Originally posted by Hazmal

Originally posted by Noggin

The big red part that isn't true?...

 

But you can't RvR everywhere as you get higher Ranks.

 

I don't believe anything in the post said you would be able to RvR in a tier 1 zone as a tier 4 player...I guess you can change font color and size all you want, you can't make things appear that never did. 

I believe it said you would be flagged everywhere, which is true.  I also believe that it said RvR would be everywhere, stay with me on this one, if you are flagged everywhere wouldn't that make every zone RvR enabled...making RvR everywhere? 

Now, again I don't believe that post said anything about RvR being going down 2 tiers and fighting lower levels.  I could be wrong, but I think I read it correctly, you did put it in big red letters for me.

You know full well what I meant.

Originally posted by PureChaos

Originally posted by tapeworm00

You guys are thinking too much of it in terms of low levels. I believe that the differences between both rulesets are the sides of a coin: in Core, you'll have a better fighting experience in the lower levels, but in Open, it'll be better in the higher end; say, tier 4 and sieges. Not only will the players be able to attack Keeps and do objectives in the RvR zones, but they can organize raids into the other areas in order to distract the opposite army, lure them, divide them, etc. I think Open will have a lot more strategy in the high level gameplay, and will be worth the troubles of unbolstered fighting in the first couple of tiers.

Each has its advantages, but for the above reason, I think I'm going Open, as I think it'll be deeper for the "endgame".

what?

You do relise as you get higher the RVR zone gets bigger, by tier 4 its a good 75% of the map. Opens benefit is MOSTLY in the lower lvls and as you get higher it gets less and less beneficial. By the time of tier 4 its infact goes the otherway due to the chicken mechanics and lower lvl stuff.

What he said.

I see no reason to go open.  It doesn't so much open the world as it closes it.  What WILL happen is griefing. I promise.  Level 11 guys will kill the level 4 guys doing the PQ.  They will call this 'fair, and open play'.  yes, you can do the same to them.. but griefing has NEVER been fun for me.  So, being griefed..

Being unable to go back tiers (even in your own area) kind of sucks. 

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Hazmal

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Locklain

In open you will always be flagged thus making everything and everywhere RvR.  You can argue the semantics all you want.

What part of being a chicken with a 1 dmg attack and 1 hit point, being unable to RvR, PvE or whatever, do you not understand?

 

That only applies if you go down to a lower tier...what part of his post do you not understand?

The big red part that isn't true?...

 

But you can't RvR everywhere as you get higher Ranks.

Oh come on. . .let me simplify it for you then.  Open rule set RvR everywhere, once you reach tier 2 you cannot go back to tier one without becoming a chicken.  Once you reach tier 3 you cannot go back to tier 2 without becoming a chicken.  Once you reach tier 4 you CAN go back to tier 3 without becoming a chicken.  You are always flagged in the open rule sets THAT IS WHY YOU CAN'T GO BACK TIERS.  The key here is you are always flagged for RvR in the open rule set servers.  That is why you become a chicken when going back tiers that is why RvR is everywhere.

I chose open.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Hazmal

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Locklain

In open you will always be flagged thus making everything and everywhere RvR.  You can argue the semantics all you want.

What part of being a chicken with a 1 dmg attack and 1 hit point, being unable to RvR, PvE or whatever, do you not understand?

 

That only applies if you go down to a lower tier...what part of his post do you not understand?

The big red part that isn't true?...

 

But you can't RvR everywhere as you get higher Ranks.

Oh come on. . .let me simplify it for you then.  Open rule set RvR everywhere, once you reach tier 2 you cannot go back to tier one without becoming a chicken.  Once you reach tier 3 you cannot go back to tier 2 without becoming a chicken.  Once you reach tier 4 you CAN go back to tier 3 without becoming a chicken.  You are always flagged in the open rule sets THAT IS WHY YOU CAN'T GO BACK TIERS.  The key here is you are always flagged for RvR in the open rule set servers.  That is why you become a chicken when going back tiers that is why RvR is everywhere.

