Originally posted by GreenChaos

From your list of games, it looks like the only MMO you ever even remotely liked is Eve. I just don't think MMOs is your thing.

 

I'm glad someone said it. 

Yes, WAR has it's bugs. But people seem to not understand that RvR being the focal point does not mean PvE is entirely on the back burner come launch.

At the moment, I'd say they're about equal for content. The only difference is that RvR is something that can go on forever, whereas PvE - aside from the repeatable quests - is something that has to end at some point. At least until an expansion.

The game runs very smoothly, and looks and feels nothing like WoW, except for the controls to a degree. Even then it's not the same. There's no jumping around while fighting people because it does no good, and you automatically turn towards the enemy you're locked onto when you press an ability.

Now that I think about it, the only real similarites to WoW, are in the scenario's to a degree, the fact that there are quests and gear in the game, and that you can use WASD controls.

OP: Let me help you out here. You seem to be severely confusing your WAR terminology here.

PQ's are also known as Public Quest's. THESE ARE NOTHING LIKE AB/AV/WSG anything. They are basically like miniature GM events, that go on and on in a repeatable fashion in order to receieve chapter influence.

SCENARIOS ARE NOT PQ's. Scenarios are equivalent to Battle Grounds, except there are MORE OF THEM. WAR has 22, WoW has 4. But WoW's AV is supposed to compete with RvR, and every pairing and every tier has an open RvR lake, I'm not sure how many of those exist but theres a lot more than 12.

INFLUENCE IS NOT RENOWN. Influence is gained to receive chapter rewards for PVE'ing. Renown is gained through RvRing or doing scenarios. Renown gets you alternate advancement abiilties and also renown armor and ranks.

On the graphics issue. Time and time again people have shown screenshots that show WARS true potential. The people that are saying WAR's graphics are horrible refuse to show screenshots or any proof of their claims. Only stating their opinion. Well I'll tell you what. Opinions are like ass holes. Everyone has them and they stink.  You tell me these graphics look horrible. www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/mmorpg-general-discussion/85533d1219181001-war-nda-officially-lifted-post-pics-info-warshot.jpg and I'll tell you where to stick your head.

Should I define TROLL for you?

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion

Originally posted by memoir

To ALL:

Hello???

Anybody home.

We are far beyond the trolls now.

The game is out and everyone can play it (well sort of).

Look on the internet and there are 2 possibilities OR we see trolls behind every tree OR the game is mediocre - at best.

Hype is over: game was delivered you and I played it and what do we see?

Apparently the same as I was saying in playing it the first time 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/200881

Is this trolling from a troll in a troll forum?

No it is exactly the same as I wrote yesterday with the first impressions. I was biased. Well I bet you I was biased, because like all those other millions I play on and off some other game which Mythic decided to go head to head with.

I can really understand how many will think this is a sad sad experience once again for the MMO industry.

Memoir, are you Teamfortress? Are you a blizzbot or something? I don't understand your crusade to defend WoW and try to put down any other game that attempts to be successful. So you yourself didn't enjoy the game and think it's below average, that's fine. But you already knew you wouldn't enjoy it, you've been bashing it for a long long time now. You must realize however that there are thousands upon thousands of people having an amazing time with the game even in beta, and that there is a good possibility it might reach a very high number of subs. We all know Warcraft will remain in first place, so why are you so threatened by people having fun with a new game? WoW servers will always stay full, Stormwind will never become a ghost town, the game will be just fine.

Warhammer is the father of Warcraft, and Warcraft is a big boy now. He can take care of himself. Let Warhammer have some of the glory it deserves.
 

Originally posted by Kainis

1. Did I say PQs were not open air? Still, it seems like you are rehashing what I have already said on the point. To me and others, they are a new possibly better reincarnation of AV. To you, not so much. Fine we disagree. But why sweep said concern under, as 'troll bait' while it has been a valid comment for some time? Again, that arguement is not the point of the thread.

Man are you stupid or what..?

There's been like 4 post trying to explain to you that PQ's have nothing in common with AV, there NO PVP IN PQ'S whatsoever, these are just open air PvE quest with several stages with increasing difficulty, which you can join at any time.  How are you comparing AV with PvE?

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by theratmonkey

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by theratmonkey

No, Scenarios aren't ....Nevermind.

 

You're a troll. I'm done with trying to reason.

 

 

You just proved his original point. It's amazing how you people miss this shit. He obviously has mistaken "PQ's" for "Scenarios" and thinks they are one in the same. Now if you just go back and replace "PQ's" in all of his posts with "Scenarios" it makes sense. It's not like you haven't used the wrong term for something and confused a bunch of people. I just find it amazing that you didn't figure that out after his last post. I guess it's just because he is right, the fanbois will not listen and label anyone that isn't impressed by this game as a troll.

