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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Jacobs on GOA, Forums and Accountability

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101 posts found
  Moroth

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/06
Posts: 101

9/23/08 7:51:29 AM#41
Originally posted by Mirandel

It has always amazed me how fanboys can support any decision their favorite companies makes, no matter how terrible that decision sounds. ”No forums” is a cheap move. It is not only saves money for Mythica but this is the perfect way to avoid any responsibilities and in the same time keep "carrot on stick" on unofficial forums for customers. Developers can promise mountains of gold on those "unofficial" forums and diaries. And if anyone later asks "where are all those promises?" they can simply answer "you know, it was just a thoughts. Unofficial opinion". Perfect!

Expanded version of BG from WoW (as WAR is) is a fun game, but Mark's bragging reminds me of Brad McQuaid.


 

Avoid responsibility?  First how do they avoid responsibility when you cancel?  2nd, how does an official forum make them accept resposibility?

  Moroth

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/06
Posts: 101

9/23/08 7:54:35 AM#42
Originally posted by Tachikoma00
Originally posted by Moroth

No game company is obligated to provid a forum.  There are other forums available that get monitored and in-game tools to provide feedback.  Most forums contain excessive abusive feedback that gets repeated thousands of times.  If you're unhappy with the game you can express your opinion to them directly, the fact that they're not giving you a tool to share it with the rest of the world is fine.

 

Perhaps when the MMO community matures a little and learns some manners in regards to providing constructive posts and not polls on who's leaving at the end of the month they'll provide official forums.  Till then I can't blame em.

 

The fact that there are so many posts here saying it's a cop-out to not give you a place to abuse them proves this point.  Otherwise why would it be considered a cop-out?

 

This response is such a joke. We aren't dissatisfied with not having an area to "abuse," we're dissatisfied with not having an "official" area to discuss this game we love with the official development team or PR heads.

There is a lot of garbage on the official WoW forums. But guess what? There's infinitely more positive and productive posts that outweigh the negative ones. Not only that, but there's tons of information about the game centralized into one forum. I don't want to have to shoot to two or three different fan sites for an MMO just to find discussion on my specific class/race selection. The companies who developed and produced the game should to provide the necessary hubs to discuss their creation. Not having that because they fear having "their feelings hurt by some forum trolls" is a complete cop-out. No way around it.

I see their devs on other forums... They're not exactly hiding....  They were also very clear upfront their would be no forums, we knew this for years and their other MMO doeesn't have them so how can you be dissapointed?
 

  Moroth

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/06
Posts: 101

9/23/08 7:55:20 AM#43
Originally posted by Moroth
Originally posted by Tachikoma00
Originally posted by Moroth

No game company is obligated to provid a forum.  There are other forums available that get monitored and in-game tools to provide feedback.  Most forums contain excessive abusive feedback that gets repeated thousands of times.  If you're unhappy with the game you can express your opinion to them directly, the fact that they're not giving you a tool to share it with the rest of the world is fine.

 

Perhaps when the MMO community matures a little and learns some manners in regards to providing constructive posts and not polls on who's leaving at the end of the month they'll provide official forums.  Till then I can't blame em.

 

The fact that there are so many posts here saying it's a cop-out to not give you a place to abuse them proves this point.  Otherwise why would it be considered a cop-out?

 

This response is such a joke. We aren't dissatisfied with not having an area to "abuse," we're dissatisfied with not having an "official" area to discuss this game we love with the official development team or PR heads.

There is a lot of garbage on the official WoW forums. But guess what? There's infinitely more positive and productive posts that outweigh the negative ones. Not only that, but there's tons of information about the game centralized into one forum. I don't want to have to shoot to two or three different fan sites for an MMO just to find discussion on my specific class/race selection. The companies who developed and produced the game should to provide the necessary hubs to discuss their creation. Not having that because they fear having "their feelings hurt by some forum trolls" is a complete cop-out. No way around it.