I know exactly how it works and I feel that a better solution would be that players become unflagged when the go into lower level tiers and are able to partake in PvE rather than be turned into a chicken.

The chicken is fine for Core, it works... However it doesn't work with the Open rules.

I can't see why they would make a ruleset that restricts the amount of things you can do in the game.

Originally posted by Noggin

I know exactly how it works and I feel that a better solution would be that players become unflagged when the go into lower level tiers and are able to partake in PvE rather than be turned into a chicken.

 

The chicken is fine for Core, it works... However it doesn't work with the Open rules.

 

I can't see why they would make a ruleset that restricts the amount of things you can do in the game.

This is one of the major problems with the open servers.  However, if they removed the flag so you could go back to lower tiers it would not be open anymore.  Being a beta tester myself I know how the open servers could be an absolute mess if not done correctly.  The open servers were only just thought about not long ago perhaps 3-6 months ago.  That is not enough time to properly implement everything correctly.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Noggin

I know exactly how it works and I feel that a better solution would be that players become unflagged when the go into lower level tiers and are able to partake in PvE rather than be turned into a chicken.

 

The chicken is fine for Core, it works... However it doesn't work with the Open rules.

 

I can't see why they would make a ruleset that restricts the amount of things you can do in the game.

This is one of the major problems with the open servers.  However, if they removed the flag so you could go back to lower tiers it would not be open anymore.  Being a beta tester myself I know how the open servers could be an absolute mess if not done correctly.  The open servers were only just thought about not long ago perhaps 3-6 months ago.  That is not enough time to properly implement everything correctly.

Exactly.

Originally posted by PureChaos

Originally posted by tapeworm00

You guys are thinking too much of it in terms of low levels. I believe that the differences between both rulesets are the sides of a coin: in Core, you'll have a better fighting experience in the lower levels, but in Open, it'll be better in the higher end; say, tier 4 and sieges. Not only will the players be able to attack Keeps and do objectives in the RvR zones, but they can organize raids into the other areas in order to distract the opposite army, lure them, divide them, etc. I think Open will have a lot more strategy in the high level gameplay, and will be worth the troubles of unbolstered fighting in the first couple of tiers.

Each has its advantages, but for the above reason, I think I'm going Open, as I think it'll be deeper for the "endgame".

what?

You do relise as you get higher the RVR zone gets bigger, by tier 4 its a good 75% of the map. Opens benefit is MOSTLY in the lower lvls and as you get higher it gets less and less beneficial. By the time of tier 4 its infact goes the otherway due to the chicken mechanics and lower lvl stuff.

Nope, I didn't know that. In any case my point still stands. Instead of having a "good 75%" of the map participating in RvR, you'll have 100%. In this case, the more the merrier, so Open is still larger and deeper in the endgame, I guess.

Originally posted by tapeworm00

Originally posted by PureChaos

Originally posted by tapeworm00

You guys are thinking too much of it in terms of low levels. I believe that the differences between both rulesets are the sides of a coin: in Core, you'll have a better fighting experience in the lower levels, but in Open, it'll be better in the higher end; say, tier 4 and sieges. Not only will the players be able to attack Keeps and do objectives in the RvR zones, but they can organize raids into the other areas in order to distract the opposite army, lure them, divide them, etc. I think Open will have a lot more strategy in the high level gameplay, and will be worth the troubles of unbolstered fighting in the first couple of tiers.

Each has its advantages, but for the above reason, I think I'm going Open, as I think it'll be deeper for the "endgame".

what?

You do relise as you get higher the RVR zone gets bigger, by tier 4 its a good 75% of the map. Opens benefit is MOSTLY in the lower lvls and as you get higher it gets less and less beneficial. By the time of tier 4 its infact goes the otherway due to the chicken mechanics and lower lvl stuff.

 

Nope, I didn't know that. In any case my point still stands. Instead of having a "good 75%" of the map participating in RvR, you'll have 100%. In this case, the more the merrier, so Open is still larger and deeper in the endgame, I guess.

