Originally posted by greyendal

Originally posted by PinkCat

My educated guess...

I think it is the best decision for the  business side of the house .  However, from the game play slash consumer perspective, it may be a very risky decision.

Now hear me out before you go ape shit on me.  The features they announced are many great core features that are selling points for the expansion.  Them making this announcement has actually blown me away. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve and have a secret sideshow...  they may be hurting the expansion.

The expansion would be merely 10 more levels, Wintergrasp (PvP), a Deathknight, a handfull of 5 mans, a couple raids, and more faction.  Seems kind of weak in my opinon, that will get old fast and the burnout syndrome will come quicker than TBC.

 

Also it will mess with WAR subscriptions to some degree. Many people are going to play WAR as a temporary filler while they wait for their beloved Blizzard:WoTLK.  Im one of these individuals as well as my whole guild.

I will not ramble on any longer, at the end of the day it is a left wing move.

 

Do you really expect people to want to read your crap color text?

Talk to a doctor, your crap shouldn't be pink.

Not that this matters:  I have played WoW many times.  I did not play on release, I chose EQ2... which was fun, but was rushed, and thus failed @ launch.  I didn't have the willpower to stick it out until it became stable.  I had 2 60s pre BC, sold that account and went back to EQ2.  Then 3 70s post BC.  Sold that account, stumbled around EQ2, EQ1 progression, DAoC, CABAL, LOTRO, you name it.  >> 3 more 70s on WoW.  Sold that, CS:S'd, AoC'd for a while.  Resub'd to WoW to play with a friend, canceled again.

My reasons for disliking WoW (not hating) are as follows.
:Lack of Originality.  Doesn't it seem odd that Blizzard manages to have all of the distinguishing concepts of ALL others games, about the same time that those games come out?  WoW at launch was a noobed down version of EQ1... with a minor graphical update.  Expansions are basically like Blizzard reaching their hand into each new game, and snagging its core concept, dumbing it down, and throwing into WoW as a side-game.

:Everything is a time-sink.  Cap on arena points per week, lockout timers, gear checks.  The timeline is not playerdriven.  You either progress at a decent rate (hardcore - semi hardcore guilds), or you miss out on the action before the new expansion.  Minor upgrades from PVP arena seasons... Dangling that carrot.

:Gear > Skill.  This mixed with point 2 = Time > Skill. 

:PVP = cookie-cutter combos.  Nearly impossible to make an oddball combo succeed.  Therefor playing with friends is a game of hit or miss.... did they make the right class to coop with yours?  Do you want to play with friends, or do good? Pick one.

I like WoW, I've played it A LOT!  But as soon as another option opens, I try it out and cross my fingers that it will hold my attention longer then WoW... because IMO, there is a lot of room for improvements.

I see alot of posts here about how excited and happy people are with blizz for this upcomming free content...Am I the only one that see's that this is not free?  One thing that has really jaded me with wow is that very factor. I pay $15 a month and outside of 3 actual content updates in 4 years all i get is a tuesday morning away from the game and CONSTANT "balancing". I don't really call balancing totally rehashing classes but whatever.

I just am really turned off by the amount of revenue this game has generated vs. how far the game has progressed.  To top it off it takes four years to get a new class but with the state of "balance" now there goes any hopes of content not loaded on a new disk. DK's are going to hit BG's and the tears will flow.  Its a game based on grouping and gearing at its core. But with all this carrot on a stick pvp purples its taking over the pve servers also. I was on a 50 level paladin of mine not that long ago and was looking for a sunken temple group. Every player in the queue was either a rogue, hunter or (i can't tank i do dmg) arms warrior.

I tried WAR but i'm not on the boat with that game. World of roguecraft has me extremely jaded. Thank god the force unleashed is comming soon.

