Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Yes. It is. What I would have liked in responses (and have gotten in some cases) is details on how gear/loot plays into the game. As in, how much difference does it make to a fight? How much difference does a "difficult" to get item make? All those kinds of things.

 

The question was asked so I could make an informed (well, as informed as is possible before Beta/release), judgement for -myself- my own view on what is hard, difficult. Perhaps I didn't point that out often enough, but my goal with this question was to gether information on how the Full Loot will actually impact on the playing experience, so I can take a guess as to how much it will bother/hurt/excite me.

 

Thank you for the reply.

We've been replying to your repeated requests repeatedly. So if you're serious about the game and how it works, do your own homework like we all have and research the dev journals for yourself here.

We can't answer your subjective questions, you'll have to figure those out on your own.

Just had to chime in once more, eh? Couldn't leave it at the last snippy comment?

 

I'll make sure not to bother -you- again with my -useless- questions. If you see a post by me, just ignore it and you won't be bothered. Other people here, including people with whom I have a long-time history of differing opinions have answered my questions very cordially and patiently. I'll stick to them. Thanks for your time though, it's been wonderful getting to know you.

Look chief, you keep running people around in circles claiming they're not giving you enough information when they're putting the info. in your hands and you don't know what to do with it.

First, stop asking people for subjective answers and then claiming they're not telling you what you want to know.

And secondly, do your own research. I put the link in your  hands and what do you do? You complain!

Oh and once again, the phrase was "waste of time".

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by draass

ill try to answer your question because im quite intrigued by it really..

your question was whether the system of full loot in pvp would hurt or not? (to sum it up correct me if im wrong)

to answer that as many have tried i think i really subjective.. and you added

That is, in part, why I asked so many questions about it. I wanted to know what kind of loss players can expect in the game. Is the gear going to be hard to be replaced? If it is, is it actually worth something or does it give me an edge in battle? Or is it just a -little- bit more expensive and a -little- bit stronger? All these factors come into play (for me) when deciding if losing gear hurts or doesn't hurt and previous posts about this have been contradicting each other repeatedly,

that is again subjective.. the idea of something being "hard" or "easy" to do or get is subjective theres no debate abt that.. lets just take an example of 2 individuals , very different individuals who are playing a sandbox mmo .. so its a open world your free to do what you like bla bla bla you get the idea dont think i need to go any further. So this person A starts at the same time person B started.. but lets say in totally different parts of the game world.. they are both around the same level skill wise and character wise. Person A is a range skilled character.. he has most of skills towards archery and has none on crafting.

Person B on the other hand is a melee based character.. but he also has skills in crafting melee weapons.

Keeping those points in mind lets pull in another factor.. the areas they are in.

Person A is in a area where they are lots of wood materials to be found , and coincidently these wood materials are a vital component to making good bows and arrows (lets just assume wood mats are all thats need to make them to make things less complicated).

Person B is in a area where they are lots of metal deposits (also assuming that metal is the only thing needed to make good melee weaps).

TAKING those JUST those factors into consideration.. any person looking at just this info would logically conclude that since both of them have easy access to materials that they need to make their gear, that factor is the same in terms of "hard" or "easy" to replace gear from the loss of pvp. BUT since person B has skills in crafting he has a certain advantage in replacing his gear so most can conclude that person B has an easier time to replace his gear from losing it in PVP.

still keeping those points in mind we all know that the conclusion is not accurate BECAUSE there are MUCH more factors then that. So now we pull in another factor - PVE monsters guarding those materials.

Lets say now Hellish demons are guarding the metal deposits in the area of person B and they are almost IMPOSSIBLE to kill.And even with his ingame friends they are still near impossible to kill.

For person A on the other hand some really easy monsters are around the area of the wood he needs and among his online friends many are crafters of bows.

NOW looking at these new factors who would you say would have an easier time in replacing his lost gear?--- person A naturally..

