason to play. One day I will stop playing or WAR will stop being (one day long away) so why should I bother? One day I am going to move on to another game (I no longer play EQ or DAOC) so is my time there wasted? To be blunt, all time spent playing an MMO is futile.

I understand your frustration and I wish that Mythic would either make it harder to take keeps or put a time limit on them. It does suck to see them re-taken so soon after a long fight. I will agree - but for me, the fun is in the battle itself, not in the outcome.

Population will work itself out. I will assume (hopefully rightfully so) that Mythic already has plans for population imbalances down the road. It was such an issue in DAOC that it is hard to believe that Mythic isn't prepared for it in WAR. The actually population for WAR will fluctuate greatly in the next 3 months but by the middle of January, it should stabilize and remain pretty constant.

Originally posted by Mcpoopypants

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Mcpoopypants

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Mcpoopypants

Are you that suprised?? Like WOW, WAR was designed for the lowest common denominator. People who arent really good at video games, people who play all there games on easy mode. Children, mothers, etc. Kinda like the WII. This makes up most of the market, thus also the reason we see video games getting easier and easier, so are you really THAT suprised with its subscription numbers?

 

You really have never played and have no idea what you are talking about. This is the typical troll argument:

Because WAR looks like WOW or has an UI like WOW or you log into it like WOW or because you install it on your computer like WOW, it must be easy to play.

WAR takes on a whole new meaning if you understand how to play. It is not easy. Sure levels 1-5 are easy but by the time you get to 15+, it changes. If you want to win and actually particiapte and do what you are supposed to do, using tactics and strategy, the game gets more complicated. I am not saying that it is that hard of a game but to say it is eays mode or for the lowest common denominator, only shows the ignorance of those who know nothing of the game.

 

I have played, typical fanboy response "You never played waa" Then it's "You havent played long enough waa" Then it's "You havent played for 2 years yet so what do you know??" Lol sigh, fanboys, cant live wit em, cant kill em

Fanboy? Yeah, I do not think so. I think most people who read my posts here know that I am not a fanboy. I have the game that I like and I do not like. I am anything but a fanboy -  a blind follower of a company that can do no wrong.

Your posts still lack originality and offer nothing to the discussion. Your posts are nothing but the lowest common denominator of troll arguments that are based on nothing but your biased, inexperienced opinions.

Come with a valid argument, one that adds to the discussion and you might just get a better response to your arguments.

 

Your post has no originality either, why do you need me to be original when your not? same old fanboy cry.  Valid argument? Whose trying to argue, just saying, War is in the same vein as Wow, easy mode made for lowest common denominator, anyone can play. That's cool too, my 6 year old nephew plays and owns in it, I think its a really good game for kids and beginners.

I just hate that since it's the "Any-mans" game, that also means it gets the highest sales, which means other companies copy the formula. It's making mmo's that require player-skill and thought to become more rare.

Try not to get your fanboy panties in a twist and talk like your not a foaming at the mouth fanboy

Fine, reduce your arguments to fanboy this and fanboy that. It simply shows that you have nothing more to talk about or add and again nothing original. You are only quoting and adding to the same old, tired and ignorant arguments that have sunken many of these forums to the cesspool of ignorance that they are.

War does require thought and player-skill but unlike other games it isn't obvious. However you do not care nor do my arguments matter to you because you get more out of calling people fanboys and not listening to what they say. That's fine - while I am trying to debate multiple aspects to the game, you want a fanboy argument from me. Sorry I am too old and mature to stoop to that level; also I am mature enough to understand when that is the argument at hand and when to walk away. Have fun with your fanboy name calling, this is my last post in response to you. I will take my arguments and comments to people who actually bother to discuss the things at hand and not stoop to name calling.

I hope you are correct, but that Chicken Little inside of me is squaking up a storm.  I do like the game, and wish for it to succeed, but it is getting harder and harder to play as Order on a totally dominated server.

Haha the WoW fanbois are scared. Otherwise why would they be so vocal?

Originally posted by IronMan66

I hope you are correct, but that Chicken Little inside of me is squaking up a storm.  I do like the game, and wish for it to succeed, but it is getting harder and harder to play as Order on a totally dominated server.

