This is an age old problem and nothing unique to Warhammer.

Sure it winds me up when I'm playing a tank, I'm on about 25% health and a healer rocks up and I'm taking on 3 guys (I think to myself "I'm saved") and then the first thing the healer does is start to wail on the guys.... I die, then the healer dies... Oh, I wonder if that could have gone differently.

This post is directed at that fuckhead Archmage who should have rolled a Bright Wizard. Thanks. ;)

Originally posted by Noggin

This is an age old problem and nothing unique to Warhammer.

 

Sure it winds me up when I'm playing a tank, I'm on about 25% health and a healer rocks up and I'm taking on 3 guys (I think to myself "I'm saved") and then the first the the healer does is start to wail on the guys.... I die, then the healer dies... Oh, I wonder if that could have gone differently.

 

This post is directed at that fuckhead Archmage who should have rolled a Bright Wizard. Thanks. ;)

Haha bro thats awsome

Um yeah the healers are not healing much other than themselves.  Only some were doing much a decent job.

But also they are not meant to exclusively heal or they are much less effective.  It will take some time for people to feel it all out and get used to it.

An ARchrmage that sits back and heals is actually a worse clutch healer than a nuker.  In general if therre are multiple AM probably they should get together and decide who is burst healing and who is burst damage and who is maintenance healing and maybe someone doing a bit of both..

To be fair other people are not setting up proper tactics with healers and are doing things to make things difficult as well.

For example i kept breaking a WP line of sight on my tank in one engangement.  Partially that was from lag.  I really had to relog it was just too choppy and i could not tell what was going, but also I didn't know he was even healing me.  But there was a huge zerg aon both sides and people wre going all over the place.

I was a little harsh in my example, I'm not saying that healers shouldn't deal damage, the Shaman, Archmage, Warrior Priest, Disciple of Khaine all become better healers or actually need to do this to maintain healing when they're hurting things as well.

When everyone is pretty much topped up on health go batshit crazy and have a ball, but the priority for a healer, surprisingly enough, is to heal.

I like playing a healer, did it in DAoC, EQ2, CoX, WOW and just about any other MMO. Mostly out of neccesity (someone has to do it) and I'm a good healer. Oddly enough due to healers being actually viable and needed and thus played alot I (get to) to play something else :P

But I'm sure at some point I'll get annoyed again and go "ok, I'll do it" and roll a RP :P

Originally posted by gestalt11

To be fair other people are not setting up proper tactics with healers and are doing things to make things difficult as well.

For example i kept breaking a WP line of sight on my tank in one engangement.  Partially that was from lag.

I agree, it's all about communication and tactics.

I'm curious though, as a Warrior Priest is a front line healer and should have been beating on pretty much the same guy as you, how did you keep losing line of sight?

First, I dont like this attitude of telling people what to do. Sure, in an ideal world we would all stick to the roles, but everyone no matter what class he plays sometimes does something different. It maybe stupid, it may be clever, all depending on the situation. But essentially everyone has his own reasons to play a class, and with the three builds every class has, someone may build a "Healer" and focus on damage doing, but chose to be healer to keep himself alife. I played in healers in beta, and I heal as I can, I was always TABing through the ppl, but I am no healing machine! Sometimes people yelled at me "HEAL PLEASE", when I was already healing people. Its not that a healer is the mindless companion of others! And besides, if you study the WAR healers, ALL of them improve their heals a lot by fighting. The days of the old fashioned EQ healers who just stood in the background and stared at everyone's health bar are finally gone, and healers are brought more into the fight these days.

Healers like Bear Shaman from AoC or Disciple from Vanguard showed how versatile healers can be, and the WAR healers are also not just those "buff bots" healers used to be in the old days, at least not if you read the skills and see how they work.

And we live in a free world. A tank may stand back, a mage may run ahead. It may be risky and not helpful, but its not for us to judge.

Originally posted by Yunbei

And we live in a free world. A tank may stand back, a mage may run ahead. It may be risky and not helpful, but its not for us to judge.

In a way you're right, but I also disagree to a certain extent.

Warhammer is a team game and the character that you choose to play has a certain role to fulfill, just like in any sports team for comparison.

Imagine a goalkeeper in a football (soccer) match who refused to use his hands and only wanted to score goals.

In groups and (thus) RVR everyone has the responsiblity towards their group to not be a tool and to do his part. May sound elitist but DaoC PVPers will probably still remember that bit, it's called TEAMWORK.