But AGAIN we know that its still not accurate because there are still tons of ingame factors.. so lets just assume that somehow some MMO GOD manages to take ALL ingame factors into consideration and gives them a numerical value to each factor determining the level of "hard" or "easy". and comes to a conclusion that person A is having an easier time in replacing his gear .. can we now say this result is accurate?

some would say yes but i disagree completely.. because as with all things that require human interaction we missed one TOTALLY impt point when we came to the previous conclusion.. human psychology(that includes how real life affects it). AND THAT is completely subjective.

suppose person B is the type of guy that loves pitting himself against the impossible.. --- he loses his gear and then find these freakingly hard creatures guarding the materials he need to replace them--- he would love it , to him nothing is "hard" and everything is "easy".  And then suppose person A is a really lazy piece of shit-- he expects to wood to just appear to him magically and when he finds out that he actually has to gather it and kill the monsters (low level) guarding it ?! he goes berserk and thinks its ssooo "hard"--- well almost everything to this guy is "hard".

Taking those points into consideration without knowing the personal life, his real life character his likes, dislikes , can one answer your question without being completely bias? ask yourself that.

to sum it all up ITS ALL SUBJECTIVE.

 

Yes. It is. What I would have liked in responses (and have gotten in some cases) is details on how gear/loot plays into the game. As in, how much difference does it make to a fight? How much difference does a "difficult" to get item make? All those kinds of things.

 

The question was asked so I could make an informed (well, as informed as is possible before Beta/release), judgement for -myself- my own view on what is hard, difficult. Perhaps I didn't point that out often enough, but my goal with this question was to gether information on how the Full Loot will actually impact on the playing experience, so I can take a guess as to how much it will bother/hurt/excite me.

 

Thank you for the reply.

The problem with the question you are asking is that no one really knows the details on what "required" items will be. Obviously if you go out naked without a weapon you will die... but that doesn't mean that weapons are overpowered... it just means that if you want to fight you will need one.  Standard sets of equipment for each kind of player (there are no classes but people WILL lean towards certain templates that will be used more often).  There will obviously be a market set up around these things. No one is likely to have all the materials for everything in one spot.. and people who spend all day pvping aren't likely to have a crafter capable of making everything they need. It means that you WILL likely have the spare sets but it doesn't make it meaningless to lose them in a fight. I'm sure there will be an item limit in the bank so you will find that trying to keep too many sets of items will fill your bank space too easy.  So you will need to consider how much backup equipment you have, how long it takes for you to retrieve the equipment and of course how long it will take you to get new equipment if your personal supply runs out.

Some of the things that you need to take into account are who you know, how long the game has been out, and how much do you know about where to get things you require. If you are at the start of the game no one will be able to make what will become the standard equipment and it means the standard will be lower. It also means that loosing something may mean a lot more to you. If you have only like 3-4 sets of ok items because you are trying to save up to somehow get something new(don't ask me what but there will be things to get) then it might mean a lot to loose your stuff. At that point if you lose all your items you are temporarily set back to the most basic level of the game. You will have to kill the easiest thing you have find just to afford stuff that lets you kill things that you would normally get money from.

Another thing you have to understand is that its not like with looting it means that once you kill someone everything they own now is automatically placed into you inventory. You need to stop and sort through all their items just to get stuff you need. This means that its another whole thing to micro while you are fighting others. If you die your friends will either try to secure your body and make sure its all intact for your return.. or they can get the things that hurt most to lose and give them back to you after that. If someone is trying to loot you... someone else can be killing them and you may end up chasing off someone or getting chased off from a corpse multiple times while looting is attempted. Not to mention you can stock up on lost items from other people. If there is a pretty busy battle going on and people are only looting the bare minimum of what they could(the stuff of value that takes less time to get) there should be a lot of usuable items that you could use just lying around on corpses.

Need to go now  so i'm just gonna leave it here for now.

Everything.

Originally posted by arctarus

Gameplay. If you did try star wars (pre NGE), you will know that you can be anyone, any trade you like. Its basically an open world with players making the game with endless possibilities.

I don't think the fans here are hostile though, this is what happens when love and hate collide.