Try Ulthuan. :) I cannot say that Order does dominate or that Destruction doesn't but I can tell you that on our server, we have some darn good battles. Order is outnumbered but is better organized and strategic. Destruction has numbers but so far its been tactics that have won their battles.  We have a couple closed beta guilds on there (as well as the Penny Arcade guild) that are fun to fight because they know HOW to play -- beyond the zerg that you find on most other servers. :)

Order on ostermark basicly kicks butt when ever my guild forms up a warband and we meet one of the other big WBs in a RvR zone. Even on weekdays during the day our server runs med/med with our guild running 30-40 people on a night. Pretty dam fun on our server. Also its never med/high or high/full. Server pop is almost always even.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Mcpoopypants

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Mcpoopypants

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Mcpoopypants

Are you that suprised?? Like WOW, WAR was designed for the lowest common denominator. People who arent really good at video games, people who play all there games on easy mode. Children, mothers, etc. Kinda like the WII. This makes up most of the market, thus also the reason we see video games getting easier and easier, so are you really THAT suprised with its subscription numbers?

 

You really have never played and have no idea what you are talking about. This is the typical troll argument:

Because WAR looks like WOW or has an UI like WOW or you log into it like WOW or because you install it on your computer like WOW, it must be easy to play.

WAR takes on a whole new meaning if you understand how to play. It is not easy. Sure levels 1-5 are easy but by the time you get to 15+, it changes. If you want to win and actually particiapte and do what you are supposed to do, using tactics and strategy, the game gets more complicated. I am not saying that it is that hard of a game but to say it is eays mode or for the lowest common denominator, only shows the ignorance of those who know nothing of the game.

 

I have played, typical fanboy response "You never played waa" Then it's "You havent played long enough waa" Then it's "You havent played for 2 years yet so what do you know??" Lol sigh, fanboys, cant live wit em, cant kill em

Fanboy? Yeah, I do not think so. I think most people who read my posts here know that I am not a fanboy. I have the game that I like and I do not like. I am anything but a fanboy -  a blind follower of a company that can do no wrong.

Your posts still lack originality and offer nothing to the discussion. Your posts are nothing but the lowest common denominator of troll arguments that are based on nothing but your biased, inexperienced opinions.

Come with a valid argument, one that adds to the discussion and you might just get a better response to your arguments.

 

Your post has no originality either, why do you need me to be original when your not? same old fanboy cry.  Valid argument? Whose trying to argue, just saying, War is in the same vein as Wow, easy mode made for lowest common denominator, anyone can play. That's cool too, my 6 year old nephew plays and owns in it, I think its a really good game for kids and beginners.

I just hate that since it's the "Any-mans" game, that also means it gets the highest sales, which means other companies copy the formula. It's making mmo's that require player-skill and thought to become more rare.

Try not to get your fanboy panties in a twist and talk like your not a foaming at the mouth fanboy

Fine, reduce your arguments to fanboy this and fanboy that. It simply shows that you have nothing more to talk about or add and again nothing original. You are only quoting and adding to the same old, tired and ignorant arguments that have sunken many of these forums to the cesspool of ignorance that they are.

War does require thought and player-skill but unlike other games it isn't obvious. However you do not care nor do my arguments matter to you because you get more out of calling people fanboys and not listening to what they say. That's fine - while I am trying to debate multiple aspects to the game, you want a fanboy argument from me. Sorry I am too old and mature to stoop to that level; also I am mature enough to understand when that is the argument at hand and when to walk away. Have fun with your fanboy name calling, this is my last post in response to you. I will take my arguments and comments to people who actually bother to discuss the things at hand and not stoop to name calling.

You reduced your argument to troll this troll that, I nearly sunk to your level so you could comprehend me. If WAR requires you to think, then that says much about you, not the game, I wont say it because I do not wish to insult you.
 

Name calling, is troll a name? yes, you call me names then whine that I called you names? Dont be a hypocrite. You stooped, so dotn mock it. Have a nice day sir and enjoy your intense battles that when you win do you win the land and the resources, no, they get reset, HAHAHA. Silly theme park kids

If WAR is not considered to be a an MMORPG game, then Guild Wars, City of Heroes, Age of Conan, Sword of the NEw World, Auto Assault, Hellgate London, Maple Story, Phantasy Star Online, Phantsy Star Universe, and even WoW are all not MMORPGs either.

All of these games have the same world setups as WAR.  they all have quick and easy to grab quest.  They all have perfectly laid out little worlds that players will travel through in a linear path.  They all don't play like EQ.

