Originally posted by rikilii

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by SirLorn

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

 

I've seen a guy wearing plate armour do a backflip. It's evenly distributed weight and not as heavy as you think it is. It is tiring however so you can't do a whole lot of it without resting.

 

Did you ever see someone in plate armor repeatedly bounce 4 feet in the air?

Have you ever seen someone not in plate armor repeatedly bounce 4 feet in the air?

Ive been doing this since i started playing doom deathmatch.In most MMO's you have to be facing your target to attack so if i can jump around and circle strafe and make it hard for you to hit me then im gonna do it.Im competitive and want to win and dont care what makes you mad when were fighting in a game.I will use every advantage i have.Is that not why we pvp to have a challenge and try to find ways to come out on top and best the opposition?

      I hated bunny hopping in WoW....To me it was a cowardly move.....I'd rather have someone run away than bunny hop like an idiot......As for spinning I only saw it a couple times...once it was a level 42 paladin and I had a 49 shaman....I thought heck I;m 7 levels higher I should own him....he then killed me in one hit while he was spinning.....I'm sure it was a hack as then I watched and he killed every single player in one shot throughout the entire scenario and was spinning the entire time.......

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

A few people have come back at my original post and reminded me that the MMO world isn't in fact real combat so anything goes - realism is not important, but fun is.

Still, I notice that in other games the use of realistic physics engines can make the gameplay more satisfying. I personally feel that combat would be more interesting if it provided methods for distacting or dodging the enemy that were more believeable.

The same is true in Cinema, films like Lord of the Rings work even with magic because there is consistency in the way things behave. They still have some respect for the laws of physics, and bend them rather than simply ignore them.

To be honest, I'm not looking for a perfect simulation. I just happen to think that all this hopping and spinning looks downright stupid. I'm not trying to remove people's opportunities in PvP, but I still think it could be done with face-to-face close combat.

(BTW, this is not a 'me' VS 'them' post. In order to complete at PvP I've adopted the same strategies and use them to help my fights, but it just feels so wrong, it just doesn't look anything like real fighting to me).

 

I understand and agree with everything you are saying. I also think that jumping around in PVP looks stupid. Thats why Lineage 2 still has the best PVP of any game available because the PVP is face to face with nobody jumping all on top of the other persons head like he playing Super Mario Bros. Of course these are games but at least try make the PVP look as realistic as possible.

Originally posted by SirLorn

SO, Bigdavo, you say that you do this out of habbit in .....what?!  Are you refering to multiple MMOS?!  Or just WoW?  

From my experience, it comes more from folks that look for each and every way to gain the upper hand in games, regardless.

  In VG for example, the only "bunny" hopping you will come across in PvP are cheap arse Monks that use a sploit to remove DoTs after they have macro one shot'd their opponent.   Do not get me wrong, VG is FAR from balanced.   Heh, but my point is, the combat can be pretty damn intense and fun as hell,  as long as your fighting someone that wants some challenge.

  You say you do this out of habbit, regardless of whatever MMO you play,  try and break your habit, heh.....and see if you still come out on "top" as much.....if so, well then, no need for your "Peter cotton tail" manuevers, ehhh?!

I suspect that BigDavo was referring to  the habit of bunny hopping in FPSs rather than other mmos.....

As for me, occasionally bunny hopping is handy to get past tanks and reach the squishies in games with collision detection....like CoX or WAR....

Its WoW PvP Reloaded

www.youtube.com/watch

Originally posted by Sicc1

Ive been doing this since i started playing doom deathmatch.In most MMO's you have to be facing your target to attack so if i can jump around and circle strafe and make it hard for you to hit me then im gonna do it.Im competitive and want to win and dont care what makes you mad when were fighting in a game.I will use every advantage i have.Is that not why we pvp to have a challenge and try to find ways to come out on top and best the opposition?

^ This.

People do it because it works.  It's also more entertaining.  I can't imagine how it could be fun to have two characters facing each other auto attacking while I hit hot keys.  You do that against mobs, but there is a reason why fighting a person is more challenging than fighting brainless exp fodder.

If there was some new magical physics engine - for a MMO no less - that would add all sorts of realism, benefits, and cons and turn a clash of steel into a true clash of steel then that would be incredible.  Go back and forth parrying, attempting to take an opening, fainting an opening, the whole nine yards...  That would be incredible.

That's not going to happen.  People still have computers that have such old hardware that they're unsure of whether or not their computer is going to run the WoW expansion.

Until we're all on incredible machines we'll have to make do with what's what.  Until that time, if my bouncing around annoys you then all the better.  That just means that I'm getting into your head.

Originally posted by Dagon13

Originally posted by rikilii

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by SirLorn

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

 

I've seen a guy wearing plate armour do a backflip. It's evenly distributed weight and not as heavy as you think it is. It is tiring however so you can't do a whole lot of it without resting.

 

Did you ever see someone in plate armor repeatedly bounce 4 feet in the air?

 

Have you ever seen someone not in plate armor repeatedly bounce 4 feet in the air?

No but then why would they? They will however jump, roll, slide, drop, circle strafe and pivot. The problem isn't the action itself it's that the game permits you to use it unbelievably. People in armor do not fight flat footed facing each other trading blows. Forcing them to do so in a game is just as absurd as bunny hopping.  