 

I understood his post perfectly clear, and knew the difference between the two.

Which leads me to believe that he's just trying to piss off people here.

A lot of what he's said, makes him look very uninformed about the game, and then he says "I've been studying" warhammer, it shows that a) He has some learning disability, or b) He's a troll.

 

I went with b.

 

 

Thank you, for the explanation. You still proved him right and that's sad.

Err..  what are you smoking?

He explained exactly why he thought the OP is a troll and it had nothing to do with him not liking the game. 

Originally posted by Kainis

1000s of 'typical' quests, I would question that number, based on how quickly you lvl to max (before you start the rep grinding). Also, it has been stated time and again, that PQs are a rehashing of certain battlegrounds from WoW. For a game claiming to be something so different, and so better- I expect different and better, not just new facepaint.
 

If there are tonnes of lairs, dungeons, instances- why has rvr/ pvp become such a main selling point? Why haven't even the most rabid 'fanboys' promoted this as much as they have the other 'qualities'?

Show me some smoke, and I will agree on the presence of fire.

You are smoking!   Crack!

You obviously have not played this game, even the Open Beta so for you to make any sort of judgements off of what you have "read" and seen in gameplay videos tells me you sir are a TROLL.

And I love the fact that people are still using the "dated graphics" or "wow graphics" as a knock on the game.  You know what?  Graphics, mean very little.  As someone who supposedly played AoC you should know this.  Graphically the game was very good, but that was the only good thing about that game and we'll see where graphics get you 1 year from now when that game goes the way of Auto Assault.  Another note, you think there is a reason that they didnt go all out on the graphics?  Probably so you don't exclude 90% of the gaming community who can't run games like AoC because of their ridiculously high minimum specs.  I have been involved in battles of easily 100-150 people without losing much FPS and I applaud Mythic for sacrificing graphics to better their gameplay. 

In short, go back to your bridge!

Originally posted by Kainis

3. Base WoW- no. BC- yes. There are towers the factions worked hard to take in almost every outland zone. The mechanics of which were strikingly similiar to what I experienced in WAR. The fight for them on pvp servers became well known. Perhaps you played BC on a pve server, and so aren't familiar with it?

Those silly tower caps in EPL? The open pvp in the Outlands for pointless buffs and a rez point from towers? That doesn't hold a candle to WAR's RVR system. Halaa is the only thing that changes sides when it's captured in BC and it serves little purpose to whomever controls it. So because WAR has these vastly improved mechanics and gets released 2 years after BC, it's a copy cat? Here's a history lesson - DAoC did it first, and WoW came later. Who copied who now?

With Wrath of the Lich King, WoW is now blatantly trying to pander to DAoC/WAR players by implementing siege warfare. Their whole achievements thing with the titles for performing certain things that no one will be able to do once the game is released, and for killing bosses or jumping through hoops - several games have done that before too. Everquest was one of the first, City of Heroes improved upon that with their badge system, and now WAR with it's superior Tome of Knowledge, for which there are hundreds of achievements and associated rewards. But oh look, WoW has to stick it's thumb in the pie too and I'm sure countless fanboys will say WoW did it first, when that's a complete lie.

As far as the rest of your questioning after everyone's response of "Why is it being swept under the rug as trollbait", the answer is why are you coming into the Warhammer forums making a big stink, doing comparisons and generally acting childish (why? why? why?) if you simply don't like the game? People in these forums are just trying to form a community and share constructive feedback and threads like this one that denounce other games for no particular reason or try to compare them without a proper understanding of the game they're trying to criticize ARE attempts at trolling.

Originally posted by theratmonkey

No, Scenarios aren't ....Nevermind.

 

lol, yeah that first rebuttal of theirs was a "smack forehead" moment for me too.

Originally posted by Narshe

The game isen't for everyone, obviously. If you don't enjoy the graphics or the gameplay, then why try to ruin it for the people who do and bring up issues that are not relevant to them?
 

Because the existence of internet forums has elevated some people's egos to such a level of self-importance that they believe if they don't personally like a game (in terms of personal preference/opinion), then neither should anyone else and it deserves to fail.

I especially enjoy the ones where they love to pull out the comments like "it's a fact that the graphics are sub-par". As if calling it "fact" will trick people into thinking it's not really just their opinion.

Originally posted by sephiroth360

Originally posted by Kainis

1. Did I say PQs were not open air? Still, it seems like you are rehashing what I have already said on the point. To me and others, they are a new possibly better reincarnation of AV. To you, not so much. Fine we disagree. But why sweep said concern under, as 'troll bait' while it has been a valid comment for some time? Again, that arguement is not the point of the thread.

