Originally posted by DeaconX

I've always taken slight offense when people told me "Oh you only played to level 10? 15? 20? etc - well the game gets better you just have to play on to the good stuff!" -- That in itself shows me personally two things.

1 - Terrible Game Design.  Games are supposed to be FUN FROM THE GET GO, that's why you play... not 'eat shit until the day you can have a cookie.'

2 - The people who keep playing games that really are no fun from level ? through ?? and KNOW they're not fun but drudge on have way too much time and way too little self respect, propelling and supporting another round of bad MMORPG's which clone their predecessors.

In all honesty I can't speak a word about what WAR is like because I haven't played it - and because of people I know in Beta whom I trust and respect the opinions of, I definately won't.  While even I cancelled my Age of Conan account [at least for now until they get much more content] I think AoC has been the only MMORPG trying to be MORE than what's commonly referred to as the 'WoW Clone', which bring nothing new or exciting to the masses.  AoC is still the most fun with an MMORPG I've had in a long damn time.... FROM level 1, up to about level 50.  And THAT'S where it began to sag for me... not AT level 1.

Originally posted by Obzerver

Originally posted by DeaconX

I've always taken slight offense when people told me "Oh you only played to level 10? 15? 20? etc - well the game gets better you just have to play on to the good stuff!" -- That in itself shows me personally two things.

1 - Terrible Game Design.  Games are supposed to be FUN FROM THE GET GO, that's why you play... not 'eat shit until the day you can have a cookie.'

2 - The people who keep playing games that really are no fun from level ? through ?? and KNOW they're not fun but drudge on have way too much time and way too little self respect, propelling and supporting another round of bad MMORPG's which clone their predecessors.

In all honesty I can't speak a word about what WAR is like because I haven't played it - and because of people I know in Beta whom I trust and respect the opinions of, I definately won't.  While even I cancelled my Age of Conan account [at least for now until they get much more content] I think AoC has been the only MMORPG trying to be MORE than what's commonly referred to as the 'WoW Clone', which bring nothing new or exciting to the masses.  AoC is still the most fun with an MMORPG I've had in a long damn time.... FROM level 1, up to about level 50.  And THAT'S where it began to sag for me... not AT level 1.

 

 

QFT mate, I'm so fed up with fanbois on these forums saying 'Oh wait till you're lvl XX'. I played this game till lvl 15 in CB and the fun was sub-par.

Originally posted by dxt178

I know there are a lot of negative "reviews" and "trolls" here, I want it to be clear that I have no axe to grind nor am I a fanboy of any one game. I used to be a game reviewer/freelance writer but have long since moved on to just enjoying games. I have played WoW and enjoyed it to some extent but ultimately grew tired of the end-game content and time needed. I have been following WAR since its inception and looking forward to release. I didn't play beta.

 

OK with that all out of the way my humble opinion based on my first day/night with it and my High Elf Swordmaster.

* The graphics are fairly bland. I have a high end system and everything is maxed, still environments are basic and unpolished and characters are very basic.

* Combat is similarly bland and unpolished. It feels slightly disconnected and weak.

* Quests are well done but some lack proper direction and can be confusing for no reason.

* Overall performance and play is just too generic feeling and plain to really draw the player into the action and story. If WAR was a bag of chips it would be the old style white bag with black letters just saying "Chips."

 

Unlike many negative "reviews" I do plan on sticking with it for at least the first month and hope it grows on me, but I have a feeling that the overall fit, finish, and polish of WoW just has this title beat in almost every respect. I just wish WoW had some of the positive ideas and aspects of WAR like the grouping and RvR. I still would not go back to WoW, but I don't think WAR is going to hold me as long as it managed to do and I don't think my time in WAR will be as rewarding. I hope to be wrong but fear I won't be.

The thing i hate the most.. is review'ers who play a mmorpg game a single day, and place their review... lol, when u anyway gonna stick for a month, try give a review there instead...

But i am sure, that you need to have alittle bit of PvP person somewhere inside you, to fully enjoy and respect the game as it is.

And damn... i have never seen a game, run this smooth in first week of launch.. , well done Mythic.

WTF is up with graphic hatred around here?

