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9/02/08 10:19:38 AM#61
Originally posted by Azor1990
Better looking games like AoC?
Why have you brought up AoC twice? If lots of games with good graphics failed then you might be making some kind of point but this is just one game. Besides it did not fail because of its good graphics so it obviously does not prove that good graphics are not important. It received negative feedback because of its bads implementation, launch and bugs. Oh and dont worry I'm not expecting anything spectacular from Darkfall I can assure you. Obviously I will wait for it to come out......what else am I going to do? I thought we were talking about why people say good graphics matter. |
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9/02/08 10:21:06 AM#62
Originally posted by micona
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9/02/08 10:24:35 AM#63
Originally posted by neonwire
Diablo and Ultima Online came out in 1997. Diablo 2 came out 3 years after that. You may not have realised this but guess what? We are in 2008 now! Yeah thats right graphics have moved on since then. Darkfall is not being released 11 years ago.......although it has taken 7 years to make which is probably why it looks so outdated. I remember playing the original Diablo and actually for its time it looked pretty good. Also it might be worth pointing out that when people talk about graphics in games it is generally assumed that they are referring to the overall look of the game which includes the animations. Its all part of the visual "feel" of a game. Other games manage to look good so why cant that apply to Darkfall as well? Or does the fact that it is doing something a bit different to other mmos somehow make it excempt from the rules?
You seem to think I'm defending Darkfall in some way, I'm not. I was just saying even though some games out there that don't have the graphics up to todays power can still be immersive and fun but animations are a completely different matter, frankly Darkfall is lacking seriously on NPC and character animations, for instance a few things popped out instantly to me, melee combat it doesn't seem to matter if you are using a sword, mace or axe you still get the same clumsy looking arm and hand slapping movement no matter what weapon is used and then there was the dwarf running out of a fortress near the end of the trailer, there was no smoothness to the animation at all, it looked incredibly stiff running down that hill as if the only thing that was animated were the little stubby dwarf legs. Don't know if you can run it? |
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9/02/08 10:34:19 AM#64
graphic whores.. because some people wont be happy untill they are plugged into the matrix lol
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9/02/08 10:43:20 AM#65
Originally posted by jinxit
You seem to think I'm defending Darkfall in some way, I'm not. I was just saying even though some games out there that don't have the graphics up to todays power can still be immersive and fun but animations are a completely different matter, frankly Darkfall is lacking seriously on NPC and character animations, for instance a few things popped out instantly to me, melee combat it doesn't seem to matter if you are using a sword, mace or axe you still get the same clumsy looking arm and hand slapping movement no matter what weapon is used and then there was the dwarf running out of a fortress near the end of the trailer, there was no smoothness to the animation at all, it looked incredibly stiff running down that hill as if the only thing that was animated were the little stubby dwarf legs.
Oops silly me jumping off the deep end as usual. Apologies for that. But yes I thought the same thing about the fighting animations too. There just didnt seem to be any skill or tactics involved. It didnt appear to matter what weapon you had......it was just "run at enemy and chop up and down with weapon". In fact the only animations that I remember being at least half decent were the mounts. |
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9/02/08 11:13:08 AM#66
Originally posted by neonwire
You seem to think I'm defending Darkfall in some way, I'm not. I was just saying even though some games out there that don't have the graphics up to todays power can still be immersive and fun but animations are a completely different matter, frankly Darkfall is lacking seriously on NPC and character animations, for instance a few things popped out instantly to me, melee combat it doesn't seem to matter if you are using a sword, mace or axe you still get the same clumsy looking arm and hand slapping movement no matter what weapon is used and then there was the dwarf running out of a fortress near the end of the trailer, there was no smoothness to the animation at all, it looked incredibly stiff running down that hill as if the only thing that was animated were the little stubby dwarf legs.
