First off, I love WAR. Its fun, enjoyable, and entertaining. Dont take this as a flame, but it would be nice for the player base to recognize it for what it is.

Warhammer = Linear Ladder system + Counter strike + minimal character development.

I like counter strike, i like unreal tournament, i love the one side vs another side pvp, I also like rpgs and the depth of character development they bring.

If you really think about it, you have 3 maps, with players running around in them and they are broken up into 1, 2, 3, and 4. Its a ladder. There is no world, there is no sandbox, no actual depth to the game world. Its just zone 1-4 in which you pvp. There are 3 ladders which you can pick from but they are the same.

Its more like... Spore. You start off small, and just advance into the next stage, then the next and thats it.

The items and character development are very very very very minimal. It reminds me of the korean f2p mmorpg item types in which you have one set per 10 levels and they are all the same look wise except for a few stat changes here and there.

Further more, even the career paths are ladders.

Basically Warhammer online is one big digital Ladder. aka the WARLadder Online.

Its fun, but its also very linear compared to other MMORPGs on the market. Its a clever illusion, which is the basis of game design, but like games like Guild Wars, and even AoC's instance world play, Mythic is making short cuts to get around actually designing a mmorpg world which many have come to expect from the games that started it all.

Its not a bad thing, it funnels the pvp, keeps it organized, but its missing the spirit and design of a full fledged mmorpg.

That was my biggest problem with WAR. It's fun. Like a FPS fun not a mmo fun. But is kinda like that ladder.  We'll prolly get flamed for the truth though!

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

First off, I love WAR. Its fun, enjoyable, and entertaining. Dont take this as a flame, but it would be nice for the player base to recognize it for what it is.

Warhammer = Linear Ladder system + Counter strike + minimal character development.

I like counter strike, i like unreal tournament, i love the one side vs another side pvp, I also like rpgs and the depth of character development they bring.

If you really think about it, you have 3 maps, with players running around in them and they are broken up into 1, 2, 3, and 4. Its a ladder. There is no world, there is no sandbox, no actual depth to the game world. Its just zone 1-4 in which you pvp. There are 3 ladders which you can pick from but they are the same.

Its more like... Spore. You start off small, and just advance into the next stage, then the next and thats it.

The items and character development are very very very very minimal. It reminds me of the korean f2p mmorpg item types in which you have one set per 10 levels and they are all the same look wise except for a few stat changes here and there.

Further more, even the career paths are ladders.

Basically Warhammer online is one big digital Ladder. aka the WARLadder Online.

Its fun, but its also very linear compared to other MMORPGs on the market. Its a clever illusion, which is the basis of game design, but like games like Guild Wars, and even AoC's instance world play, Mythic is making short cuts to get around actually designing a mmorpg world which many have come to expect from the games that started it all.

Its not a bad thing, it funnels the pvp, keeps it organized, but its missing the spirit and design of a full fledged mmorpg.

 

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? 

You never have to go into any scenarios to PVP.  I have done tons of PVP just in open world RVR taking the objectives and the keeps. 

Warhammer is much more an actual MMORPG then a game like Age of Conan or Guild Wars.  Heck it is more of an MMO then WoW currently is. 

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

First off, I love WAR. Its fun, enjoyable, and entertaining. Dont take this as a flame, but it would be nice for the player base to recognize it for what it is.

Warhammer = Linear Ladder system + Counter strike + minimal character development.

I like counter strike, i like unreal tournament, i love the one side vs another side pvp, I also like rpgs and the depth of character development they bring.

If you really think about it, you have 3 maps, with players running around in them and they are broken up into 1, 2, 3, and 4. Its a ladder. There is no world, there is no sandbox, no actual depth to the game world. Its just zone 1-4 in which you pvp. There are 3 ladders which you can pick from but they are the same.

Its more like... Spore. You start off small, and just advance into the next stage, then the next and thats it.

The items and character development are very very very very minimal. It reminds me of the korean f2p mmorpg item types in which you have one set per 10 levels and they are all the same look wise except for a few stat changes here and there.

Further more, even the career paths are ladders.

Basically Warhammer online is one big digital Ladder. aka the WARLadder Online.

Its fun, but its also very linear compared to other MMORPGs on the market. Its a clever illusion, which is the basis of game design, but like games like Guild Wars, and even AoC's instance world play, Mythic is making short cuts to get around actually designing a mmorpg world which many have come to expect from the games that started it all.