And this kind of arguments is norm in mmo forums... just that you see more in this forum

 

Actually i don't agree with your analogy of players making the game.Pre NGE had the casual players wanting things like JEDI but didn't have the same time frame to achieve it,that is not a fair system,since it only favours those with more time.

I can't see how anyone can answer the OP's question until the game is released.Darkfall only has some ideas that may look good on paper to some people, we won' t know until it is released.I hope Darkfall no matter how good there ideas may be,doesn't turn out to be a time = reward game,that will make it a failure in every aspect.It is still just maybe's and might be,so i'll wait to see,however as soon as i see a game's basis is on PVP i am very skeptical and doubt it will carry any success to a large crowd.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by arctarus

Gameplay. If you did try star wars (pre NGE), you will know that you can be anyone, any trade you like. Its basically an open world with players making the game with endless possibilities.

I don't think the fans here are hostile though, this is what happens when love and hate collide.

And this kind of arguments is norm in mmo forums... just that you see more in this forum

 

Actually i don't agree with your analogy of players making the game.Pre NGE had the casual players wanting things like JEDI but didn't have the same time frame to achieve it,that is not a fair system,since it only favours those with more time.

I can't see how anyone can answer the OP's question until the game is released.Darkfall only has some ideas that may look good on paper to some people, we won' t know until it is released.I hope Darkfall no matter how good there ideas may be,doesn't turn out to be a time = reward game,that will make it a failure in every aspect.It is still just maybe's and might be,so i'll wait to see,however as soon as i see a game's basis is on PVP i am very skeptical and doubt it will carry any success to a large crowd.

i dont think aventurine is trying for a large crowd

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by arctarus

Gameplay. If you did try star wars (pre NGE), you will know that you can be anyone, any trade you like. Its basically an open world with players making the game with endless possibilities.

I don't think the fans here are hostile though, this is what happens when love and hate collide.

And this kind of arguments is norm in mmo forums... just that you see more in this forum

 

Actually i don't agree with your analogy of players making the game.Pre NGE had the casual players wanting things like JEDI but didn't have the same time frame to achieve it,that is not a fair system,since it only favours those with more time.

I can't see how anyone can answer the OP's question until the game is released.Darkfall only has some ideas that may look good on paper to some people, we won' t know until it is released.I hope Darkfall no matter how good there ideas may be,doesn't turn out to be a time = reward game,that will make it a failure in every aspect.It is still just maybe's and might be,so i'll wait to see,however as soon as i see a game's basis is on PVP i am very skeptical and doubt it will carry any success to a large crowd.

 

i dont think aventurine is trying for a large crowd

But they are probably going to get one. With no advertising, within a week 40,000 forum members joined, and continue to rise. I think they are going to get more players then they expected, They originaly planned on having one server, LOL.

What is so great about Darkfall?

Me top five:

1# Player freedom.

2# Open world

3# Manual aiming

4# Full PvP

5# Full loot

This will make the players create the action and story. As a role player that is very important, havent seen it since Pre-CU SWG in late 2005.

Zalkin, i will find you  -_- lol oj

Im no darkfall fanboy, i havent been stalking the game from 1999, i havent spent every waken minute looking up forums and trying to verbally abuse anyone that says that "Darkfall is the best gamezors ever!!!1!!!one!!"

but, look at a preview, read a few claims about the game, you'll understand why its gona be amazing

that is IF it lives up to what it has claimed, for example, if the ship building acutally turns out to be very unqiue and actually let you build a ship instead of havent a preset layout of a ship that you get to choose between 4 different colours and what kind of material you want your sail made from.

anyway.

think i've made my point

 Darkfall basicly features the best features created for mmorpg's throughout history. They've even managed to  make PvE interesting with their intelligent AI. The most important thing is, of course the player freedom. Also, the game has actual player run politics, warfare, trade contracts, mercenary/bandit/pirate companies. It has it all..

This game should be named Second Life instead of that crap they've created...

