Originally posted by Liranan

I read most of the thread but realised on page 2 that OP is just trolling for the fun of it. The fact that he has no real argument and just repeats himself over and over again as if it makes his points more valid is testimony of his non-arguments and trolling. Well done, 12 pages of troll by OP who pretends he actually knows anything.

 

Let's take your ladder concept.

you are born

you learn how to crawl

you learn how to walk

you learn how to say a few words (the order of walking and talking can be changed)

you learn how to use the potty

you learn how to use a spoon and fork

you learn how to dress yourself

 

As you climb the ladder of the greatest MMO ever made, called life, you gain experience, you learn things, you earn credits (grades at school for example) and you earn the right to progress or not to progress to the next level (next grade/class/promotion at work).

So what wa OP's trolling about ladders again? Nothing other than trolling? As I said, 12 pages of troll, well done.

 

P.S.

You don't like the ladder concept? There are ways to exit this great MMO called life.

Thats a terrible comparison. In life you are not funneled in a particular direction. You can go anywhere and do anything if you put your mind to it. Also in real life once you reach level 18 (lower for some, higher for others) you can go to areas populated with anyone of any level. In fact you can do it at level 10 if you want.......or maybe even level 5. You can even go adventuring and do quests with someone who is level 80 if you want to.

The OP's post is a LOT more intelligent than what you just came up with. I think its you who has no real argument and is pretending to actually know something. You think the design of WAR is like the design of Life? LMAO! What a joke!!!!

Your post is nothing more than a bog standard "Your a troll" post. Yeah thanks for your input Mr Genius.

Originally posted by neonwire

Also in real life once you reach level 18 (lower for some, higher for others) you can go to areas populated with anyone of any level. In fact you can do it at level 10 if you want.......or maybe even level 5. You can even go adventuring and do quests with someone who is level 80 if you want to.

Pure genius. Thanks for the smile :)

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Cereo

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by aurick The OP's point is very well taken.  But is it realistic in today's market?

Historically, sandbox games do not do very well.  Some can sustain themselves with a small to moderate population, and keep growing over time.  (EVE, for example.) 

 

How is EVE a sandbox or not as the OP put it ladder based? It is just cleverly hidden but EVE is a ladder as all MMOs are. Just because there is no character level does not make EVE special. In EVE the ladder is standing with Corporations, that is essentially a level. In EVE your level is also defined by the amount of time you trained which translates to experience. You can not train battlecruiser before you learned spaceship command IV and Cruiser III, it is a ladder as all other games are.

Just had to comment on this, EVE is a very good MMO, but it is the same as all the others in terms of ladder or linear progression.

 

Thats a really dumb statement. How is EVE a linear game when you can go ANYWHERE at any "level"? The game doesnt restrict you based on how skilled your pilot is so in fact it is nothing like the other mmos at all. There are indeed ladders of progression but the game does not restrict how you choose to play the game based on those ladders. In EVE you can fly and survive anywhere if you are a wise pilot and know what you are doing.

You fail.

 

It was pointed out already but you can do  the same in WAR, you go to any Tier you want in any area. You will just die in a lot of them because you're not strong enough. Its the same in EvE, you can't waltz into 0.0 right off the bat in the game and waltz right back out. And you already admitted it IS a progression ladder system, just like every game is.

I used to listen to what you used to say neon, but right now you're making that pretty hard to respect even reading what you are trolling here.

 

Yeah except that in WAR each tier is designed for players of a specific level range and anyone lower than that range WILL die but in EVE it is a lot more open than that. You get players of varying degrees of skill flying in 0.0 space and you also cannot neccessarily tell how skillfull they are as they dont have a single number attached to them which denotes how pwerful they are (eg my level 20 spaceship beats your level 10 spaceship just because its got a bigger number). Your choice of ship, the focus of your skills and the selection of modules that you outfit your ship with can determine whether you win or lose a fight. Its possible to defeat a more experienced pilot in this way. The same however cannot be said for WAR. A level 20 player will always defeat a level 10 player no matter what you decide to do.

