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DuraheLL
 Novice Member
Joined: 12/14/05
** Ooh theeres aaa monkey in my pocket and hes stealing all my change ** |
9/26/08 2:47:20 PM#61
Originally posted by girlgeek
A statement of opinion, like every post either pro or con Warhammer on this entire site. Im gonna be extremely annoying towards you right now, because I'm fed up with all this "opinion" nullifying. It is YOUR opinion that it's only an opinion
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9/26/08 3:06:59 PM#62
Originally posted by Borkotron
Your the only one that has won anything IMHO. Gratz to you my friend. |
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9/26/08 3:07:45 PM#63
Originally posted by DuraheLL Im gonna be extremely annoying towards you right now, because I'm fed up with all this "opinion" nullifying. It is YOUR opinion that it's only an opinion No, that realy is a fact. |
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9/26/08 3:14:59 PM#64
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Im gonna be extremely annoying towards you right now, because I'm fed up with all this "opinion" nullifying. It is YOUR opinion that it's only an opinion No, that realy is a fact.
What exactly is "a fact," in your opinion? (The above question, is actually somewhat of a statement, but feel free to answer.) "This game is a WINNER." <----Is that a fact? or.... Your opinions are always facts. <----Is that your opinion of what constitutes a fact? Somehow, I feel a bit confused by your statement, "No, that really is a fact." President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club |
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9/26/08 4:05:57 PM#65
My opinion about what is a "fact", is Irrelevant. Facts are facts (as a matter of fact!). Um, look at your sig. My statement put in another way: "It’s a fact, that it is your opinion, that this game is a winner (Not saying your opinion is wrong)." If you don’t understand that, I can't help you, no one can. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.
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9/26/08 4:29:55 PM#66
Originally posted by whisperwynd Your analogy is incorrect as far as showing what you're trying to say, though I know what you mean. You can't equate a dedicated site for one thing out there to a section of a forum for a game here on Mmorpg. This site is dedicated to the whole mmo genre, not a specific game. If you had used a general motorcycle forum site, then your point is parallel. Also look at your demographics for age group, I seriously doubt you'll find the same range of lower aged members in the Harley Davidson forums as you would in videogames. That's just common sense. I do agree that, if you like what you play, and even come here to discuss your pov, you can recognize those that are fair and those that just like to get a rise out of others. If you want to argue, just make sure it's out of fun, and not take it seriously. You hate trolls? Have fun with them...fanbois? have fun with them too, however you find it funny. Never take the argument seriously or you'll always fight a losing battle. No matter what you quote or however logical (to you) you make your posts, they'll believe what want, and isn't that what we all are entitled to?! <bows and leaves the podium>
My analogy was neither correct or incorrect. There was no right or wrong to it, only a value judgement about whether it illustrated my point or not. You are only picking on details based on the assumption that my example was a Harley Davidson Website being refered to, not a motorcycle fan web site with a Harley Davidson forum I was using as a point of reference. Objectively speaking we could all benefit from clearer examples, but since my point did come across for you, I think your concern is a relatively minor one. I am a bit different from many people in that I do take my fun seriously. I put effort into my enjoyment instead of just waiting passively for it to happen. That is perhaps why I find that I enjoy playing WAR. I am willing to give it a shot, and see what kind of return in fun I get for my time. Here's another example if the motorcycle one was inept at getting my point across: the grumpy, socially awkward child who gets pissed after buying a pack of Pokemon trading cards, opening the package, and the fun doesn't happen immediately. This is because they have no one to play with, and they know nothing about the game, just that they like the Yugi Oh trading card game. Next day at school they start crying to all their classmates, "You're stupid for liking the Pokemon trading card game, I bought it, and it sucks big time, obviously the Yugi Oh game is superior because it has the googlely eyed dragon card and Pokemon doesn't. Look at a Yugi Oh card, they are all glossy, and Pokemon cards have a matte finish, more proof Pokemon is inferior! I didn't have fun, and I'm a trading card expert." When his classmates extend a hand of understanding, and offer to show him what the Pokemon trading card game is all about, the response they get is, " I don't want to play or trade Pokemon cards with you, You all suck!". How is anything he says here constructive for his classmates, or a valid objective reason for everyone not to play Pokemon. It's all very subjective as to what each person considers fun. I know what I enjoy, and I know how to get my enjoyment out of the products I buy. I'm also not silly enough to expect a single game to last me for 4-8 years worth of enjoyment. When I stop finding myself enjoying the game, I look at what's out there, and move on to try something else. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I hope people can understand what I am trying to say here. I hope this helps.
