Personal Rant:

MMO's need to administer an IQ quest at time of registration.  Your score must be shown by your character name in the LFG window.  Ditto for BG's and just about everything else that involves cooperation or player-player interaction in the game. Also, if you don't pass a certain score, you can't use the public chat channels.  

If you don't "pass", you can still play, but with a slightly adjusted field of options to match your level of mental adeptness.  Questions base should be a randomly generated set of 10-20 to prevent a straight-up answer list from being posted online somewhere.  But it doesn't matter if you can find the individual answers online via google or wikiepedia, if the player has the resources and motivation to look for them, they should be just fine.

I'm not being an elitest here, just pragmatic.  The IQ test should be a standard one and need not involve MMOs or knowledge of computers in general.  After all, the actual in-game technical issues can be learned in time assuming you're intellectually viable.

This problem seems to be the most dire in WoW considering the large player base.  With things like L2, LoTRO, and WAR that appeal only to niche gamers, there's an expect level of "professionalism" amongst the gamers because everyone came from the same background, and the few who didn't tend to be small enough in population not to spoil much.

Discuss.

Unfortunately IQ doesn't measure either maturity or character. While I agree that teammates making foolish mistakes in instances or not following simple directions in BGs is an aggravating problem, even the brightest and most adept players can be real assholes; and THAT'S my biggest problem with WoW.

What a complete and utter load of crap! Even is this post is meant as a joke it is extremely insulting!

As far as you are concerned according to your post, a lower IQ = a lack of gaming ability and the ability to talk to people in a polite and useful manner???

I presume (not good i know) that you have a towering intellect and just find people of a lower order annoying to your gaming experience?

In the gaming world, IQ is no measure of anything really as some will have a natural ability to play certain games anyway. On top of that i have met people in game that may not be the brightest bulbs but have turned out to be great people to play alongside and on the other side of the coin i have met what i would have considered to be quite intelligent people that have turned out to be complete pains in the ass to play with.

Basically, it is just as likely that someone with a 120+ IQ is the guy spamming the trade channel with complete drivel and it was the guy with a 90 IQ that saved your ass in the last raid you did. Get a clue!

Point taken.  IQ test probably isn't the best example out there, but I still say some sort of reading comprehension and general knowledge test should be administered beforehand.  And it's not meant to be a joke.

Bright and adept assholes over incompetent ones (almost) any day.   Assuming character flaws are the only thing in question.  A 12 year old kid who's got the best tank on the server and a shitty personality to match still won't pass an IQ test with flying colors.  And if he's that one bright preteen at MIT with a superiority complex, well, deal with it.  Chances are you won't ever party with him again unless you're guilded with him.

Much rather have a 30 minute H.MGT run and bear with the party chat than a 3 hour run with...well you get my point.  Get in, get out, spend more quality time with friends and guild mates.  Especially now with the grindable epic gear, you can't do gear checks anymore to see how good the player is. (Not complaining about 'welfare epics' per se, just one of the side effects.)

One issue to resolve at a time.  Though I do agree that some players need to tone down their ego abit.  I get carried away sometimes too when in a semi-pug with a few veteran players and that one newbie pug.

PS. All that aside, I'm getting tired of people using rare exceptions to the rule as a valid argument in general.  Granted, there might be that one special (no pun intended) guy you know who's not too bright but extremely good at what he does.  But that's one guy.  And if he really is all you make him out to be and that important to you, just make an appeal process or something.  And yes, I know IQ tests have been questioned for their validity in functional society, but there is a reason that people still use them.

Ipcryss, thank you for covering one of the main reasons I decided to cancel my subscription. People take this, a video game(lets not forget) WAY to seriously sometimes. I have had people quit groups because the priest let them die ONCE...just once.and thats not before bitching, crying, whining, cursing calling everyone a noob and hearthing. Then you have people in BGs who sit there spamming nothing but negative crap on everyone.

Its like if you dont  play exactly to someones standards you are a noob. People make mistakes in life and in games plain in simple, and a lot of these same people expect you to look the other way when they f**k something up. I question the mental states of many people that play WoW. Not to say I havent met a lot of cool people on the game but in the majority I find this is how people act.

