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9/01/08 8:04:10 PM#21
Originally posted by Saggra
You actually think you have a computer that can play vanguard with shadows on everything. now thats funny .
the lack of shading effects in this game are just lazy and poor development. It takes a lot of time and precision to do art the right way, and Vanguard took the lazy route. The environment looks fake, it looks synthetic, and it suffers from a lack of immersion from it. Excuse it all you want but done properly, this game should have much better visual effects than it currently does. Tecmo Bowl. |
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9/01/08 9:14:53 PM#22
Vanguard isn't on life support because of a lack of fan-made trailers, it's on life support because server counts and subscriber numbers are what's considered vitality, and Vanguard has no room to dip even further with either. |
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9/01/08 10:10:47 PM#23
I watched the video and it did remind me of some of the higher quality aspects of Vanguard. Damn this game should be better than it is. That being said I must be missing something as I don't really understand the original posters point. SOE announced the trial, character model revamps and something else I didn't exactly follow. Is that an expansion or is it just the revamp of a dungeon I have been reading about.
The game is nearing its 2 year mark and honestly not much has changed. Performanced has been ironed out and some project the much bigger Sigil team was working on have been completed. Otherwise it still looks like a slow road for any kind of game growth to be honest. I'm not saying the game is on its death bed, but it sure isn't being given the resources that it needs [some would say deserves].
It is sad really, because of all the games on the station pass this one has the most potential to be a contender. |
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Autodidact82
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 2/12/08
"Sleep on...fly on. |
9/01/08 10:40:45 PM#24
Oh my god... i swear. It seem's more and more people here are using trivial excuses to put down the game. Making me lose more faith in a online community especially this one. Where people have to say "Game sucks cause a fricken building can't cast a shadow" or "If they took out diplomacy... this game wouldn't suck" << that was my favorite. Or "The game doesnt hold my hand through it... whaaaaaa... VG sucks" What the f**k ever happened to playing the game, and not being anal bout the trivial s**t. Whatever happened looking deep with in and actually to find the good. But it seem's to many people are stuck being incompentant with that. I can respect more people coming in saying VG is not for them. And if they respect it enough to be like "Hey this wasn't for me but it could a game for you". Rather then someone coming writing a novel. How the game didnt hold their hand for example.. and the game is not worth it. But hey whatever...... things will never change. I'm about sick of this damn website. |
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9/01/08 11:38:02 PM#25
Originally posted by Autodidact82
Some meaningful improvements have occurred in Vanguard due to people who felt the game weren't for them. The reason being they had a reason WHY it wasn't for them. |
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9/01/08 11:44:59 PM#26
Originally posted by BigMango Beside Age of Conan ( that came after Vanguard ) and Everquest 2 ( that most players dont let all shadows on ), wich MMO are you playing that has full dynamic shadows in every object? (Lotro, L2, War, WoW, GW, D&D as Vanguard doesnt have full dynamic shadows)
About the OP, just compare the content added to Vanguard since the release with most MMORPGs... A game without basic members in the developer team like modelers and artists is on life support.
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9/01/08 11:53:00 PM#27
Vanguard is one of the best looking MMOs out there today, and I have to say, it has THE BEST DUNGEONS of any game in recent memory. That being said... every time I get excited about it, I remember how much better it could be, and it loses its luster. |
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Completely agree Now playing: Nothing |
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9/02/08 3:24:14 AM#29
Originally posted by metalcore @ Metal and others Don't blame the website ,its up to us the fans of Vanguard to defend it .When we see fatuous criticism from the likes of Umbral lets just disagree with them and explain why. We know the game has many positive and enjoyable aspects to it .If you leave and let the uninformed negativity become the standard opinion we are doing Vanguard a disservice .There are many new potential players who come to MMORPG and I feel they need to know the whats good about Vanguard . Fight the good fight :)
"after the time of dice came the day of mice " |
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9/02/08 4:44:09 AM#30
Originally posted by bcrankshaw
Well So explain to me Why they dont have an animator and a texture artist (check the new models body, they failed to deliver a stylized or a realistic body, check the abs and about the animator, they even say they dont have one)? Why so few real content updates (Im not talking about performance fixes here)? Why I should not be disappointed because they will never release an expansion? Why after check how many content updates EQ2 always get from SOE and compare with Vanguard´s updates I should belive they will someday expand Vanguard? Why should I belive the game is not on life support if they cant and will not finish an important feature like diplomacy? Why do you belive my criticism is not valid? Oh, btw, I even defended Vanguard against the lack of shadows complain. It is ok you love the game, but I dont think is good for the game community pure blind devotion.
