Originally posted by bodypass

The size of a poststamp and still lagging as hell, the moment you fight with 8 players on screen.

Every WAR copy sold is free publicity for WotLK. And the lay-out and thoughts above show why.

 

If you start lagging with 8 people on the screen, its your PC that can't handle it. You see, I can still play lag-free with 20 people bunched up together, casting their stuff at eachother. Don't even start blaming the game for your system's shortcomings (And now I suppose you will respond by stating your l33t specs, which will be a lie).

And here's my motto: Every person saying that every WAR copy sold is free publicity for WotLK, is an idiot.

My 2 cents :).

Edited for spelling.

Originally posted by Azrile

Ok,  Thanks for explaining that.

Yeah.  Lake Wintergrasp isn't permanent, it resets every 4 hours.  So you won't have the situation where people destroy the walls and force the owner to abandon or repair it.   Also the seige weapons in WOW aren't that easy to come by.  I doubt there will be 20 pounding away at a single part of the wall.  In order for that to happen, the people who got them early would have to sit around idle for a long time waiting for others to get one... given that the combat only lasts 45 mins ( probably will be bumped to an hour though).. I doubt people will want to sit around very long.

The other poster cleared up what I meant by ' every tier is the same'.    While you can say ' why fix what isn't broken'.. the same can be said for WSG and AB (the two most boring battlegrounds).  As games get better, they get more innovative, and players will get bored with old mechanisms.   I really think Warhammer is going to have a longevity problem with their seige mechanisms.   Will players heart get racing the 100th time they knock down the same doors of a keep.   That should be the ultimate experience of Warhammer, yet it will be something players have done at lvl 1 too.  The seige mechanisms should get progressively more complicated as you move up in tiers.  

And the previous poster was right about scenarios.  While AB and WSG are pretty lame, all Warhammer did was take the worst WOW BGs and cut the map to a smaller size to make it faster.   I didn't see a single scenario that was at all innovative.  The new "Normandy" battleground in WOW is pretty amazing.  I think for Warhammer being 4 years newer than WOW, it shouldn't have regressed to using WOW's worst BG's as it's inspiration.. it should have been pushing the envelope.   I just honeslty don't see how a WOW pvper could switch to Warhammer and be limited to WSG/AB type games rather than come back to WOW for Normandy and Lake Wintergrasp.

Well the first High elf scenario is huge, and once you take both points this blast covers most of the area and you have to run or get killed.  I thought it was a lot of fun and I hate BG's Im all about world PvP. The reason why they didn't push the envelope on the scenarios is the game isn't about battle grounds its about Wold PvP.  Its about taking taking over the other territor not sitting in an instance battleground killing people for no good reason. 

How exactly do you get siege weapons in WoW?  I havent kept up on that since I quit playin the game for Warhammer.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by bodypass

The size of a poststamp and still lagging as hell, the moment you fight with 8 players on screen.

Every WAR copy sold is free publicity for WotLK. And the lay-out and thoughts above show why.

 

 

If you start lagging with 8 people on the screen, its your PC that can't handle it. You see, I can still play lag-free with 20 people bunched up together, casting their stuff at eachother. Don't even start blaming the game for your system's shortcomings (And now I suppose you will respond by stating your l33t specs, which will be a lie).

And here's my motto: Every person saying that every WAR copy sold is free publicity for WotLK, is an idiot.

My 2 cents :).

 

Edited for spelling.

Look on the WAR forums: a lot of posts in WAR with the same issues of lag. Sometimes you see players "jumping" 5 to 10 meters in a flash, that's the lag I am talking about.

And I think it's not even client lag... it is definitely server lag.
The servers are capped at 500 people on each Chaos/Order side. So that is further proof.

Every normal MMORPG server these days can hold about 3000 players.

So they have to limit these numbers to 1/3 of the normal size just to reduce the server lag.
Why else would they limit it? This will create problems in the future: spreading out the population on less populated servers : like extreme long waiting times for scenarios to open up.
 

In my opinion that's the ONLY reason WAR makers left out the 4 other capitols: too few people per server to have room for 6 besieged capitols. With only 500 people maximum to spread out over 4 Tiers with 6 capitols was just asking too much.

Every copy sold of WAR is extra publicity for WotLK seems very logical btw. Just think a bit.

Just to clear up the 'timelines' for Lake Wintergrasp.   This is still in beta

The fight starts every 4 hours, the attacking team has 45 mins to capture the keep.  This includes building up seige weapons, destroying stuff etc.  After the 45 mins, the winning side gets access to a bunch of features.   There are also other features around that can still be fought over after the main event.