And oh, those who have doubts on full loot enviorment. Don't worry, the gear in this game should be easy to gain, just remeber to pack few extra sets of gear to your bank, and if you die just take some gear from the bank. Do remember, each time you kill a player, you will be awarded with a lot more than just some PvP exp, honor, repuation or anyother that resembles grinding that todays mmorpg's represent.

Darkfall is more than just a game that the developers had created. It's sparking a revolution in the MMO community that is sick of the carefree, no penalty from death gameplay. Ultima Online had originated this idea. Death meant next to everything, the fear kept the weak in town and player made 'towns' and the strong explored the dungeons and pvped.

Even everquest has more of a penatly than most MMO's these days. If you died in that game you lost experience and when you got higher up, sometimes that experience lost can cause you hours of time lost.

Darkfall is a reminder to the community what an MMO experience will be like when everytime you step out of town, you risk losing the items you have. The best part is, not just you risk the chance of losing your stuff, everyone around you does as well. Items will circulate through the game and people will experience adrenaline rushes again.

When was the last time you had even got your heart pumping remotely faster than a resting point in an MMO? Probably never, unless you played the glory days of Ultima Online before all the blessed items, neon clothes and split facets that currently plague the game.

We as darkfall fanatics pray that those days will come, and every time you step out of town will mean everything.

Freedom!

I think the feature that draws me to this game the most is that, from what I've read, the gameplay is focused less on level or equipment grinding and more on controling resources and territory.  This means that unlike in most previous MMO's, there's a chance that my actions could influence the story of the game for years to come.  I could, in theory, help to build a guild, a city, or an empire that other players will have to consider when making decisions about what they want to do.

I like the idea of having to consider what consequences my actions might have.  Will my skirmish set off a war between two powerful nations?  If I raise a powerful enough army, will it cause two warring nations to call a cease fire and ally together to defeat me?  If my bandit troop can disrupt the mining opperations of a powerful guild enough, will they loose a war that they might otherwise have won?  Can I convince a number of island city-states to join together into a lasting union?

In games like WoW, these types of things are faked in quests that everyone participates in.  The end result of the quest, regardless of success, is always that nothing in the game world really changes.  In an open PvP sandbox where resources can be taken and must be protected, there's no need to fake these sorts of stories.  They're a direct result of the PvP competition and thus the game world is constantly changing.

As to the question of what role items will play in the game, I can only assume that they will give players an edge in combat...  Of course there's going to be high level gear, but I imagine that even the dagger or sword you start the game with will do at least a point of damage per hit to your enemy even if he's wearing enchanted armor, and no matter how powerful your opponent's spells or weapons are, it should be possible for a first level character to jump back and dodge them, at least in theory.  There's no artificial mechanic that forces one player to win based on the amount of time spent grinding, but it always helps to do a bit more damage and take a few more hits.

Imagine the old saying "don't bring a knife to a gun fight".  Of course the person with the knife is at a huge disadvantage, but the knife can still kill, so the poor knife wielding noob still has a chance.

Who knows, maybe the guy with all the fancy gear got lucky and found the ultimate dead body, and he really can't hit a dodging character for crap...  For that fact, maybe the guy in noob gear just lost to a horde of dragons and is actually skilled enough to cut you apart even with the noob knife he's currently carrying.

As for how much it will "hurt" to loose your gear, I suppose that depends on what you're carrying.  If you're decked out with a bunch of enchanted gear made from mithril and dragon's blood, then I imagine it'll hurt a lot.  You'll have lost a lot of your edge in combat and you'll need to spend some serious coin or time to get that edge back.  Re-supplying with cheap, mundane gear, however, will still allow you to participate meaningfully in combat if you play carefully, skillfully, and smart.

I haven't been in yet, hope to soon though.

The animation in that ad video was really bad BTW - there is no way to look at that and say it is OK.

The answer has been covered - sandboxes are great.

It is why I have been jumping MMO constantly for 8 years now:  quest/kill grinding, cookie cutter characters, predictable tactic/strategy is boring after 4-6 months no matter how many expansions they do.

There are only two games I can play past 6 months - Eve Online and DragonRealms.  Both are skill based - raise skills and your abilities are better. And DR is text based so I am not a graphics snob when I criticize the animation.