Messing up running in front on your BW or (as I encountered in OB) an axe throwing tank running to hide behind others, non healing healers, non buffing buffers should learn to play their role. If they cba with doing that they essentially say FU to their realm mates.

If you mean more healers need to heal, yes, I agree.

If you mean the classes need to be better, I disagree.

I got an Archmage to 17 in Open beta. In Tier 2 scenarios I would average about 8k damage and 58K healing. In  Tier 1 scenarios it was more like 12K to 28K.

In Tier 2, the only time I was outhealed was by a Runepriest, who would do around 1K damage and 62K healing.

The biggest thing for new healers to learn is to set up the optional party health bar frames at the start of the scenario, so they can see everyone's health bars, and learn to select your defensive target by clicking on their health bar.

Spread the Heal over Times around. Know when to focus heal on people in trouble. Stay back from the fight (unless you are a melee healer). Keep yourself alive. Keep other healers alive. If you can fit it in in between the rest of it, spread some Damage over Time spells around the enemy.

Okay so I don't post a lot, and I haven't played in a while but when I played my shaman (only to level 8) Dps didn't make me a more efficient healer at all. My understanding is that you use a dps spell, and you get combo points to your healing meter. Those combo points would get spent when you cast a heal...however it wasn't at all efficient to dps then heal.

What was efficient was to heal, then you'd work up to an instant cast dps/boosted dot which was efficient. Was I doing something wrong/ too low of a level? But anyways if I'm not horrendously wrong, people should heal 5/6 spells they cast...

It feels to me like the heals are constructed in such a way that you can and should do a bit of both. The biggest and most effective heals contain all or some sort of hot effect pop a couple of those and your target should be living for a while longer then blast a few dots of instant cast deeps spells on a soft target and then heal again and rinse and repeat.

Originally posted by Drezeks

when I played my shaman (only to level 8) Dps didn't make me a more efficient healer at all. My understanding is that you use a dps spell, and you get combo points to your healing meter. Those combo points would get spent when you cast a heal...however it wasn't at all efficient to dps then heal.

Your... Shaman?  I'm confused.  You know this is the Warhammer Online boards, right?  Even then, I didn't know Shaman in WoW got combo points.

Anywho, the rules are different here than in other MMORPGs.  Healers in WO:AR have a dual purpose.  You need to heal because you're probably the only one who can restore people's health bars in the heat of battle, yes.  However you also need to be milking your secondary function: Tanking for Warrior Priests.  Buffs/Debuffs for Rune Priests.  Nuking for Archmages.

The Archmage especially is this way because their Tranquality/Force combo system beefs up the potency if their spells if they switch between heals and nukes.  If they only heal or they only nuke, they'll be less than twice as effective because they lose that other fascet and they also lose the combo bonus.

I'm absolutley positive that there is a shaman class in warhammer, so uhh...Don't know why you thought I was talking about WoW. Shamans get combo points in warhammer...

Oh, sure enough there is.  Those little guys are easy to overlook :)

Playing as a Shaman

As a Shaman, you’ll have to walk a careful line in balancing your offensive and support abilities. You can achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on that skill exclusively. You can maximize your rate of damage by focusing purely on those abilities. However, focusing on a single talent will lessen your overall impact on the battle. The strength your support skills gain from an ongoing Waaagh! is significant. Using your offensive magic to contribute directly to the fight will increase the power of your support magic, allowing you to better help your group.

Sounds like this is one guy who can be dedicated healer if you want him to be.

Originally posted by geldonyetich

Your... Shaman?  I'm confused.  You know this is the Warhammer Online boards, right?  Even then, I didn't know Shaman in WoW got combo points.

www.warhammeronline.com/armiesofWAR/greenskins/GoblinShaman.php

Oops?... lol

I guess I'll have to try other healing classes to see if they favor dps more evenly with healing than a shaman. Though I prefer to mostly heal, it would be interesting for more of these conversations (that are bound to happen).

Originally posted by Drezeks

I guess I'll have to try other healing classes to see if they favor dps more evenly with healing than a shaman. Though I prefer to mostly heal, it would be interesting for more of these conversations (that are bound to happen).

Zealots and Runepriests are your typical healer. (no need to DPS)

Shamans and Archmages are nuker / healers. (Can DPS or pure heal / DPS can improve healing)

Warrior Priests and Disciple of Khaine are melee healers. (Must DPS to maintain healing)

Zealots are just like shammys imho.

Originally posted by Ackbar

Zealots are just like shammys imho.

Please elaborate on how you came to that conclusion.