You also have to think about the population.  How many people will be in the specific RvR lakes if everyone is out roaming around trying to sneak attack someone?  My biggest fear is that there would not be enough people actually attributing to what is necessary to take the capitals.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by tapeworm00

Originally posted by PureChaos

what?

You do relise as you get higher the RVR zone gets bigger, by tier 4 its a good 75% of the map. Opens benefit is MOSTLY in the lower lvls and as you get higher it gets less and less beneficial. By the time of tier 4 its infact goes the otherway due to the chicken mechanics and lower lvl stuff.

 

Nope, I didn't know that. In any case my point still stands. Instead of having a "good 75%" of the map participating in RvR, you'll have 100%. In this case, the more the merrier, so Open is still larger and deeper in the endgame, I guess.

You also have to think about the population.  How many people will be in the specific RvR lakes if everyone is out roaming around trying to sneak attack someone?  My biggest fear is that there would not be enough people actually attributing to what is necessary to take the capitals.

I guess we're gonna have to trust players organizing themselves through guilds efficiently enough as to make use of the entire array of possibilities presented by having an open PvP world-tier. The success of the server depends on us, not the ruelset, but if guilds are good at what they're supposed to do, which is organize and make strategies, then it's gonna be a lot of fun. If they're not, and everyone's roaming around like you say, then yeah, it's gonna suck. I think we're gonna have to trust guilds and players on this one, lol

Originally posted by tapeworm00

I guess we're gonna have to trust players organizing themselves through guilds efficiently enough as to make use of the entire array of possibilities presented by having an open PvP world-tier. The success of the server depends on us, not the ruelset, but if guilds are good at what they're supposed to do, which is organize and make strategies, then it's gonna be a lot of fun. If they're not, and everyone's roaming around like you say, then yeah, it's gonna suck. I think we're gonna have to trust guilds and players on this one, lol

It won't matter too much for me since I will be rolling on an RP server (I do this to try and get away from some of the childishness) I just like to bring up potential issues.

Core servers have boring PvE and the RvR will be more zerglike.

Open servers have more excitement to the PvE and the RvR will likely be less zerglike.

Spontaneous world PvP will always be more fun to me personally than some artificial forced PvP which is what RvR is. I still enjoy RvR but if given the option to have real world PvP as well I'll take it.

I prefer open, others will prefer core. There is no right or wrong answer here.

Our whole guild is going core for one reason:

More defined and goal oriented endplay. IE rvr.

If you don't understand that, I am glad you are not joining core.

But .. but .. when playing on an Open server and traveling back to a lower tier, will you be a chicken regardless of being in a rvr area AND regardless of being in your own races zone? That would be awful. Not so much because of having no option to gank lower lvl'd players but because of unfinished pve business. 

I surely hope Mythic will reconsider if this is the case. Open PvP should mean open pvp, just devise a way to prevent higher leveled players from influencing the lower tier battles.(Only chicken in the rvr area's like on Core and flagged but not chickened outside of those).

Yes, that means ganking. But we rolled Open PvP in the first place and we expect to be ganked occasionally, (and get our rocks off from excitement in between).

I remember from my WOW days being in Hillsbrad for the first time and seeing a 'skulled' Tauren warrior looking for little gnomes like me to feed on. It was a great challenge to try and kill a few hordelings around my own level while that 'monster' was out and about. Great fun, to be honoust. Skillfully avoiding a fight you really can't win is more fun to me than to fight a fight which you can't lose. (How's that for a quote?)

Chicken is fine with me in RvR zones but outside of those; open should be open, whatever ugly things might happen. For me, and probably most Open players, the threat of higher leveled players brings excitement to the game.

Originally posted by DarkPony

But .. but .. when playing on an Open server and traveling back to a lower tier, will you be a chicken regardless of being in a rvr area AND regardless of being in your own races zone? That would be awful. Not so much because of having no option to gank lower lvl'd players but because of unfinished pve business. 

I surely hope Mythic will reconsider if this is the case. Open PvP should mean open pvp, just devise a way to prevent higher leveled players from influencing the lower tier battles.(Only chicken in the rvr area's like on Core and flagged but not chickened outside of those).

