There is an argument in game development that developers do not have to make the ultimate sandbox to make good games.  It is sort of a contract.  For example, if you are making a ninja game, you should expect the player to act like a ninja and not worry about protecting the game/player from the player acting like something else.  MANY developers (non-MMO) have used this philosophy.  Why should they care if players decide they don't want to obide by the unspoken contract?

Why can't that also apply to MMOs?  Why do people even play MMOs if they don't want to play with others?  That doesn't make any sense to me.  The reason new MMOs generally suck is because they are missing the point of having an MMO.  The whole reason to play a game in this genre is to play WITH a MASSIVE amount of other players.  Simply having a single player game with a chat-box does not qualify as playing WITH others.

Most of today's MMOs really aren't MMOs.  There is an unfortunate thing happening to this genre though.  Video games as an industry are becoming more and more multiplayer oriented.  The future of gaming is multiplayer and not single player.  This means that there IS money to be made in "MMOs", but developers will completely destroy the genre.  What I mean here is that they will produce games with "MMO" in the title, but the game will have no qualities that make it a game where you can play WITH a MASSIVE amount of other people.  The term "MMO" is being changed.  The new generation of players think MMOs now are what MMOs are, but just examining them on a semantic level would prove otherwise.  It's very sad to see this happening if you are someone who experienced what MMOs were all about.  Basically, the only way this genre will redeem itself (in terms of just definition) is if developers change their underlying MMO philosophy.  They should start off with this question:  What can a MASSIVE amount of players do WITH each other?  THAT is the essence of the MMO, which is slowly being lost and distorted.

Now, as far as WAR goes:  I've also found that there is eerily no communication happening.  I am still a low level and unguilded though, so we will see.  Personally, I'm having fun with the game.  It's by far not the next amazing MMO, but it's a fun game to play.  WAR got one thing right, and that is the fact that it is designed to be an MMO; it makes people play together under a common thread.  It's not perfect, but at least it isn't a single player game.  Age of Conan was an absolute travesty in my eyes.  How anyone can actually call that an MMO is beyond me.

As far as the future goes, I'm not too certain.  Developers have this nasty habbit of taking everything bad from WoW and amplifying it, while ignoring what actually made WoW a successful game.  To be clear, WoW has high quality and it is still an MMO (even though I would consider it an MMO-lite).  WoW made people play with each other for at least part of the time, specifically end-game content.  If developers can figure out the definition of an MMO and actually make MMOs, I think the future will be great.  If they keep acting like clueless rockstars, they'll keep producing non-MMO games with "MMO" in the title and further piss off people who actually understand what that means.

(Sorry for the TLDR post by the way :p)

Would anyone mind playing war with me? So we have somebody to talk to =/

Originally posted by demalus

 There is an argument in game development that developers do not have to make the ultimate sandbox to make good games.  It is sort of a contract.  For example, if you are making a ninja game, you should expect the player to act like a ninja and not worry about protecting the game/player from the player acting like something else.  MANY developers (non-MMO) have used this philosophy.  Why should they care if players decide they don't want to obide by the unspoken contract?

 

Why can't that also apply to MMOs?  Why do people even play MMOs if they don't want to play with others?  That doesn't make any sense to me.  The reason new MMOs generally suck is because they are missing the point of having an MMO.  The whole reason to play a game in this genre is to play WITH a MASSIVE amount of other players.  Simply having a single player game with a chat-box does not qualify as playing WITH others.

 

Most of today's MMOs really aren't MMOs.  There is an unfortunate thing happening to this genre though.  Video games as an industry are becoming more and more multiplayer oriented.  The future of gaming is multiplayer and not single player.  This means that there IS money to be made in "MMOs", but developers will completely destroy the genre.  What I mean here is that they will produce games with "MMO" in the title, but the game will have no qualities that make it a game where you can play WITH a MASSIVE amount of other people.  The term "MMO" is being changed.  The new generation of players think MMOs now are what MMOs are, but just examining them on a semantic level would prove otherwise.  It's very sad to see this happening if you are someone who experienced what MMOs were all about.  Basically, the only way this genre will redeem itself (in terms of just definition) is if developers change their underlying MMO philosophy.  They should start off with this question:  What can a MASSIVE amount of players do WITH each other?  THAT is the essence of the MMO, which is slowly being lost and distorted.

 

Now, as far as WAR goes:  I've also found that there is eerily no communication happening.  I am still a low level and unguilded though, so we will see.  Personally, I'm having fun with the game.  It's by far not the next amazing MMO, but it's a fun game to play.  WAR got one thing right, and that is the fact that it is designed to be an MMO; it makes people play together under a common thread.  It's not perfect, but at least it isn't a single player game.  Age of Conan was an absolute travesty in my eyes.  How anyone can actually call that an MMO is beyond me.