THIS IS IMPORTANT:    many beta testers feel that the 4 hours is too long to wait.  There are a ton of posts on the beta forums about it and  I'd be willing to bet that it will be reduced to 2 hours.     So basically half your time would be spent doing the actual battle, and half would be spent reaping the rewards of winning (access to vendors, boss mobs etc).

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Azrile

Ok,  Thanks for explaining that.

Yeah.  Lake Wintergrasp isn't permanent, it resets every 4 hours.  So you won't have the situation where people destroy the walls and force the owner to abandon or repair it.   Also the seige weapons in WOW aren't that easy to come by.  I doubt there will be 20 pounding away at a single part of the wall.  In order for that to happen, the people who got them early would have to sit around idle for a long time waiting for others to get one... given that the combat only lasts 45 mins ( probably will be bumped to an hour though).. I doubt people will want to sit around very long.

The other poster cleared up what I meant by ' every tier is the same'.    While you can say ' why fix what isn't broken'.. the same can be said for WSG and AB (the two most boring battlegrounds).  As games get better, they get more innovative, and players will get bored with old mechanisms.   I really think Warhammer is going to have a longevity problem with their seige mechanisms.   Will players heart get racing the 100th time they knock down the same doors of a keep.   That should be the ultimate experience of Warhammer, yet it will be something players have done at lvl 1 too.  The seige mechanisms should get progressively more complicated as you move up in tiers.  

And the previous poster was right about scenarios.  While AB and WSG are pretty lame, all Warhammer did was take the worst WOW BGs and cut the map to a smaller size to make it faster.   I didn't see a single scenario that was at all innovative.  The new "Normandy" battleground in WOW is pretty amazing.  I think for Warhammer being 4 years newer than WOW, it shouldn't have regressed to using WOW's worst BG's as it's inspiration.. it should have been pushing the envelope.   I just honeslty don't see how a WOW pvper could switch to Warhammer and be limited to WSG/AB type games rather than come back to WOW for Normandy and Lake Wintergrasp.

Well the first High elf scenario is huge, and once you take both points this blast covers most of the area and you have to run or get killed.  I thought it was a lot of fun and I hate BG's Im all about world PvP. The reason why they didn't push the envelope on the scenarios is the game isn't about battle grounds its about Wold PvP.  Its about taking taking over the other territor not sitting in an instance battleground killing people for no good reason. 

 

How exactly do you get siege weapons in WoW?  I havent kept up on that since I quit playin the game for Warhammer.

i am not sure how you get the seige weapons there are a number of seige work shops in wintergrasp that are capture'able but how the weapons spawn I am not sure, do yuo collect resources? or is it on a timer?, there are ranks required for each vechical, players earn rank buffs from PvPing.

here are some videos fomr the latest build. note LW is not finished and is beta servers are a lagg fest at peek. these 2 vids focus on fighting at the keep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMAKODTrQ80 ( mostly PvP )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex02XenQME0 (first half land siege vehicals)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K2EDD6r5N8 (knocking down walls)

Originally posted by Azrile

Just to clear up the 'timelines' for Lake Wintergrasp.   This is still in beta

The fight starts every 4 hours, the attacking team has 45 mins to capture the keep.  This includes building up seige weapons, destroying stuff etc.  After the 45 mins, the winning side gets access to a bunch of features.   There are also other features around that can still be fought over after the main event.

THIS IS IMPORTANT:    many beta testers feel that the 4 hours is too long to wait.  There are a ton of posts on the beta forums about it and  I'd be willing to bet that it will be reduced to 2 hours.     So basically half your time would be spent doing the actual battle, and half would be spent reaping the rewards of winning (access to vendors, boss mobs etc).

Sigh, everyone is in beta ...

I would certainly vote for the 4 hour wait. I hope Blizzard doesn't listen to the whiners!!!

The worst for an MMORPG designer team is listen too much to the so called "whiners". It's Blizzard that makes the games, not some teenage kid who thinks he knows it all.

And I certainly hope they will NOT start with things like "instant" PQ and cut out flying paths etc... just to be "rapidly on the action". Instant action and no gameplay after 2 months is the least I would want from WOW.

Originally posted by coffee

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMAKODTrQ80 ( mostly PvP )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex02XenQME0 (first half land siege vehicals)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K2EDD6r5N8 (knocking down walls)

 

Viewing this ... and I am speechless.

Wow. They raised the action in MMORPG's once more.

Incredible (for once I"ll control myself and not publish this on the WAR forum).

They would get a heart attack I suppose :))))

WL will blow any PVP competiton for the next 2 years out of the water.