Have to disagree with ya there, ThePhil.  Customization of *any* kind to a toon is a HUGE selling point in a MMO.  People like to be able to customize their toons...period.  The more customization, the better.  To your statement regarding everyone wearing a helmet at lvl 20+? Yeah, for the most part, you're correct.  However, there are many that hide helmet, while there are many head pieces that do not cover the entire head.  To be honest, the full-head helmets are normally reserved for the mail/full plate armor sets, which still leaves the cloth and leather (headbands anyone?) sets that would, potentially, *show off* that nice haircut!  Also, do not forget that there are several RP-ing servers/guilds where this customization will be a huge selling point.  Peace.

Originally posted by valkerus

I see alot of posts here about how excited and happy people are with blizz for this upcomming free content...Am I the only one that see's that this is not free?  One thing that has really jaded me with wow is that very factor. I pay $15 a month and outside of 3 actual content updates in 4 years all i get is a tuesday morning away from the game and CONSTANT "balancing". I don't really call balancing totally rehashing classes but whatever.

I just am really turned off by the amount of revenue this game has generated vs. how far the game has progressed.  To top it off it takes four years to get a new class but with the state of "balance" now there goes any hopes of content not loaded on a new disk. DK's are going to hit BG's and the tears will flow.  Its a game based on grouping and gearing at its core. But with all this carrot on a stick pvp purples its taking over the pve servers also. I was on a 50 level paladin of mine not that long ago and was looking for a sunken temple group. Every player in the queue was either a rogue, hunter or (i can't tank i do dmg) arms warrior.

I tried WAR but i'm not on the boat with that game. World of roguecraft has me extremely jaded. Thank god the force unleashed is comming soon.

Look, the sad truth is that BC did hurt the old world dungeons and grouping for old world dungeons.  However, that issue *is* being addressed.  Some of the old-world dungeons (10-man) are being made 5-man.  Loot has been better since previous patches, where bosses now drop guaranteed blue(s). Regarding you not able to find a group for Sunken Temple? Find a good guild and join it.  Pug groups are more disappointment that satisfaction, anyway.  To be quite honest I'm starting to see more people actually forming groups for dungeons like Dire Maul, Scholomance, and Stratholme (of course could be just a bunch of paladins and warlocks attempting to get epic mounts :P).  Even saw someone wanting to go to Blackrock.  *shrugs*  My friends and I are working on alts and have already decided to *visit* these old-world dungeons just to experience them.  We're taking our time and enjoying the scenery so to speak.  By the way, my wife and I are playing Warhammer Beta and we love it.  But, as most MMO's usually do, we're going to wait a bit for the game to *mature* into itself before we make the move (which, ultimately, we probably will...Warhammer is *that* good imo).  I don't want to be one of those that keeps whining about *the good ole days* when you *used to be able to do* this or that....I want to play a good, fun, stable game.  And, I've played quite a few and I still keep coming back to WoW.  Yes, the crafting is simple.  Yes, it's very forgivable on character death.  Yes, it is easy at times.  But, ya know what?  I want it/like it that way.  I want the game I play to be *FUN*.  I work 5-6 days a week.  I don't want to have to *work* on my game.  I want to play to have...you guessed it...FUN.  For those of you that call yourself the Hardcore Elite Gamers: keep your two-hour corpse runs.  Keep your experience-loss-on-toon-death.  Keep all that hardcore bs.  I'll take the fun :P.  Peace.

Originally posted by DownMonkey

 "This will go a long way to counter claims that World of Warcraft lacks character customization"

 

Oh come on, you've got to be kidding?

Since EVERY player will be able to use the new abilities it DOES in fact lessen character customization.You are not customizing something if everyone is the same lol.Allowing every player to use the new scrolls or whatever form they end up taking takes away from CLASS definition.You might as well make a combat system where every class can do everything,that way there is no classes and it;s not even a MMORPG anymore.

That is the purpose of classes ,each has it's own abilities,that gives it definition.You think if everyone in the real world drove the exact same cars and they all had the exact same engines it would be fun/cool? no way.They should have brought in new abilities for EACH class,but in the way they do everything cheap,it was much easier to add very little and let everyone use it.That shows poor effort by there design staff.Some of these new abilities sound VERY powerful,like knockback,i can't see how you can just throw in new powerful attack ideas without re working the combat system.It sounds more to me like they just add things in with no thought at all,they try to guise there actions calling it new content,but it's all done meaningless.That's like adding in SIMS content and football content and everyone can fly in the game content,unless you plan it around the storyline[if there is one]and show some reason and thought into the added content,it looks like amateurs are doing it.