 

As far as the future goes, I'm not too certain.  Developers have this nasty habbit of taking everything bad from WoW and amplifying it, while ignoring what actually made WoW a successful game.  To be clear, WoW has high quality and it is still an MMO (even though I would consider it an MMO-lite).  WoW made people play with each other for at least part of the time, specifically end-game content.  If developers can figure out the definition of an MMO and actually make MMOs, I think the future will be great.  If they keep acting like clueless rockstars, they'll keep producing non-MMO games with "MMO" in the title and further piss off people who actually understand what that means.

 

(Sorry for the TLDR post by the way :p)

Bravo..

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by Sovrath
 

I do know that there are games where people have cameraderie. I play them or justt quit. Lineage 2 for one. Lord of The rings if you are in a good group. I've had a blast with these games and the people I've met.

The games are out there. You just have to meter your expectations.

 

 

IMHO, it has to do a lot with the mindset of the player. Generally speaking you find what you seek. I don't think any MMO is truely designed to be "anti - social" they just have the emphsis on different aspects of play. Where games like Lineage 2 strive to bind guilds together to fight one another throughout, games like WoW bring their guilds together for the endgame.

You may be able to "solo" through WAR as far as mechanics are concerned but I'm fairly certain you will not get 100% out of the game without being part of a cohesive, well organized and active guild....really like any other MMO out there. Guilds / socialization is purely in the hands of the players. All the tools are there in any MMO its just many don't use them.

Signed

Capt Obvious

 

Actually that's a very good point.

Luckily I got into beta enough to see War  was another game that was not for me.  Been there done that with RVR in DAoC.  Constantly retaking cities and forts I took yesterday gets old fast and that is all there is to do in War.   Sorry just another Wow clone with more emphacis on pvp.

       It is hard for the veteran players to play MMOs today but like a couple others have said you ahve to adjust......When I played EQ most of the grouping I did was very good......Players knew their roles and most did them pretty well.....When I moved on to LoTRO then grouping became totally different......Instead of working together the groups I had in LoTRO were just 6 indiviuals doing their own thing.....Sure we had a tank and healers and dps but there was little or no strategy and once the quests were done the goups always disbanded......It is frustrating to be playing and have some Hunter run off and attack mobs that are not even close to where everyone else is fighting then start screaming for heals......You jsut have to accept that almost all the games since WoW have been moade for the casual gamer and msot of them just want to play an hour or two with little or no hassle and move on........

Darkfall is coming my friend.

I'd say try out games like Stargate Worlds, The Agency, Star trek Online...i think people are mostly getting burnt out on Medival type games, and alot of these games seem to be trying at least a few new things.

I wish sombody good, (not some scrub company), would pick up Battletech universe and make an awesome MMO from that.

Originally posted by Scalebane

I'd say try out games like Stargate Worlds, The Agency, Star trek Online...i think people are mostly getting burnt out on Medival type games, and alot of these games seem to be trying at least a few new things.

I wish sombody good, (not some scrub company), would pick up Battletech universe and make an awesome MMO from that.

Cause a World of Starcraft will just make the genre so much better... Get real, the problem isn't the setting of the game.

Originally posted by Mazer14

Originally posted by Scalebane

I'd say try out games like Stargate Worlds, The Agency, Star trek Online...i think people are mostly getting burnt out on Medival type games, and alot of these games seem to be trying at least a few new things.

I wish sombody good, (not some scrub company), would pick up Battletech universe and make an awesome MMO from that.

 

Cause a World of Starcraft will just make the genre so much better... Get real, the problem isn't the setting of the game.

I think some people do get burned out by playing elves, dwarves, orcs, etc.  However, I would have to agree that that is not the real problem.

Originally posted by altairzq

My time for the QQ whine troll whatever you want to call it. My last hope was WAR, it's clear that this game is devoid of any social interaction.

MMO genre is dead.

Hello to the masses of players that don't want anything else than a single player game with guys playing around.

I will just step aside while keeping an eye for some unexpected new game, but no hope anymore.

Congratulations developers, it wasn't easy to bring a whole genre to its knees, but you have managed to. Not a small feat.

Other than agreeing with you that war sucks in general I like having the option of not interacting with people.  I get tired of people long before I get tired of a given game.  People suck.  Thank you developers.

MMO's suck unless you have friends to play with. I dont care how good hte game is playing by yourself is no where near as fun as playing with friends.

Originally posted by altairzq

My time for the QQ whine troll whatever you want to call it. My last hope was WAR, it's clear that this game is devoid of any social interaction.

MMO genre is dead.

Hello to the masses of players that don't want anything else than a single player game with guys playing around.

I will just step aside while keeping an eye for some unexpected new game, but no hope anymore.