I see their devs on other forums... They're not exactly hiding....  They were also very clear upfront there would be no forums, we knew this for years and there other MMO doesn't have them so how can you be dissapointed?
 


 

  JaedoDrax

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/08
Posts: 2

9/23/08 8:53:52 AM#44

I guess here is a good a place as any...  Maybe you can ask him why he felt it was necessary to cut off any customers that bought the CE, when we are still being told that the product might ship either yesterday or today.   

Nothing says fail, quite like telling some of your hard core customers that you don't deserve some leeway because of a problem way outside our control. 

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6460

9/23/08 9:30:59 AM#45

I can understand the no forums rule.  It takes a significant investment to police them.  Problem with that is that DAoC self destructed because of that.  They had a few people monitoring the outside forums and did not listen to the problems these people encountered.

Mythic did about everything in it's power to dissuade the playerbase from playing DAoC through ignoring the problems discussed on the outside forums.  Let us hope they listen better on the outside forums this time around.  I personally still don't trust them to do so.

  LiquidWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 516

Currently Playing:
Mortal Online
Final Fantasy XIII
Starcraft II

9/23/08 9:57:23 AM#46

Forums...

Gross things mostly. The more I look at places like MMORPG or "Official" forums at other games...

The more I see the mob... the trash... the types of gamers no one wants in their guild or community.

Certainly there are good posts, good people, and good questions... it's why I wouldn't condone a complete obliteration of the population and a fresh start. One good person is enough.

But official forums? No.

Forums used to be something fans did to help foster a community. To collect like-minded people together who wanted to promote a game. Game-companies saw this and offered to host them for the players so that they didn't have to do it themselves.

That has changed. It is now a crib for babies to whine and give their complaints. Though quality community support and discussion still exists, the horrid amount of crying and complaining... the threats, the requests for nerfs...

the trash!

It is just more than anyone would ever want to manage. No... the day the community stopped policing itself is the day the "official" forums were no longer useful. This way Warhammer Alliance and other places can handle the trash and the devs can pick which forums they think help the game the most.

It is too costly and I never want to see an "Official" forum again.

  QuinColds

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 18

9/23/08 10:08:27 AM#47
Originally posted by LiquidWolf

Forums...

Gross things mostly. The more I look at places like MMORPG or "Official" forums at other games...

The more I see the mob... the trash... the types of gamers no one wants in their guild or community.

Certainly there are good posts, good people, and good questions... it's why I wouldn't condone a complete obliteration of the population and a fresh start. One good person is enough.

But official forums? No.

Forums used to be something fans did to help foster a community. To collect like-minded people together who wanted to promote a game. Game-companies saw this and offered to host them for the players so that they didn't have to do it themselves.

That has changed. It is now a crib for babies to whine and give their complaints. Though quality community support and discussion still exists, the horrid amount of crying and complaining... the threats, the requests for nerfs...

the trash!

It is just more than anyone would ever want to manage. No... the day the community stopped policing itself is the day the "official" forums were no longer useful. This way Warhammer Alliance and other places can handle the trash and the devs can pick which forums they think help the game the most.

It is too costly and I never want to see an "Official" forum again.

 

While I agree with a lot of what you say, the lack of an official forum has me voting with my credit card already, as in not even buying the game.  While the AOC official forums were some of the worst I have ever seen, lurking on there showed me the game was not ready and I would wait 6 or 8 months before I bought it to give them time to work out the kinks. For people, and I think most long term MMO players, the first thing I do before buying a game is have a look at the feed back on the O forums and how the company handles the feed back, positve or negative. 

I hate the nerf this and that posts that show on a lot of forums. And mostly it is just crying. Because of this I usually stay away from "general" or class forums. Bug report forums, customer service forums, suggstion forums, and most specifically Realm forums are where I look. These tell me the stability of the game, how the company helps people with technical issues and what the community feels like in the realms.

With out these resources there is no way I am handing them my money.