Yes EVE has a progression ladder system in terms of its skill points BUT the game does not have zones that are aimed at characters with a specific number of skillpoints. It doesnt funnel you like a rat in a maze like WAR does.

So no its NOT the same as EVE actually. Not even close. In fact its glaringly obvious that this is the case so how come you cant see it?

Now that I've just crushed your argument does that mean that I have earned your respect back (lol) or do you still think I'm just trolling by pointing out a fact?

The entire design of Eve is based upon it being very very broad and purposely avoiding extremely deep and involved ladders of anything.  There are a few exception like dreadnaughts and such.  But those exceptions are almost always extremely specialzied things that you rarely see or have a use for.

That is just a fact.  If you don't believe it go read various posts by the devs.

However it is slightly wrong to say that WAR does not have some aspects of Eve.  WAR is fundamentally a vertiacal rather than laterl progression game.

However WAR, unlike WoW and other games like it, does have some loadout ability similar to Eve ship loadout. in its Tactics.  Tactics are significant.  By level 40 you get 5 or more and they are pretty big boosts.  You can swap the tactic loadout combination you have 5 seconds after each fight.

Just like an Eve pilot can swap out a frigate for a cruiser.

Anyway there is nothing wrong with lateral or vertical progression.  They both have good points and bad points.  WAR is definitely a vertical progression game.  But I am glad they have signficiant lateral-type loadout usage.

Originally posted by Lughsan

It is a ladder and about as inspired in design and implementation as one you can buy at Sears...

 

 

LOL ?  Aww so sweet i never knew aliens was watching us!

Originally posted by holonist

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Cereo

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by aurick The OP's point is very well taken.  But is it realistic in today's market?

Historically, sandbox games do not do very well.  Some can sustain themselves with a small to moderate population, and keep growing over time.  (EVE, for example.) 

 

How is EVE a sandbox or not as the OP put it ladder based? It is just cleverly hidden but EVE is a ladder as all MMOs are. Just because there is no character level does not make EVE special. In EVE the ladder is standing with Corporations, that is essentially a level. In EVE your level is also defined by the amount of time you trained which translates to experience. You can not train battlecruiser before you learned spaceship command IV and Cruiser III, it is a ladder as all other games are.

Just had to comment on this, EVE is a very good MMO, but it is the same as all the others in terms of ladder or linear progression.

 

Thats a really dumb statement. How is EVE a linear game when you can go ANYWHERE at any "level"? The game doesnt restrict you based on how skilled your pilot is so in fact it is nothing like the other mmos at all. There are indeed ladders of progression but the game does not restrict how you choose to play the game based on those ladders. In EVE you can fly and survive anywhere if you are a wise pilot and know what you are doing.

You fail.

 

It was pointed out already but you can do  the same in WAR, you go to any Tier you want in any area. You will just die in a lot of them because you're not strong enough. Its the same in EvE, you can't waltz into 0.0 right off the bat in the game and waltz right back out. And you already admitted it IS a progression ladder system, just like every game is.

I used to listen to what you used to say neon, but right now you're making that pretty hard to respect even reading what you are trolling here.

 

Yeah except that in WAR each tier is designed for players of a specific level range and anyone lower than that range WILL die but in EVE it is a lot more open than that. You get players of varying degrees of skill flying in 0.0 space and you also cannot neccessarily tell how skillfull they are as they dont have a single number attached to them which denotes how pwerful they are (eg my level 20 spaceship beats your level 10 spaceship just because its got a bigger number). Your choice of ship, the focus of your skills and the selection of modules that you outfit your ship with can determine whether you win or lose a fight. Its possible to defeat a more experienced pilot in this way. The same however cannot be said for WAR. A level 20 player will always defeat a level 10 player no matter what you decide to do.

Yes EVE has a progression ladder system in terms of its skill points BUT the game does not have zones that are aimed at characters with a specific number of skillpoints. It doesnt funnel you like a rat in a maze like WAR does.

So no its NOT the same as EVE actually. Not even close. In fact its glaringly obvious that this is the case so how come you cant see it?

Now that I've just crushed your argument does that mean that I have earned your respect back (lol) or do you still think I'm just trolling by pointing out a fact?

