Nice article indeed

The low leveling curve is prolly there because this game is designed for pvp mainly. For "grindfests" one has to wait for Lineage 3 hehe.

Also the engine seems to be very well used. I have great expectations for this game, and atleast the community team so far has been a happy surprise.

If I remember correctly, the flight skill has 5 minutes cooldown. And you really can avoid PvP if you really hate it. Just beats me why on earth someone would play mmo-games if one only wants to do PvE content.

Originally posted by knite16

Originally posted by Eleazaros   

The article read OK but this game will be very PvP centric in an RvR format (Player vs Player in "team" Realm vs Realm combat based upon race/side you choose).  By "very" I do mean it is planned to limit gak happy folks activities by not allowing "baby slaughtering" but it will "encourage" you to participate by having most of the leveling up benefits, and the like, IN the PvP areas.

You are able to reach max level outside of the PvP areas without ever partaking in a PvP battle.  There is quest content up to level 50 on each race's half of the world.

Access to the PvP Abyss is via portals which are level limited.

There are two different "portals" that lead to PvP and I think you're mistaking the two.  The Abyss is a zone you portal to, but it is a zone that, after level 25, you will always have access to.  You simply need to go to the portal and enter it.  The random portals you speak of appear randomly around each home world and portal you to the enemy's home world.  Any time you can see the enemy, you can PvP them, and right now, the only way to see the enemy is in the Abyss or in their home world through the random, timed, portals.

The Abyss has 5 "keeps" that can be conquored and held.  The guild that holds a keep actually can get income from that keep for holding it -- the elite get richer by the rest buying stuff that may only be available from a specific keep.  HOW this is decided, I don't know.  A mixed raid -- would it go to the raid leaders guild or the person who gets the killing-blow on the keep boss or what?  Lots of little questions but the overall is a realm will controll the keep with a guild "owning" it so gaining benefits from that ownership.  Good for "the ubah's", good for those that don't care who owns it.  "Contention" with any other guilds that wish to hold a keep.

There are many, many more than 5 keeps in the abyss and there has only been 1 abyss zone (3 islands) shown so far.  This won't be like L2 where you have a couple castles that the same guilds control for life.  With castles spread all around, there will be plenty for the taking to allow all guilds more than a snowball's chance in hell.  As for how participation affects who "wins" the castle, I'll look into it to see if that info is out, yet.  I do know, however, that you don't have to be in a Legion to win a castle.  You can win it for your faction if a group on non-legioned players took one.

There will be "bosses" out there to fight.  From the sounds of it, a lot of this will be "world" based vs instanced.  This draws images of WoW's early world-bosses where only the top guilds usually got to fight them.  Thus some "contention" for these encounters as in who gets to fight the boss when it's up and the like.

Tough to say until the game is out.  I know there are a couple of vids on YouTube already where people have banded together to take out a large raid boss.  Whether they were a Legion or not, I don't know, but it took a LOT of them.

Aion...  Lots of promise but the PvP "contention" aspects of the game look to appeal to a younger croud.  I'm not into having PvP force-fed to me nor being penalized for not participating in those aspects of the game.  Don't get me wrong on PvP -- I did rank up several chars in WoW's system before quitting and I have over 22 "creeps" and a few "freeps" ranked up in the LoTRO PvMP system.  It's just that I prefer doing PvP when *I* want to and not feeling I must go do that every time I'm in the game or my "char's progress" suffers...  Thanks but no thanks if that's how it'll be.  Again, it's mostly just wait and see...

Again, PvP isn't something that will be force-fed to anyone.  You can go from level 1-50 without ever fighting the other faction.  You will miss out on some content in the Abyss (where you always have the danger of being attacked), but it can be done.  There will also be elements in the game so that PvE players can still contribute to their Legion without being right on the battlefield.  They have said that there will be PvE raids that affect the war.  Seige weapons (actual or schematics) may be able to be obtained through PvE raids, which can then be crafted and given to your Legion to help defend or attack.  Killing an NPC boss of either faction might result in a short term buff for your faction or a debuff for theirs.  Basically, they're keeping the PvE people in mind even though the game's highlighted end-game content is PvP based.

Hope this helps clarify things!

 

 Also I wrote up a little article about some other things Aion has going for it.  Check that out here.