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Originally posted by sturmfalke
Point taken.  IQ test probably isn't the best example out there, but I still say some sort of reading comprehension and general knowledge test should be administered beforehand.  And it's not meant to be a joke.
Bright and adept assholes over incompetent ones (almost) any day.   Assuming character flaws are the only thing in question.  A 12 year old kid who's got the best tank on the server and a shitty personality to match still won't pass an IQ test with flying colors.  And if he's that one bright preteen at MIT with a superiority complex, well, deal with it.  Chances are you won't ever party with him again unless you're guilded with him.
Much rather have a 30 minute H.MGT run and bear with the party chat than a 3 hour run with...well you get my point.  Get in, get out, spend more quality time with friends and guild mates.  Especially now with the grindable epic gear, you can't do gear checks anymore to see how good the player is. (Not complaining about 'welfare epics' per se, just one of the side effects.)
One issue to resolve at a time.  Though I do agree that some players need to tone down their ego abit.  I get carried away sometimes too when in a semi-pug with a few veteran players and that one newbie pug.
 
PS. All that aside, I'm getting tired of people using rare exceptions to the rule as a valid argument in general.  Granted, there might be that one special (no pun intended) guy you know who's not too bright but extremely good at what he does.  But that's one guy.  And if he really is all you make him out to be and that important to you, just make an appeal process or something.  And yes, I know IQ tests have been questioned for their validity in functional society, but there is a reason that people still use them.

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First off, on your final paragraph, i didn't state a real example as an exception to the rule. I stated a theory based on your lack of any solid evidence to back up your ranting about intelligence and ability to play the game. I'm guessing that if you can state absolute crap as if it was real, i can at least throw a theory in there, seems only fair.

One thing i would like to clarify about your little rants here is that as far as you are concerned it is fine for someone to be an asshole in the game as long as they have a larger intellect to back it up, is that right?? So you would prefer a game full of intelligent assholes rather than having to put up with people that lack the intellect you think they should have??

As far as people needing to tone down their ego a little, it may be about time to take a long hard look in the mirror!

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Originally posted by jason_webb

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Originally posted by sturmfalke
Point taken.  IQ test probably isn't the best example out there, but I still say some sort of reading comprehension and general knowledge test should be administered beforehand.  And it's not meant to be a joke.
Bright and adept assholes over incompetent ones (almost) any day.   Assuming character flaws are the only thing in question.  A 12 year old kid who's got the best tank on the server and a shitty personality to match still won't pass an IQ test with flying colors.  And if he's that one bright preteen at MIT with a superiority complex, well, deal with it.  Chances are you won't ever party with him again unless you're guilded with him.
Much rather have a 30 minute H.MGT run and bear with the party chat than a 3 hour run with...well you get my point.  Get in, get out, spend more quality time with friends and guild mates.  Especially now with the grindable epic gear, you can't do gear checks anymore to see how good the player is. (Not complaining about 'welfare epics' per se, just one of the side effects.)
One issue to resolve at a time.  Though I do agree that some players need to tone down their ego abit.  I get carried away sometimes too when in a semi-pug with a few veteran players and that one newbie pug.
 
PS. All that aside, I'm getting tired of people using rare exceptions to the rule as a valid argument in general.  Granted, there might be that one special (no pun intended) guy you know who's not too bright but extremely good at what he does.  But that's one guy.  And if he really is all you make him out to be and that important to you, just make an appeal process or something.  And yes, I know IQ tests have been questioned for their validity in functional society, but there is a reason that people still use them.

---

First off, on your final paragraph, i didn't state a real example as an exception to the rule. I stated a theory based on your lack of any solid evidence to back up your ranting about intelligence and ability to play the game. I'm guessing that if you can state absolute crap as if it was real, i can at least throw a theory in there, seems only fair.

One thing i would like to clarify about your little rants here is that as far as you are concerned it is fine for someone to be an asshole in the game as long as they have a larger intellect to back it up, is that right?? So you would prefer a game full of intelligent assholes rather than having to put up with people that lack the intellect you think they should have??

As far as people needing to tone down their ego a little, it may be about time to take a long hard look in the mirror!

---

Jason, pal, please lighten up a little. He's frustrated by some pretty crappy experiences and offered one possible solution. You've exposed it's flaws. Please give him a break.

Nah it's fine...I'm procrastinating atm anyway.  If he feels like he's got a point, let's see where this goes.  No hard feelings in the end on either side I presume.