 

Since when the funneling its only done at area/map levels ?! Go compare a 3 million point account with a 70 mill one and then come back and tell me that the 3 mill one will win on a frigate fight ...

Yeah the 3 million sp pilot has a good chance of having his arse handed to him but its not guaranteed. It depends on how each pilot has trained and also on what other choices they have made. If both pilots are in a frigate then there are only a specific number of skills that each pilot can bring to bare on each other. Remember that there are only 5 levels to each skill and it doesnt take too long for a noob pilot to almost max out a set of skills and use all of them for a frigate. Each skill also usually only adds a 2% or 5% increase in that particular skill. So an experienced player can have 1000000000 million sp and yet when he is flying a frigate he will only be able to use a tiny portion of those skillpoints. The noob pilot will only have his 3 million sp but they will all be focused into one specific role (flying his frigate) so actually the difference wont be that massive.

So yeah here I am coming back and telling you that the noob pilot could still actually win.

In WAR however a player who is level 40 will always beat a level 10 player no matter what.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by taus01

My challange stands however, name me one MMO that is not character dependant progression. JUST ONE!

 

One game you say? So I only have to say the word of one game? OK do I win anything for crushing your challenge......

EVE

 

This thread is like a loose tooth.

 

Of course EVE is dependant on your character's progression, just like all games are.

 

Yeah except as I have described in a post just above this one, EVE doesnt restrict where you go based on the progress of your pilot. Sure you can go anywhere in WAR but you can only survive in zones designed for your level range. EVE is more free and open than that.

Sorry but the "progression ladder theory" just doesnt apply to EVE. You are confusing the progression of the players "level" with the design of the game. The design of WAR is that you have to play it in progressive stages......everyone starts in the "weak" area, then everyone moves to the next area and so on......rather like a set of rooms......once you are too big for one room you move to the next room.

EVE is nothing like that. You can go to any room you like and mingle with and fight against players of any level of skill......ao actually the way you play EVE is NOT dependant on the progress of your character.

You fail.

I can't go and successfully kill rats in 0.0 as soon as I start the game. I have to get some skills, some ISK and better ships before I can do that.

Sound similar to anything else?

Originally posted by Lughsan

It is a ladder and about as inspired in design and implementation as one you can buy at Sears...

 

 

So is life, when you going to stop playing that?

I don't play WAR but you guys really push the limits of intelligence.

Originally posted by onlinenow225

Can we get a close on this?  It is very obvious the OP just made this to make a giant flame bait topic.

He could have explained the exact same thing in a different way, with being less offensive.

Thats the only reason why I called him a troll.  He actually made some good points.  Which is the only reason why I didn't put him on my ignore list.  Right now I am chalking it up as inexperience or lack of social skills if its neither of these then he is a troll. 

Originally posted by holonist

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by holonist

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Cereo

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by aurick The OP's point is very well taken.  But is it realistic in today's market?

Historically, sandbox games do not do very well.  Some can sustain themselves with a small to moderate population, and keep growing over time.  (EVE, for example.) 

 

How is EVE a sandbox or not as the OP put it ladder based? It is just cleverly hidden but EVE is a ladder as all MMOs are. Just because there is no character level does not make EVE special. In EVE the ladder is standing with Corporations, that is essentially a level. In EVE your level is also defined by the amount of time you trained which translates to experience. You can not train battlecruiser before you learned spaceship command IV and Cruiser III, it is a ladder as all other games are.

Just had to comment on this, EVE is a very good MMO, but it is the same as all the others in terms of ladder or linear progression.

 

Thats a really dumb statement. How is EVE a linear game when you can go ANYWHERE at any "level"? The game doesnt restrict you based on how skilled your pilot is so in fact it is nothing like the other mmos at all. There are indeed ladders of progression but the game does not restrict how you choose to play the game based on those ladders. In EVE you can fly and survive anywhere if you are a wise pilot and know what you are doing.

You fail.

 

It was pointed out already but you can do  the same in WAR, you go to any Tier you want in any area. You will just die in a lot of them because you're not strong enough. Its the same in EvE, you can't waltz into 0.0 right off the bat in the game and waltz right back out. And you already admitted it IS a progression ladder system, just like every game is.