Lol, do none of you even watch any sort of boxing or fighting sport?

EVERYONE CIRCLES THEIR OPPONENT.

Here ill make it so you can read it better.

EVERYONE CIRCLES THEIR OPPONENT!!!

Now do you wonder why?  To watch for the person to have a part of their body unbalanced at to look for openinings.

Saying you shouldn't circle straif in games is dumb as hell.  Ive never not circled someone in a fight to try and find a weak point.  People claiming this Head on Head shit is complete crap.  Trading hits is stupid.  Thus getting behind your opponent is a great strategy. 

The only sport that trades hit for hit is boxing, and boxers get their ass handed to them by any other form of fighting.

---

Originally posted by sanicek
wasd + cone of fire (swing/cast/whatever) +pvp = fps analogue pvp = circle strafing

---

Hey OP, it's a game... you know, not real.

Your analogy is flawed for a simple reason as well... Lag.  I'm going to do less damage to someone because they're lagged and not actually facing the direction I see them?  Sounds like a blast O_o

Originally posted by Miner-2049er
*snip snip*

...I gather the Romans, and the Greeks knew a bit about warfare and yet they never trained their soldiers to approach the enemy jumping and spinning.....

 

i gather the romans and greeks most definitely trained their soldiers to use evasive maneuvers, as they are equally as important in combat as delivering a successful attack... i gather they must have trained them how to evade and attack at the same time, too

People are never happy, If a game has bunny hoping and Fps controls people complain that the combat is lame and unrealistic.

If the combat has auto facing and both opponents have to stand stationary to each other people say combat is slow and boring.

Imo Bunny hoping is lame it looks freaking retarded, personally I wished all abilities would grey out when someone jumped... but thats just how i feel.

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

I'm watched a few WAR videos like this one (chosen at random, it's nothing special)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHAGtyNMz8

... and I'm so bored of these ridiculous fight moves. Is this the new generation of PvP?

I gather the Romans, and the Greeks knew a bit about warfare and yet they never trained their soldiers to approach the enemy jumping and spinning.

1) A player in full armour should not be able to jump

2) A player in full armour should not be able to spin around someone without them getting a free hit.

3) In order to actualy hit a target, the target should be within a limited arc of the sword arm, and in range. A poor angle should reduce the damage done.

4) If a jumping soldier is hit (as a light armour melee) he would most likely fall over due to poor balance in the stance, This would leave the opponent a good change for a free hit.

5) Running round a person is clearly slower than rotating a small amount to face someone, so unless you have just dodged a lunge of some form you should not be able to strike the opposition from the side.

I actually like PvP in MMOs but the actual PvP we get on screen is an embarrasing parody of combat and looks more like some bizarre dance game. Isn't it about time the PvP we got looked at least a little bit sensible.

 

 

Your points are good, except for the 3rd one that does not jive with the others.  Your want to make it so people do not jump, spin or move around you, and yet you still want to implement basically line of sight and reach.  Well guess what if your going to have line of sight and reach limitations than the best way for someone to kill is to run around you.
 

Venge Sunsoar

Originally posted by unknown22

Originally posted by Miner-2049er
*snip snip*

...I gather the Romans, and the Greeks knew a bit about warfare and yet they never trained their soldiers to approach the enemy jumping and spinning.....

 

 

i gather the romans and greeks most definitely trained their soldiers to use evasive maneuvers, as they are equally as important in combat as delivering a successful attack... i gather they must have trained them how to evade and attack at the same time, too

Your right while they probably did not have them juming and spinning while running up to the army, they most certainly did teach them to jump and spin, if appropriate to the situation, while actually engaged.

Of course the romans had much better success because they developed unit fighting, so it was no longer just a bunch of people in duels, there was no need for jumping and spinning because your neighbours on either side were also protecting you.

Venge Sunsoar

some guy did this to me, i just stood my ground, autofaced him while he ran around in circles and beat him down.

Thats why its a game!!!!!  If you want realistic go join the army. 

1)as for not being able to jump in full armor. Ok understandable if your wearing plate but that would not be fun even more so on a long run from point a to b.

2)again would not be fun. why dont we just say take away  an engi's torret cause we all know that's impossible and for magic wow  thats gone.. sry healers and caster now you throw rocks.

3)i agree with range but other then that just hell no.

4) that would be funny as hell.

5) you really are trying to take the fun out of  all G-A-M-E-S !!!!

heres some advise wait for darkfall  or you will be disapointed time and time again.

I always thought jumping in most MMO's was kinda pointless....

my understanding is that jumping and strafing are evasive maneuvers.

unfortunately there are lots and lots of people who exploit the ever living shiz out of these evasive maneuvers, thusly making it unfair for those who refuse to learn or have not yet learned how to evade an attack.

i definitely agree that there should indeed be a limitation as to how much you can evade, such as setting up a stam penalty and damage damper while using the evasive maneuvers, as well as damage boosters for those who are standing still, so everyone in the match has a fair chance.

but for those who don't like jumpers... all i can say is, stop whining about it in the mean time until they end the exploiting, and LEARN HOW TO DO IT TOOOOO!