Discovered an interesting thread on Ten Ton Hammer forums about the FFA PvP potential in 'Crusades' for a situation to escalate into an all-out showdown between Carebears and PvP'rs.

Quote: Rocinante, Ten Ton Hammer thread:

"...after reading the forums and FAQ - I realized that there will be no effective way to blockade runs in and out of planets and galaxies because there are no jumpgates - it's all freespace! On top of this, is the fact that everywhere outside of the homeworld is open PvP space, but yet the resources needed for players to colonize and build Outposts into 'Civs' exists exponentially but again - in PvP space! "

"On that thought, Carebear players will need to form large guilds in order to protect their 'Civs' and we all know how much time they spend crafting. Thus, they will most likely have the best crafted items which the PvP'rs will enjoy looting - and that will force the Carebears to unite and fight. This could very well be gaming history in the sense that it may escalate into major confrontations between the two. PvP'rs won't survive and have the best weapons, planetary defenses, and spacecraft if they stop feeding off of the Carebears, and Carebears won't tolerate being attacked everywhere they go. Thus we have a Yin & Yang of Carebear vs. PvP'r in a final showdown - and it's probably long overdue."

Such a final showdown between the two long established player bases gets me thinking about which side would come out on top?  For indeed, they are the 'Yin and Yang' of MMO gamers. They depend upon one another for resources - like a food chain.  In an ever expanding universe, with FFA PvP, the setting is ripe for micro and macro clan domination.  Perhaps this score could be settled? 

Would the community like to see support for such a confrontation or leave it to the gamers to evolve?

Most carebares do not dislike PvP a lot even :gasp: enjoy guildwars areanas. What they dislike is pointless PvP, which city defense/invasion isn't.

PvPers and PvEers do not depend on each other at all, actually they should be playing two different games.

Gotta hand it to the carebears, they always win. Whoever whines the loudest always wins.

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Originally posted by Briansho
Gotta hand it to the carebears, they always win. Whoever whines the loudest always wins.

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unfortunately this is true...definitely works on ruining AoC

Originally posted by Briansho

Gotta hand it to the carebears, they always win. Whoever whines the loudest always wins.

Your joking right? I'd say both parties cry the same, just about different things. While PvEers may complain about PvP things that affect them, PvPers fall into the endless "balance" cries. "This class is OP", or "This skill is OP", or "This combo is OP"(see the pattern here?). I would almost venture to say PvPers cry the most.

What I would really like to know is why PvPers call PvEers "Carebears". It's pretty funny that because they like a different aspect of a game than you, they are suddenly inferior and a nuisance.

No, this is just going to end up like Eve. It's too easy for someone you don't know to screw everything up, so people form a not-friendly-shoot-it policy (NBSI, B for blue). This doesn't favor carebears at all but encourages high paranoia.

Its better to just claim players will fight players.....if they happen to be PvE or PvP fans have not much to do with the outcome in Crusades (wich sounds like a relly interesting MMO). A complax MMO can really change a player.

Alright: If I am termed 'Carebear' - which aside from being used as an insult usually, also apparently is used to describe non-PVP players in general - why would I be interested in an Free-for-all PvP game in the first place?

It's like asking vegans to partake in a steak eating contest and wonder who would finish first. This whole issue is intellectual bankruptcy.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Briansho

Gotta hand it to the carebears, they always win. Whoever whines the loudest always wins.

 

Your joking right? I'd say both parties cry the same, just about different things. While PvEers may complain about PvP things that affect them, PvPers fall into the endless "balance" cries. "This class is OP", or "This skill is OP", or "This combo is OP"(see the pattern here?). I would almost venture to say PvPers cry the most.

What I would really like to know is why PvPers call PvEers "Carebears". It's pretty funny that because they like a different aspect of a game than you, they are suddenly inferior and a nuisance.

I agree they both cry. But carebears cry louder so they get their way. Many times those who start to cry and complain the loudest are assumed to be carebears. If a person dresses up like a clown, puts on makeup, and makes balloon animals they are probably going to be called a clown right?

"Carebear" is a term used by old school MMO elitists. It's an attempt to insult the new breed of MMO players that mostly WoW is responsible for. This is why they hate WoW and attempt to drag it in the mud as much as possible. "Carebears" are stupid and don't have a clue to what makes a MMO good. All hail the good old days when UO was king. Evolution is evil! Down with the infidel WoW!