I used to listen to what you used to say neon, but right now you're making that pretty hard to respect even reading what you are trolling here.

 

Yeah except that in WAR each tier is designed for players of a specific level range and anyone lower than that range WILL die but in EVE it is a lot more open than that. You get players of varying degrees of skill flying in 0.0 space and you also cannot neccessarily tell how skillfull they are as they dont have a single number attached to them which denotes how pwerful they are (eg my level 20 spaceship beats your level 10 spaceship just because its got a bigger number). Your choice of ship, the focus of your skills and the selection of modules that you outfit your ship with can determine whether you win or lose a fight. Its possible to defeat a more experienced pilot in this way. The same however cannot be said for WAR. A level 20 player will always defeat a level 10 player no matter what you decide to do.

Yes EVE has a progression ladder system in terms of its skill points BUT the game does not have zones that are aimed at characters with a specific number of skillpoints. It doesnt funnel you like a rat in a maze like WAR does.

So no its NOT the same as EVE actually. Not even close. In fact its glaringly obvious that this is the case so how come you cant see it?

Now that I've just crushed your argument does that mean that I have earned your respect back (lol) or do you still think I'm just trolling by pointing out a fact?

 

Since when the funneling its only done at area/map levels ?! Go compare a 3 million point account with a 70 mill one and then come back and tell me that the 3 mill one will win on a frigate fight ...

 

Yeah the 3 million sp pilot has a good chance of having his arse handed to him but its not guaranteed. It depends on how each pilot has trained and also on what other choices they have made. If both pilots are in a frigate then there are only a specific number of skills that each pilot can bring to bare on each other. Remember that there are only 5 levels to each skill and it doesnt take too long for a noob pilot to almost max out a set of skills and use all of them for a frigate. Each skill also usually only adds a 2% or 5% increase in that particular skill. So an experienced player can have 1000000000 million sp and yet when he is flying a frigate he will only be able to use a tiny portion of those skillpoints. The noob pilot will only have his 3 million sp but they will all be focused into one specific role (flying his frigate) so actually the difference wont be that massive.

So yeah here I am coming back and telling you that the noob pilot could still actually win.

In WAR however a player who is level 40 will always beat a level 10 player no matter what.

Level 40 whatever comes at me , i shield bash him out of a cliff  , he dies . So yeah here i am coming back and telling you that the noob level 10 could still actually win .
 

See , i can do the same . Farfetched scenarios ftw btw!

No actually. Your idea is far fetched. Mine is an accurate description of what actually happens in the game.

So no you cant do the same.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Liranan

I read most of the thread but realised on page 2 that OP is just trolling for the fun of it. The fact that he has no real argument and just repeats himself over and over again as if it makes his points more valid is testimony of his non-arguments and trolling. Well done, 12 pages of troll by OP who pretends he actually knows anything.

 

Let's take your ladder concept.

you are born

you learn how to crawl

you learn how to walk

you learn how to say a few words (the order of walking and talking can be changed)

you learn how to use the potty

you learn how to use a spoon and fork

you learn how to dress yourself

 

As you climb the ladder of the greatest MMO ever made, called life, you gain experience, you learn things, you earn credits (grades at school for example) and you earn the right to progress or not to progress to the next level (next grade/class/promotion at work).

So what wa OP's trolling about ladders again? Nothing other than trolling? As I said, 12 pages of troll, well done.

 

P.S.

You don't like the ladder concept? There are ways to exit this great MMO called life.

 

Thats a terrible comparison. In life you are not funneled in a particular direction. You can go anywhere and do anything if you put your mind to it. Also in real life once you reach level 18 (lower for some, higher for others) you can go to areas populated with anyone of any level. In fact you can do it at level 10 if you want.......or maybe even level 5. You can even go adventuring and do quests with someone who is level 80 if you want to.

The OP's post is a LOT more intelligent than what you just came up with. I think its you who has no real argument and is pretending to actually know something. You think the design of WAR is like the design of Life? LMAO! What a joke!!!!

Your post is nothing more than a bog standard "Your a troll" post. Yeah thanks for your input Mr Genius.