For one, yes I think smarter people play this, and most other games, better than less bright people.  But that wasn't the exact point of this rant.

And 2, yes, I realize that it was a theory rather than real example. And I'm just saying that the theory is based on a rare exception to the rule and as such, shouldn't be used to refute a more valid one.

As for my theory being "absolute crap as if it were real", please tell me that was a hyperbole... (in which case, ignore this next paragraph) Any game that requires intellect will always garauntee that someone with a higher intellect will do better. Of course, a 2 year old playing chess against a master computer could theoretically win, but it's unlikely and can be ignored in a serious discussion. If you want statistical proof, go look on the internet. If you want biological proof, I can point you to a few books that correlates IQ, cerebellar function, telecephalon function, and learned behavior. It's an abstract take on intellect and gaming performance but valid to a point.

It's fine to be a larger asshole as long as you remain a useful asset.  Once that's gone, there's no point to keep them around.  The probability of being an asset of course, is linked to how good they are in the game.  And I'm saying that how good they are is equally related to how smart they are.  So in a very convoluted way, yes, it's okay to be an asshole as long as you're smarter.

And no, I don't have a "towering intellect", which is why I still have a rather unbiased standpoint here. And, to reiterate myself (which I still don't know why I have to do in a typed medium (see, I can use parathensis too)), "The IQ test should be a standard one and need not involve MMOs or knowledge of computers in general. After all, the actual in-game technical issues can be learned in time assuming you're intellectually viable." I realize that many people are new to the game and won't get things right on the first or maybe 10th try. But the point is that with those people, they still are trying and will in time get it right.  Oh right, and the ego thing, again, I did include myself there..." I get carried away sometimes too when in a semi-pug with a few veteran players and that one newbie pug."

So com'on, since you seem so galvanized by this whole IQ concept, /taunt /goblin rocket launcher.

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Originally posted by sturmfalke

As for my theory being "absolute crap as if it were real", please tell me that was a hyperbole... (in which case, ignore this next paragraph) Any game that requires intellect will always garauntee that someone with a higher intellect will do better. Of course, a 2 year old playing chess against a master computer could theoretically win, but it's unlikely and can be ignored in a serious discussion. If you want statistical proof, go look on the internet. If you want biological proof, I can point you to a few books that correlates IQ, cerebellar function, telecephalon function, and learned behavior. It's an abstract take on intellect and gaming performance but valid to a point.

It's fine to be a larger asshole as long as you remain a useful asset.  Once that's gone, there's no point to keep them around.  The probability of being an asset of course, is linked to how good they are in the game.  And I'm saying that how good they are is equally related to how smart they are.  So in a very convoluted way, yes, it's okay to be an asshole as long as you're smarter.

---

I had to single out these two paragraphs as they are where the whole argument falls down completely and becomes more about some sort of misguided elitism than a valid point about lack of intellect in playing the game.

First off i would be very interested to know how you are currently measuring the intellect or intelligence of the people that you prefer to play alongside? Is it just based in your own perception of their in game ability or do you ask everyone set quetions to gauge what their ability will be like? (This is a serious question by the way)

Gaming, relies on more than just someones intellect for them to be successful, it will also rely on much more basic things like hand-eye coordination or manual dexterity because at the end of the day it won't matter how intelligent you are if your finger can't hit the right button at the right time now will it.

The other thing to remember is that games like these are so scripted in things like MOB responses etc.. that pretty much anyone can learn by trial and error what they need to do in any given situation within the game. So it is more a matter of time and experience than intellect which is a completely different matter.

                       LegolasX  -IQ lvl of boiled potato

            <insert wow guild name>

LFG WORLD PVP, WAR IS COMING.

Yeah, I already said that those paragraphs were a digression, but anyway....guess we're on that track now!  (Please tell me when you want to get back to the original one.)  And again, it's not being elitist, so much being practical.  Yes, assets outweigh character flaws, that's simply how things work in the absence of all other emotional and social factors. (ie taking a lesser geared friend instead of an overqualified SoB, etc.)