Gathering information on the PvP aspects of a game can be a bit difficult to ferret out before a game ships. Little about it is covered with detail in reviews versus such things as the look and feel of a games play, combat systems, etc... Therefor I can see where your statement comes from with respect to this game but it appears to be misleading.  Here's some of the info I found on Aion as I looked into it (I had to go back and find some of this from when I first looked into it a few months back... *snicker*)

 www.youtube.com/watch

That is Part 6 of an interview with Ken Choi -- there are 10 or 11 parts to that interview on YouTube.   -- He's a Sr. Game Designer for Aion.  Here are excerpt statements of his on the question:

"...of course you can level up in non-Abyss areas until you reach maximum level but it won't be as efficient as when you're hunting in the Abyss which will have all the higher level MOBs..."

"...it will have that risk element.  That is deliberate because we want the players to be gradually introduced to the element of having to fight your enemy faction..."

So when a game designer says that you can get to max level without PvP but that it won't be as "efficient" as PvPvE... Then also makes statements about "it would be wise..." and the like...   Well, if it would be wise to go if you wish to level up "efficiently" then what would it be to NOT go there? 

If you've played MMO's for a while, that "wisdom" carries a bit more meaning than the preceding portion of his statement that it is "possible"  without PvP -- especially when the rest of that topic is about the Abyss and why players should go there.  At 25th level you can start going to the Abyss and it seems that they want you to go there as close to that as you are willing and able to go.

As the information on the game points to: The first 25 levels are PvE based "learning time". The first 10 levels are "learn the controls and figure out the basics". The next 15 levels appear to be about learning specifics of your class operations, fight and the like. They'll go by pretty fast, similar to WoW.

At 25th level on up, you'll be "encouraged" to go to the Abyss, PvP area. No, you don't have to -- the same as you don't have to ever get a mount in WoW. You can play WoW entirely without a mount for travel but it does tend to slow one down a bit and limit what one can do compared to other players -- especially as you get closer to "max level".

In other words -- can you advance without PvP? Yes. Would anyone in their right mind play the game with a handicap of NOT going to the Abyss when that's where "the good stuff" and "faster advancement" is at? ...

Now; if you're around level 25 going in there, can much higher level "enemies" easily hunt you down and kill you?  That's a tougher question but, in every MMO I've played so far, the difference between someone half "max level" and someone max level is quite a bit with respect to how well they can "compete" with each other and all are in the same PvP zone.

How PvP play works, with respect to protections, ability to participate AND avoid it, does carry meaning to a good portion of a games player base.  If you are going to have to go to PvP areas to progress should you  expect to be fodder for a good while? I don't think you nor anyone else currently has an answer to this question.  So it's at the wait and see stage...  Perhaps some more info will come out as the release date approaches.

FYI -- you're correct on the keeps.  There are more than 5.  I don't recall where I came up with the 5 but each major island in the abyss has a citadel and the Abyss is a zone they can easily expand due to the nature of the place.  Also there was something about different "values" for having different keeps but, again, I couldn't recall where to find the references.   

As to portals -- the level protection prevents sub-25th levels from getting in -- sorry if I wasn't clear.  I didn't even want to touch on the "random" portals because they seem very odd and also seem to violate the separation between sides outline for the game .  Each realm has it's "safe home area" and combat between sides is to be done in the Abyss yet these random portals...  I've no idea how those will work if it lets "enemy troops" get into your "safe" homelands.

Originally posted by Eleazaros

Good points-  I'll try to clarify anything I can if I know it.

Gathering information on the PvP aspects of a game can be a bit difficult to ferret out before a game ships. Little about it is covered with detail in reviews versus such things as the look and feel of a games play, combat systems, etc... Therefor I can see where your statement comes from with respect to this game but it appears to be misleading.  Here's some of the info I found on Aion as I looked into it (I had to go back and find some of this from when I first looked into it a few months back... *snicker*)

 www.youtube.com/watch

That is Part 6 of an interview with Ken Choi -- there are 10 or 11 parts to that interview on YouTube.   -- He's a Sr. Game Designer for Aion.  Here are excerpt statements of his on the question:

"...of course you can level up in non-Abyss areas until you reach maximum level but it won't be as efficient as when you're hunting in the Abyss which will have all the higher level MOBs..."