I've noticed that the only people making this BS flawed arguement are the old geezers with their "remeber the good ol days" attitudes, trying to find ever the slightest reason to hate anything that diviates from the old flawd and boring EQ world, with it's vast open plains of empty space.

Originally posted by Jenneroflok

Originally posted by Blodpls

Nah, personally I think it will spike high on sales and then dwindle quite a bit on subs, especially after WotLK arrives.

It's too much of a one trick pony.

 

I do not think it will happen with WoTLK,  I know alot of PvPers that are not happy about the idea of PVP armor or weapontry tied to both Regular PvP and the Arena.  Now this might now happen before launch, but the idea of it happening have friends of mine going back to Starwars Galaxies and Sony (Faint). I for one will not go back to wow now, I have experienced the WAR pvp set and their is no going back.

Its, funny. I'm browsing this and other War forums right now over that decision by Blizzard. I detest their duel in a box PVP and the desicion to make any and all PVP gear tied to it made me decide to cancel 2 accounts and start looking elsewhere.

first month is free but i don't think re-sub the next month...

I know TONS and TONS of people that are going to be dropping WHO like its hot as soon as Darkfall Online comes out.  Untill then WHO will get my money.

Originally posted by QuinColds

Originally posted by Jenneroflok

Originally posted by Blodpls

Nah, personally I think it will spike high on sales and then dwindle quite a bit on subs, especially after WotLK arrives.

It's too much of a one trick pony.

 

I do not think it will happen with WoTLK,  I know alot of PvPers that are not happy about the idea of PVP armor or weapontry tied to both Regular PvP and the Arena.  Now this might now happen before launch, but the idea of it happening have friends of mine going back to Starwars Galaxies and Sony (Faint). I for one will not go back to wow now, I have experienced the WAR pvp set and their is no going back.

 

Its, funny. I'm browsing this and other War forums right now over that decision by Blizzard. I detest their duel in a box PVP and the desicion to make any and all PVP gear tied to it made me decide to cancel 2 accounts and start looking elsewhere.

Actually WOW has three ways to get PVP gear.. you get it from Arena, you get it from Battlegrounds and now you get it from Lake Wintergrasp (open world RvR)  Some of the best gear will require Arena ratings, some will require battleground tokens, and some will require you to win Lake Wintergrasp.

And to put in Warhammer's terms.  Yes, in WOW there are a few pieces that you can only get by winning in the Arena.  But isn' that the same as Warhammer.. Isn't Order going to be 'locked out' of the best pvp gear because they are losing on that server?   WOW, just like War, gives the best gear to players who win, but they give the losing side gear that is good enough to be competitive.

I can't wait for another month when not only is destruction steamrollong on most servers because of population imbalance, but they will also have better gear.  There is already a lot of QQ now, wait til then.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by QuinColds

Originally posted by Jenneroflok

Originally posted by Blodpls

Nah, personally I think it will spike high on sales and then dwindle quite a bit on subs, especially after WotLK arrives.

It's too much of a one trick pony.

 

I do not think it will happen with WoTLK,  I know alot of PvPers that are not happy about the idea of PVP armor or weapontry tied to both Regular PvP and the Arena.  Now this might now happen before launch, but the idea of it happening have friends of mine going back to Starwars Galaxies and Sony (Faint). I for one will not go back to wow now, I have experienced the WAR pvp set and their is no going back.

 

Its, funny. I'm browsing this and other War forums right now over that decision by Blizzard. I detest their duel in a box PVP and the desicion to make any and all PVP gear tied to it made me decide to cancel 2 accounts and start looking elsewhere.

 

Actually WOW has three ways to get PVP gear.. you get it from Arena, you get it from Battlegrounds and now you get it from Lake Wintergrasp (open world RvR)  Some of the best gear will require Arena ratings, some will require battleground tokens, and some will require you to win Lake Wintergrasp.

And to put in Warhammer's terms.  Yes, in WOW there are a few pieces that you can only get by winning in the Arena.  But isn' that the same as Warhammer.. Isn't Order going to be 'locked out' of the best pvp gear because they are losing on that server?   WOW, just like War, gives the best gear to players who win, but they give the losing side gear that is good enough to be competitive.

I can't wait for another month when not only is destruction steamrollong on most servers because of population imbalance, but they will also have better gear.  There is already a lot of QQ now, wait til then.

Perhaps you haven't been   following recent developments in Beta of Wrath. But ALL PVP gear, even the blue starter sets now require a combination of arena points and honor. In fact, the number of points needed would have an avg play on an avg team 2-4 months to get a starter PVP set.