Measuring intellect?  Ability to react to a changing situation properly or ability to follow instructions.  ie. The pull's gone bad, the DPS should pull out all of their stops to limit collateral damage, do they do it?  And do they do it properly?  Or the opposite faction is zerg rushing a point, can you respond correctly?  Or if you're new to the game and it's a issue with experience, can you follow instructions rather than stubbornly saying that what you're doing is right?  It's kind of like taking the ACTs over the SATs if you remember what that was like.  So yes, it's a subjective perception based thing, but if what they're spewing out of their orifice is pure idiocy, well that helps finalize the decision too.

"Gaming, relies on more than just someones intellect for them to be successful, it will also rely on much more basic things like hand-eye coordination or manual dexterity because at the end of the day it won't matter how intelligent you are if your finger can't hit the right button at the right time now will it."

And see, now we're really digressing...and grasping for straws.  Basic hand-eye coordination and manual dexterity comes first, and are among other points, taken for granted.  Without it, you can't play the game, and this whole point would be moot. (I mean you can go to another extreme and say, well what if they have parkinsons or didn't have fingers at all?)  Rather, assuming that they are a whole human being, it does come down to intellect that makes them successful.

The thing with experience and trial and error is, you actually have to realize that you're doing something wrong and be able to learn from it in a reasonable amount of time.  For something to become an experience, it would have to register in your brain, and that again takes intellect.  Yes, for two people on the same intellectual level, experience will win out every time, but that's not the point here.  Someone smarter but less experienced will learn faster and trump the slower, more experienced player sooner or later.  And you don't have to limit it to PVE either, all things game related has something of a scripted feel to it.  Even in PvP, because the objectives are the same, people tend to pick certain strategies that work.  Smarter people will be able to see through and adapt in a relatively shorter amount of time. 

And as for learning every possible outcome of a scripted event in time, again it's too big of an exaggeration to be seriously considered.  Play a few million games of chess and you MIGHT see every recorded permutation and strategy out there.  How many more would it take to actually learn to counter them?  Same thing with WoW.  Sure you can learn enough from experience alone to be viable, but that throws the whole, "experience will cover all the basis" theory out the window because you become vulnerable to unexpected events again.

Branko:  I wish that was how things went...and the thing is, some people like that can't even be cannon fodder correctly.  Sure you can coax or trick them into doing it, but it takes too much damn effort.

I think the OP needs a big warm fluffy hug.

Stop thinking so hard.

Stop being so serious.

Laugh at the asshats.

Enjoy the game for what it is - a game.

Originally posted by sturmfalke

Personal Rant:

MMO's need to administer an IQ quest at time of registration.  Your score must be shown by your character name in the LFG window.  Ditto for BG's and just about everything else that involves cooperation or player-player interaction in the game. Also, if you don't pass a certain score, you can't use the public chat channels.  

If you don't "pass", you can still play, but with a slightly adjusted field of options to match your level of mental adeptness.  Questions base should be a randomly generated set of 10-20 to prevent a straight-up answer list from being posted online somewhere.  But it doesn't matter if you can find the individual answers online via google or wikiepedia, if the player has the resources and motivation to look for them, they should be just fine.

I'm not being an elitest here, just pragmatic.  The IQ test should be a standard one and need not involve MMOs or knowledge of computers in general.  After all, the actual in-game technical issues can be learned in time assuming you're intellectually viable.

This problem seems to be the most dire in WoW considering the large player base.  With things like L2, LoTRO, and WAR that appeal only to niche gamers, there's an expect level of "professionalism" amongst the gamers because everyone came from the same background, and the few who didn't tend to be small enough in population not to spoil much.

Discuss.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pragmatic

Anyone with a basic level of intelligence knows about the ignore command. Someone who does not know how to use /ignore, or doesn't know how to adjust their chat channels to support a fun gaming environment for themselves, is someone I would not want in my groups or guild.

People like this beg for things without ever taking the initiative to solve the problem themselves. They are the worst form of MMO gamer, the moocher, the whiner.

Often we see our attitudes reflected by those around us. Maybe its not the people in these games, but you who have the issues?

"2: relating to matters of fact or practical affairs often to the exclusion of intellectual or artistic matters : practical as opposed to idealistic."

Yes, ideally if I leave general and trade chat for good I could play the game the way it's meant to be and enjoy all the social interaction without any problem.  Ideally my ignore list won't be flooded within 30 minutes of being in a city hub during peak hours.  Ideally I can pick up the slack for 5 incompetants in BG by playing better.  But ideals can only go so far.