"...it will have that risk element.  That is deliberate because we want the players to be gradually introduced to the element of having to fight your enemy faction..."

So when a game designer says that you can get to max level without PvP but that it won't be as "efficient" as PvPvE... Then also makes statements about "it would be wise..." and the like...   Well, if it would be wise to go if you wish to level up "efficiently" then what would it be to NOT go there? 

This is another one of those instances where it is difficult to say until the game gets closer to completion.  The Abyss yields higher rewards- increased XP, Abyss points, and maybe better loot tables.  But it is riskier.  The enemies are a bit tougher and the opposing faction is there.  As of the end of CBT 3, we haven't been introduced to end-game areas on either faction's respective side of the world, but talking with Brian Knox at PAX, he said they've been rolling out info to us as the game gets more and more localized.  They've shown us the first Abyss and the starting areas so as it enters into Open Beta in Korea, we'll start to see exactly what kind of non-Abyss content we can expect.

If you've played MMO's for a while, that "wisdom" carries a bit more meaning than the preceding portion of his statement that it is "possible"  without PvP -- especially when the rest of that topic is about the Abyss and why players should go there.  At 25th level you can start going to the Abyss and it seems that they want you to go there as close to that as you are willing and able to go.

As the information on the game points to: The first 25 levels are PvE based "learning time". The first 10 levels are "learn the controls and figure out the basics". The next 15 levels appear to be about learning specifics of your class operations, fight and the like. They'll go by pretty fast, similar to WoW.

At 25th level on up, you'll be "encouraged" to go to the Abyss, PvP area. No, you don't have to -- the same as you don't have to ever get a mount in WoW. You can play WoW entirely without a mount for travel but it does tend to slow one down a bit and limit what one can do compared to other players -- especially as you get closer to "max level".

In other words -- can you advance without PvP? Yes. Would anyone in their right mind play the game with a handicap of NOT going to the Abyss when that's where "the good stuff" and "faster advancement" is at? ...

Well, with content outside the Abyss, there will be "good stuff" elsewhere also, but as I said before, with more risk comes greater reward.  Those who wish to do without that risk surely care, but no one, at this point, knows how easy it will be. 

Now; if you're around level 25 going in there, can much higher level "enemies" easily hunt you down and kill you?  That's a tougher question but, in every MMO I've played so far, the difference between someone half "max level" and someone max level is quite a bit with respect to how well they can "compete" with each other and all are in the same PvP zone.

The first Abyss is actually 3 separate islands.  Each island has its own general level range, so while there will always be higher level people running around killing the lowbies (if they don't restrict where they can go in the Abyss-  I assume they won't), the general missions you're running will be being run by about your same level on the enemy side as well.  I believe I read somewhere this first Abyss (3 islands) is level 25-40 content.  There is also said to be 3 total Abyss zones ready for launch, all different from each other with fortresses and artifacts to capture and different level ranges.  No other info is released yet on this.

How PvP play works, with respect to protections, ability to participate AND avoid it, does carry meaning to a good portion of a games player base.  If you are going to have to go to PvP areas to progress should you  expect to be fodder for a good while? I don't think you nor anyone else currently has an answer to this question.  So it's at the wait and see stage...  Perhaps some more info will come out as the release date approaches.

This depends, really.  The first island you go to will be, as I stated, level 25 content and therefore, the enemies and opposing faction members you find there will be (unless they're lowbie ganking) roughly your same level and this should hopefully prevent, in many cases, the "fodder" effect of PvP zones.  Now, if you decide to travel to the level 40 island, you're likely going to get stopmed by everything and you'll wish you were something as high as "fodder"  ;) 

FYI -- you're correct on the keeps.  There are more than 5.  I don't recall where I came up with the 5 but each major island in the abyss has a citadel and the Abyss is a zone they can easily expand due to the nature of the place.  Also there was something about different "values" for having different keeps but, again, I couldn't recall where to find the references.   

Fortress owners will be able to "tax" their territory, gaining assets for their legion from those who hunt on their land, purchase from their vendors, etc.  Also, how you do in the Abyss affects your faction's morale.  If the Elyos are winning in the Abyss (maybe this is Abyss points, rank, and fortress control?), vendors on their half of the world will sell cheaper and their faction may receive a buff.