Originally posted by MarL

PvPers and PvEers do not depend on each other at all, actually they should be playing two different games.

I have to agree. Most games I played dedicated PvErs and dedicated PvPers didn't mix at all. People that prefer to swap between the two in my observation do reasonably well with both groups but then again they are the middle ground.

Regarding the OP, I think "carebear" component (as much as I dislike the label but it does exist) will simply avoid the game by rank and file. End of story and I don't think I am off the target.

I'm a carebear, I enjoy crafting and I enjoy PbP! What I don't enjoy are 8 out of 10 of these so called "hardcore pvpers" would turn tails and run at the first sign of resistance from their victim.

It's the hardcore vs. casual (carebear, if you will) argument that is the root of a lot of friction and vitriol in the MMO genre. Why people simply can't understand that everyone has their own preferred style I will never know. I personally prefer casual PvE while sometimes dipping into PvP but I resent being called a 'carebear' because of my choice of playstyle. This is by no means a generalisation, but the majority of people who scream carebear are egotistical, overly competetive and obnoxious types that are the very personalities that make me avoid PvP in the first place.

i put a lot of pvpers into the care bear catergory because a lot of pvpers aren't willing to risk losing something when they die.

I like how they act like carebears and pvpers won't unite.

Carebears provide the work, pvpers provide the protection.

Originally posted by MarL

PvPers and PvEers do not depend on each other at all, actually they should be playing two different games.

 

I totally disagree, Look at games like Eve crafters depend on pvpers to kill players so the defeated players will buy more gear and Pvpers depend on pve/crafters to make the gear that they will wear and thier victims will wear. Its a cycle pvp games work this way everyone needs everyone else or the whole system is thrown out of whack.

Originally posted by Briansho

I agree they both cry. But carebears cry louder so they get their way. Many times those who start to cry and complain the loudest are assumed to be carebears. If a person dresses up like a clown, puts on makeup, and makes balloon animals they are probably going to be called a clown right?

I disagree.  Carebears cry the least but their cries are more "legit" to developers.  PvPers cry about all sorts of nonsense about balancing, exploits, and having rules get in the way of ganking / griefing.   Some PvP guys have the nerve to whine about not being able to gank carebears whenever they want.  They hate the restriction of ganking only in zones where people expect to be ganked.  Developers don't pay much attention to that except the balancing issues.

PvEers cry abotu the PvP players exploiting spawn locations, rez spots being camped to the point of not even wanting to play, quest mobs stolen during crucial moments in battle,  loot being taken etc.  These are things that will effect subscriptions if they aren't fixed asap.  People will leave a game because of these reasons.  People won't leave over class balances. 

example:  Age of Conan.  People complained about gankers killing players as the zoned into a new area.  The player would sit defensless while they loaded the new zone and a ganker would get an easy kill.  The killing was awy out of hand this way also.  So they fixed it, and "griefers" complained.

Griefers are stll able to kill players while they speak to an NPC.  they will argue up and down that it is fine to kill someone while they are completely defenseless in this way; saying that it's part of the FFA aspect.

As long as a game tries to cater to all then yes there won't be any final decision.

Let's face it with few exeption most players that claim to be PvP'ers and not "carebears" lie through their teeth. If they were indeed that kind of players they would choose a game that caters to that. Instead they play games that are mainly PvE with a bit of PvP to spice it up.

So far from all the games I have played with the exception of EVE, all so called hard core pvp players just exploit the mechanics of a game to gain an advantage. I haven't seen any of them though survive in games such as EvE and I bet they will just bitch and moan when they start playing darkfall.

So yeah in a sense carebears rule cause the game mechanics support it:P As I said most games are PvE after all.

Originally posted by MarL

PvPers and PvEers do not depend on each other at all, actually they should be playing two different games.

 

I feel that way often now.

I was a PvP'er with UO, I PvP'ed in WoW and tried my hand in EQII for awhile; and found elements in each I liked. The PvE in all the games was awesome by itself, and complicated when I tried to do both (minus EQ2). Trying to mix the two caused me to have a less enjoyable time.

I want to see a strict PvP game come out that doesn't end up sucking liuke Fury did. For right now, I go off shooters for my PvP fix.

I want to see a WoW type of MMO that doesn't force me to Raid or PvP to get decent "heroic quality" gear.