I'm not convinced that WAR will be pulling in all that flak though. I'm seeing more and more people already moving on to the next line of MMO's again. It's like an endless chairdance. Newest MMO comes around, they play it a while, get sick of it and move to the next.

Originally posted by Pheace

I'm not convinced that WAR will be pulling in all that flak though. I'm seeing more and more people already moving on to the next line of MMO's again. It's like an endless chairdance. Newest MMO comes around, they play it a while, get sick of it and move to the next.

 

 

It's because no gaming companies are willing to push the envelopes. Every MMO is about elves, dwarves, ogres, and fantasy that has been coming out (a little bit of sci-fi can come again once in a while as well). I'm so sick of the damn fantasy genre. Nobody really gets that if you make a good MMORPG that is hyped enough and has at least some slight difference to WoW, it will be successful. AoC failed with this because their game wasn't finished. WAR will do alright, but not amazing because they're playing it on the safe route.

Trust me, I've been having some great fun with this game but I don't see how people can go about and say that this isn't just another MMO trying to take a free ride off of WoW. It isn't a bad thing, if others did it like WAR has been doing then all WoW copies with extra sprinkles would do semi-successful. These gaming companies need to realize that some of us are freakin' sick of WoW. And we don't want another WoW.

I see WAR growing in numbers actually. It's a game that just keeps getting better as you level. I quit WoW for 3 months after hitting level 59 with my first character. It was just burning me out with all the instances, and gear grind, and Tarren Mill zergfests.

WAR seems to be the opposite. I'm levelling while I'm PvPing. My guild is getting cooler stuff just hitting Rank 12. Keeps are starting to get contested heavily, and soon Guilds are going to be able to claim them.

People are just now starting to run the instances inside Altdorf, and the RvR lakes are ramping up in their intensity. It's also not hard to get a second character to Rank 40 to help out, but you'll have to pick and choose which ones you want to get to RR80 and whatever benefits that brings.

I dunno, I've never seen an MMO quite like this one. So far it just seems to be getting better.

Obviously as stated many times this is only registered accounts not actual subs. I see the game suffereing the same fate as DAOC did. The first year they reached 500k subs which was actually pretty good but after that it was a steady decline downward. I see the game doing no better than DAOC did which would mean just another subpar mmo to choose from.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Obviously as stated many times this is only registered accounts not actual subs. I see the game suffereing the same fate as DAOC did. The first year they reached 500k subs which was actually pretty good but after that it was a steady decline downward. I see the game doing no better than DAOC did which would mean just another subpar mmo to choose from.

I second what Saint has to say here.....And numbers huh...AoC realeased with huge numbers and I don't see you talking about it?  I would be shocked if they have 100k by Christmas considering the way they go about fixing issues..

Hell they move faster on gold spammers and to hide the true numbers of players faster then they fix major issues...I mean them changing the way you /who people and guild numbers is ridiculous and the only reason is, is because people started figuring out how many numbers were on servers...Unreal

Originally posted by IronMan66

The fact that the Destruction (zerg) side has about 1.5 :1 or 2:1 population in guild membership indicates that they do have extremely competent players.   Relying on the skill of one side to make up for a lack of population will not save this game.  Destruction players are VERY good players.  I have played against alot of them, and I know.

In the Scenarios, when with an organized order side, I've never had a problem fighting destruction on equal groups or beating them pretty solidly.

When you get out into the open world, their 1.5:1 ratio (guild wise on Chaos Wastes) becomes a huge factor, as does when people come down a tier and you find yourself facing greater numbers, and those numbers are 5+ levels higher.  You know you have a problem when you have a warparty in a keep, and the other side can just zerg right into it and completely wipe out everything without any real losses.

When you're around level 20 as a healer, and a lvl 27-29 DPSer hits you, you've got about 2-3 seconds to live.

Originally posted by TeranHawkins

Yeah AOC came out of the gate selling like 900k copies and are now down around 400k from last I heard so I wouldnt get a bit too caught up in early sales figures. 

I do believe that WAR has the potential to gain more subscribers than this initial 500k which is a very good thing though.

AoC didn't sell 900k to players at the start, that is what they sold to retailers (WAR sold around 1.5m to retailers).  Also AoC had 400k subs still active (used or not) at the end of Q2.  That's June 30th, so it's not 400k still unless the pvp patch was a blessed miracle from God.