Just open your godddamn eyes and compare it to WoW, if you managed to open your eyes you'll see that WAR has far better graphs than WoW! And still 10 M ppl play WoW?

They also didn't implent uber graphs because that wouldn't suit to the whole warhammer environment! Ever seen the tabletop game of warhammer? I think they really nailed the look of it. And I for one love it + if it the game doesn't require such a big graph card, more ppl can play it = MORE WAR

Now sit the hell down and enjoy the game, or leave and go play AoC with 0 % content, but at least you can go "ooh look at the landscape around me".

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by BizkitNL

 

That little text there, oh, and the fact you haven't actually played WAR (as you stated yourself) is basically what makes your conclusion rubbish.

I'm not saying everyone likes WAR, but it sure as hell isn't trying to be a WoW clone, and that is something you need to see for yourself, rather than listen to other people's opinions and take them for true (No matter how trustworthy the source). I'm not going to explain the differences between the two though, there's plenty of posts about that already.

But hey, if you don't want to try it, that's fine with me. But don't come here telling you know what's wrong with it.

 

That red line must be the quote of the day.

Every War copy sold is free publicity for WotLK.

You know ...  the original Elvis or The Beatles or whatever you'd call the original the masses have listened to.

Care to put some sense into your post? It's missing any and all.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just read some of your other posts, and you seem to be a Blizzard employee / Troll. "Sense" is non-existant to you.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by BizkitNL

 

That little text there, oh, and the fact you haven't actually played WAR (as you stated yourself) is basically what makes your conclusion rubbish.

I'm not saying everyone likes WAR, but it sure as hell isn't trying to be a WoW clone, and that is something you need to see for yourself, rather than listen to other people's opinions and take them for true (No matter how trustworthy the source). I'm not going to explain the differences between the two though, there's plenty of posts about that already.

But hey, if you don't want to try it, that's fine with me. But don't come here telling you know what's wrong with it.

 

That red line must be the quote of the day.

Every War copy sold is free publicity for WotLK.

You know ...  the original Elvis or The Beatles or whatever you'd call the original the masses have listened to.

 

Care to put some sense into your post? It's missing any and all.

I'll explain it in 10 days. When everyone knows what it means.
 

Originally posted by Clanzer

WTF is up with graphic hatred around here?

Just open your godddamn eyes and compare it to WoW, if you managed to open your eyes you'll see that WAR has far better graphs than WoW! And still 10 M ppl play WoW?

They also didn't implent uber graphs because that wouldn't suit to the whole warhammer environment! Ever seen the tabletop game of warhammer? I think they really nailed the look of it. And I for one love it + if it the game doesn't require such a big graph card, more ppl can play it = MORE WAR

Now sit the hell down and enjoy the game, or leave and go play AoC with 0 % content, but at least you can go "ooh look at the landscape around me".

EQ2 within a months time of WoW's release had "better graphics". I still think it looked like crap.

Originally posted by bodypass

I'll explain it in 10 days. When everyone knows what it means.
 

Please stop posting. You're making a fool of yourself. Come back when you have finished your "Discussion-for-Dummies" book.

I've read through most of the replies and wanted to clarify a few things and to show this wasn't just a fire-and-forget blast of the game. Let me address a few things:

* The graphics are not "bad" they are just generic. My experience with the High Elf starting point: a few poorly done barrels/tables, some basic ground and grass textures, generic trees, and the Moonrise Tower which is nice but useless. I liked the bolt throwers however the "quest" to shoot the harpies with them is just a total waste of a potentially really cool gripping entrance into the game. WoW has style and a feel not particularly great graphics. Realism is not my yardstick, artistic direction and ambiance is. WAR is slightly sterile and bland, it is not a question if I can enjoy it or not or if you do... it is simply the truth.

* I clearly stated that this was my initial opinion based on one day/night. I never said it was a full review and I also stated I will work with it for a month+ to see how it grows on me.

* Mythic has announced that the game is somewhat of a failure and omissions have turned a lot of players off, so they are going to release the cut classes and cities for free. No breakout success of fit, finish, and polish needs this kind of quick band-aid and press release to help defend the overwhelming negative sentiment. It's nice that they are trying to right hte ship, don't get me wrong, but it does expose the fact that there are some big issues in play.

