Originally posted by rikilii

Everything you mentioned for FPSes applies to RPGs as well.

I LOL'd at this comment and didn't bother reading the rest.  You clearly have no grasp of FPS mechanics.  Quit pretending you do.

why does everyone have to compare real time to rpg combat as fps?

what about god of war dumbasses.

obviously if a game played like wow on console it would be laughed at.  the only reason its not real time is lag..

i can't believe theres stupid morons who actually prefer sandwich combat. and call it a skill.  theres no tournaments for that kind of stupid combat. means theres no skill. theres no balance its all level and gear base. u retards.

and if im shooting an arrow, i rather be aiming at a targeting then auto hit by clicking.  and u stupid rpg combat  defenders.  rather have a dice roll to see if u blocked or dogde?   how fuckin realistic is that? how about we actually get to dodge and block in real time.

like i said a game like zelda would look retarded if it had rpg mmo style combat.  And theres a reason devs are scrambling  to try to make a real time combat. cuz the mmo style is fuckin stupid skill less and boring.

I like Tabula Rasa's Targeting system.  I don't like having to click on an enemy to attack, it simplifies that step.  You aren't going to get twitch on an mmo anytime soon.  What you will see are cutdown versions of twitch combat.  Whether this is limited the amount of people on a map or using a semi-twitch combat.  So in the end you won't end up with the problems of massive people in a fast combat twitch scenario of unfun gameplay.  With both they will probably require more strategy then that of a CS match.

I don't see how this thread devolved into FPS vs RPG 'skill'. It was supposed to be comparing MMORPGs with auto aim vs those with real time aim.

That being said, it should be pretty obvious that the game with auto-aim/attack will take less skill. Whatever 'strategy' involved in games like WoW gets transferred over to a real time MMO. Denying that is stupid. Add in actually having to aim your swings, spells, bow shots, etc and voila, it's plain simple that real time MMO will take more skill.

Originally posted by Mazer14

I don't see how this thread devolved into FPS vs RPG 'skill'. It was supposed to be comparing MMORPGs with auto aim vs those with real time aim.

That being said, it should be pretty obvious that the game with auto-aim/attack will take less skill. Whatever 'strategy' involved in games like WoW gets transferred over to a real time MMO. Denying that is stupid. Add in actually having to aim your swings, spells, bow shots, etc and voila, it's plain simple that real time MMO will take more skill.

When I created this thread, I never even had FPS's or gaming skill in my head.  All of that was totally irrelevant to the point of my question.  :P

The point of the thread was more of a "what type of combat is more fitting for an MMO atmosphere?" type thread, or more simply, just asking just what you prefer.

I am actually involved in a software project which is aimed at creating an MMO, and so really we are just juggling the decision of what type of combat to implement, and wanted the public's opinion.

Some people have made some good points, and I appreiate them, but some people just took the thread in the wrong direction I guess.

Sure, there are those MMORPGs with really fun combat systems but if they offer nothing aside from the action like great stories and fun party mates, they would still suck. For example, I'm annoyed by those hack-and-slash types 'cause in the end, all you could really do in those games is hack and slash.  If that would be the case, why should I pay big bucks for something I could do offline? 

Originally posted by iluvVG 

I am actually involved in a software project which is aimed at creating an MMO, and so really we are just juggling the decision of what type of combat to implement, and wanted the public's opinion.

Go play Tabula Rasa.  Take that exact combat model, the posture modifiers, the cover bonuses, the pace (which is quite fast), and then subtract actual hard locking to the target (it has sticky aim and I'm okay with that).

Basically the most engaging and fun pseudo FPS/TPS MMO combat model out there.  It's really a fantastic system and the only thing the game did right besides making all skills player choosable instead of simply intrinsic to the class' leveling process.

there's nothing worse in a group that the highest technichality you can achieve is targetting something, pressing a button and releasing a fireball. When you got a one-dimensional repeated role of killing npcs with barely any AI over and over again, with the sole increase in difficulty merely multiple units together then you do urge something a little bit more, not necessarily fps style though.

I think that it entirely depends on the game. For example an online game of Naruto, either would do depending on the battle system. As turn-based, it could become a strategy game. In real-time, it could be considered as action based. And you know most of the games right now are in real-time. I kind of miss the old school turn based type. Just select a target then attack, ain't that simple? That is why I'm looking forward to the OBT of Atlantica Online.

Mmm, Naruto Online... But what about that other game, Atlantica Online? What's it about? How's the battle system?