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9/02/08 8:41:28 AM#31
Originally posted by Umbral
Well So explain to me Why they dont have an animator and a texture artist (check the new models body, they failed to deliver a stylized or a realistic body, check the abs and about the animator, they even say they dont have one)? The post was about that the game is not on lifesupport because it have animators. But one can wonder why they are tweaking the models on a game that is on "lifesupport"? Why so few real content updates (Im not talking about performance fixes here)? Why I should not be disappointed because they will never release an expansion? Why after check how many content updates EQ2 always get from SOE and compare with Vanguard´s updates I should belive they will someday expand Vanguard? Maybe they have devoted alot of their few resources on the trial island. Why should I belive the game is not on life support if they cant and will not finish an important feature like diplomacy? Finish? Besides that they have said they are to work more on diplomacy. And let's see what it gets now that the trial island is close to be finished. Why do you belive my criticism is not valid? Oh, btw, I even defended Vanguard against the lack of shadows complain. It is ok you love the game, but I dont think is good for the game community pure blind devotion. No, but that works both ways. Look at what you colored. It doesn't have to be blind devotion just because someone disagrees with you. (But that was not your point, I'm just pointing it out.)
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I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention. |
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9/02/08 9:10:56 AM#32
Originally posted by Orphes
Orphes, I think you illustrate the state of the game and didn't realize it. The game is seriously lacking in content updates to be considered anything but on a bare minimum or "life support" status as others have said. If it takes so many of the "few resources" that the game has to put out a trial which has been in the works/promised for over a year then what else needs to be said? I am just being realistic about the current state of the game. We can hope things change once they get the trial out as you say or that content will soon be announced, but until that happens all evidence points to the opposite. I honestly think Vanguard would out perform EQ2 in a heartbeat if it could get an expansion, but for it doesn't look like SOE is interested in trying that.
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9/02/08 9:23:51 AM#33
Originally posted by Daffid011
Orphes, I think you illustrate the state of the game and didn't realize it. The game is seriously lacking in content updates to be considered anything but on a bare minimum or "life support" status as others have said. Maybe I did. I am twisting the life support thing. I can both agree with that it is on life support and not. If it takes so many of the "few resources" that the game has to put out a trial which has been in the works/promised for over a year then what else needs to be said? I am just being realistic about the current state of the game. We can hope things change once they get the trial out as you say or that content will soon be announced, but until that happens all evidence points to the opposite. I honestly think Vanguard would out perform EQ2 in a heartbeat if it could get an expansion, but for it doesn't look like SOE is interested in trying that.
Maybe I should reread the thread. But arguments like the game is on LS because it have shadows. I don't agree with that it makes it on LS. I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention. |
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9/02/08 10:08:34 AM#34
Originally posted by Autodidact82
absolutely right on!! I couldn't say it better! 
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9/02/08 10:18:53 AM#35
Originally posted by Umbral
Well So explain to me Why they dont have an animator and a texture artist (check the new models body, they failed to deliver a stylized or a realistic body, check the abs and about the animator, they even say they dont have one)? Why so few real content updates (Im not talking about performance fixes here)? Why I should not be disappointed because they will never release an expansion? Why after check how many content updates EQ2 always get from SOE and compare with Vanguard´s updates I should belive they will someday expand Vanguard? Why should I belive the game is not on life support if they cant and will not finish an important feature like diplomacy? Why do you belive my criticism is not valid? Oh, btw, I even defended Vanguard against the lack of shadows complain. It is ok you love the game, but I dont think is good for the game community pure blind devotion.