* I forgot to mention the poor chat system/use in my initial thoughts, others have brought it up and I wanted to add that I also agree here.

* Beginning game needs to be strong as well as mid and end-game. It is what draws people in to want to get to lvl 10-15+. Players shouldn't have to suffer through tedium to better enjoy some later point. It can all be fun just in different ways, WAR sadly missed the boat here.

* I actually -do not- prefer a Conan style combat in an MMO and it is what kept me away from that title. I don't want Street Fighter combat in an MMO with combos/breakers and chains etc. I actually WANT standard MMO combat, but I want it to have some feeling and flow. WAR is a bit rock-em sock-em robot here. WoW has subtle little effects and flow which WAR just doesn't. Screen shake, effects, etc. I want blows to land with convincing power and some dynamic effects rather than watching two stiff cardboard cutouts swing intermittently at each other.

* Think about any RPG/MMO over the years some throw tons of loot and gold, some really make you work for it. The ones that flood it tend to lose some feeling, the ones that get it right make you feel accomplished to hit your first gold piece. It is a milestone. I didn't have that feeling in WAR.

There are some gaps and flaws, there are some new mechanics and features which are very intriguing. Some very simple design ideas have been overlooked which would draw people in and give it some feeling and heart (soul as one person here said) and IMO would have stopped the massive amount of negativity that we are seeing. Again all of this is just my opinion. Just because I was a professional game reviewer does not lend me any more or less authority than the average Joe... but please realize that after many years of reviewing there is not one ounce of fanboy or spin or alterior motive in my comments here. It's just one guys opinion, take it or leave it but I will never understand the champions who feel a need to "defend" some faceless corporations game that you like. I'm happy that you like it, honestly. I hope to learn to as well because I like Warhammer.

Originally posted by swaindaddy

Originally posted by dxt178

I know there are a lot of negative "reviews" and "trolls" here, I want it to be clear that I have no axe to grind nor am I a fanboy of any one game. I used to be a game reviewer/freelance writer but have long since moved on to just enjoying games. I have played WoW and enjoyed it to some extent but ultimately grew tired of the end-game content and time needed. I have been following WAR since its inception and looking forward to release. I didn't play beta.

 

OK with that all out of the way my humble opinion based on my first day/night with it and my High Elf Swordmaster.

* The graphics are fairly bland. I have a high end system and everything is maxed, still environments are basic and unpolished and characters are very basic.

* Combat is similarly bland and unpolished. It feels slightly disconnected and weak.

* Quests are well done but some lack proper direction and can be confusing for no reason.

* Overall performance and play is just too generic feeling and plain to really draw the player into the action and story. If WAR was a bag of chips it would be the old style white bag with black letters just saying "Chips."

 

Unlike many negative "reviews" I do plan on sticking with it for at least the first month and hope it grows on me, but I have a feeling that the overall fit, finish, and polish of WoW just has this title beat in almost every respect. I just wish WoW had some of the positive ideas and aspects of WAR like the grouping and RvR. I still would not go back to WoW, but I don't think WAR is going to hold me as long as it managed to do and I don't think my time in WAR will be as rewarding. I hope to be wrong but fear I won't be.

This is the most honest review of the game I have read so far in that I agree with it whole-heartedly. Time will tell but I couldn't even play through the OB without getting bored. Other MMOs forced me to get back on and play at any spare chance.

This one does not.

How is that an honest review if you and him find the game both crap? It means you share the same ideas and thoughts, it does not mean it's an honest review. Being biased does not make any one of you cool, you know.

No offence, but who reviews an MMO (or any modern PC game) after one day/night of playing one character in it?

That's like reviewing Tetris based on a screenshot and then declaring that it's a pile of crap that will never take off.

Some things take time to be appreciated, particularly when objectivity is clouded by other more dazzling but ultimately empty options.

I would've said something similar after my first 10 minutes with a Black Orc tbh, but then I tried a few other classes and subsequently came in my pants.

A good review should be impartial. It should identify who the game will appeal to and who it won't and of course, why.