Yes, that means ganking. But we rolled Open PvP in the first place and we expect to be ganked occasionally, (and get our rocks off from excitement in between).

I remember from my WOW days being in Hillsbrad for the first time and seeing a 'skulled' Tauren warrior looking for little gnomes like me to feed on. It was a great challenge to try and kill a few hordelings around my own level while that 'monster' was out and about. Great fun, to be honoust. Skillfully avoiding a fight you really can't win is more fun to me than to fight a fight which you can't lose. (How's that for a quote?)

Chicken is fine with me in RvR zones but outside of those; open should be open, whatever ugly things might happen. For me, and probably most Open players, the threat of higher leveled players brings excitement to the game.

Yes, if you outlevel a tier and go back you will be chickenized that includes everywhere you go in that their.  Even on the core servers if you are rank 14 and flag yourself the second you zone into tier 1 you become a chicken.  The same will happen on an open server except you don't have the choice to unflag yourself.  Like I said in a previous post, the open servers were more of an afterthought by Mythic.  That is why the rules sound so unrefined.

Aye and per Mark's comment (which was his best and most short response ever)...

Will you ever take away chicken mode from open servers or even  core?

His response....

"NO"

Guess that says it all.

*sobs*

Thanks for the answers though. I haven't heard about Open pvp RP servers either so I think I will settle for an RP Core server instead. Untill Open becomes open and RP, that is. If never, then never ...

Freeeeedoooooooooo...aaarrgghhllllbbrlll .......

Bolster has been tried and tested on CoX. the results are dissappointing and the trolling is accurate.

X"Do you have ressurect yet?"

Y"No"

X"Oh shit"

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by xzeve

 

Why shouldnt you be able to complete TOK pve quests when you are done in tier1 ? as far as i understand it is the plan, that you can only be turned into a chicken in the RVR zones? ^^

With the open rule set everything is considered an RvR zone.  This is why returning to get tome unlocks will be borderline impossible.

I would say for this reason alone, I will likely be playing core.  I want to be able to experience all of the game.  I dont want to have to roll another character to see the other races' lower tiers.  I also agree with the OP, sometimes I just want to be able to farm/quest/whatever in peace and not have to deal with some idiot waiting until I am at low health then running up to kill me.  Also there is still the option of turning on your RvR flag and giving yourself an even greater challenge because everyone else gets to attack you first.  I played on a PvE server in WoW, and my friend and I did this all the time and usually it would turn out to be a lot of fun.  There is also the OP's point that if you want to PvP, you might as well be in the RvR area helping the war effort than dicking around.

Originally posted by grimboj

Bolster has been tried and tested on CoX. the results are dissappointing and the trolling is accurate.

 

X"Do you have ressurect yet?"

Y"No"

X"Oh shit"

bolster doesn't work that way in WAR.  it doesn't physically change your level, it just gives you a buff that increases stats.

the trolling is not accurate, most of the trolls seemed to think that it actually changes your levels, it doesn't.  and because skills scale with your level (you don't learn new levels of the same skill, like fireball 1 2 3 or 4) a level 2's main heal will be just as powerful as a level 8s with bolster.

Bolster works very well.  It makes RvR more fun on both sides.  Its boring fighting level 2s but anyone who plays WoW knows that level 21s will come into WSG.  its better to boost them to 28 than assume they will simply stop coming to WSG.  this way my team members aren't completely gimp, and neither are my enemies.

So the trolls need to learn how the game actually works before commenting on this topic, without an understanding of the mechanic.  all your stats and skills will upgrade as if you are higher, you won't learn any new skills but your current ones will be on par with those of the other players in the RvR lake or scenario.  people will still see your normal level, higher level players will still "con" as much higher than you and thus read as "deadly" or "hopeless he is too high" but you won't get 2shotted.

I was very into open from the moment they said they were going to include them, I've always loved that type of PvP due to my time in Lineage2 when the whole world was like that. but looking at it now, core is going to be a lot more focused, with less ganking, and more options for people at the low end of a tier.