 

Man are you stupid or what..?

There's been like 4 post trying to explain to you that PQ's have nothing in common with AV, there NO PVP IN PQ'S whatsoever, these are just open air PvE quest with several stages with increasing difficulty, which you can join at any time.  How are you comparing AV with PvE?

Nobody can be that stupid..   the answer to the 'or what' is a guy who is obviously getting immense pleasure out of fustrating WAR players with his innane comments and inability to grasp the most basic concepts in the game.

Since PQ's are there at the earliest stages of the game, the guy was clearly lying when he said he had 'studied' WAR.

For someone that "lurks" on this site the OP certainly has a lot to say. . .

I am certainly not claiming that every aspect of Warhammer is brand new.  I've also never had the opportunity to play a truly sandbox game.  (Closest would probably be AC)  Still, I can honestly say that playing WAR has been the most fun I've ever had in an MMO... and this is with my character constantly being wiped in beta.  Only game that may or may not exist and may or may not be coming out soon that could pull away a lot of my time is Darkfall as I really want to try a full sandbox game where i can truly see the world grow around me.

Originally posted by Kainis

It's people like blind fanboys that cause games to come out the way they are. To you, betas aren't for testing, but to get a head start on the game- so you can claim your machizmo when it is released (and of course turn around and bash it after release, and go to the next big thing)

 

This is a common misconception of "beta testing". Developers don't really need you to do anything more than play the game so they can run diagnostic programs while you play. That's all beta is, and all you really need to do. I know some players like to think they are important in a beta, because THEY are actually "testing" the game, but all they have to do is play the game.

But if you want to think you're some sort of superior "beta tester" because you actively look for bugs, and your intentions are pure, go ahead. As long as you play the game, it really doesn't matter what your intentions are, that's all teh devs need from you.

Alpha is different, but you mentioned "beta testing".

Yes I know it's beta still, but you guys gave grief to AoC for the last several months, pointing out graphics, gameplay, and content as reasons why Funcom should be erased from history.

Apparently, the OP had high hopes for AoC as well. Just for the record eveyone who was disapointed with AoC gave the game grief. That's usually what happens when a consumer base is unhappy with a product.

Most know there are valid concerns about this game, thats why many of us try to quell them with fact and try not to candy coat things. However, there are many who are just looking to pick a fight to see how many pages their thread can get before it's buried or locked. There's no need in coming into someone elses Church trying to preach a different faith to it's followers. For those who want to convert someone there is a place called "General Discussion".

Originally posted by sephiroth360

Originally posted by Kainis

1. Did I say PQs were not open air? Still, it seems like you are rehashing what I have already said on the point. To me and others, they are a new possibly better reincarnation of AV. To you, not so much. Fine we disagree. But why sweep said concern under, as 'troll bait' while it has been a valid comment for some time? Again, that arguement is not the point of the thread.

 

Man are you stupid or what..?

There's been like 4 post trying to explain to you that PQ's have nothing in common with AV, there NO PVP IN PQ'S whatsoever, these are just open air PvE quest with several stages with increasing difficulty, which you can join at any time.  How are you comparing AV with PvE?

Actually, there are PQs where you contest against the other side, and i have never been on at near peak hours where pvp was not happening in them.

But yes there are battle field objectives which basiclly are pvp pqs (They rank and give loot and everything).

Like take over a keep or tower , etc. etc.

Originally posted by Kainis

K. let me see if I get your points, who knows in the end I might agree with you.

1. PQs are 'scenerios' and WAR has 22, while WoW had 4. So that makes it all the more worth it? Grinding even more 'scenerios' for 'influence' points (read rep points) to get better pvp gear? Sounds just like grinding battlegrounds for faction specific gear. which brings me to my next point, I think...

2. Influence points are divided between the tier zones. I guess that is sort of like going from AB to AV, to EotS, with the ultimate goal to get the most high lvl pvp gear.

As stated before, if this game is being hailed as so much better than WoW, why is so blatantly ripping it off? Don't get me started on the whole which came first scenerio, as I know well enough, War IP came before WoW, but that WoW as a <game> is still WAR's 'deadbeat dad'.

I have been studying WAR, and many other games for some time. Luckly, I was not victimized with the whole GOA thing (that's a forebare of a much more questionable future), and so kinda know what's going on with the game. I understand why the graphics are the way they are (to stay true to war, and make it look better than wow. But come on, use some higher poly models, and make the ranges further out before greying. Don't give me the whole 'graphics aren't on max' crap. What you see now, is what you will see upon release.

Now, maybe you have confused the intentions of my original post. I am not necessarily a 'hater' of this game, just one that sees some obvious flaws which will be game breaking for some. I am trying to rehash the fact that many valid concerns are getting the response that you so... eloquently gave me.