Congratulations developers, it wasn't easy to bring a whole genre to its knees, but you have managed to. Not a small feat.

Well, too bad for you but roller coaster ride with no force group is the clear market trend. The MMO market has expanded in the recent years.

I suppose whenever something new comes around, there will be old timers who do not like the change and leave. But this is inevitable progress.

I gotta say I miss the days when people would actually talk to me before sending me a guild invite. Or when I group with someone they do more than issue one word 'commands' about what we are doing and where we are going.

I miss the days when I could ask a question in chat and actually get an answer instead of being told in broken chat speak (which gets worse every year) that  "lol wut newb?"

I'm not looking to make BFF's in every game but its nice to have a group of people who you can run quests with and chat and joke around with while you play and I'm not seeing that nearly as much as when I started gaming.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by Sovrath
 

I do know that there are games where people have cameraderie. I play them or justt quit. Lineage 2 for one. Lord of The rings if you are in a good group. I've had a blast with these games and the people I've met.

The games are out there. You just have to meter your expectations.

 

 

IMHO, it has to do a lot with the mindset of the player. Generally speaking you find what you seek. I don't think any MMO is truely designed to be "anti - social" they just have the emphsis on different aspects of play. Where games like Lineage 2 strive to bind guilds together to fight one another throughout, games like WoW bring their guilds together for the endgame.

You may be able to "solo" through WAR as far as mechanics are concerned but I'm fairly certain you will not get 100% out of the game without being part of a cohesive, well organized and active guild....really like any other MMO out there. Guilds / socialization is purely in the hands of the players. All the tools are there in any MMO its just many don't use them.

Signed

Capt Obvious

 

 

Actually that's a very good point.

I have my rare moments

Originally posted by Korby

Guys like us really ought to make a Real MMO.

 

*Grabs a textbook*

You have my bow to help you!

*noice from background* and my axe!

And so on and so forth.

Originally posted by Theocritus

       It is hard for the veteran players to play MMOs today but like a couple others have said you have to adjust......When I played EQ most of the grouping I did was very good......Players knew their roles and most did them pretty well.....When I moved on to LoTRO then grouping became totally different......Instead of working together the groups I had in LoTRO were just 6 indiviuals doing their own thing.....Sure we had a tank and healers and dps but there was little or no strategy and once the quests were done the goups always disbanded......It is frustrating to be playing and have some Hunter run off and attack mobs that are not even close to where everyone else is fighting then start screaming for heals......You just have to accept that almost all the games since WoW have been moade for the casual gamer and most of them just want to play an hour or two with little or no hassle and move on........

While I understand where you are coming from, I think it is an utter load of crap that we "just have to adjust". Many of us have been playing MMOs since UO and EQ, and over the years we have come to know what we like and what we don't about games. A lot of the titles these days are watered down, single player games with the ability to group with others. They are far too casual and solo oriented. While the solo gamer is an important aspect that should be included in the overall scope of things, MMO's at their heart were all about groups and strategies and working together.

I just don't think it is a good idea to think that we have to adjust to these new games. Maybe some Devs will make a game adjusted to suit us... <shrug>

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by ZodiaEclipse

I gotta say I miss the days when people would actually talk to me before sending me a guild invite. Or when I group with someone they do more than issue one word 'commands' about what we are doing and where we are going.

I miss the days when I could ask a question in chat and actually get an answer instead of being told in broken chat speak (which gets worse every year) that  "lol wut newb?"

I'm not looking to make BFF's in every game but its nice to have a group of people who you can run quests with and chat and joke around with while you play and I'm not seeing that nearly as much as when I started gaming.

Unfortunately, WoW Barren's Chat is a sickness and it is spreading over the years.... Actually having an intelligent conversation or getting a mature answer is almost unheard of in many games these days. And that's if someone even answers you at all.

O noes, please don't leave us!

Get some friends, booze etc, a couple of D&D manuals and some dice. Play from dusk till dawn (or till you pass out, whichever comes first). No monthly fees. Tons of socializing in a fantasy context.

Or play chess at the mall with 10+ others drinking starbucks in the afternoon. Talk philosophy, economics, or politics while playing a heady game.

Or if your standards are not that high, go to a bar get drunk and talk to skanky divorcees who have failed at marriage 3+ times because they only think about themselves..... socialize!

But computer games are for kids. 10-20 kids. Concerning the 20-30 crowd, they play them because they haven't grown up yet. The 30-40 group play them because they want to have long periods away from a nagging wife or screaming kids. And the 40+ play them because they are nostalgic about their lost youth.

I think since facebook etc have gotten bigger, people socialize there more than MMOs. The traditional MMO with this social orientation and escape played a part in history, but it's time is past. Internet socialization is happening now in places like facebook ... for free. For 50 bucks and 15/mo, people want to see something, then kill it.