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9/26/08 4:53:00 PM#67
This is pretty much all this site has become. Arguing over every MMO and saying it either sucks or rocks. No discussion about the game other than why it sucks or rocks. No meaningful threads. Just page after page of idiots saying "nuh uh" and "uh huh". MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR |
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9/26/08 4:57:21 PM#68
How did we get into Morality/Ethics and philosophy from a OP that is more geared to saying "Hey WAR rules and you bashers Drool" ? To the Philosophers: Whether or not you all consider this fact or opinion it doesnt matter, because in the end the individual reading is the only one who can constatute what is fact or fiction. We may provide information however we cannot force anyones mind to succumb to our thoughts. To the OP: /agree To the Trolls" Hah Hah Hah our game is better then yours. Now seriously: WAR is a success in the eyes of many. Does it really matter what naysayers say? Ofcourse not, because we all know at the end of the day, were having fun playing scenarios, joining groups and defeating PQ's and having a blast taking over the enemies capital. Its sad to see even a few gamers are not able to enjoy this great feeling, being apart of something bigger, being apart of Warhammer.
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9/26/08 4:59:44 PM#69
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Uhmmm....whaaaa? I just asked as to WHAT you were referring to as "a fact." Your previous "that's a fact" post made no sense, because it wasn't clear as to WHAT you were stating is "a fact.?" So are you saying here that your opinion that Warhammer is a "winner" will possibly later be confirmed as a "fact," once that is proven or verified? Because if that's what you're saying, I completely agree. However, if you're stating that "Warhammer is a WINNER" without dispute, as we type, then I would argue that it is the word "winner" that needs definition, not the word "fact." I would also then assert that "Warhammer is a WINNER" is therefore simply an opinion, and not YET a "fact." What does it take to "prove" Warhammer a "winner?" 500k subs continually over the course of a year....would that make it a "winner?" Is it a "winner" because you really like it a lot, and therefore it's a "winner" to YOU (making it an opinion, not fact)? Or are you determining this "fact" by some other ethereal means to which none of us are privy? See, you're still using terms that are entirely subjective here and then throwing in the word "fact" as if to substantiate something that is in no measureable way proven, as of yet. But, whatever floats your boat. If YOU don't understand THAT, I can't help you...no one can. /rollseyes President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club |
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9/26/08 5:02:52 PM#70
i wasn't dissapointed by war, though i wasn't expcting much. the launch seemed smooth although we missed it because the ebgames merchant insisted we didn't need game cards for the first month.
it's more than a little bit grindy, especially when the queues aren't instant. if you can stay in rvr scenarios constantly the levels go fast, but i've noticed at tier 2 on my server the squeues are longer than 10 minutes a piece. the balance seems a bit iffy, ranged dps sucks for both dps and survivability(dps is about even with tanks without the ability to hit through that armour- although even shadow warriors seem to do ok in group pvp, 1v1, forget it- at least up to tier2.)
destro seems to be stronger overall at even levels for some reason, though this could just be early on. orks seems to simply tear ass without being stoppable.
pq's are a cool idea, but suck when there's no on doing them, they really rely on a large group of players being on the same page of progression at the same time, something my 3rd reroll has failed me in. the attack speed is horribly slow, and they oughta give you enough ap to at least use skills on multiple mobs without running out. although it doesn't seem to matter because once you've run out all you need to do is wait a split second longer than usual to use a skill anyway.