As to portals -- the level protection prevents sub-25th levels from getting in -- sorry if I wasn't clear.  I didn't even want to touch on the "random" portals because they seem very odd and also seem to violate the separation between sides outline for the game .  Each realm has it's "safe home area" and combat between sides is to be done in the Abyss yet these random portals...  I've no idea how those will work if it lets "enemy troops" get into your "safe" homelands.

These portals are the only risk of PvP that non-PvPers will have if they choose to avoid the Abyss.  Now, its been said that these portals will only be open for a short amount of time- I believe roughly 5 minutes, and it was said a while back that people in the area would know without a doubt when they opened.  Maybe a beacon thats visible all over or a system message.  Also, if you go through the portal it doesn't just warp you outside another portal where you can get ganked as you load- it puts you in a random location in the area.  The only way home is back through another portal or death (unless there are abilities/items to take you back to your bind stone, which Im sure there are).  So generally speaking your homeland is still the safest place to be.  I don't know if cities and towns are a 100% safe zone or not.

Originally posted by kivaveikko

If I remember correctly, the flight skill has 5 minutes cooldown.

Flight has a dynamic cooldown.  As of the CBT2 client, low level players (12ish) had 1 minute of flight time.  If they used 30 seconds of this and landed, there would be a small 5 second cooldown for the flight skill itself, but after that they could fly again to continue ticking their timer down.   Now, any time you're on the ground, not flying, your flight timer is recharging +3 seconds every 5 or so.

So (and these are unofficial numbers, but fairly close as of CBT2) you have 1:00 of flight time and you fly to a floating island above you that has a quest and it takes you 25 seconds to get there, leaving you with 0:35 on the timer.  You land and begin talking to the npc.  It takes you 20 seconds to read the quest blurb and accept the mission, you should have, roughly, 47 seconds of flight time, now.

It has been said that there are buffs that increase flight time as well as other factors.  Abyss points can be spent to "upgrade" your wings.  Whether this is just appearance or if it makes them stronger, its not known.  Flight time may also increase with level-  also unknown at this point.

Yeah they are wing upgrades, which add stats and stuff from abyss, also the look gets upgraded.

Originally posted by Eleazaros

Originally posted by knite16

Originally posted by Eleazaros   

The article read OK but this game will be very PvP centric in an RvR format (Player vs Player in "team" Realm vs Realm combat based upon race/side you choose).  By "very" I do mean it is planned to limit gak happy folks activities by not allowing "baby slaughtering" but it will "encourage" you to participate by having most of the leveling up benefits, and the like, IN the PvP areas.

You are able to reach max level outside of the PvP areas without ever partaking in a PvP battle.  There is quest content up to level 50 on each race's half of the world.

Access to the PvP Abyss is via portals which are level limited.

There are two different "portals" that lead to PvP and I think you're mistaking the two.  The Abyss is a zone you portal to, but it is a zone that, after level 25, you will always have access to.  You simply need to go to the portal and enter it.  The random portals you speak of appear randomly around each home world and portal you to the enemy's home world.  Any time you can see the enemy, you can PvP them, and right now, the only way to see the enemy is in the Abyss or in their home world through the random, timed, portals.

The Abyss has 5 "keeps" that can be conquored and held.  The guild that holds a keep actually can get income from that keep for holding it -- the elite get richer by the rest buying stuff that may only be available from a specific keep.  HOW this is decided, I don't know.  A mixed raid -- would it go to the raid leaders guild or the person who gets the killing-blow on the keep boss or what?  Lots of little questions but the overall is a realm will controll the keep with a guild "owning" it so gaining benefits from that ownership.  Good for "the ubah's", good for those that don't care who owns it.  "Contention" with any other guilds that wish to hold a keep.

There are many, many more than 5 keeps in the abyss and there has only been 1 abyss zone (3 islands) shown so far.  This won't be like L2 where you have a couple castles that the same guilds control for life.  With castles spread all around, there will be plenty for the taking to allow all guilds more than a snowball's chance in hell.  As for how participation affects who "wins" the castle, I'll look into it to see if that info is out, yet.  I do know, however, that you don't have to be in a Legion to win a castle.  You can win it for your faction if a group on non-legioned players took one.