As usual they will build up it's hype and fool there player base as they usually do.....WHOA look at these cool new spells/potions we get..lol.I don't mind across the board stuff if it's in a First person shooter ,because that fits the design of the game and there is no classes.You don't add across the board stuff in a MMORPG and say here everyone can use it,like i said it looks like they were just too lazy to make content for each class,this was the simpler route.

Originally posted by Auzy

Games not for me....Too much gear grind, then they just raise level caps so its a continous gear grind.

  Gear grind....mm'kay.

I'm not really sure why the Warhammer fans think WAR is any different.  No...you're not grinding for heroic badges, raiding (necessarily), or grinding for honor marks.  No, instead of doing that assortment of things, you'll be grinding for RENOWN.  You have to have enough RENOWN to have the "right" to buy your renown rank gear.  There are also some PvE dungeons that will have....gear drops.  You'll get to roll on them.

Anyway....I tried War out during Preview, then again during OB plus, now again during OB, and....that's what I got for my 50 bucks, because....I won't be playing it.  It's the same thing, wrapped in a different "package", so to speak.

Unless something is vastly different, there's no reason for me to leave the characters I have in WoW, the effort and time invested in them, the wonderful people and guild I play with, and all my gold....for....something similar, with RvR instead of BGs, some public quests (admittedly fun), and crafting that is so simplistic that it makes WoW's crafting look like rocket science.  No thank you.

If (and WHEN) a game is released that really DOES have a tremendous amount of innovation and really grabs me when I play it....then I'll probably leave WoW.  Until then, for me....it's still the most fun thing out there, and I have 4 70s, a 60, and way too many 50 somethings.  But strangely enough.....I still find ways to have FUN.  Maybe I'm just in a better guild than some people are, or maybe ....we use our imaginations and come UP with creative things to do....idk.  But Warhammer just doesn't seem to "do it" for me.  Maybe the NEXT big game?  Time will tell.

It's not outside of the realm of possibilities for me, to play 2 or more MMOs at a time.  I've done it...a lot.  So really, with WAR....time will answer a lot for me.

WoW's next patch and the expansion though?  I'm all about that, and I WILL, for SURE, be buying and PLAYING that.  WoW's already established in my household....we all play it, so....regardless of what all is in the patch....we're still going to be there. :)

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by DownMonkey

 "This will go a long way to counter claims that World of Warcraft lacks character customization"

 

Oh come on, you've got to be kidding?

Since EVERY player will be able to use the new abilities it DOES in fact lessen character customization.You are not customizing something if everyone is the same lol.Allowing every player to use the new scrolls or whatever form they end up taking takes away from CLASS definition.You might as well make a combat system where every class can do everything,that way there is no classes and it;s not even a MMORPG anymore.

That is the purpose of classes ,each has it's own abilities,that gives it definition.You think if everyone in the real world drove the exact same cars and they all had the exact same engines it would be fun/cool? no way.They should have brought in new abilities for EACH class,but in the way they do everything cheap,it was much easier to add very little and let everyone use it.That shows poor effort by there design staff.Some of these new abilities sound VERY powerful,like knockback,i can't see how you can just throw in new powerful attack ideas without re working the combat system.It sounds more to me like they just add things in with no thought at all,they try to guise there actions calling it new content,but it's all done meaningless.That's like adding in SIMS content and football content and everyone can fly in the game content,unless you plan it around the storyline[if there is one]and show some reason and thought into the added content,it looks like amateurs are doing it.

As usual they will build up it's hype and fool there player base as they usually do.....WHOA look at these cool new spells/potions we get..lol.I don't mind across the board stuff if it's in a First person shooter ,because that fits the design of the game and there is no classes.You don't add across the board stuff in a MMORPG and say here everyone can use it,like i said it looks like they were just too lazy to make content for each class,this was the simpler route.