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I think that your questions are freeking obvious.... SOE is a business not a charity. VG has a budget and the management running VG is operating within that budget. EQ and EQ2 are SoE products and they are gonna get premier attention. What is life support? They are making changes to the game. They are adding content. So it may be going slower then we would like but it isn't dead. Life support in my mind means that that game is stagnet with no changes. This isn't the case. You criticism is valid it just gets old seeing you post it over and over. Kinda like is the cup half full of half empty. A lot of us think of it has half full and see VG as a great game that just needs to gain more momentum and is trying to take off. Some people just see all the negatives and flaws and focus on that. You tend to focus on the latter.... So yeah disappointment is valid but so is hope and soo is seeing the improvements in a positive light and telling people about the good things in the game and not trying to convince people to bypass this game which really is one of the best PvE games on the market today. I mean I can find shit I don't like in EVERY single game on the market. Guess what NONE are perfect. However for my monthly subscription I vote for VG being the best game for me.
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9/02/08 11:03:15 AM#36
Originally posted by Orphes I agree with everything else you said above, but this I think sums it up best. The game is dead by any means, but I don't think it is growing either. It just seems to be existing for better or worse. It really isn't worth nitpicking about how many shadow effects are in the game or things of that nature. Again we agree. Though I don't think the game is getting anywhere close to enough updates to keep it competitive or make it a long term investment for gaming time. It appears that the game has an end which is a very bad thing for MMOs. |
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9/02/08 11:13:56 AM#37
Originally posted by BigMango
I play with shadows on. Most everything has a shadow, including characters, trees, cliffs, rocks, mounts etc. It's a great effect to see a huge shadow cast over you and your group from a flying mob and/or someone on a flying mount. They've actually done a very good job with shadows in this game. The one thing that doesn't seem to have a shadow is a player made house. Maybe Guild Halls too. |
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9/02/08 2:02:14 PM#38
I think the future of this game will take a turn with the release of the trial island. It will either cause an increase in subs of not. If the game does grow I'm sure we will see more develoment. I know that silus and others working on the Dev team has a lot of ideas and plans. I know that Silus has said he wants to do an expansion. In order for that to happen they just need to get the game to grow some more. If you use xfire as a measure VG still has a low number of players. Lower then eq but getting close and much lower then eq2. My guess is that they have around 30-40k subs which at like $15 per month is around $500K per month or about $6 per year. Depending on server costs that might support an office of 20-30 people. Probably less then 10 devs. Enough to get stuff done but not gonna be able to make huge changes. I think if they could double that number we could see an expansion being a viable idea. Even if we see a good bump over the trial island maybe soe would take notice. I think soe is supportive and probably trying to help. But just not willing to invest money since they have two expansions and three new public games in the works.
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9/02/08 2:29:24 PM#39
I've seen people on these forums state that seradon gets upwards of 1,500 people prime time. Several game developers say a game has around 20% of its user base logged in during prime time, so 1,500x5 = 7,500 for the most popuated server. 4 total servers I would only guess Vanguard is getting 15-20,000 FULL subscriptions amount worth of players due to station pass, etc. That is all just speculation, but I think it is a pretty good guess. On the brighter side is anyone picked up from a trial would see 100% of the sub fee go straight to VG instead of station pass distribution. I don't assume the trial will draw many new players who already have station pass.
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9/02/08 2:35:55 PM#40
Originally posted by Daffid011
We could argue about this forever :P However a general rule of thumb I've heard is not 5x but 10x peak subs. So with 4 servers a peak of 3000-4000 is not a stretch and 10X that is 30-40k. But again we could argue forever on it. So thats my rational. But I'm not sure what your point is. I still think my point that the trial island will be key to their success. BTW another interesting metric is the numbers in xfire which give some feel for relative numbers of players. So you could then say that VG is x% of EQ or EQ2?? So here are the xfire numbers VG 542 eq 1094 eq2 2786 So one could speculate that VG is roughly 50% of eq and a bit less then 20% of eq2.
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