Look who's trolling now? The ladder concept can't be applied to life? Maybe you should stop forum warrioring and see the world a little. Then go tell the people who live in the third world they're not being funneled in one direction.

Now you may stop trolling and gain some life experiences, your forum warrioring is weak.

Originally posted by Manchine

Originally posted by onlinenow225

Can we get a close on this?  It is very obvious the OP just made this to make a giant flame bait topic.

He could have explained the exact same thing in a different way, with being less offensive.

 

Thats the only reason why I called him a troll.  He actually made some good points.  Which is the only reason why I didn't put him on my ignore list.  Right now I am chalking it up as inexperience or lack of social skills if its neither of these then he is a troll. 

He made some good points and responded with a lack of respect to people who either used the repetitive troll statement (such as yourself) or an unintelligent comment. Neither of these respeonses required a polite and respectful answer.

I am chalking you up as inexperience or lack of thought and if its neither of these then you are a fanboy.

Originally posted by Liranan

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Liranan

I read most of the thread but realised on page 2 that OP is just trolling for the fun of it. The fact that he has no real argument and just repeats himself over and over again as if it makes his points more valid is testimony of his non-arguments and trolling. Well done, 12 pages of troll by OP who pretends he actually knows anything.

 

Let's take your ladder concept.

you are born

you learn how to crawl

you learn how to walk

you learn how to say a few words (the order of walking and talking can be changed)

you learn how to use the potty

you learn how to use a spoon and fork

you learn how to dress yourself

 

As you climb the ladder of the greatest MMO ever made, called life, you gain experience, you learn things, you earn credits (grades at school for example) and you earn the right to progress or not to progress to the next level (next grade/class/promotion at work).

So what wa OP's trolling about ladders again? Nothing other than trolling? As I said, 12 pages of troll, well done.

 

P.S.

You don't like the ladder concept? There are ways to exit this great MMO called life.

 

Thats a terrible comparison. In life you are not funneled in a particular direction. You can go anywhere and do anything if you put your mind to it. Also in real life once you reach level 18 (lower for some, higher for others) you can go to areas populated with anyone of any level. In fact you can do it at level 10 if you want.......or maybe even level 5. You can even go adventuring and do quests with someone who is level 80 if you want to.

The OP's post is a LOT more intelligent than what you just came up with. I think its you who has no real argument and is pretending to actually know something. You think the design of WAR is like the design of Life? LMAO! What a joke!!!!

Your post is nothing more than a bog standard "Your a troll" post. Yeah thanks for your input Mr Genius.

 

Look who's trolling now? The ladder concept can't be applied to life? Maybe you should stop forum warrioring and see the world a little. Then go tell the people who live in the third world they're not being funneled in one direction.

 

Now you may stop trolling and gain some life experiences, your forum warrioring is weak.

HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Thats brilliant!....and you think my forum warrioring is weak?!

So your saying that all the people in the third world countries are like what.......a low level tier in WAR? What exactly ARE you trying to say? Do you even know? Please explain how the ladder progression design in WAR is similar to real life in which poor people are funneled into a third world country. How do you explain the people who lived in those third world countries getting on a plane and flying over here then? I have a friend who lived in Iran. He is now here in the UK. The laws of life did not "funnel" him into Iran......he chose to leave. In fact I have other friends who come from third world countries too.

Sorry to break this to you but you do realise that people dont HAVE to stay in their countries until they reach a certain level right? You do know that dont you? Also if a level 30 player leaves Iran then he could actually come and do quests in the UK with players of any level. Then he could just decide to hop on over to Russia and do some quests over there too.

Sorry to break this to you but Life is not like an mmo you dumbass and especially not like one with a ladder progression system like WAR.

Now YOU may stop trolling and gain some life experience LMAO!!!

Actually does anyone else agree with Liranan. Do you think Warhammer Online is just like real life?

LOL!!

Please Liranan say something else. I beg you

Originally posted by neonwire

Actually does anyone else agree with Liranan. Do you think Warhammer Online is just like real life?

LOL!!