i'm still waiting for aion but this might tide me over, depending on how my current reroll as a swordmaster goes. i even bought another wow time card, due to the similairity between a bright wizard and a fire mage, but th efunnest thing about that game at this point is installing and setting up the awesome ui mods(i want to change all the textures/models to make it look like a giant robot game in mroe ways than just my ui) also this game needs sticky targeting. i hate how i seem to constantly deselect my targets just by mouse moving. KERPLAH! |
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In conclusion:
WAR - 1 Haters - 0
See you chumps in about a year when WAR is even more of a success. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c |
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9/26/08 5:14:44 PM#72
Originally posted by Satarious
I say both the fanbois and the haters equally lost this one, but meh. |
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9/26/08 5:14:51 PM#73
Originally posted by Satarious
LOL Calling a thing thus, of COURSE makes it so. President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club |
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9/26/08 5:14:56 PM#74
Originally posted by Satarious
fixed just because i have to conclude you're concluding my post on the previous page. it's a wow clone but not a bad one. it's grindy and the combat is slow, but it's less buggy than say, age of conan. i like leveling from pvp, but i hate when a single level makes such a huge difference in terms of who's going to win a random pvp encounter. so it's basically even. it doesn't suck as bad as aoc, but it's not as good as wow either. not that wow is good, or that aoc has a chance of being better than any given f2p mmo, but nonetheless. at least it's not wow. even if it might as well be. KERPLAH! |
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9/26/08 5:19:04 PM#75
Originally posted by dirtyklingon
fixed just because i have to conclude you're concluding my post on the previous page. it's a wow clone but not a bad one. it's grindy and the combat is slow, but it's less buggy than say, age of conan. i like leveling from pvp, but i hate when a single level makes such a huge difference in terms of who's going to win a random pvp encounter. so it's basically even. it doesn't suck as bad as aoc, but it's not as good as wow either. not that wow is good, or that aoc has a chance of being better than any given f2p mmo, but nonetheless. at least it's not wow. even if it might as well be.
If you consider WAR a WOW clone, I hate to admit it, but sounds like WOW has basically taken over your gamer sense. The two games have some similarities but in no way are they even close to clones. Now if you said WAR was alot like DAOC id say sure, the game mechanics are very close together with a few enhancements. But in no way is any game on the market a CLONE of any other. get this through your wowheads.
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9/26/08 5:23:11 PM#76
To the OP.
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9/26/08 5:26:12 PM#77
Originally posted by Wakygreek
If you consider WAR a WOW clone, I hate to admit it, but sounds like WOW has basically taken over your gamer sense. The two games have some similarities but in no way are they even close to clones. Now if you said WAR was alot like DAOC id say sure, the game mechanics are very close together with a few enhancements. But in no way is any game on the market a CLONE of any other. get this through your wowheads.
if you don't think war is a wow clone, you haven't played wow i guess. it moves eats and breathes like wow. the ui is basically identical with native frame support. the story is identical, though war has 25 years of books to fall back on +1 for wow being a war clone i guess.
wow is less linear i guess, less grindy until endgame.
the attack speed is slower in war, and you can't kite. that's pretty much the differences. the classes are bread and butter rpg archetypes, except the ranged dps are not anymore dps than the tanks.
there's even three trees for each class to further customize their characters.
and a couple of extra features, but it's hardly anything special. moral and tactics???