  Valentina

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/28/06
Posts: 1651

9/23/08 12:22:36 PM#48
Originally posted by Stradden
Originally posted by Yunbei

Remarkable that he really compares us, the customers, to a Tyrannosaurus. There is no excuse for the lack of official forums. Period.

 

He's very clearly not describing every customer as a dangerous dinosaur. In the context of what was said, it's clear that he was talking about the specific people who express their frustrations in abusive and threatening ways.

You don't agree with the call, that's fine, but you're taking that statement way out of context.

 

How cute.

 

I'm kind of glad they don't have official forums, go to Warhammer Alliance and you will see the devs posting every day, multiple times a day. If it's feedback you want to give, than use the tool inside the game.

  Tripod

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/04
Posts: 8

"Be right, or be happy."

To all men

9/23/08 1:00:42 PM#49

I don't see what the hubbub is about. If you, as a potential customer, don't like the idea of not having an official forum, then you have but one clear cut and well defined option...Do not purchase the game

  teddyboy420

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/04
Posts: 382

Blessed are the forgetful: for they get the better even of their blunders - Friedrich Nietzsche

9/23/08 1:20:49 PM#50

You guys are taking it too far comparing Mark to Brad McQuaid. First of all, Mark comes off confident, but I wouldn't say arrogant, second, and the main difference between Mark and Brad is that Mark has actually delivered on his promises and has the managerial skills to see his vision through to the end.

Also, the lack of documentation on the Website or Herald is kind of lame, but the manual included with the game was, surprisingly in this day and age, very informative and described all of the game systems well enough.

While I don't support the no official forum policy, I must say that the devs and community people @ Mythic do do a great job of communicating w/ their customers on the fansite forums. In fact, they post quite often and regularly, the only downside is you have to scour a couple sites to actually find said posts. Mythic does however, and this is very surprising, respond to the feedback submitted through the form on the Herald. When you put everything together, there probably IS as much communication going on between the community and the devs as there would be on an official forum. But I still think they should have one, centralized location for the community to get together and discuss things pertaining to the game.

Yeah, the WoW and AoC forums are perfect examples of how forums can degrade into cesspools that aren't useful for much. But then look @ the EQ2 and/or LoTRO forums, they are perfect examples of official forums done correctly, there is a constant flow of communication not only between player and dev, but between player and player as well. IMHO, if the forums are properly moderated they can be a HUGE boon to the community, and the positives far outwieghs the negatives. Again, Mark is only focusing on the negatives of official forums, he needs to go and look at the EQ2 and LoTRO forums and see how well things flow there.

  Deivos

Elite Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1700

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

9/23/08 1:21:47 PM#51

Really the only reason they're here complaining about not having a forum seems to be because they can't complain there.

 

The only thing I can agree with is the idea that the O. Forums gives outside people the chance to see how the game is progressing.

 

But ya know what? Forums are slower to create changes than petitions have ever been. Ya know why? Because it's easier to sift through a database that can be checked and tossed if it's trash than having sift through a list of threads and then lists of posts for the worth while ones.

 

Not to mention, the devs as has been said actively talk to the players. It may not be an official forum, but how are the results any different? Players complain and ask questions and the devs respond just the same.

 

Really, there is no reason for the official forums currently because it would be a drain on resources that would only increase costs and delay progress on development and bug fixes because the devs would be dealing with more extraneous crap that they then have to weigh the value of because inevitably there's going to be more than one opinion from more than one large group of players on how to 'fix' something and they can't please both, which means players will just continuously complain more and more as they are known to.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  Moodah

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/08
Posts: 181

9/23/08 2:29:57 PM#52
Originally posted by damian7 

 

so, all this communication from mythic... how is that helping me if i'm looking for technical support help?  if i'm wanting to see what all guilds are recruiting for a specific faction on a specific realm?  how does that help me, as a customer, if i'm looking for player created guides?  if i'm having those technical problems and i'd like to know that someone isn't pulling my leg or trying to do harmful things to my box?

that's great that YOU, as a customer, appreciate random podcasts from a jolly developer during beta. how exactly does that help the rest of us customers with any of the above?

can you tell me where i can find all of the above in one convenient location, where i can rest assured that i'm not being led astray?

if not, then it's complete rubbish.