Please Liranan say something else. I beg you

Well... If you're going to be literal about it then life is about as much like Warhammer as Warhammer is like a ladder, a ladder being an inanimate object made of wood or metal used to gain access to places usually out of reach and Warhammer being a video game.

Things are so easily twisted to be the way you want them, especially on a forum where there are no consequences.

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by neonwire

Actually does anyone else agree with Liranan. Do you think Warhammer Online is just like real life?

LOL!!

Please Liranan say something else. I beg you

 

Well... If you're going to be literal about it then life is about as much like Warhammer as Warhammer is like a ladder, a ladder being an inanimate object made of wood or metal used to gain access to places usually out of reach and Warhammer being a video game.

 

Things are so easily twisted to be the way you want them, especially on a forum where there are no consequences.

Sort of except we were not talking about a literal comparison. Liranan was saying that the ladder progression game design of WAR was like the ladder progression game design of Life.

So no I'm not going to be literal about it as that would be stupid.

Things can indeed be twisted to be the way you want them but I'm afraid even on a forum there are consequences. That new shape you just made wont neccessarily remain permanent as it can easily be twisted back into a different shape by another persons ideas.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by malefacus

Man, you sum it all. A ladder. There is a lot of things I did enjoy with WAR, but there where too much I didn't. And one of the main thing was this! It's a ladder!!!!!    As I said, it will be a niche game, you'll see in a couple of month.

 

Oh my gosh! Hush! Be quiet will you! Have you no sense man?! There is far too much agreement with the ladder theory going on in this forum. The fanboys will hear you if too many of you agree. Just keep it down and pretend that its the new future of mmos and hopefully they will pass you by.

 

I don't think anyone has really disagreed with the OP at all on his amazingly creative MMO Ladder Theory.

Rather they have just questioned his motives for this thread, what he had hoped to gain from it and been offended by his rather basic put downs disguised in some flowery language.

Why must I have to gain from anything? Does the man who gives a homeless guy a 5 dollar bill gain something from the homeless guy other than the feeling that perhaps he helped some how? Perhaps the whole idea of a forum based on discussion is flawed for the same reason that someone brings up a ...discussion. Truly it is a riddle no?

what was the purpose then of u starting this thread? if the points that u brought up were all facts and truths.. then whats there to discuss? its like a professor coming into this lecture hall and telling the students 1+1=2 .. discuss. Of course there will be discussions but all of them will be either "yes i agree" or "no i do not agree" . but since 1+1=2 is a fact, then the guy who said no will be shot down instantly probably being labelled as insane or something.. now comparing this to the example of the guy that said the world was a sphere and he was shot down humiliated.. dont u think that the people who disagreed with ur "facts" suffered the same fate as the man who said the world was sphere?

if u honestly came in here for a decent discussion u wouldnt have been so eager to reinforce ur points as being facts because thats how i felt from your posts.

so back to my first question .. what was then ur purpose of starting this thread?

Originally posted by Noggin

Well... If you're going to be literal about it then life is about as much like Warhammer as Warhammer is like a ladder, a ladder being an inanimate object made of wood or metal used to gain access to places usually out of reach and Warhammer being a video game.

 

Things are so easily twisted to be the way you want them, especially on a forum where there are no consequences.

The ladder concept is very much the way we live. I explained it but it seens neowin is too stuck in his own little concept of life to grasp it.

Every MMO is based on certain rules and those rules were described as a ladder. Lvl 1 -2-3-4-5-6-7-etc, you take steps on the ladder as you progress. It is the same with life. You are born, you learn this, then that, then something else. You do not learn how to fly a plane before you can walk. Thus steps must be taken to get to the plane, steps must be taken to the cockpit and the landing and takeoff. Those steps are no more or less steps on a ladder than any MMO.

If this is wrong then those who disagree simply do not understand life and the way the universe works. The only way to remove the ladder is by allowing everyone to do anything and everything they want from the moment of their creation, this concept wasn't even applied to the creation of the world, life and everything else by Creationists. The ladder concept is very much a part of any religion or theory. First there was the Big Bang, then there was matter, then matter clumped, then life formed, then came us. We didn't have us, then matter, then Big Bang, then life. The ladder theory can, therefore, be applied to anything and everything.