Its not a bad thing, it funnels the pvp, keeps it organized, but its missing the spirit and design of a full fledged mmorpg.

I like that description. It sounds very accurate indeed

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

First off, I love WAR. Its fun, enjoyable, and entertaining. Dont take this as a flame, but it would be nice for the player base to recognize it for what it is.

Warhammer = Linear Ladder system + Counter strike + minimal character development.

I like counter strike, i like unreal tournament, i love the one side vs another side pvp, I also like rpgs and the depth of character development they bring.

If you really think about it, you have 3 maps, with players running around in them and they are broken up into 1, 2, 3, and 4. Its a ladder. There is no world, there is no sandbox, no actual depth to the game world. Its just zone 1-4 in which you pvp. There are 3 ladders which you can pick from but they are the same.

Its more like... Spore. You start off small, and just advance into the next stage, then the next and thats it.

The items and character development are very very very very minimal. It reminds me of the korean f2p mmorpg item types in which you have one set per 10 levels and they are all the same look wise except for a few stat changes here and there.

Further more, even the career paths are ladders.

Basically Warhammer online is one big digital Ladder. aka the WARLadder Online.

Its fun, but its also very linear compared to other MMORPGs on the market. Its a clever illusion, which is the basis of game design, but like games like Guild Wars, and even AoC's instance world play, Mythic is making short cuts to get around actually designing a mmorpg world which many have come to expect from the games that started it all.

Its not a bad thing, it funnels the pvp, keeps it organized, but its missing the spirit and design of a full fledged mmorpg.

 

Every game that has a leveling system can be described as a ladder.  Same goes for linearity.

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? 

 

You never have to go into any scenarios to PVP.  I have done tons of PVP just in open world RVR taking the objectives and the keeps. 

Warhammer is much more an actual MMORPG then a game like Age of Conan or Guild Wars.  Heck it is more of an MMO then WoW currently is. 

Funny you ask that. The answer to your question is yes, yes I do know what I am talking about. Apparently however you didnt actually think about the post, but reacted without actually thinking about it. Some are so simple minded in that they cant actually see the point being made by bringing up titles such as AoC or Guild Wars.

You see, if stopped to think, maybe even have some game design background like myself, you would notice that game developers, especially in post 2003 releases, tend to use short cuts and illusion when creating games.  Guild wars was based around the idea of low server cost by using full on instances with hubs and minimal itemization, using xpacs to make even more money. DDO, they did something very similar. AoC, they broke up their zones into instances in which limited the players from interacting in that zone.

You see, strategy found in game design to get around certain features, find shortcuts and attempt to give the illusion of the massive open world, when in fact if you look at it from a technical standpoint, on paper, past all the glitter, you see something very simple.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

minimal character development.

 

I just picked up on this point and I wondered exactly what you meant.

There are more ways to shape your character in Warhammer than I've seen in most games.

First, Mastery Points (Talent Trees)

Second, Renown Points (Alter your stats, resistances, xp gain rate and other things)

Third, Tactics I think you can have 5 or 6 tactics and 10 sets of those to switch between.

Fourth, Morale abilities - There are many combinations of these.

Fifth, Talismans and Gear.

These are 5 ways that I can think of off the top of my head to develop your character.

How is that minimal?

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

minimal character development.

 

 

I just picked up on this point and I wondered exactly what you meant.

 

There are more ways to shape your character in Warhammer than I've seen in most games.

 

First, Mastery Points (Talent Trees)

Second, Renown Points (Alter your stats, resistances, xp gain rate and other things)

Third, Tactics I think you can have 5 or 6 tactics and 10 sets of those to switch between.

Forth, Morale abilities - There are many combinations of these.

Fifth, Talismans and Gear.

 

These are 5 ways that I can think of of the top of my head to develop your character.

 

How is that minimal?

Exactly. 

The OP made this post to troll WAR but either "A" hasn't read about the game, "B" hasn't played the game, or "C" just wants to troll even knowing what he is saying is false. 

Warhammer has more character customization then World of Warcraft does. 

Warhammer has a large open world and isn't all closed off like AoC or Guild Wars. 

Nothing wrong with opinions , but minimal character development? Not likely.