Sorry, I disagree.  Character customization allows a player (count 'em...one player) to customize his/her player to his/her preferences.  That is customization by definition.  So what if I customize my toon, and then you customize your toon only to discover that we chose identical avenues during our customization? I customized mine, and you customized yours.  That they are similar/identical changes nothing regarding the PROCESS of customization.  Now, it may not be ORIGINAL but everyone can't be different.  Also, I completely disagree that every class can use the same thing (concerning the new inscribe).  Blizzard has not only brought new talents to EACH class IN ADDITION to the inscribe ability/skill that will allow people the ability to CUSTOMIZE existing abilities, making each class build unique (depending on the player).  Of course there are only going to be a limited amount of different builds.   That's inevitable.  But, you cannot deny that this opens up many avenues of venture concerning classes/skills.

Concerning your lame attempt to call the player-base of WoW fools (one who has been *fooled*), as that is a very ignorant remark based on biased dislike of the game and the people who play it.  I play WoW because it's fun, plain and simple.  Hell, if they can fool me into *thinking* I'm having fun, what's the difference?  I'm either having fun, or....I think I'm having fun!  Win-Win situation.

Anyway, I say we wait until the game expansion comes out, play the thing, then decide whether to bash it or boast/toast it.

Peace.

I'd just like to comment that if blizzard is indeed delaying Wotlk further we would have seen a new tier instances not just random content that won't give the hardcore anything new to do.

Originally posted by greyendal

Do you really expect people to want to read your crap color text?

Yes.

Well I can speak only for myself.

Have been playing WoW intensely for about year and half. It is the first game to which I experimented true addiction. :-) But even of very good things one has in time enough. After two lv. 70, two 68 and all other remaining possible classes between 64 and 67 ... I was looking for something new. For now however nothing beats WoW in how realy complete package is in all senses, how fun, how interesting and fresh at all times .... And yes, graphics are cartoon style ... but I love them.

The best graphics as for realism goes for sure has AoC ... but a way most uncomplete package and constant beta feeling. Have been playing it for 2 months from start but then i left. Maybe at some time I will come back.

And for sure I would not leave Lich King for War! Have played open beta War, actually I like game. And will play it for some time. Graphics are kind of more realistic cartoon style, but far from realisim of AoC. Only that in EU beta start was one of the worst for now.  However in addition I have terrible lag problems with beta client with War. As my computer is a way far superior then minimum and runs smoothly even AoC (not to mention Wow) ... it is not my computer to blame or optic internet connection. As not so many players have this problem I guess there must be some kind of incompatibility with.

Lich king will be im sure great continuation of great game.

seems a LOT like they are scared of certain upcoming games. Hell all incoming reports suggest that WotLK is very very disapointing. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Originally posted by CPTAssistant

Not that this matters:  I have played WoW many times.  I did not play on release, I chose EQ2... which was fun, but was rushed, and thus failed @ launch.  I didn't have the willpower to stick it out until it became stable.  I had 2 60s pre BC, sold that account and went back to EQ2.  Then 3 70s post BC.  Sold that account, stumbled around EQ2, EQ1 progression, DAoC, CABAL, LOTRO, you name it.  >> 3 more 70s on WoW.  Sold that, CS:S'd, AoC'd for a while.  Resub'd to WoW to play with a friend, canceled again.

My reasons for disliking WoW (not hating) are as follows.
:Lack of Originality.  Doesn't it seem odd that Blizzard manages to have all of the distinguishing concepts of ALL others games, about the same time that those games come out?  WoW at launch was a noobed down version of EQ1... with a minor graphical update.  Expansions are basically like Blizzard reaching their hand into each new game, and snagging its core concept, dumbing it down, and throwing into WoW as a side-game.

:Everything is a time-sink.  Cap on arena points per week, lockout timers, gear checks.  The timeline is not playerdriven.  You either progress at a decent rate (hardcore - semi hardcore guilds), or you miss out on the action before the new expansion.  Minor upgrades from PVP arena seasons... Dangling that carrot.

:Gear > Skill.  This mixed with point 2 = Time > Skill. 