Oops silly me jumping off the deep end as usual. Apologies for that. But yes I thought the same thing about the fighting animations too. There just didnt seem to be any skill or tactics involved. It didnt appear to matter what weapon you had......it was just "run at enemy and chop up and down with weapon". In fact the only animations that I remember being at least half decent were the mounts. i seen right to left attack left attacks over the ehad attack and stabbing and then dual weilding attack.. tactics what about the guy that got blasted offen the waterfall? from the other guy that went from meele with a sword backed up switch to staff. bam granted the bigger battles didnt have the stragy part but get into beta and give feedback on the swings and stuff... all that can be worked on as long as the game works |
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9/02/08 11:24:56 AM#67
Originally posted by downtoearth
Oops silly me jumping off the deep end as usual. Apologies for that. But yes I thought the same thing about the fighting animations too. There just didnt seem to be any skill or tactics involved. It didnt appear to matter what weapon you had......it was just "run at enemy and chop up and down with weapon". In fact the only animations that I remember being at least half decent were the mounts. i seen right to left attack left attacks over the ehad attack and stabbing and then dual weilding attack.. tactics what about the guy that got blasted offen the waterfall? from the other guy that went from meele with a sword backed up switch to staff. bam granted the bigger battles didnt have the stragy part but get into beta and give feedback on the swings and stuff... all that can be worked on as long as the game works
Yeah you're right it could all get ironed out before it gets released. Fingers crossed. |
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9/02/08 11:29:01 AM#68
and release could get delayed it the game has issues when beta starts we have to just see what happens. we should know by now they are willing to delay |
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9/02/08 12:23:21 PM#69
Originally posted by Borkotron This is a good point. After experiencing both extremes of the spectrum I have to say that graphics have very little impact on how much I enjoy a game. I might sit in awe of a game with great graphics for 20 minutes or so, but after the thrill has worn off, it is all gameplay from there.
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Reklaw
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/07/06
Freedom is the will to be responsible to ourselves. |
9/03/08 12:32:12 AM#70
Originally posted by c1c3r0
Why are people saying that graphics matter? because people like me have been with games for about 30+ years? meaning I know what bad graphics are, I am also a gamer meaning I upgrade when needed, now if I wasn't a gamer I wouldn't upgrade as much and I would settle for less graphics, but as a gamer that upgrades afcourse I want my graphics to look good, but at the same time I also want my gameplay good, it must be a mix of the two. And sorry I will not comment yet on the game (Darkfal) that I havn't played/tested to say if the graphic are good or bad, will comment on that when I have actualy play/tested the game and seen it on my own system before saying if they are good or bad. ------------------------------------------------------------ |
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9/03/08 11:34:58 AM#71
I think that most the people making arguments against DFs graphics are pretty ignorant. Yes I think some things could use improvement.. namely character animations. But people bitching about the spell details and just the overall look of the graphics are fairly ignorant as to what this game is about and the limitations of the internet.
In a game like this you CAN'T have super graphics. You CAN'T compare this to WoW.. or WAR.. or any other traditional pve based mmo game. I don't care how good your computer is you'll end up getting lag in big pvp fights and then you've basically screwed over the game play.. but damn.. at least while you're frozen you can stare at some pretty good looking graphics.
If the graphics would stop you from trying this game then you should stick with traditional pve games like WoW or EQ or even the PvE version of a PvP game.. WAR. If you haven't played Shadowbane or Ultima Online... then just stop posting you're negative opinions in this thread because you really can't understand a game like this until you've played one like it. Out of the games out there right now, EVE is really the only other game that could even come close right now to what Darkfall is like and it's still quite a bit different from Darkfall.