 

No I am no fan of Blizzard, other than their cinematics. I had hoped that was clear in the original post, but I guess not. On that subject alone, I like WAR's as well.

Can PvP from level 1 if I really want to, and I really do. I can level all the way from 1 to 40 through PvP, if I really want to. I get nothing for my effort anywhere else, which has always seemed backwards since a human target is much more difficult to kill than an NPC.

Gear is awarded in full sets for each tier and doesn't require a tremendous amount of PvE grinding for cash to get. (problem I had with both EQ2 and WoW).

I don't have to spend weeks worth of hours raiding (which imo is still the worst, most boring, POS, waste of my damn time, concept ever invented) in order to be effective in more raids, so I can get the gear I need to be effective in PvP. (another huge problem for me in WoW and especially EQ2).

Objectives. Keeps, City Sieges. (2 is still better than the 0 everywhere else) Massive battles that serve actually purpose.

MMO's are never going to be great on graphics, it's not possible. I wish Funcom a whole lot of luck with their dream of DX10 and great performance. I'm sure a couple hundred people will be very happy with the environments there when they get around to it.

Anyway they've definitely delivered on everything I was hoping for. It seems to me you're comparing the two at a core level, which is kind of like saying they're both online and multiplayer, also they've got two realms, so WAR = WoW. And not much different than the guys that went Orcs and Goblins and Dwarves? lololol!

The graphics aren't a step up from WoW?

The texture maps have little to do with it.  Look at the meshes.  Look at the -stylistic- differences.  Think art, not tech; WoW had great art and low tech, and WAR's art looks JUST like it ought to for its setting; the whole look screams Warhammer, which makes me very happy as an old tabletop player.

I don't have a problem with the combat; it seems much more fluid to me than WoW's ever did, and I rarely find myself mashing a button to be sure the move will go off ASAP in RvR, which happened a lot in WoW PvP.

Another BIG advantage of this over WoW PvP: there aren't -nearly- as many ridiculous, control-breaking stuns, fears and generally awful decisions.  And taunts and detaunts work in PvP as much as they do in PvE.

Overall, there have been a lot of great design decisions here, and although I agree the game hasn't got quite the same UI slickness as WoW, they've been constantly improving it throughout beta; I've been watching the user interaction and interface evolve for quite a while, and it's made a huge difference.  I'm sure it'll continue to.

Also, the nonexistent PvE deal?  I can hardly answer to that.  You're willfully blind on this subject and I'm not going to try to hammer home the excruciatingly obvious to a person who just doesn't want to see it.  There's PvE everywhere.  There are -loads- of quests, PQs absolutely everywhere, good rewards and interesting itemization that gives you enough to really make your character do what you want it to do.  The RvR gear has gotten a nerf... which is a good thing.  Okay?  The old RvR gear was so powerful and so specialized that RvRing without it was kind of silly, but now that it's gotten a step down it's much better.  People are bawwwwing about it because it's not as uber as it used to be, but now things are a lot more balanced between PvE items and PvP items.  It takes a lot of RvR to be as powerful gearwise as a good PQ runner who scoots around and finds different places and different gearsets... and who occasionally rolls Major and Massive loot bags.

You're calling other folks blind fanboys, and you're a blind critic for no better reason than you don't like the graphics and you don't accept 'it's in beta' as a reason to forgive its minor UI problems.

I'm an absolute design junkie.  I love figuring out how games work and what makes them tick, and how to most efficiently use things.  The WAR team has made some fantastic decisions, and if you can't understand them then you just haven't got a decent grasp on fucking -math-.

Originally posted by Kainis

First, I am well aware this is my first post, and some will quickly point that out and call me a troll. I have been a lurker on this site, visiting almost every day for the last several years, not only to learn about a host of games, but to learn about the general gaming community itself. I know that some of the simpletons will use various schemes to try to dismiss this thread. Everything from first post, to grammar usage, etc. Just hear me out, starting with my experience and perspective from other games.

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WoW/BC---- made for those that wish for mindless entertainment. showed the world that you don't have to think to play an mmo

 

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  Lots of opinions with no justification. How you can single out WoW as mindless is really baffling when EQ2 and LOTRO are nearly identical in gameplay. I liked all three of the games, but preferred WoW, so I suppose that makes me a simpleton.

I also find it ironic that your WoW 2.0 is more like LOTRO, but I guess you can't get hung up on specifics.

I've been on these boards long enough to recognize all of your opinions as nothing but the same old cliched drivel that has been posted by every troll under the sun.

Thanks though for the edification. Really. I'll go back to pounding sand with the rest of my short-bus friends that played WoW.