There will be "bosses" out there to fight.  From the sounds of it, a lot of this will be "world" based vs instanced.  This draws images of WoW's early world-bosses where only the top guilds usually got to fight them.  Thus some "contention" for these encounters as in who gets to fight the boss when it's up and the like.

Tough to say until the game is out.  I know there are a couple of vids on YouTube already where people have banded together to take out a large raid boss.  Whether they were a Legion or not, I don't know, but it took a LOT of them.

Aion...  Lots of promise but the PvP "contention" aspects of the game look to appeal to a younger croud.  I'm not into having PvP force-fed to me nor being penalized for not participating in those aspects of the game.  Don't get me wrong on PvP -- I did rank up several chars in WoW's system before quitting and I have over 22 "creeps" and a few "freeps" ranked up in the LoTRO PvMP system.  It's just that I prefer doing PvP when *I* want to and not feeling I must go do that every time I'm in the game or my "char's progress" suffers...  Thanks but no thanks if that's how it'll be.  Again, it's mostly just wait and see...

Again, PvP isn't something that will be force-fed to anyone.  You can go from level 1-50 without ever fighting the other faction.  You will miss out on some content in the Abyss (where you always have the danger of being attacked), but it can be done.  There will also be elements in the game so that PvE players can still contribute to their Legion without being right on the battlefield.  They have said that there will be PvE raids that affect the war.  Seige weapons (actual or schematics) may be able to be obtained through PvE raids, which can then be crafted and given to your Legion to help defend or attack.  Killing an NPC boss of either faction might result in a short term buff for your faction or a debuff for theirs.  Basically, they're keeping the PvE people in mind even though the game's highlighted end-game content is PvP based.

Hope this helps clarify things!

 

 Also I wrote up a little article about some other things Aion has going for it.  Check that out here.

 

Gathering information on the PvP aspects of a game can be a bit difficult to ferret out before a game ships. Little about it is covered with detail in reviews versus such things as the look and feel of a games play, combat systems, etc... Therefor I can see where your statement comes from with respect to this game but it appears to be misleading.  Here's some of the info I found on Aion as I looked into it (I had to go back and find some of this from when I first looked into it a few months back... *snicker*)

 www.youtube.com/watch

That is Part 6 of an interview with Ken Choi -- there are 10 or 11 parts to that interview on YouTube.   -- He's a Sr. Game Designer for Aion.  Here are excerpt statements of his on the question:

"...of course you can level up in non-Abyss areas until you reach maximum level but it won't be as efficient as when you're hunting in the Abyss which will have all the higher level MOBs..."

"...it will have that risk element.  That is deliberate because we want the players to be gradually introduced to the element of having to fight your enemy faction..."

So when a game designer says that you can get to max level without PvP but that it won't be as "efficient" as PvPvE... Then also makes statements about "it would be wise..." and the like...   Well, if it would be wise to go if you wish to level up "efficiently" then what would it be to NOT go there? 

If you've played MMO's for a while, that "wisdom" carries a bit more meaning than the preceding portion of his statement that it is "possible"  without PvP -- especially when the rest of that topic is about the Abyss and why players should go there.  At 25th level you can start going to the Abyss and it seems that they want you to go there as close to that as you are willing and able to go.

As the information on the game points to: The first 25 levels are PvE based "learning time". The first 10 levels are "learn the controls and figure out the basics". The next 15 levels appear to be about learning specifics of your class operations, fight and the like. They'll go by pretty fast, similar to WoW.

At 25th level on up, you'll be "encouraged" to go to the Abyss, PvP area. No, you don't have to -- the same as you don't have to ever get a mount in WoW. You can play WoW entirely without a mount for travel but it does tend to slow one down a bit and limit what one can do compared to other players -- especially as you get closer to "max level".

In other words -- can you advance without PvP? Yes. Would anyone in their right mind play the game with a handicap of NOT going to the Abyss when that's where "the good stuff" and "faster advancement" is at? ...

Now; if you're around level 25 going in there, can much higher level "enemies" easily hunt you down and kill you?  That's a tougher question but, in every MMO I've played so far, the difference between someone half "max level" and someone max level is quite a bit with respect to how well they can "compete" with each other and all are in the same PvP zone.