All I can really say is this.. If you like PvP.. then ignore your impressions of what the graphics are like and just try the game. DF says they expect everyone to be able to actually play the game before they buy it so it shouldn't take any risk by anyone to just give it a shot. I'd also suggest finding a decent guild because going it alone won't be fun.. unless that's really your thing. |
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9/03/08 11:54:57 AM#72
Lol guys, so many good explanations, but none of them are correct. This has nothing to do with graphics, or, for that matter, true "graphics" whiners. There are no graphics whiners on this forum. The people who are ripping on the graphics today are the same people who were crying "Vaporware" yesterday. They are either 2 things: a) They've trolled these forums for several years, and don't want to stop. (Unlikely, most trolls move on to more fertile forums after a time) b) They've unloaded so many arguments about why Darkfall is vaporware over the years that they can't bear to admit they're wrong. I think the majority of them fall under section B. They cannot bear to admit they were wrong, and they are also too proud to simply disappear from the forums and let the Darkfallers celebrate. They just hate Darkfall fans too much to let it go. One thing is certain. This has nothing to do with graphics. ------------------------------------------ Darkfall wins. Vaportrolls lose. |
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Zekiah
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/06/07
Hype (noun) |
9/03/08 11:58:24 AM#73
Originally posted by m0j0mann Hmm, some interesting thoughts there. I think you might be right because the graphics look great to me. The animations need work but those aren't too difficult to fix. One thing's for sure though, pride and ego are nasty animals. "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky |
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9/03/08 11:58:53 AM#74
Originally posted by m0j0mann
This couldn't be more true. A lot of us predicted this way before the video came out. We said that once it is released, and then beta, and then actual release, you guys will still find something to bash while completely ignoring the fact that you were wrong about the other topics. Now to be fair graphics are based on personal opinion, so some people may not like them. But when the majority of people just say "graphics suck lol go back to 1990" or "not any better than eq or sb" then they are 100% wrong, and opinion is no longer a defense. It is just fact that their statements are incorrect. We will never please them, but we never really felt like we had to. It is more in defense of new players wanting to learn about this game. ~~ Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296 "The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester "If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos |
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9/03/08 12:21:58 PM#75
It's pretty obvious. I've never seen this much whining about graphics before. In fact, the vast majority of gamers I talk to, from FPS players to RTS, all of them value gameplay far above graphics. The only logical explanation is that they're simply the same old vaportrolls with a different face. ------------------------------------------ Darkfall wins. Vaportrolls lose. |
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singsofdeath
 Novice Member
Joined: 1/28/06
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." |
9/03/08 12:26:42 PM#76
Originally posted by m0j0mann That may be true in some cases. Especially those who, as stated above, make ridiculous comparisons such as comparing the graphics to EQ1 or the like. That is just plain idiocy and obvious trolling.
However, anyone who claims Graphics are totally irrelevant is just the other side of the same medal. If graphics were totally irrelevant, we'd all be playing MUD's instead of MMO's. Much more freedom in those and no wasted power on Graphics at all!
Graphics are important, because they create an atmosphere and they let you experience the world. If they just feel plain -wrong- to some people, then that is their opinion and you can't well dismiss that because that opinion is just as valid as yours.
Cheers! |
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9/03/08 12:42:32 PM#77
Originally posted by singsofdeath That may be true in some cases. Especially those who, as stated above, make ridiculous comparisons such as comparing the graphics to EQ1 or the like. That is just plain idiocy and obvious trolling.
However, anyone who claims Graphics are totally irrelevant is just the other side of the same medal. If graphics were totally irrelevant, we'd all be playing MUD's instead of MMO's. Much more freedom in those and no wasted power on Graphics at all!
Graphics are important, because they create an atmosphere and they let you experience the world. If they just feel plain -wrong- to some people, then that is their opinion and you can't well dismiss that because that opinion is just as valid as yours.
Cheers!
MUDs have no graphics at all. Obiously I agree to an extent. 2D games will be destined to fail. Darkfall is not one of those, not even close. There is absolutely no reason for whining. This further reinforces my point that the so-called "graphics whiners" are merely Vaportrolls looking for new shit they can rub on Darkfall fans. Personally, I think unrealistic and old-style graphics can, more often than not, be part of the reason a game is so succesful. Emphasis on "unrealistic". An example, FF9. One of my favorite games, and still just as playable today as it ever was. The graphics aren't even close to realistic, and aren't even close to today's standards, but that's part of it's charm, IMO. The backgrounds of the game, though in 2D, are amazingly beuatiful nonetheless. A better example would be Warcraft-3 and WoW. It's unrealistic, cartoonish style of graphics was much praised and IMO was a big factor in it's sucess. FFXI and Star Wars Galaxies, which both released at the same time as WoW, failed, despite having better graphics. And as someone mentioned earlier, Runescape. It's graphics are some of the worst I've seen in any 3D game, but have their charm nonetheless.. It's quests and full-loot wilderness PvP system are above average, though it's point-and-click gameplay left much to be desired. Yet I played runescape happily for over a year. A game does not need to have Crysis-level graphics to be fun, immersive, or commercially succesful. In fact, in my opinion, over-realistic graphics can more often than not be a turn-off.