:PVP = cookie-cutter combos.  Nearly impossible to make an oddball combo succeed.  Therefor playing with friends is a game of hit or miss.... did they make the right class to coop with yours?  Do you want to play with friends, or do good? Pick one.

I like WoW, I've played it A LOT!  But as soon as another option opens, I try it out and cross my fingers that it will hold my attention longer then WoW... because IMO, there is a lot of room for improvements.

best post describing wow ever. especially the bit about reaching into new games. that is EXACTLY what they do, and sadly they dont even do it well. WoW has such potential, i mean the engine could be brilliant instead of dumbed down ok-ness. the story (for the most part) is so well written that it makes me cry they are wasting it on wow and not war 4. dear god i want war 4 so badly, even just a re-run single player rts of the wow story. i cudnt give  toss about wrath any more, even if you do ill arthus and end that story thread. ill play on a private server at most. tbh ill play happily knowing im ripping them off

Originally posted by CPTAssistant

Not that this matters:  I have played WoW many times.  I did not play on release, I chose EQ2... which was fun, but was rushed, and thus failed @ launch.  I didn't have the willpower to stick it out until it became stable.  I had 2 60s pre BC, sold that account and went back to EQ2.  Then 3 70s post BC.  Sold that account, stumbled around EQ2, EQ1 progression, DAoC, CABAL, LOTRO, you name it.  >> 3 more 70s on WoW.  Sold that, CS:S'd, AoC'd for a while.  Resub'd to WoW to play with a friend, canceled again.

My reasons for disliking WoW (not hating) are as follows.
:Lack of Originality.  Doesn't it seem odd that Blizzard manages to have all of the distinguishing concepts of ALL others games, about the same time that those games come out?  WoW at launch was a noobed down version of EQ1... with a minor graphical update.  Expansions are basically like Blizzard reaching their hand into each new game, and snagging its core concept, dumbing it down, and throwing into WoW as a side-game.

:Everything is a time-sink.  Cap on arena points per week, lockout timers, gear checks.  The timeline is not playerdriven.  You either progress at a decent rate (hardcore - semi hardcore guilds), or you miss out on the action before the new expansion.  Minor upgrades from PVP arena seasons... Dangling that carrot.

:Gear > Skill.  This mixed with point 2 = Time > Skill. 

:PVP = cookie-cutter combos.  Nearly impossible to make an oddball combo succeed.  Therefor playing with friends is a game of hit or miss.... did they make the right class to coop with yours?  Do you want to play with friends, or do good? Pick one.

I like WoW, I've played it A LOT!  But as soon as another option opens, I try it out and cross my fingers that it will hold my attention longer then WoW... because IMO, there is a lot of room for improvements.

 QFT, I couldn't have said this better myself. Not to mention the fact that a lot of mmorpg fans are looking for a fresh game/fresh start. Grinding 1-80 and finding groups could turn out to be brutal. It's Pretty sad when WoW is concerned of losing (Hopefully a lot) of the 9 million player base.

i watch the wife play wow.  i watch friends play it.  i've still yet to see anything "good" about it.  nothing that makes me want to return.  the wow that is today is definitely not the wow that was advertisde pre-retail release, not by a long shot.  i see kaplan/pardo as being the ones who changed wow into what it is today.

for all the complaining i do about COx... they've actually added 10 *classes* since release (2 heat, 6 villain at, 2 veat) and have plans of more.  everything in that game is customizable.  while the mission generator may be a letdown as it is not a new underwater/space-station zone, it does mean there will be a crapton more content available soon after i13 is released.

eve-online is going to be introducing human avatars either this winter patch or possibly a bit later.  every expansion pretty much adds more professions and specializations, along with new ships and star systems.

neither of these is a fantasy-setting game.  honestly, depending on how mines of moria look and if they expand upon the monster play, i may well end up playing lotro for my fantasy game.

it's really not a matter of this game vs. that game.  that's a fanboi thing, and as we all know -- fanbois actively pursue a course which ruins games.  i want a game that's fun.  a game that's fun for me IS the best game out there. 