For crying out loud, please tell me how in any way I am biased. I have gone out of my way to show the exact opposite is true. Wanna argue the sky is actually green? Anonymity/The Internets really brings out the most ridiculous in people... well that and their chivalrous love of a computer game. It's just a game, it has flaws, they all do... it is how you craft the game around those flaws and internalize them rather than how you ignore them and draw attention to them. Artfully craft around them and you get a mega-hit, don't and you will not. It's a pretty simple equation.

I used to be too lazy to post anything here, only read most of the time, however, after reading this post, I can't help posting my opinion. I never play the table top game so not a fanboi or anything. Actually, I used to enjoy WOW PvP a lot until some of my guildmates recommended me to play WAR.

From what I played in the game and what I read here. I think those who has not loved WAR are those:

- Prefer PvE over PvP - WAR has PvE content but that's not its strength and will never be.

- Prefer solo - WAR is NOT SOLO-FRIENDLY, solo players will lose in Scenarios, get ganked at RvR areas, hard to top PQs, get nothing at Keep Siege, low RR (or need to GRIND for it) - so solo players almost has no fun at all.

- Prefer top class graphic - Maybe Aion is for you? WAR can never be able to push the limit too high because in large battles it would kill most of the PCs with so many effects and actions happen at once. They have to sacrifice quality for quantiy

My guildmates and I enjoy it so much EVEN from lvl 1-5 - our warband for scenarios keep rolling Order even some of them higher level than us. And the best thing is that after scenarios, you autoreturn back where you were so there was no hassle at all. When we reach 14-20, we conquered 2 keeps (except the HE one) and keep sieges times were one of the most fun moments I had for years (reminded me when WOW AV started). Maybe in the future we will get bored of it (like get bored of AV) and may try WoTLK, but for now, we spend every mins we can spare to play WAR.

I bought WAR just because WoW was boring me to no end (got full PvP set and been in 25 men SWP).

I expected a very bad assed boring WoW clone, with lol moves (3 per character) and similar, as so many said that.

But now I just can't stand not playing it! Logged in yesterday at 9pm, did some quick things and discovered it was 4am of today... So I have been playing for hours and did not even notice that, and can't wait to get home to continue!

Except for a somewhat clunky animations (ie in WoW you can insta-stop casting but in WAR there's some small delay) that I hope will be fixed (it's day zero after all) everything else is awesome, fun.

I also put every setting to max, playing on Vista (so it should be a dog slow game) on my 1.5 years old computer, but no, it was very smooth and very detailed (using Nvidia 8800 GTX).

The high elves look plain because they ARE plain, just upgrade and roll a dark elf sorceress and blast the crap off everything ;P in pretty interesting middle-age/gothic-esque scenery.

More 30 mins of work, then I can play again, already got biscuits and cola for some sick long session this week end!
 

Yeah i love the "played it for a day and here is my full review of the game" threads.

I didnt get a decent idea of what the game was like untill after about a full week. And even then i had yet to fully taste the PVE quests and PQ quests outside of the empire map.

It seems that most of the "i hate the graphics" crowd comes out of the elf maps, i played a bit there and the starter areas do suck compared to dwarf/orc and empire/chosen maps. Its seems your basing 100% of your review on a fraction of 1/3 of the game. I found the empire/chosen and dwarf/orc maps to be great. Yes the graphics are dark and gritty...this isnt a sunshine and happyness game, dont confuse dark grit for poor graphics. Truth be told your probably playing on a sub par graphics card on fastest framerate setting....yes i know what your going to say " i have the gamergod500000 pc with the best of everything in the world and the graphics still suck" sure everyone does right. I have a decent system and i dont play on max setting, i found the graphics to be better than most games. Not because the textures where the best but because there is a LOT of stuff going on around you. THeres a lot of npc's lots of siege weapons, lots of backround battle acction between npc's lots of things burning, cannon explosions going off. So what it lacks in bright beautiful texures it more than makes up for with things going on. This game isnt just a field of npc's standing around waiting to be farmed.