------------------------------------------ Darkfall wins. Vaportrolls lose. |
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9/03/08 1:14:18 PM#78
Originally posted by m0j0mann
MUDs have no graphics at all. Obiously I agree to an extent. 2D games will be destined to fail. Darkfall is not one of those, not even close. There is absolutely no reason for whining. This further reinforces my point that the so-called "graphics whiners" are merely Vaportrolls looking for new shit they can rub on Darkfall fans. Personally, I think unrealistic and old-style graphics can, more often than not, be part of the reason a game is so succesful. Emphasis on "unrealistic". An example, FF9. One of my favorite games, and still just as playable today as it ever was. The graphics aren't even close to realistic, and aren't even close to today's standards, but that's part of it's charm, IMO. The backgrounds of the game, though in 2D, are amazingly beuatiful nonetheless. A better example would be Warcraft-3 and WoW. It's unrealistic, cartoonish style of graphics was much praised and IMO was a big factor in it's sucess. FFXI and Star Wars Galaxies, which both released at the same time as WoW, failed, despite having better graphics. And as someone mentioned earlier, Runescape. It's graphics are some of the worst I've seen in any 3D game, but have their charm nonetheless.. It's quests and full-loot wilderness PvP system are above average, though it's point-and-click gameplay left much to be desired. Yet I played runescape happily for over a year. A game does not need to have Crysis-level graphics to be fun, immersive, or commercially succesful. In fact, in my opinion, over-realistic graphics can more often than not be a turn-off.
FFXi didnt fail... it has 500k subs still SWg had less because it was very buggy, it failed because of the Cu and NGE |
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9/03/08 1:20:51 PM#79
Originally posted by downtoearth
My point exactly. Graphics are rarely, if ever, a factor to a game's success, or it's enjoyability. ------------------------------------------ Darkfall wins. Vaportrolls lose. |
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9/03/08 1:45:28 PM#80
I've never commented on this game, and admittedly looked into it very little at all. But I did just check out the latest video posted. If they can do it all that is in that video, I'll play it. I played UO when it first came out, text-based MUDs, and early Everquest. I'm definitely more for what's shown in that video than what the big mainstream games deliver. Probably in the minority of the new wave of mmo players no doubt, but this definitely appeals to me. The only other possible MMO that even comes close to piquing my interest is the World of Darkness MMO that CCP is working on, and won't be out for quite some time. Yes, the particle/explosion/etc. effects are definitely cheesy, but I can live with that if the gameplay itself is as cool as is shown in the video. If it's not, oh well, not like it can do any worse than recent MMOs that are, in my humble opinion, garbage. I'm the type that when I hear things like, "Oblivion is the best game ever!" I shudder. Yes, the initial WOW graphics-ness hit me for the first bit, then I realized how shallow and boring it was. I can live with something subpar super insane, bring-computers-to-their-knees graphics, in exchange for gameplay, as well as huge battles that don't require downgrading graphics just to see them. We'll see though how it turns out, it doesn't matter either way to me really. Though it would be nice to see something unique rather than the same standard boredomfest mold that everyone is copying now, or barely deviating from. ---------------------------- |
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Wait first for the game to release,they are still in beta.Things may change but i doubt about that.Aventurine is a small company,thats their 1st mmo,so dont expect anything spectacular.
The problem is the internet. Big fights with good graphics and spell details = lag. Just a fact. The graphics are the way they are for a reason.. and yes some things can and should be improved but then we're talking animations more then the look of the graphics. and I'd be willing to bet that the graphics will look better to you when you're playing the game yourself rather then watching the video.