Originally posted by iluvVG

Originally posted by Mazer14

I don't see how this thread devolved into FPS vs RPG 'skill'. It was supposed to be comparing MMORPGs with auto aim vs those with real time aim.

That being said, it should be pretty obvious that the game with auto-aim/attack will take less skill. Whatever 'strategy' involved in games like WoW gets transferred over to a real time MMO. Denying that is stupid. Add in actually having to aim your swings, spells, bow shots, etc and voila, it's plain simple that real time MMO will take more skill.

 

When I created this thread, I never even had FPS's or gaming skill in my head.  All of that was totally irrelevant to the point of my question.  :P

The point of the thread was more of a "what type of combat is more fitting for an MMO atmosphere?" type thread, or more simply, just asking just what you prefer.

I am actually involved in a software project which is aimed at creating an MMO, and so really we are just juggling the decision of what type of combat to implement, and wanted the public's opinion.

Some people have made some good points, and I appreiate them, but some people just took the thread in the wrong direction I guess.

 

 

I would suggest looking at DDO and trying the trial then, they utilize a hybrid combat system which Turbine used in AC. It may be worth looking into and at the very worst you wasted a little time.
 

A hybrid is certainly the ideal situation. If there are choices, either at the start of the game, or throughout, that would be the best option. Take a look at Entropia Universe, they have one of the best hybridized systems I've seen. Players can target things and have their character make the shot, or fire their guns wildly. The game is pretty much a glorified gambling system, so it's not all that fun in terms of a typical MMO, but it's still one if the best balances I've seen.

All in all, if it has to be one or the other, the hardcore gamers will say real time, but the mass gamers will say target based. Depends on your target market.

Guild Wars at least nullified dice rolls. When you swing your sword, you will always connect. If you miss, you missed because the player has a temporary elude buff. Plus you can dodge projectiles

GW only problem is 'spiking'

 City of Heroes made awesome use of vertical movement (superspeed + superjump combo in PVP was a near must and that was fun for a bit).

My dream game would be something like City of heroes but with realtime dodge. Realtime aim would be nice accompanied with homing powers. But at least realtime dodging would be a good start. And no dice rolls.

It really depends on what audience you shooting for.

Originally posted by ricefarmer

why does everyone have to compare real time to rpg combat as fps?

what about god of war dumbasses.

obviously if a game played like wow on console it would be laughed at.  the only reason its not real time is lag..

i can't believe theres stupid morons who actually prefer sandwich combat. and call it a skill.  theres no tournaments for that kind of stupid combat. means theres no skill. theres no balance its all level and gear base. u retards.

and if im shooting an arrow, i rather be aiming at a targeting then auto hit by clicking.  and u stupid rpg combat  defenders.  rather have a dice roll to see if u blocked or dogde?   how fuckin realistic is that? how about we actually get to dodge and block in real time.

like i said a game like zelda would look retarded if it had rpg mmo style combat.  And theres a reason devs are scrambling  to try to make a real time combat. cuz the mmo style is fuckin stupid skill less and boring.

Hopefully your retarded pills wore off by now. If a game played like WoW on console, people would laugh? Did you ever heard of FFXI? Its very slow combat (much slower  than WoW), its auto target, relatively slow response times needed, and its got 500k subs to date.
 

There's no tournament for a game like WoW PvP? I swore I saw WoW at WSOVG (World Series of Video Games) last year... guess I was wrong? And I swore I've seen plenty of GW tournaments too, but I guess you're right.

You'd prefer to jump out of the way to dodge, which requires skill I agree. However, it takes just as much skill to know you will be hit and how you can respond, etc. in and RPG. And you CAN dodge things, there are shield barriers, things like the Shamans totem to stop magical damage, tons of example of how you can repel/dodge spells in a game.

What dev is "scrambling" to make RT combat? Mythic? Blizzard? SoE? None of  them are scrambling, they are making millions of dollars instead. And in closing, I've seen very few people on here with less intelligence on this site than you, congrats.... you win I guess.

REAL TIME FTW

DARKFALL 08!!!!

--Sorros

Originally posted by iluvVG

Just wondering what the general MMO player base prefers.  A real time system where you are able to actually aim your spells and swings, or a target + click ability type of system?  Of course a lot of this depends on how it is implemented, but in a perfect world with perfect combat systems, which do you find the most fun?  Why?

 

If you ask this board what they want, they'll tell you real-time twitch play and no-holds-barred PVP.

If you look at games built around the above, you will find few or any successful ones.  While people will ask for PVP, they run away when they get it; seen this time after time in MMORPG after MMORPG. 