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by Azrile

Just to clear up the 'timelines' for Lake Wintergrasp.   This is still in beta

The fight starts every 4 hours, the attacking team has 45 mins to capture the keep.  This includes building up seige weapons, destroying stuff etc.  After the 45 mins, the winning side gets access to a bunch of features.   There are also other features around that can still be fought over after the main event.

THIS IS IMPORTANT:    many beta testers feel that the 4 hours is too long to wait.  There are a ton of posts on the beta forums about it and  I'd be willing to bet that it will be reduced to 2 hours.     So basically half your time would be spent doing the actual battle, and half would be spent reaping the rewards of winning (access to vendors, boss mobs etc).

 

Sigh, everyone is in beta ...

I would certainly vote for the 4 hour wait. I hope Blizzard doesn't listen to the whiners!!!

The worst for an MMORPG designer team is listen too much to the so called "whiners". It's Blizzard that makes the games, not some teenage kid who thinks he knows it all.

And I certainly hope they will NOT start with things like "instant" PQ and cut out flying paths etc... just to be "rapidly on the action". Instant action and no gameplay after 2 months is the least I would want from WOW.

I wouldn't say it is whining.  I'm undecided on the issue, but this is the point they are making.

1.  If it stays at 4 hrs, that means for 3/4's of the time, the 'pvp zone' will be mostly used for pve type activites.

2. If a player can only play for 2 or 3 hours a night, that means there is a good chance they will miss the 'pvp' completely.... or there is a good chance the majority of their time will be 'waiting' for the pvp to start.

3. This part is the 'whiny' part.   One of the reasons people think that they have such a long delay is so players have time to complete the pve objectives and utilize the 'rewards of winning'.  Of course it doesn't sit well with the pvpers that they are being delayed so pvers can reap the rewards. (again, this is the whiny side of the argument, but it is still valid in a way).

4. Another part of the argument is that there currently isn't enough to do in Wintergrasp for the 3hrs of downtime.  They are adding more quests and objectives.. but that will mostly be pve type stuff.  I think a lot of pvpers don't want to feel like they have to leave the zone after the seige.  Then it starts to feel more like  a BG then open world pvp.   You do LW, then you go run AV and Normandy a few times, then you come back and do LW again. .... that totally makes it feel like just another BG.   A lot of players (myself included) want a true open-world pvp zone that has active pvp all the time.. that is not the case with 4hrs since most of the pvpers will leave after the seige to do bgs

Warhammer will always have better PVP, Mythic has been doing it longer than blizzard and they know how to do it right, wow's pvp is weak.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by Azrile

Just to clear up the 'timelines' for Lake Wintergrasp.   This is still in beta

The fight starts every 4 hours, the attacking team has 45 mins to capture the keep.  This includes building up seige weapons, destroying stuff etc.  After the 45 mins, the winning side gets access to a bunch of features.   There are also other features around that can still be fought over after the main event.

THIS IS IMPORTANT:    many beta testers feel that the 4 hours is too long to wait.  There are a ton of posts on the beta forums about it and  I'd be willing to bet that it will be reduced to 2 hours.     So basically half your time would be spent doing the actual battle, and half would be spent reaping the rewards of winning (access to vendors, boss mobs etc).

 

Sigh, everyone is in beta ...

I would certainly vote for the 4 hour wait. I hope Blizzard doesn't listen to the whiners!!!

The worst for an MMORPG designer team is listen too much to the so called "whiners". It's Blizzard that makes the games, not some teenage kid who thinks he knows it all.

And I certainly hope they will NOT start with things like "instant" PQ and cut out flying paths etc... just to be "rapidly on the action". Instant action and no gameplay after 2 months is the least I would want from WOW.

 

I wouldn't say it is whining.  I'm undecided on the issue, but this is the point they are making.

1.  If it stays at 4 hrs, that means for 3/4's of the time, the 'pvp zone' will be mostly used for pve type activites.

2. If a player can only play for 2 or 3 hours a night, that means there is a good chance they will miss the 'pvp' completely.... or there is a good chance the majority of their time will be 'waiting' for the pvp to start.

3. This part is the 'whiny' part.   One of the reasons people think that they have such a long delay is so players have time to complete the pve objectives and utilize the 'rewards of winning'.  Of course it doesn't sit well with the pvpers that they are being delayed so pvers can reap the rewards. (again, this is the whiny side of the argument, but it is still valid in a way).

4. Another part of the argument is that there currently isn't enough to do in Wintergrasp for the 3hrs of downtime.  They are adding more quests and objectives.. but that will mostly be pve type stuff.  I think a lot of pvpers don't want to feel like they have to leave the zone after the seige.  Then it starts to feel more like  a BG then open world pvp.   You do LW, then you go run AV and Normandy a few times, then you come back and do LW again. .... that totally makes it feel like just another BG.   A lot of players (myself included) want a true open-world pvp zone that has active pvp all the time.. that is not the case with 4hrs since most of the pvpers will leave after the seige to do bgs

There will be pvp going on most of the time, leading up to the 45min event and after, not like every will be instantly teleported to LW 3mins before the fight starts people will be gathering and zerg groups will form a good while before the event and after.