Do I care whether someone/anyone agrees with me? Do I care that someone living in a basement doesn't agree because they've never left their parents basement and is posting rubbish just to flame? Do I care that someone sitting in the comfort of his first world chair is posting about things he has no idea about? Try again if you think I care.

In the end Neowire is just a troll and has no idea the way the universe works. If he wants to think that the ladder concept can't be applied to everything in existence then he can think whatever he wants but he, obviously, doesn't have a university education because his way of thinking would have his teachers kick him out of school. But it's irrelevant.

In the end MMO's are the way they are because they have been created by people who live by certain rules and we, as a race, can't think beyond those rules as those rules are defined and we can't escape from them.

Originally posted by Liranan

Originally posted by Noggin

Well... If you're going to be literal about it then life is about as much like Warhammer as Warhammer is like a ladder, a ladder being an inanimate object made of wood or metal used to gain access to places usually out of reach and Warhammer being a video game.

 

Things are so easily twisted to be the way you want them, especially on a forum where there are no consequences.

 

The ladder concept is very much the way we live. I explained it but it seens neowin is too stuck in his own little concept of life to grasp it.

My concept of life is called reality. What concept of life are you trying to grasp? Or did your "character" get rolled on a different server perhaps. Maybe you do see life in a very basic way where you start at level 1 and end it at level 80 but thats your problem not mine. Sorry but not everyone on this planet equates life to Warhammer online. Maybe yours plays out like a simple mmo but mine doesnt

Every MMO is based on certain rules and those rules were described as a ladder. Lvl 1 -2-3-4-5-6-7-etc, you take steps on the ladder as you progress. It is the same with life. You are born, you learn this, then that, then something else. You do not learn how to fly a plane before you can walk. Thus steps must be taken to get to the plane, steps must be taken to the cockpit and the landing and takeoff. Those steps are no more or less steps on a ladder than any MMO.

So you are trying to compare learning to fly a plane which requires a LOT of skill and effort to going up some levels in WAR which requires virtually NO skill or effort. For players to progress in WAR they must all follow the same path as the only form of progression is along a ladder, the areas of which are defined by level brackets. To go to and survive in a particular area they must all be within that particular bracket.....if not then they must stay in the previous area until their level goes up.

In real life however a player can go anywhere they choose at any time in their life. There are no areas that are for people of a specific level. Sure a level 30 person can learn to fly a plane. What about all the other level 30 people? What are they doing? Are they all funneled into a particular area with a sign over it saying "For level 20-40 players only. If you are lower level you cannot compete here. Everyone here will beat you. Please go back to the previous area and wait until you are of a suitable level before returning".

No as I said before all the players of Life can interact with and help or fight each other anywhere, any time and at any level. The level 30 Pilot can go on a quest with the level 50 Writer and the level 20 Artist. They can all go to the Suburbs of Gloominess whenever they like, then they can go to the Supermaket Trade Quarter where they can purchase provisions and special gear (yeah and its not level related either.....you can buy any gear ya like if you have enough gold)......then later they all decide to venture forth to the Tavern of Noisiness where they can all participate in the quest "Get 10 pints from the barkeep and drink them". They can all get the xp from drinking the pints and have their dex score decreased for several hours.......and do you know why they can all do these things? Have you figured it out yet? Yeah thats right......its because none of the areas are level related. The players are not being pushed along a level progression ladder which is what happens in WAR. In real life you can do what the hell you like. Yeah we have to learn stuff to do more advanced things. Well congratulations for pointing that out. What do you want? A medal?

If this is wrong then those who disagree simply do not understand life and the way the universe works. The only way to remove the ladder is by allowing everyone to do anything and everything they want from the moment of their creation, this concept wasn't even applied to the creation of the world, life and everything else by Creationists. The ladder concept is very much a part of any religion or theory. First there was the Big Bang, then there was matter, then matter clumped, then life formed, then came us. We didn't have us, then matter, then Big Bang, then life. The ladder theory can, therefore, be applied to anything and everything.