Twitch play doesn't work either; folks want to fight and communicate.  If you build a game around twitch play, you just killed your community and open chat, because no one will be able to fight and talk well and at the same time.

Originally posted by pencilrick

Originally posted by iluvVG

Just wondering what the general MMO player base prefers.  A real time system where you are able to actually aim your spells and swings, or a target + click ability type of system?  Of course a lot of this depends on how it is implemented, but in a perfect world with perfect combat systems, which do you find the most fun?  Why?

 

 

If you ask this board what they want, they'll tell you real-time twitch play and no-holds-barred PVP.

If you look at games built around the above, you will find few or any successful ones.  While people will ask for PVP, they run away when they get it; seen this time after time in MMORPG after MMORPG. 

Twitch play doesn't work either; folks want to fight and communicate.  If you build a game around twitch play, you just killed your community and open chat, because no one will be able to fight and talk well and at the same time.

PVE MMO after PVE MMO has failed left right (from Tabula Rasa to Vanguard, etc). MMO gamers simply expect high quality games, just like any other genre.

And yeah FPS gamers do use Vent/TS to talk true; however MMORPG gamers use that these days anyway. My guild in EVE only spoke on Teamspeak for example

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by pencilrick

Originally posted by iluvVG

Just wondering what the general MMO player base prefers.  A real time system where you are able to actually aim your spells and swings, or a target + click ability type of system?  Of course a lot of this depends on how it is implemented, but in a perfect world with perfect combat systems, which do you find the most fun?  Why?

 

 

If you ask this board what they want, they'll tell you real-time twitch play and no-holds-barred PVP.

If you look at games built around the above, you will find few or any successful ones.  While people will ask for PVP, they run away when they get it; seen this time after time in MMORPG after MMORPG. 

Twitch play doesn't work either; folks want to fight and communicate.  If you build a game around twitch play, you just killed your community and open chat, because no one will be able to fight and talk well and at the same time.

 

PVE MMO after PVE MMO has failed left right (from Tabula Rasa to Vanguard, etc). MMO gamers simply expect high quality games, just like any other genre.

And yeah FPS gamers do use Vent/TS to talk true; however MMORPG gamers use that these days anyway. My guild in EVE only spoke on Teamspeak for example

 

You know, I've never seen anything like Vent used for actual roleplay, but only for sort of a sterile coach-directs-the-team type of sports, especially in raids.  It's like watching an NFL coach and his headset shouting commands to players with their headsets.

This is not roleplaying.  What is happening is the team-sports-oriented FPS crowd is taking over MMORPG's and pushing out the roleplayers.

Originally posted by pencilrick

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by pencilrick

Originally posted by iluvVG

Just wondering what the general MMO player base prefers.  A real time system where you are able to actually aim your spells and swings, or a target + click ability type of system?  Of course a lot of this depends on how it is implemented, but in a perfect world with perfect combat systems, which do you find the most fun?  Why?

 

 

If you ask this board what they want, they'll tell you real-time twitch play and no-holds-barred PVP.

If you look at games built around the above, you will find few or any successful ones.  While people will ask for PVP, they run away when they get it; seen this time after time in MMORPG after MMORPG. 

Twitch play doesn't work either; folks want to fight and communicate.  If you build a game around twitch play, you just killed your community and open chat, because no one will be able to fight and talk well and at the same time.

 

PVE MMO after PVE MMO has failed left right (from Tabula Rasa to Vanguard, etc). MMO gamers simply expect high quality games, just like any other genre.

And yeah FPS gamers do use Vent/TS to talk true; however MMORPG gamers use that these days anyway. My guild in EVE only spoke on Teamspeak for example

 

 

You know, I've never seen anything like Vent used for actual roleplay, but only for sort of a sterile coach-directs-the-team type of sports, especially in raids.  It's like watching an NFL coach and his headset shouting commands to players with their headsets.

This is not roleplaying.  What is happening is the team-sports-oriented FPS crowd is taking over MMORPG's and pushing out the roleplayers.

In pen & paper people roleplay just fine communicating with each other without the use of a keyboard. I'm not sure why the keyboard should be a requirement for roleplay. EVE players indirectly roleplay during fleet ops all the time. I once played the fleet op out loud for my wife to hear and she was blown away how everyone sounded like little star trekk nerds.

"Jumping gate, neut spotted"

"Everyone warp to member X"

"Frigates hang in the back, I need my battleships upfront"

"I need my covert ops to jump through the gate."

"Gate is clear"

This is roleplay. Only the fleet commander is allowed to speak during the fleet ops however other officers are allowed to speak along with relevant personel