As a paying customer, a fun gaming environment is what blizzard should provide.  Granted we can cope and adjust, but there has to be a point where you draw the line.

"Often we see our attitudes reflected by those around us. Maybe its not the people in these games, but you who have the issues?"

Yes, I have issues.  I have issues with people flooding anal [insert skill here] in trade chat and people standing in fire dots for umpteenth time dispite being told to move (and not due to lag or graphic card problems either).  Does it reflect on me?  I have insecurities about not knowing my shit when I show up at lab or during rounds, or hell, even to bed.  But I'm pretty sure that's more beneficial than anything else since it makes me practice and research on my own time.

So if you want to delve into psychology, be my guest.  But it doesn't change the fact that I've tried my best to solve this issue on my own and it's getting rediculous to the point that Blizzard needs to do something about it on their end as well.

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Originally posted by sturmfalke
Measuring intellect?  Ability to react to a changing situation properly or ability to follow instructions.  ie. The pull's gone bad, the DPS should pull out all of their stops to limit collateral damage, do they do it?  And do they do it properly?  Or the opposite faction is zerg rushing a point, can you respond correctly?  Or if you're new to the game and it's a issue with experience, can you follow instructions rather than stubbornly saying that what you're doing is right?  It's kind of like taking the ACTs over the SATs if you remember what that was like.  So yes, it's a subjective perception based thing, but if what they're spewing out of their orifice is pure idiocy, well that helps finalize the decision too.

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I really had to pick up on this one because it just shows the huge flaw in your point across the board. Your basis for this whole thread is purely judging people you play alongside from your own perspective and not based on anything factual or otherwise. So what you are actually saying is that only people that would match your particular exacting standards should have full access to the game.

See, now the problem with using this sort of subjective standard is that it would all really depend on where you actually fit on this measurement as well wouldn't it? If you used yourself as a baseline (for starters) to say that those below are to be excluded and those equal or above are allowed then what happens if your baseline standard is actually below average when compared across the whole community? Well, basically what happens is that the baseline would have to be moved up leaving you unable to access the game either. On the flipside if your baseline happens to be too high in comparison to the community as a whole then the same normalization would have to take place and you would be up in arms again about having to let in people of a lower intellect than yourself, although they do make it over the average baseline reading! Then, on top of all of that you have the problem of the constantly fluctuating baseline as the community rises and falls, old players leave and new players start. If you are only allowing players of a cetain intelligence/intellectual level to play unrestricted then you could find that the baseline would shift upwards more and more and eventually it will exclude players that were at one point thought to be perfectly capable of playing the game purely because the overall intelligence/intellect level of the server has risen.

Are you starting to get some idea of how absurd this idea is?

Look, at the end of the day you have the option of who you play alongside in the game and you can ignore the people that annoy you. I hate to strike with some home truths, but there are probably plenty of poeple in the game of both higher and lower intellects that wouldn't want to play alongside you either and that is not a put down it is just a plain fact as you won't have the same interests, gameplay styles, sense of humour and so on..

Just go play and let everyone else get on with theirs and maybe you could actually spend some time enjoying yourself rather than overthinking the psychology of what is at the end of the day, only a game.

And I'm not necessarily judging them on their performance, but also their learning speed and ability.  If they start the instance not knowing what to do at level 70, obviously my expectations are going to be much lower, but if they pick up on how to do things, then it should be fine.

Which is why blizzard should implement a baseline, instead of me. I am perfectly aware that I have a biased perspective, which is what an opinion is more or less.  And it's not a baseline on how well they play the game, like I said in the OP, it's a baseline on their ability to function and learn.  So allow me to quote myself yet again:

"If the player has the resources and motivation to look for them, they should be just fine.  The IQ test should be a standard one and need not involve MMOs or knowledge of computers in general. After all, the actual in-game technical issues can be learned in time assuming you're intellectually viable."

So the ranking isn't for how good of a WoW player you are, but just...how smart you are.  I really don't know how else to simplify this.

Originally posted by sturmfalke

As a paying customer, a fun gaming environment is what blizzard should provide.  Granted we can cope and adjust, but there has to be a point where you draw the line.