From what ive seen, abount 1% of the people dont like this game because its not for them, they like solo pve. 99% of the people who say they dont like this game, didnt like it for WAR not being the holy grail of all mmo's. Its got more content, more action, yes its team based, yes you either like the RvR or you dont, no it doesnt have crysis graphics, but it has smooth gameplay with large battle fields, yes it has pve but usualy isnt what people choose to focus on when playing.

So play the game past 11, try a few starting maps, if your race/class isnt on a good starting map, fly to the empire.chosen map or fly to the dwarf/orc map, you wont be penalized and both maps are diffrent. Also after 11 you start to get all the skills you need to properly play your lcass...i love the guy who laughed at the fact you get 3 skills (play past lv3 much?) If you hit 11 and it isnt fun move on, its not for you. If you cant stand the graphics (despite they are better than most games out there including a popular pve game) cant stand the sound, hate the gameplay, then by all means, have fun elsewhere, better luck next mmo.
 

oh and for comparison on graphics:

and compare to what some call better or the same graphics: (pulled off google image search so its some random guy)

OK, so to those who wanted to jump all over my initial reaction/"review" I have spent a considerable amount of time now and some opinions have changed and some new ones cropped up...

* Chat is certainly useless. No two ways about that.

* Graphics, I learned to somewhat like them but the overall feel is still very stiff and slightly generic. I'd say they grew on me a bit but there is just no way to totally excuse them and the animations. They are done well enough but nothing spectacular or great.

* PQs are a neat idea but flawed overall. The loot system is broken in PQs. It should be totally random based on a single roll at the completion of the quest with some basic system in place to make sure the players did participate (say, at least a few kills or healing during the PQ). As it stands now if you wander into a PQ half-way over you will most likely get nothing for your efforts so there is no reason to help. Also, a few high levels in a PQ will always be at the top of the loot list.

* As for my statement about quests being obscure or confusing, I stand by it 100%. Part of many quests (eg kill 5 so and so's) is understandable and findable on the map, but then there will be a second bit that is totally unexplained and confusing like "Flesh Sacrifice 0/1." What is it? Do I kill something? Is it a scroll? Is it a dead thing on an altar? WTF is it? no explanation in the quest itself, nothing. Or in a PQ which is timed you get to stage 2 or 3 and then it throws up some crazy requirement that offers no direction or info. Like "Eagleclaws 0/3" Do I kill three Eagleclaws? oh, the bolt throwers are called Eagleclaws and I need to defend 3 of them... oh, wait I just need to keep one alive? WTF. No direction on the map, nothing. Or stage a stage three where it says to take down the cities banner... the three banners are not clickable and it is a different banner but no direction or info is given. Some quests are easily understood and completed some are so obtuse it is just silly. Not good.

* Tradeskills are a bit like an afterthought. They are neat and useful but poorly explained and without any real direction.

* I do like the PvP but is a bit of a one trick pony in WAR. Again, some great ideas and new aspects, just not flawlessly implemented.

So, basically even though there is more I liked as I played it is still a flawed title unfortunately. I have a feeling I'll play till the end of the free month but then put it on the shelf for a while and see what transpires in a few months. Regardless of your agree/disagreement with my statements I guarantee that this game will undergo a massive amount of changes/additions/"nerfs" in the coming months to make it more viable and all of the effort made until then will be wasted. The only changes to be made are going to be big ones and have some big impact such as the announcement of the old classes that got cut and cities. Enjoy it for now, but things are going to change and people will be whining in short order. Time will tell WARs fate.

Originally posted by dxt178

* The graphics are fairly bland. I have a high end system and everything is maxed, still environments are basic and unpolished and characters are very basic.

I felt they were no more bland than WoW, and any game that intends have 50-100 or more players fighting in the same area is going to have to do that until a new leap is made technologically in graphics and data streaming.

* Combat is similarly bland and unpolished. It feels slightly disconnected and weak.

Blander than what?  Again, though I am reluctant to constantly use WoW as a basis, its no blander than WoW's system, in fact it struck me as better due to less downtime and having to learn how to pace your activity for the longer battles.

* Quests are well done but some lack proper direction and can be confusing for no reason.

Confusing at times yes, as someone who works with a ton of Brits I can only say that I think its the way their minds work.  Cultural differances make the obvious not so much to those outside of the culture.  As for direction, so far I haven't had issue with that, the map pretty much tells me where to go and what I like is that I get alerts via the map as to where new quest givers are.