Originally posted by Locklain

 

Every game that has a leveling system can be described as a ladder.  Same goes for linearity.

Not really, actually. A key feature, aka challenge..challenges build around the concept of rule sets and goals, is found in character progression. Character progression is merely the growth of a character based on a number of variables in which through interaction with the world they are either more or less successful at accomplishing a said goal.

However, the point goes far beyond a lvling system. We are talking about an mmorpg world. North south, west and east. a ladder going goes up and down. In this case, WAR does not have the open world, the north west south and east. It has, like the map shows, 3 ladders which you either go up or down.

In essence, you are a funneled into one spot. Imagine driving down a road and you come at an intersection. You try going left but the street is blocked off by a fallen tree, ok you go right, but thats full of road construction and you cant go that way, so you are forced to go straight ahead.

At every intersection the same thing happens. Meaning, no matter what you are being driven, by the system aka god, into one place. The illusion of options is there, but logically, you are not given those choices as they have in reality been made for you and everyone else.

This is the linearity, the method of progression in which you as a player controlling a computer player will face.

Also, yes theres quests leading you on a path, but the difference to other games i won t mention, they actually encourage you to discover outside the path as you say. Theres a ton of tome unlocks i ve got from just wandering off, as well as Lairs. I ve seen a couple bbut was solo at the time so no way i was going to attempt them. The point is , it s there you just need to discover it.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

First off, I love WAR. Its fun, enjoyable, and entertaining. Dont take this as a flame, but it would be nice for the player base to recognize it for what it is.

Warhammer = Linear Ladder system + Counter strike + minimal character development.

I like counter strike, i like unreal tournament, i love the one side vs another side pvp, I also like rpgs and the depth of character development they bring.

If you really think about it, you have 3 maps, with players running around in them and they are broken up into 1, 2, 3, and 4. Its a ladder. There is no world, there is no sandbox, no actual depth to the game world. Its just zone 1-4 in which you pvp. There are 3 ladders which you can pick from but they are the same.

Its more like... Spore. You start off small, and just advance into the next stage, then the next and thats it.

The items and character development are very very very very minimal. It reminds me of the korean f2p mmorpg item types in which you have one set per 10 levels and they are all the same look wise except for a few stat changes here and there.

Further more, even the career paths are ladders.

Basically Warhammer online is one big digital Ladder. aka the WARLadder Online.

Its fun, but its also very linear compared to other MMORPGs on the market. Its a clever illusion, which is the basis of game design, but like games like Guild Wars, and even AoC's instance world play, Mythic is making short cuts to get around actually designing a mmorpg world which many have come to expect from the games that started it all.

Its not a bad thing, it funnels the pvp, keeps it organized, but its missing the spirit and design of a full fledged mmorpg.

 

I agree about the ladder concept but there is more back bone to it.  You have 3 ladder to choose from to advance your toons. It's not only 1 path, you can choose the way you want to go.
 

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by Locklain

 

Every game that has a leveling system can be described as a ladder.  Same goes for linearity.

 

Not really, actually. A key feature, aka challenge..challenges build around the concept of rule sets and goals, is found in character progression. Character progression is merely the growth of a character based on a number of variables in which through interaction with the world they are either more or less successful at accomplishing a said goal.

However, the point goes far beyond a lvling system. We are talking about an mmorpg world. North south, west and east. a ladder going goes up and down. In this case, WAR does not have the open world, the north west south and east. It has, like the map shows, 3 ladders which you either go up or down.

In essence, you are a funneled into one spot. Imagine driving down a road and you come at an intersection. You try going left but the street is blocked off by a fallen tree, ok you go right, but thats full of road construction and you cant go that way, so you are forced to go straight ahead.

At every intersection the same thing happens. Meaning, no matter what you are being driven, by the system aka god, into one place. The illusion of options is there, but logically, you are not given those choices as they have in reality been made for you and everyone else.

This is the linearity, the method of progression in which you as a player controlling a computer player will face.

 

You are forced into a spot due to the level system.  If there were no level system in place for any MMOs there would be no funneling.  Again it happens in every game.  Do quests here travel to the next town due quests here rinse repeat.  The only difference here is that WoW does not have tiers drawn into their maps or you would see the exact same thing.

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

minimal character development.

 

 

I just picked up on this point and I wondered exactly what you meant.

 

There are more ways to shape your character in Warhammer than I've seen in most games.