billions of people eat at mcdonald's and burger king... that seriously does not make me want to eat at either of those places more than i want to currently.  something that has a lower common denominator should, by definition, have a larger customer base.  that does not in any fashion, imply quality.  rather, by having a lower common denominator, it would imply the quality IS lesser.

wow doesn't have housing or customization.  i can't pick some oddball talent set-up and expect folks with whom i'm playing to be cool with the fact that my talent build isn't "optimal" for raiding/arena/whatever.  add to that the tier-progression of gear...  adding a few hairstyles isn't providing any type of customization that i care the least whit about.

i'm not afraid to start a new character in a new game.  my COx toons and Eve toons actually have *stuff* that would make me feel attached, even moreso as time progresses and new expansions allow them to customize and have any more *stuff*.   games like eq2 and uo also have *stuff* like your home and such.

wow offers me nothing other than an endless grind to maybe get what i'm looking for...  and then no housing (either personal or guild).

i'm happy that fans of wow are getting some new content and goodies.  i'm thinking... wow fans that post on forums make up the minority.  ofttimes i ask the wife, friends, etc about different aspects of wow and they don't know/care.  these are items that my OCD-self am intimately familiar with, in any game i play; but, i would seem to be in the minority there.

so, for people quite content in their gameplay being 80%+ of nothing but "dailies"...  i'm sure wotlk will be great fun... for THEM.

for me, i'll try war, i'll try wotlk to make the wife happy; but... odds are i'll still be playing COx & Eve and may even take up lotro... who knows.  but i'm willing to be open-minded and hold out hope that wotlk is FUN.  the lack of a base/housing will always be a LARGE drawback for me, as will the lack of power/talent/gear customization.

I know that to some people it sounds trite, but....my biggest complaint with WoW has always been the lack of player housing.  Not that I don't have some other complaints as well, but that one has bugged me from day one.

Originally posted by PinkCat

Also it will mess with WAR subscriptions to some degree. Many people are going to play WAR as a temporary filler while they wait for their beloved Blizzard:WoTLK. Im one of these individuals as well as my whole guild.

I agree, I ordered WAR last week and EA still hasn't processed my order, so I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be getting into the head start thing, Wouldn't be surprised if the WOW patch comes out before I get into WAR.

EA it's because we're lame.

    Arent people sick of WoW yet?? When I played in beta I thought players would play it 4-6 months max then get bored and move on to something else........

what are all these retardo    doing in here anyway?

These are quite nice and funny features giving out before the expac.  Compared to certain other games, you know what you are dealing with and that blizzard will change things if people dislike it.  The last part obviously goes for both good and bad, since some of the harder things got a lil too easy and some other things got too tedius but on a side note there's a bunch of good things and seriously, there's no mmorpg out there which can rival with WoW's content and quality.

WAR`???  see you in 1 month when people are whining just like AoC.

I'm pretty sure i'll be coming back to wow when WotLK arrives.

all mmos are grinders.....

" I certainly do not know the answer, and I'm not sure that any non-Blizzard employee does"

So has anything happened in the MMO world that might bring about an announcement of more cool skills and more pvp options from the boys at Blizz? Anything? Anything? Nope, I can't think about anything either. It's great for WoW fans that they are getting some of WoLK early, probably not so great that they are probably being softened up for another delay.

However as to why this exciting announcement was made this week is something I do know. I recognise this is a fan site and it makes sense for games to be reviewed by game-lovers but let's not get entirely taken in by the marketing eh? Oh, and while you are at it you may want to try the other pvp game. It's lovely to have one that actually works as described (makes a brave effort not to whine about the druid range bug or anything about Funcom).

If you can get on... Now if GOA can get its act together before main launch and get the destro queues down to less than 3 hours we might have as much fun in Europe as our American cousins. But if you are in the good ol' US of A and feel like a break from WoW there now is an alternative. if you are happy with WoW you'll be pleased to hear they'll be incorporating lots of the shiney bits from WAR in WoLK and you can pretty much guarantee weave the ol' Blizz magic. So either way you're a winner.