* Overall performance and play is just too generic feeling and plain to really draw the player into the action and story. If WAR was a bag of chips it would be the old style white bag with black letters just saying "Chips."

I have a difficult time understanding where you're coming from on this.  Performance is rock solid for me so far, animation smooth, and the heavy RvR scenario's I've played have had so many players on each side that I was actually shocked at how smooth game play was.  By play I can only assume you mean what you do in the game PvE wise.  In that regard, having played every paid MMO on the market by now, I can say is when you strip away the world lore, they're all the same.  I think here you're reacting to design laws rather than WAR's inherit quality.  It happens after you've played alot of these, the trick is to just step back and not bring the old veteran inside

 

Unlike many negative "reviews" I do plan on sticking with it for at least the first month and hope it grows on me, but I have a feeling that the overall fit, finish, and polish of WoW just has this title beat in almost every respect. I just wish WoW had some of the positive ideas and aspects of WAR like the grouping and RvR. I still would not go back to WoW, but I don't think WAR is going to hold me as long as it managed to do and I don't think my time in WAR will be as rewarding. I hope to be wrong but fear I won't be.

This is the only part of your post that annoys me, though not to worry, I know it's not intentional nor personal ;)   First off, WoW has had 4 years of development, and currently enjoys a 150 million dollar revenue every month.  Think on that for a second, even if only 50% of that is not eaten up by overhead, that's still a ton of money every month to do development with.  And yet...they still can't get Arena down.  Patch after patch after nerf after patch with more nerf...and they still can't solidify their borked up Arena concept.  They can't come up with a way to address the AFK issues in the BGs.   World PvP is virtually non existant and even on most PvP servers, its one sided, either you spent weeks assembling a arena set to have even a modicum of a survival chance, or you're just fodder for the retard who does nothing but buys arena ratings so he can gank.  The gear discrepancy overshadows its PvP design so badly that its literally a failed design, a truth that Arena exposes on a constant basis with its cycles of pvp patches.

However their instances see new tweaks to help with the gearing, that's a plus.  Dailies are a plus, xpacs featuring more lore, more instances, more gear, all pluses, and by now it should be showing what WoW's decided focus is...PvE.  Not that its a bad focus, but clearly in PvP WoW often scratches its head and does a "Nurrrr?"  In fact, if the PvE didn't have the polish it does, given how much money pumps into their accounts every month, I'd consider it a horrid failure. 

Unfortunately, all that PvE depth is centered around acquiring loot, and it creates a mentality I have grown very weary of.  I used to love the BGs, until Arena came out and forced me to do that first before I could enjoy my BG sessions again, due to the performance discrepancy you'd run into with battling someone that had said gear.  But the entire system that WoW uses to generate its rewards isn't designed well enough to avoid the afk syndrome, in WAR at least, I see everyone participating and getting credit for doing what their class is supposed to do.

So in closing, while I understand your position of comparing the two games, I personally do not agree with WoW beating WAR, the two are different animals really.  One is a EQ-Lite game with a side of PvP...the other is a PvP game from the ground up with a side of PvE.  If I were a raider, I'd love WoW and hate WAR, fair enough, but PvE content to me isn't nearly as interesting as forming up with friends to bash in some enemy heads.

 

PS)  There is one thing that is driving me bonkers about WAR however, not mentioned in your post but I'm sure distracts you as well.  Chat.  I have read all the comments that love the fact that there is no global chat, but I find it rather stiffling.  Sure, the global idiot isn't able to annoy you with his retarded attention seeking spamming or sophmoric humor...but my rebuttal to that remains the same, include /ignore and include /leave channel.  problem solved. 

Lack of solid chat for non guilded individuals is making it extremely difficult for me to get a feel for people, whom I'd like to invite to party with and who is such a ass that I definitely do not want anything to do with them.  And the suggestion to just Vent it doesn't work if you're not part of a guild or a group of friends who joined the game together (who are most likely to form a guild in the first place).  If anything drives me away from the game, it'll be this, as I find it seriously hampers the sense of community development.