Regarding the one wrong move lose it all - that is a decision to make when you go out - no one makes you gear up your most uberness with every coin invested on you.

In my view the challenge of managing limited resources against an earned skill set is what is so great about it.

Originally posted by GundamAce

I think the feature that draws me to this game the most is that, from what I've read, the gameplay is focused less on level or equipment grinding and more on controling resources and territory.  This means that unlike in most previous MMO's, there's a chance that my actions could influence the story of the game for years to come.  I could, in theory, help to build a guild, a city, or an empire that other players will have to consider when making decisions about what they want to do.

I like the idea of having to consider what consequences my actions might have.  Will my skirmish set off a war between two powerful nations?  If I raise a powerful enough army, will it cause two warring nations to call a cease fire and ally together to defeat me?  If my bandit troop can disrupt the mining opperations of a powerful guild enough, will they loose a war that they might otherwise have won?  Can I convince a number of island city-states to join together into a lasting union?

In games like WoW, these types of things are faked in quests that everyone participates in.  The end result of the quest, regardless of success, is always that nothing in the game world really changes.  In an open PvP sandbox where resources can be taken and must be protected, there's no need to fake these sorts of stories.  They're a direct result of the PvP competition and thus the game world is constantly changing.

As to the question of what role items will play in the game, I can only assume that they will give players an edge in combat...  Of course there's going to be high level gear, but I imagine that even the dagger or sword you start the game with will do at least a point of damage per hit to your enemy even if he's wearing enchanted armor, and no matter how powerful your opponent's spells or weapons are, it should be possible for a first level character to jump back and dodge them, at least in theory.  There's no artificial mechanic that forces one player to win based on the amount of time spent grinding, but it always helps to do a bit more damage and take a few more hits.

Imagine the old saying "don't bring a knife to a gun fight".  Of course the person with the knife is at a huge disadvantage, but the knife can still kill, so the poor knife wielding noob still has a chance.

Who knows, maybe the guy with all the fancy gear got lucky and found the ultimate dead body, and he really can't hit a dodging character for crap...  For that fact, maybe the guy in noob gear just lost to a horde of dragons and is actually skilled enough to cut you apart even with the noob knife he's currently carrying.

As for how much it will "hurt" to loose your gear, I suppose that depends on what you're carrying.  If you're decked out with a bunch of enchanted gear made from mithril and dragon's blood, then I imagine it'll hurt a lot.  You'll have lost a lot of your edge in combat and you'll need to spend some serious coin or time to get that edge back.  Re-supplying with cheap, mundane gear, however, will still allow you to participate meaningfully in combat if you play carefully, skillfully, and smart.

You, sir, are welcome in my guild any time! 

you can almost do anything in the game none of this carebear crap! I like a game where its a thrill to log on not sitting at the trader monging out.

Originally posted by ZalKin

But i just don't see anything i like about Darkfall! I'm don't like the graphics, i don't like the animations, i don't like the sound and the gameplay just doesn't seem fun for me. There is nothing i like about this game. And there seems to be so many people defending it (mostly in a hostile way).

The game is going to fail miserably. I would literally bet everything I own on that.  It's so obvious that it's almost laughable people still follow it after the god aweful video they released.

It's nothing more than a crappy looking combat system with outdated graphics.

It's overhyped junk plain and simple. No other way to put it. Just like Dark and Light -- eventually people will finally see what the game is and IS NOT.  And it's the IS NOT part that will make it fail.

It will launch "probably" and due to the hype maybe even get a decent amount of subscribers for the first month or two than it will slowly dwindle as people get bored with the outdated graphics , lack of content beyond a combat system (iam sure) , and just run off to play games like War and Lich King and who knows what else...

They could not even get a real video game publisher to take this on. They had to settle for a completely inexperienced DVD distributor who was looking to try and halt their losses from software piracy by expanding into online video games. Darkfall is nothing more than a "test the waters" for them.

You would think that if this game really was able to live up to its hype that real game publishers would of snapped it up instantly.