How PvP play works, with respect to protections, ability to participate AND avoid it, does carry meaning to a good portion of a games player base.  If you are going to have to go to PvP areas to progress should you  expect to be fodder for a good while? I don't think you nor anyone else currently has an answer to this question.  So it's at the wait and see stage...  Perhaps some more info will come out as the release date approaches.

FYI -- you're correct on the keeps.  There are more than 5.  I don't recall where I came up with the 5 but each major island in the abyss has a citadel and the Abyss is a zone they can easily expand due to the nature of the place.  Also there was something about different "values" for having different keeps but, again, I couldn't recall where to find the references.   

As to portals -- the level protection prevents sub-25th levels from getting in -- sorry if I wasn't clear.  I didn't even want to touch on the "random" portals because they seem very odd and also seem to violate the separation between sides outline for the game .  Each realm has it's "safe home area" and combat between sides is to be done in the Abyss yet these random portals...  I've no idea how those will work if it lets "enemy troops" get into your "safe" homelands.

Your post doesn't make much sense. That's like saying dungeons shouldn't be allowed in games because, since the exp and rewards are better, people are forced to play in them.

Risk = Reward, in life and games, and the Abyss is there for people who want to take the risk. You're not encouraged to spend all your time in the Abyss, you're encouraged to play the damn game however the hell you like. If you don't want to go to the Abyss, then don't! I know I probably won't, I'm more of a PvE buff myself.

In any case, a lot of the above are preconceived notions you'll have to let go. I understand we've all played almost every MMO out there and are a little bit jaded, but if you're going to stick with that attitude you'll never be happy, and you may as well just stop playing like...now.

And another thing, you're comparing yourself to other players, because those who enter the abyss may reach the end-result before you...however, if you don't want to PvP, why does that matter? I could understand people getting stronger, faster, then turning around and pwning you...but if it's not open PvP, who cares if the PvPers hit lvl 50 in a week when it might take you a month? Just go at your own pace and enjoy the game, stop worrying about what other people are doing with their time.

EDIT: In response to Abyss level restrictions, no one has declared whether specific areas of the Abyss will come with level restriction, however it has been stated that killing someone lower level than you will yield little to no reward. So unless you piss someone off, or they're just kind of a dick, you won't find a lot of lvl 50s ganking lvl 25s

WOW ^^ i cant wait anymore i think this game will be best next gen MMO :)

  Sounds like it could be worth a try, but Ubisoft need to learn from EQ2. The archetype system wasn't well received there, it won't be well received in Aion either as the community get to the point of making alts and find out the reason why EQ2 dropped. It adds a grind to the game where people have to play through the archtype to try a class they want to play out ,only to get there to find it's not for them. This can burn people out.

Originally posted by IAmMMO

  Sounds like it could be worth a try, but Ubisoft need to learn from EQ2. The archetype system wasn't well received there, it won't be well received in Aion either as the community get to the point of making alts and find out the reason why EQ2 dropped. It adds a grind to the game where people have to play through the archtype to try a class they want to play out ,only to get there to find it's not for them. This can burn people out.

First the archetype will not be a problem i think. if you choose the warrior archetype youll have to choose between a tank or a dmg warrior, support archetype you choose between a buffer or an healer, etc so the choice isnt that bad and if i remind right you choose your class at lvl10 or 20 max. And btw ubisoft will be only a distributor in europe nothing more than that. They dont have anything to do with the gameplay or the game at all. NCSoft made a deal with them cause its better to use a company that have better experience and a better distribution network than invest tons of cash to do it. :)

No distributors, UbiSoft or other, have been announced.  NC Soft is a distributor itself, so I can't imagine they'd outsource what they can do themselves.

Originally posted by knite16

No distributors, UbiSoft or other, have been announced.  NC Soft is a distributor itself, so I can't imagine they'd outsource what they can do themselves.

http://www.gamershell.com/companies/ncsoft/478150.html

I guess that does look familiar, my bad.  Thanks for the clarification.

Note though, that is only for the French version of the game.

yeah the press relese speak about the french version only for now, we will see if things change with the new NCWest that regroup NCEurope and NCAustin.