 

communication my hindquarters.  i re-read the interview and jacobs doesn't say that a certain part of his paying customer are dinosaurs, i don't even see it implied that he's referring to just a part of the paying public.

 

You are kidding me ...

You know ... ingame is a good place to look for a guild ... and serious ones usually have their own sites where you check out what they do and apply ... I never ever looked for a guild through official forums and I was a member of one or two rather decent ones.

You are talking like you are browsing the net just jumping from official site to official site because you are paranoid that someone will do "harmful things to your computer" ... ever heard of firewalls and stuff? ... you expect me to believe that when you look for a piece of info on the net - lets say its an AMD processor, you only go to the official AMD site and read whats there. You never use Google for anything you look for on the intenet because there are evil people prowling about, waiting to do harmful things ... I find it extremely hard to believe that. Net is one big convenient location you can find anything you need ... especialy about an internet game.

  User Deleted
9/23/08 2:35:23 PM#53
Originally posted by Stradden
Originally posted by Yunbei

Remarkable that he really compares us, the customers, to a Tyrannosaurus. There is no excuse for the lack of official forums. Period.

 

He's very clearly not describing every customer as a dangerous dinosaur. In the context of what was said, it's clear that he was talking about the specific people who express their frustrations in abusive and threatening ways.

You don't agree with the call, that's fine, but you're taking that statement way out of context.

 

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  Stevon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/03
Posts: 173

9/23/08 4:19:25 PM#54

What it boils down to is that the lack of official forums are:

 

1.  Cost cutting (no forum moderator staff)

2.  Damage control, in advance.  It's obvious that without official forums problems with the game voiced by current customers will have less effect on new purchasers.

 

Frankly I think that any game that doesn't have official forums should provide a full refund option for the game purchase if not satisfied.

 

In any case it's not the abuse they are worried about, saying that is just spin doctoring the real reason, which is to minimize the visibility of bad customer feedback.

  natsuki888

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/08
Posts: 11

9/23/08 4:35:38 PM#55

I thought it was rather fitting that the guy said he was happy the auction house made it into the game before launch.

 

Considering that feature is broken in ways that make the simplest search and refined searches produce as many or more unrelated items as there are items that match criteria.

 

Also, the dude who thinks Mr. Mythic Mouthpiece  is as balls and glory giving straight answers knowing not many people will like them.... fanboi much? Where did he ever say anything to the effect that Mythic can and will sell unreliable and unfinished products because it simply does not matter when their best estimate says it will show a profit.

 

Of course I cancelled my account already and I will sell it for more than i payed in. We all learned a long time ago that this industry is all about the hustle ( looking at you Brad ).

  todeswulf

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/07
Posts: 750

9/23/08 6:07:44 PM#56

Honestly...no matter what is said here the only reason folks want  official forums is to read about or participate in the Troll train. They find disatisfaction in fan forums cause the mod can ban you without catching flak for losing a customer. 

Like it or not Offical forums are becoming a thing of the past, it's no huge secret that Blizzard is jobbing out all their forums (including WoW) to Activision, and activision forums are kinda like what Turbine use to have back in the early Days of AoC, you submit a comment or question and they decide if  it's worthy to be posted.

I know why Blizzard is doing this they have found that devlopers just can't handle that kind of abuse over a period of time, look at what has happend just at blizzard in the last four years  Caydeim transfered to another dept, Tseric went on a rampage and got fired, and just recently Jeff Kaplan went on a drunken (well who knows if he was drunk...but some folks over at  Death and Taxes says he was) Rampage and perma banned a crap load of accounts.....he didn't get the boot, but some are saying that he is moving on to greener pastures once WoTLK ships.  I can well inagine once Blizzard turns their fourms into the internets version of Dear Abby, other devlopers wil follow suit.....SOE has already said that DC universe will have fan forums only to build a sense of "community"

Like it or not it's all going the way of Disco.