This is Darkfalls fate.. unfortunately.. It missed the boat by about 4 years.

Of course the fanboys won't ever accept this as a possible outcome because they're all still playing the "amazing" game in their heads like they've been doing for the past 7 years.

Reality will soon deliver the proverbial slap in the face and show it for what it truly is though.

Nothing ever plays like it sounds on paper. EVER.

Originally posted by Tyro01

Because i can ass rape you ingame for makeing this thread.

Yes I am sure there will be plenty of "ass raping" going on in the game.

Just one more reason it will fail miserably.

Originally posted by tsitluc

Originally posted by ZalKin

But i just don't see anything i like about Darkfall! I'm don't like the graphics, i don't like the animations, i don't like the sound and the gameplay just doesn't seem fun for me. There is nothing i like about this game. And there seems to be so many people defending it (mostly in a hostile way).

The game is going to fail miserably. I would literally bet everything I own on that.  It's so obvious that it's almost laughable people still follow it after the god aweful video they released.

It's nothing more than a crappy looking combat system with outdated graphics.

It's overhyped junk plain and simple. No other way to put it. Just like Dark and Light -- eventually people will finally see what the game is and IS NOT.  And it's the IS NOT part that will make it fail.

It will launch "probably" and due to the hype maybe even get a decent amount of subscribers for the first month or two than it will slowly dwindle as people get bored with the outdated graphics , lack of content beyond a combat system (iam sure) , and just run off to play games like War and Lich King and who knows what else...

They could not even get a real video game publisher to take this on. They had to settle for a completely inexperienced DVD distributor who was looking to try and halt their losses from software piracy by expanding into online video games. Darkfall is nothing more than a "test the waters" for them.

You would think that if this game really was able to live up to its hype that real game publishers would of snapped it up instantly.

This is Darkfalls fate.. unfortunately.. It missed the boat by about 4 years.

Of course the fanboys won't ever accept this as a possible outcome because they're all still playing the "amazing" game in their heads like they've been doing for the past 7 years.

Reality will soon deliver the proverbial slap in the face and show it for what it truly is though.

Nothing ever plays like it sounds on paper. EVER.

 

Awww honey.  You need a warm cup of tea and a nice back rub doncha now?  You're right, darkfall is going to be absolutely terrible, and it is going to fail so hard and and oh man they are going to try to sell us T-shirts to increase profits and.. and there will only be 10 skills and 10 spells and there WILL NOT be full loot and.... no clan cities. 

I'll be happy playing darkfall with my 100 friends paying 50 bucks a month if we have only the skeleton of a sandbox game with some dedicated devs there improving upon it.  Your post is completely useless and pointless.  Your threatening tone makes you sound like you were either fired by Aventurine, or beaten out for a job there by a girl. 

BTW I'll take that bet and all your shit when Darkfall does just fine. 

e- btw whoever mentioned there was no fishing in the video, there was fishing... two guys on a skiff looking boat fishing in a little rivulet.  

in darkfall we are complety free in doing what we want...and there will no lvl, so in war will win the clan with more strategy and not the clan with top players in...

members of the same race and same class won't be all equal, but will grow up in different ways, so you will have always different pvp...

Originally posted by ZalKin

So i'm asking you: What is so great about Darkfall?

The greatest thing about Darkfall right now, as with Mortal Online, Trials of Ascension or Dark&Light (before release), is that it's a Mind MMORPG. Meaning that people *imagine*, based on written features and nothing else, the amazing things they will be able to do in this imaginary game. You wouldn't believe the things the fanboys wrote about what they would do in D&L, like assaulting long caravans that were bringing materials to a sieged city that was rebuilding the defenses. And watching attack ships in flames beyond the shoulder of Orion, yeah right.

Your can also visit the Mortal Online forums to see the exact same phenomenon.

But..., there is something about being naive, the innocence, it's pure and virginal. Too bad they will be awoken so badly by reality. But they will soon have another game to dream about. In fact, the best thing that could happen to them is having still years and years to dream about Darkfall.