 

First, Mastery Points (Talent Trees)

Second, Renown Points (Alter your stats, resistances, xp gain rate and other things)

Third, Tactics I think you can have 5 or 6 tactics and 10 sets of those to switch between.

Forth, Morale abilities - There are many combinations of these.

Fifth, Talismans and Gear.

 

These are 5 ways that I can think of of the top of my head to develop your character.

 

How is that minimal?

 

Exactly. 

The OP made this post to troll WAR but either "A" hasn't read about the game, "B" hasn't played the game, or "C" just wants to troll even knowing what he is saying is false. 

Warhammer has more character customization then World of Warcraft does. 

Warhammer has a large open world and isn't all closed off like AoC or Guild Wars. 

 

I might have to ask you the same questions, a b and C. I have played in the beta, PW, HS and now at launch. I know much about this game, and have experienced it as such.

You think because I make a post that you cannot understand and or accept, much less agree with when held up to your own personal bias, that I therefore am a troll. Such narrow minded thinking kind of hurts the credibility of your post.

Minimal Character development is truly as it says.  The use of tactics is a strategy made for tier 3 and 4 play, in which, if you have actually looked at the tactics available, do not really offer anything to character development at all. They offer, tactics, just like the word means, and of which are unlocked as you get closer to the end game. These are seperated from actual character development. The career trees you choose from are ladders within themselves, 24 points, an additional point for the skill and you go up. They are not trees, there are few items that effect those skills and talents, basically...as Mythic has stated. You are one soldier in an army, the whole point is to be a normal grunt soldier until you reach some what of a hero status at rank 40.

Really, it is minimal but it does exist.

You people are assuming I am saying negative things about WAR, but thats your problem. You do not read. I love the game, but because I say something about how its designed that you feel is bad, then you therefore have a problem with your perspective.

Yes Warhammer holds your hand and leads you through the world and level progression, nobody can say otherwise.

Warhammer isn't a sandbox and it's not trying nor pretending to be.

What you describe covers so many games, many of them very popular.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this post really, you could change the word Warhammer to a vast number of other titles and many points would still apply with regards to how characters progress through a game with levels.

What Mythic have done, for the most part, isn't anything new, anyone can see that, but what they have done is looked at many other games, drawn from their experience and repackaged it all under a great IP with some nice innovations of their own on top.

It worked and it's a really fun experience.

Originally posted by LeKinK

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

There are 3 ladders which you can pick from but they are the same.

 

I agree about the ladder concept but there is more back bone to it.  You have 3 ladder to choose from to advance your toons. It's not only 1 path, you can choose the way you want to go.
 

Aye as I have stated. But in a sense those ladders are all 1 as well. If you think about it.... in between the steps you can divide that open space into 3 layers. Thus it becomes one ladder as well.

=======step==========|

Dwarf Greenskin

-----------------------------------|

Empire Chaos

-----------------------------------|

HE and DE

======step===========|

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

First off, I love WAR. Its fun, enjoyable, and entertaining. Dont take this as a flame, but it would be nice for the player base to recognize it for what it is.

Warhammer = Linear Ladder system + Counter strike + minimal character development.

I like counter strike, i like unreal tournament, i love the one side vs another side pvp, I also like rpgs and the depth of character development they bring.

If you really think about it, you have 3 maps, with players running around in them and they are broken up into 1, 2, 3, and 4. Its a ladder. There is no world, there is no sandbox, no actual depth to the game world. Its just zone 1-4 in which you pvp. There are 3 ladders which you can pick from but they are the same.

Its more like... Spore. You start off small, and just advance into the next stage, then the next and thats it.

The items and character development are very very very very minimal. It reminds me of the korean f2p mmorpg item types in which you have one set per 10 levels and they are all the same look wise except for a few stat changes here and there.

Further more, even the career paths are ladders.

Basically Warhammer online is one big digital Ladder. aka the WARLadder Online.

Its fun, but its also very linear compared to other MMORPGs on the market. Its a clever illusion, which is the basis of game design, but like games like Guild Wars, and even AoC's instance world play, Mythic is making short cuts to get around actually designing a mmorpg world which many have come to expect from the games that started it all.

Its not a bad thing, it funnels the pvp, keeps it organized, but its missing the spirit and design of a full fledged mmorpg.