Hold on a minute. Your original reason for posting here was because you said the OP was a troll. Now you are saying that anyone who doesnt agree with your messed up viewpoint on life is wrong and just doesnt understand life.

Also the fact that you have brought creationists and religion into it says everything about why you are so messed up. Firstly religion is the most unreliable source of information you could possibly turn to. In fact you couldnt choose anything less reliable than religion to argue ANY point. The whole "ladder concept of WAR being applied to life" concept is purely your own creation......pretty much in the same way that every religion is just a flimsy theory created by someone.

The Big Bang first right? Well.....ermm....maybe.....it is just a theory ya know. There are lots of theories about our reality actually. The oscillating theory is one. Protouniverse is another. You should check them up. But anyway you're saying that the way we have evolved is the same as WAR's game design? You have COMPLETLEY missed the point. No actually you have driven yourself right off the road completely and you are now driving around in some random field somewhere! Let me try and direct you back onto the main road.

Yes everything progresses in its own way. In WAR you go up levels. In life you get older. Yes thanks we are all quite aware of that one. The progressive ladder game design of WAR is however nothing like life at all. It follows completely different rules. The OP was describing how WAR funnels the players through the steps of the ladder. This however doesnt happen in life. You can choose to go anywhere you like and various people who are in the same level bracket will be having different experiences in different places.

Got it?

Do I care whether someone/anyone agrees with me? Do I care that someone living in a basement doesn't agree because they've never left their parents basement and is posting rubbish just to flame? Do I care that someone sitting in the comfort of his first world chair is posting about things he has no idea about? Try again if you think I care.

Yes you do care. You are clearly angry and annoyed so its obvious that you care. Why go to the length of writing a reasonably lengthy reply otherwise?

Living in a basement? Posting rubbish? Sound familiar? I'm not the one who sincerely believes that WAR (a very simplistic but fun computer game) follows the same design principles that make Life what it is. Sorry but I find the design of Life to be FAR more interesting and complex than anything any computer game can provide. I'm sorry you dont see it that way. If you climbed out of that basement and interacted with the world you might get a WIS and INT upgrade and who knows......you might find some epic gear too ;)

In the end Neowire is just a troll and has no idea the way the universe works. If he wants to think that the ladder concept can't be applied to everything in existence then he can think whatever he wants but he, obviously, doesn't have a university education because his way of thinking would have his teachers kick him out of school. But it's irrelevant.

But of course you in your infinate wisdom DO know how the entire universe works. Thats a pretty tall claim to make ya know. Do you know what you sound like? You sound like one of those crazy devout christians who claims that their theories are "The Truth" and "Definately Real" and are completely incapable of accepting that maybe......just maybe.....their ill conceived idea is just that....an idea and nothing more than that. But yeah sure ok fine.....you know how the universe works. Well thanks for letting me know that I am living in a ladder-based universe. I cant wait until I get to level 80 because then I will be really powerful! LOL

.....oh and you dont need a university education to come up with ideas. We are born with that ability. Maybe someone had to teach YOU how to think but I learnt it all on my own.....wow arent I clever!

In the end MMO's are the way they are because they have been created by people who live by certain rules and we, as a race, can't think beyond those rules as those rules are defined and we can't escape from them.

No......YOU cant think beyond those "imagined" rules but thats your existence and not mine. You DEFINATELY sound like a religious nutjob now.

Well thanks Liranan for replying. I wasnt sure if you were going to or not. You have provided me with a good chunk of entertainment for which I am grateful. I hope you reach the next level on your ladder soon so that you can progress to the outside world beyond your basement.

Cheers.

I'm glad I've fed your trolling. Have fun trolling the thread.

Originally posted by Liranan

I'm glad I've fed your trolling. Have fun trolling the thread.

Troll.....ummm.....troll? Troll! Grrrr....troll......trollllll......

Sorry I cant be bothered with trying to come up with any more variations of the word. Maybe you could add some suggestions as it seems to be your favourite word.

This thread seems to have finally run out of steam though so yeah maybe I will go and chat on another one or maybe not......oh sorry I mean "troll" on another thread because of course if you disagree with someone then your a troll.

Geez your so bloody boring. Come up with any original thoughts lately? LOL