LW could be a huge fail ony time will tell, but I am looking forward to it.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by bodypass

The size of a poststamp and still lagging as hell, the moment you fight with 8 players on screen.

Every WAR copy sold is free publicity for WotLK. And the lay-out and thoughts above show why.

 

 

If you start lagging with 8 people on the screen, its your PC that can't handle it. You see, I can still play lag-free with 20 people bunched up together, casting their stuff at eachother. Don't even start blaming the game for your system's shortcomings (And now I suppose you will respond by stating your l33t specs, which will be a lie).

And here's my motto: Every person saying that every WAR copy sold is free publicity for WotLK, is an idiot.

My 2 cents :).

 

Edited for spelling.

Another 11 yr old WAR fanboi go back to your mindless zerg of a game, move along troll!!

Originally posted by djnexus

Warhammer will always have better PVP, Mythic has been doing it longer than blizzard and they know how to do it right, wow's pvp is weak.

IMHO WAR does not have better PVP just more of it.

Originally posted by coffee

Originally posted by djnexus

Warhammer will always have better PVP, Mythic has been doing it longer than blizzard and they know how to do it right, wow's pvp is weak.

 

IMHO WAR does not have better PVP just more of it.

Only if you are on a High Pop server, if you went to a low pop server there is nothing except 1-4 hour long waits for scenarios and zero RvR in Teir 2! 

Originally posted by Dreadblade

Originally posted by coffee

Originally posted by djnexus

Warhammer will always have better PVP, Mythic has been doing it longer than blizzard and they know how to do it right, wow's pvp is weak.

 

IMHO WAR does not have better PVP just more of it.

 

Only if you are on a High Pop server, if you went to a low pop server there is nothing except 1-4 hour long waits for scenarios and zero RvR in Teir 2! 

Yeah, Mythic really didn't learn from some of it's biggest mistakes in DAoC.    Faction imbalances will totally ruin Warhammer if they don't fix it.  So far, almost every server is dominated by one faction.  What is happening is that the losing side isn't even trying now, they are just pveing and avoiding pvp.   This will continue as each server gets 'defined' by it's dominate side.  If a player wants to play their order character, they will log into the server where order is dominating.. if they want to play their destro character they will log into a different server.  There will not be competitive pvp except in the scenarios, which will have increasingly longer queues.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Dreadblade

Originally posted by coffee

Originally posted by djnexus

Warhammer will always have better PVP, Mythic has been doing it longer than blizzard and they know how to do it right, wow's pvp is weak.

 

IMHO WAR does not have better PVP just more of it.

 

Only if you are on a High Pop server, if you went to a low pop server there is nothing except 1-4 hour long waits for scenarios and zero RvR in Teir 2! 

 

Yeah, Mythic really didn't learn from some of it's biggest mistakes in DAoC.    Faction imbalances will totally ruin Warhammer if they don't fix it.  So far, almost every server is dominated by one faction.  What is happening is that the losing side isn't even trying now, they are just pveing and avoiding pvp.   This will continue as each server gets 'defined' by it's dominate side.  If a player wants to play their order character, they will log into the server where order is dominating.. if they want to play their destro character they will log into a different server.  There will not be competitive pvp except in the scenarios, which will have increasingly longer queues.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

Sigh.. why feel the trolls. here we go.

I am in a low / low and I wait max 5 min for a pvp round. That is only if I am not in the open world PVP cities in every zone that is open to play at any time.

There is also a cap on sides so 1 side cannot max.

Also if your side has lets say 200 people more then then other side your side gets bonuses to even things.

Lets also say everything is even but horde is owning alliance. Horde get bonuses to cash gain and exp as well as pvp exp, morale boost and AP boost.

The losing alliance side gets boosts to there health, dmg and lesser penalties. The system is designed so the more your side gets owned the more boost the game gives you to make it  " easier " to retake things.

Of course this is only for the global battle and not the fun little pvp instance battles you can go in. " click a button from anywhere on the planet and you pop over  then back after the match ends."

I love WoW. I love WAR. I doubt it but i really hope to god WAR is what WOW needs to push out bigger and better patches. I have a sad feeling it will be another 4 years until bliz puts out anything really huge and I know they will not work on another MMO until this one dies down. I love WoW. But I would LOVE to see WoW2 or World of starcraft come out eventually.