what this game has that really is fresh is pq's and maybe leveling through pvp, although i'm sure other games have had this before, i just haven't played those. KERPLAH! |
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9/26/08 5:55:34 PM#78
It's quite obvious you know very little of MMOs outside WoW, or that you're merely trying to say that all MMOs are pretty much clones of each other, which is just as true/false for games of any other genre being clones of each other. You pick out a few things from the game that are similar to WoW, rather than looking at WAR and MMOs in general. The global cooldown system and moddable UI is like WoW, but this is just a minor part of the game. The key features of the game's design is based on Dark Age of Camelot, and most things it has in common with WoW it has in common with most MMOs in general, and not something WoW can claim to be first at in any way. Note that in Dark Age of Camelot, you also had quests and ability hotbars. If we were to use your definition, then WoW is a Dark Age of Camelot clone. And basically all MMOs are clones of each other, which they pretty much are. If you'd known anything about Dark Age of Camelot, you'd see clearly that WAR is a lot closer to that game than it is to WoW. WoW is more of an EverQuest clone - an MMO which at its heart is pretty much all about PvE raiding. I agree WAR is a lot less grindy than WoW throughout the game, which makes leveling a lot more endurable, as you can do all sorts of stuff rather than grind mobs endlessly trying to get that one quest drop, or spending ages flying around talking to NPCs. Interestingly, Dark Age of Camelot classes also had advancement trees. Like in WoW and virtually any other MMO in existence, WAR careers fall into fantasy archetypes, although they have some nice innovations for many of the class mechanics and abilities. It's mostly improvement of stuff we've seen before, which works quite well. But everything depends on your point of view. It's fine if you consider WAR a WoW clone, but then you'd also have to consider WoW a Dark Age of Camelot clone, that Crysis is a Duke Nukem 3D clone and that StarCraft 2 is a Dune 2 clone. After all, WoW classes fall into standard RPG archetypes, just like Dark Age of Camelot. Within each career you can customize your class through various specializations, just like Dark Age of Camelot. You have a lot of abilities that can be used by clicking on a hotbar UI element or by hotkeys, just like Dark Age of Camelot. There's quests and mob grinding, just like in Dark Age of Camelot. There's macros and you can move with WASD, just like in Dark Age of Camelot. There's PvE raids and there's faction-based PvP, just like in Dark Age of Camelot. Oh, and these things exist in multiple MMOs pre-dating WoW. Basically, WAR, like WoW, is an evolutionary game that doesn't bring much new to the genre that we haven't seen in previous MMOs already, with a couple of innovative features. WoW for example brought us the rogue combo system, global cooldown system and a class that can switch roles through shapeshifting (druids, although the implementation is flawed and isn't viable anyway - but the idea was innovative at the time), warrior rage and stance mechanic, instanced Battlegrounds (Dark Age of Camelot had battlegrounds, but they weren't instanced). WAR also has a few innovative things not seen before, like Public Quests, Warrior Priest/Disciple and Archmage/Shaman career mechanics, Living Cities and meaningful City Sieges and the Tome of Knowledge. Leveling through PvP isn't new. You could level through PvP in Dark Age of Camelot as well - and at one point you could do it in WoW too. I don't know about linearity. Generally in WoW you follow a pattern through the zones, with possibility of deciding the order yourself at certain points. But you can do that in WAR as well, so not much difference here. |
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9/26/08 6:07:54 PM#79
so it's a daoc clone. although i haven't played it and wow is the current standard by which all mmo's are judged (and unfortunately so far this year mostly found lacking).
i played l2 for a few years before i went to wow, and i consider aoc a nwn2 clone.
also wall of text and non point ftw.
+ i haven't seen any innovations in terms of game mechanics, outside of the bw hurting themselves through combustion, sword dance of swordmaster. maybe i'm missing somethign here, but all the skills could be from just about any other mmo, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. wow wasn't anything new by any means when it came out either, as far as i know- by the time i played it, it was the same ol thing.
it's a wow clone because, as stated earlier, wow is the gold/lead standard for mmo's in general, and it looks/feels/breathes like wow, but slower combat.
don't mistake me for someone that wants a mousetrap designed from the ground up that doesn't resemble previous moustraps at all. i just want a better mousetrap, which i'm not sure war is. imho, it's the same mousetrap with a new coat of paint. that doesn't necessarily suit it. should've gone with the electric blue instead of the slate blue imo. :P KERPLAH! |
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9/26/08 6:14:37 PM#80
Well I don't think your post was a wall of text, just a bit uninformed. But it seems like you got my point. To put things more simply: WoW is an EverQuest clone, while WAR is a Dark Age of Camelot clone. Both EverQuest and Dark Age of Camelot have similar roots and share many similar designs because of that. Both are great games that move the genre forward, but at a steady pace without re-inventing the genre in any way. Like Blizzard did with World of WarCraft, Mythic is playing it safe by using well-established design used by the games they were inspired from, adding a few new things and getting rid of a few crap things. |
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