 

Of course it is...it's an MMO friend :) same as any other MMo. I still have not found one that isnt yet, at least this one is fun too, and has a little diversity! but even skill based games are the same, yes some like to think it's different but lets face it, they are all the same.

Originally posted by Noggin

Yes Warhammer holds your hand and leads you through the world and level progression, nobody can say otherwise.

 

Warhammer isn't a sandbox and it's not trying nor pretending to be.

 

What you describe covers so many games, many of them very popular.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this post really, you could change the word Warhammer to a vast number of other titles and many points would still apply with regards to how characters progress through a game with levels.

 

What Mythic have done, for the most part, isn't anything new, anyone can see that, but what they have done is looked at many other games, drawn from their experience and repackaged it all under a great IP with some nice innovations of their own on top.

 

It worked and it's a really fun experience.

You didnt read the original post did you? If you did you chose to ignore it because you felt the need to counter it for most likely personal satisfaction.

Read it again. I made it clear it was designed that way. I made it clear that is a fun game. You just refuse to read, and in turn act stupid by ignoring the contents of the original post.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by Noggin

Yes Warhammer holds your hand and leads you through the world and level progression, nobody can say otherwise.

 

Warhammer isn't a sandbox and it's not trying nor pretending to be.

 

What you describe covers so many games, many of them very popular.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this post really, you could change the word Warhammer to a vast number of other titles and many points would still apply with regards to how characters progress through a game with levels.

 

What Mythic have done, for the most part, isn't anything new, anyone can see that, but what they have done is looked at many other games, drawn from their experience and repackaged it all under a great IP with some nice innovations of their own on top.

 

It worked and it's a really fun experience.

 

You didnt read the original post did you? If you did you chose to ignore it because you felt the need to counter it for most likely personal satisfaction.

Read it again. I made it clear it was designed that way. I made it clear that is a fun game. You just refuse to read, and in turn act stupid by ignoring the contents of the original post.

I'm sorry I wasted my time here. Thankfully the servers are up now.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

minimal character development.

 

 

I just picked up on this point and I wondered exactly what you meant.

 

There are more ways to shape your character in Warhammer than I've seen in most games.

 

First, Mastery Points (Talent Trees)

Second, Renown Points (Alter your stats, resistances, xp gain rate and other things)

Third, Tactics I think you can have 5 or 6 tactics and 10 sets of those to switch between.

Forth, Morale abilities - There are many combinations of these.

Fifth, Talismans and Gear.

 

These are 5 ways that I can think of of the top of my head to develop your character.

 

How is that minimal?

 

Exactly. 

The OP made this post to troll WAR but either "A" hasn't read about the game, "B" hasn't played the game, or "C" just wants to troll even knowing what he is saying is false. 

Warhammer has more character customization then World of Warcraft does. 

Warhammer has a large open world and isn't all closed off like AoC or Guild Wars. 

 

 

I might have to ask you the same questions, a b and C. I have played in the beta, PW, HS and now at launch. I know much about this game, and have experienced it as such.

You think because I make a post that you cannot understand and or accept, much less agree with when held up to your own personal bias, that I therefore am a troll. Such narrow minded thinking kind of hurts the credibility of your post.

Minimal Character development is truly as it says.  The use of tactics is a strategy made for tier 3 and 4 play, in which, if you have actually looked at the tactics available, do not really offer anything to character development at all. They offer, tactics, just like the word means, and of which are unlocked as you get closer to the end game. These are seperated from actual character development. The career trees you choose from are ladders within themselves, 24 points, an additional point for the skill and you go up. They are not trees, there are few items that effect those skills and talents, basically...as Mythic has stated. You are one soldier in an army, the whole point is to be a normal grunt soldier until you reach some what of a hero status at rank 40.

Really, it is minimal but it does exist.

You people are assuming I am saying negative things about WAR, but thats your problem. You do not read. I love the game, but because I say something about how its designed that you feel is bad, then you therefore have a problem with your perspective.

Yea I saw an honest review of the game, did't saw something negative in your post about it.  As I was reading I was telling myself that yes it's like that but it's not because the game is like that that it's some piece of crap, like most people think...  I like it a lot.

About the open world..  I find it hard to compare.  WoW is open but the zone are limited by the next zone or by the sea, you just don't always see it since the walls are invisible but they are there.  imo