  Baio2k

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/07
Posts: 168

9/23/08 9:27:38 PM#57

Mythic has done a poor job in regards to allowing feedback and player opinion to be not even just heard but broadcast.  The bug submission and feedback reports available in game are shockingly limiting, to the point of only allowing you 1 full sentance to voice your concern/ problem/ opinion. 

I understand the desire to not have official forums, but this whole "let the credit cards do the talking" bit is pretty lame, it's really just saying that they dont  give a fuck about player feedback, and ways to improve the experience, and will only respond to the playerbase when they leave in masse, making the "Why did you cancel" box there most relied on source of  feedback information.  That's fucking lame.

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16027

9/23/08 9:41:56 PM#58
Originally posted by ronan32
Originally posted by Lethality

 He really has his head in the dirt.  He will come around and be eating his words.

 

 

 

you have no idea what you're talking about. mythic certainly know what they're talking about and communication with the players is amazing..you don't see blizzard taking time out for stuff like this. Guys like mark are the type of people that deserve 10 million subs and not those cheats at blizzard.

Eh, the communication could be even more amazing if they had a forum... At least a technical one for technical issues.

And saying Blizzard don't deserve their customers is stupid. If  WAR deserves it, we'll see a lot of players comming it's way too in the next year but Wow did bring in most of it's players to the MMO market. And I say if because we really havn't seen WARs full potential this early.

And no, I don't agree with Lethality but I think it's a misstake to not have a forum, whatever they think of "Mob mentality" or not. The biggest thing with a forum is to help it's players but it also gives the devs a chanse to talk directly to the community.

  damian7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/06
Posts: 4514

why must i be nice to people that have no clue, are lying, or are just stupid?

9/23/08 9:49:52 PM#59
Originally posted by DarkPony

Sadly he only focusses on the negative bits of having official forums. : /

I for one always enjoyed the interaction in especially the realm forums; people organizing events, making art, posting rl pictures, stating their respect for certain skillful oponents, getting people to join your guild, publishing their guild's latest achievements and yes, making new friends.

I hope he'll reconsider his stance on this.

The negative issues he describes can be delt with by mods, simple as that.

Aye, it costs them a little more money but it gives the community one central board for out of game interaction which is to me, an important thing to any mmo.

Besides, they shouldn't be afraid that the posters will flame WAR to death on their hometurf like on the AoC forums since it is a kick ass game anyway and they have always been open an honest with us.


 

 

welp, according to jacobs, if you don't like that they don't have official forums -- cancel your account.

 

reminds me of smed, and he'll get as much of my money and ESPECIALLY my loving commentary as smed does.   certain people should not be allowed to speak on behalf of their company. ever.

could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?

  damian7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/06
Posts: 4514

why must i be nice to people that have no clue, are lying, or are just stupid?

9/23/08 9:56:30 PM#60
Originally posted by Baio2k

Mythic has done a poor job in regards to allowing feedback and player opinion to be not even just heard but broadcast.  The bug submission and feedback reports available in game are shockingly limiting, to the point of only allowing you 1 full sentance to voice your concern/ problem/ opinion. 

I understand the desire to not have official forums, but this whole "let the credit cards do the talking" bit is pretty lame, it's really just saying that they dont  give a fuck about player feedback, and ways to improve the experience, and will only respond to the playerbase when they leave in masse, making the "Why did you cancel" box there most relied on source of  feedback information.  That's fucking lame.


 

just fyi... you hit the "cancel subscription" button, and then you see "your subscription has been cancelled, playable until the end of paid time" or some such verbage.

they don't give enough of a crap about your opinion TO ask why you cancelled your subscription.  unless they have changed it in the past 10 hours.

could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?

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