<SNIP>

So if you want to delve into psychology, be my guest.  But it doesn't change the fact that I've tried my best to solve this issue on my own and it's getting rediculous to the point that Blizzard needs to do something about it on their end as well.

If you don't feel Blizzard can provide you with what you want for your monthly subscription fee, then take your money elsewhere. It's that simple. You're just wasting your precious time sitting here whining and conjuring up ideas that will never work. I don't even think Blizzard is reading these boards to begin with. Why don't you post your ideas over at the official WoW forum?

Also, who says Blizzard has to do something about it? They're raking in millions every month. Something is obviously working since they're sitting on the throne and have been doing so for years. What you're suggesting would drive away more people than it would bring into the game. So they would have to make up for it somehow from a business perspective. How much are you willing to pay per month for this?

Was procrastinating on a paper at the inception of the idea when I posted it here.  Never really expected blizzard to do anything about it, (although I think they should) this whole thing was originally just a rant.  Yeah, the idea is downright suicidal from a business standpoint.  But webb here took such offense to the concept of an IQ test that I figured it'd be interesting to see where it went.  Hell, even then I wasn't going to get into it until someone mentioned taking an initiative as a player, which opened up the whole player vs. provider issue.

With the whole wasting time thing.  Try proofreading the same 20 pages for 12 hours.  This lets my mind roam a little in the middle.

And the "if you don't like it, get out, we don't need your money" thing is so damn cliche, not to mention valueless in any discussion.  It's almost like when we were kids and playing tag, but one kid simply insists that he's not out, then holds his ears and starts talking gibberish over everyone else.  The more appropriate thing would've been "if you don't like our responses on this forum, get out."  But then again, I'd just be left with that damn paper...

Originally posted by sturmfalke

And the "if you don't like it, get out, we don't need your money" thing is so damn cliche, not to mention valueless in any discussion.  It's almost like when we were kids and playing tag, but one kid simply insists that he's not out, then holds his ears and starts talking gibberish over everyone else.  The more appropriate thing would've been "if you don't like our responses on this forum, get out."  But then again, I'd just be left with that damn paper...

And what value have you added to the discussion yourself? It seems like it's leading nowhere and it doesn't take much common sense to see that your idea would never work and would cause more harm than good because it's going to rub people the wrong way. If only it was as simple as you suggest. Alas, humans are such complicated beings.

The bottomline is, Blizzard is providing a product. It's up to you to decide if it's worth your time and money. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to endure the rotten community, and I completely agree with you that it all too often scrapes the bottom of what immature behavior humanity can come up with. But you either learn to cope somehow, which is what I did after quiting the game over it once, or you cancel your subscription and tell Blizzard why. If enough people do so, they'll be more inclined to act. It's the power of the almighty $ and has nothing to do with holding your ears and talking gibberish.

If ranting is all you want to do, then post your horror stories of what has happened to you in-game so that we can all laugh, cry and sympathize with you. Who knows? Maybe someone has experienced the same and is willing to offer some ideas on how to cope. Just a friendly suggestion.

Originally posted by sturmfalke

Personal Rant:

MMO's need to administer an IQ quest at time of registration.  Your score must be shown by your character name in the LFG window.  Ditto for BG's and just about everything else that involves cooperation or player-player interaction in the game. Also, if you don't pass a certain score, you can't use the public chat channels.  

If you don't "pass", you can still play, but with a slightly adjusted field of options to match your level of mental adeptness.  Questions base should be a randomly generated set of 10-20 to prevent a straight-up answer list from being posted online somewhere.  But it doesn't matter if you can find the individual answers online via google or wikiepedia, if the player has the resources and motivation to look for them, they should be just fine.

I'm not being an elitest here, just pragmatic.  The IQ test should be a standard one and need not involve MMOs or knowledge of computers in general.  After all, the actual in-game technical issues can be learned in time assuming you're intellectually viable.

This problem seems to be the most dire in WoW considering the large player base.  With things like L2, LoTRO, and WAR that appeal only to niche gamers, there's an expect level of "professionalism" amongst the gamers because everyone came from the same background, and the few who didn't tend to be small enough in population not to spoil much.

Discuss.

You sound like a complete dick, no offense. Once you get off your high horse you might notice you're playing a game and not take it so seriously. I think you should take a personality test, because yours is certainly lacking.