Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by dsebutchr

Has anybody actually played a healer in RvR that can answer this.  Not really interested in your opinion.  I'd like FACTS.

Yes, healers received renown from RvR.  HoTs give small amounts of renown each tic and large heals receive larger amounts of renown.  If a healer is doing what they're supposed to be doing they will almost always have top renown lead.

Personally i like the idea of a healer getting more renown. In the big keep takes etc, healers are the first to get attacked (well should be ) they need all the help they can get. If they re a rank or 2 ahead of my Black Orc and have some available abilities to help me and our grp better good i say. In the end we ll all get to RR 80 who cares if they get there faster. If healers are getting renown faster i say leave it.

I played an Archmage to Rank 17.  As someone mentioned earlier, you get renown from healing.  I was ungrouped for awhile and actually gaining a good amount from just running around HoTing everyone in open RvR.  My gains decreased quite a bit when I grouped up, but that's only because few of the enemy were dropping.  I didn't gain any cash or loot while ungrouped, but the gains were nice.

For scenerios, I enjoyed just healing.  It's nice when at the end you have a huge amount of healing done and people send you tells, praising you for doing your job, and an incredible one at that.  The team with a ton of healing at the end wins many scenerios, which means more gains and loot for all.  I do disagree with the lack of concern over reputation.  If you do a good job, people tend to friend or remember you and that'll pay off for getting invited to dungeons or other events.

Do healers tend to get a lot of support?  Not so much, unless someone notices you under fire, but by then it might be too late.  If a healer gets attacked and they are standing near the other healers, everyone tends to jump in to kill the threat and heal each other.  I had a good time of it.

Originally posted by Prophet

I played a RP during the PW. If anything healers are OP in the calculations. The ratio of healing to damage is fine mechanically, but healers just gain too much renown and contribution for heals. I never had a problem dominating contribution and renown in RvR or PQ's. I personally think it needs to be balanced a little bit more or strong healers might be getting the majority of the loot bags leaving non healing classes crying.

Successful groups will learn to recognize and protect their healers while recognizing and killing the enemy's healers. Fail groups will fail.

Regarding your PQ loot comment; I disagree.  I think it is about as equal as it can be, as a Zealot I usually had very high contribution, top 3-ish,  in any PQ I participated in; that was because I healed everyone, not just those in my warband or my immediate group.  Also, as a Witch Elf I usually was in the top 5 or higher in every PQ because I zoomed around stabby stabby on all the objectives.  Despite the fact that I was usually in the top 5 of every PQ I participated in, I didn't receive the majority of the loot.  I think the PQ is good at getting everyone a fair chance.  Sometimes I'd end up in 18th place after having #1 contribution.  So I wouldn't worry too much about PQ loot going to a good healer every time. 

Spellcasters in general are my main concern, anytime i see one getting attacked I know they are going to go down easily so i try to pull the attackers target, sometimes i fail sometimes i dont. As a Warrior Priest I gain my fair share of points and kills for using my attack-heal-attack approach.

Due to a nice little bug healers even get renown outside of RvR for a little bonus there.

Thanks everyone for your input.

The first few replies were a little Rocky, and could not figure out why everyone was so negative, ( guess they were dis- grunted ex-AoC  players) but you all picked up with some pro-active input.

I now have some restored faith in healers, and my roll one.

Can I get some input on a good one for both Order and destruction ?

I got plenty of renown and exp in RvR and Scenarios on my Zealot.  All I did was keep my friends alive.  Actually leveled faster PvPing then I did PvE with my healer.  Haha.

Healers renknown is based on their healing and their DPS. Of course, you will find some classes leaning more toward healing than DPS and vice versa for others, such as Runepriest vs. Archmage.

As far as not identifying healers, they will always have the same archetype look. Zealots always look like some creepy bent over zombie with a dagger, Archmage's always are dressed in robes and carry a staff, runepriests are stumpy dwarves with a staff, Shamans are a goblin with a staff, warrior priest is a guy with a hammer, and the disciples of khaine always have two swords. That will never change, though the color of their outfit might. This was to make identifying classes easier. As more and more people become familiar with that, then you'll see the healers come under fire a lot more often and need protection.

Originally posted by Captjack001

I got plenty of renown and exp in RvR and Scenarios on my Zealot.  All I did was keep my friends alive.  Actually leveled faster PvPing then I did PvE with my healer.  Haha.

Almost exactly the same experience I have with healers (I healed everyone I could, basically the first wounded I saw got dealt the heal I felt most appropriate to both their injury and to the flow of combat and I healed players that kept me from getting violated healed up as much as possible). I Also leveled a good deal faster RvRing than what I could solo (I <3 the SCs for this one heh).

Zealots/Rune Priests are the only classes so far that I have actually had to worry about my Rank keeping up with my Realm Rank (I wouldn't be surprised if healing RP doesn't get a look over, I hope not though).

Originally posted by Sinnahis

Originally posted by Captjack001

I got plenty of renown and exp in RvR and Scenarios on my Zealot.  All I did was keep my friends alive.  Actually leveled faster PvPing then I did PvE with my healer.  Haha.

 

Almost exactly the same experience I have with healers (I healed everyone I could, basically the first wounded I saw got dealt the heal I felt most appropriate to both their injury and to the flow of combat and I healed players that kept me from getting violated healed up as much as possible). I Also leveled a good deal faster RvRing than what I could solo (I <3 the SCs for this one heh).

Zealots/Rune Priests are the only classes so far that I have actually had to worry about my Rank keeping up with my Realm Rank (I wouldn't be surprised if healing RP doesn't get a look over, I hope not though).

yeah, i wouldn't be surprised if they lower the renown healers get for healing.

Originally posted by Hazmal

Originally posted by Prophet

I played a RP during the PW. If anything healers are OP in the calculations. The ratio of healing to damage is fine mechanically, but healers just gain too much renown and contribution for heals. I never had a problem dominating contribution and renown in RvR or PQ's. I personally think it needs to be balanced a little bit more or strong healers might be getting the majority of the loot bags leaving non healing classes crying.

Successful groups will learn to recognize and protect their healers while recognizing and killing the enemy's healers. Fail groups will fail.

 

Regarding your PQ loot comment; I disagree.  I think it is about as equal as it can be, as a Zealot I usually had very high contribution, top 3-ish,  in any PQ I participated in; that was because I healed everyone, not just those in my warband or my immediate group.  Also, as a Witch Elf I usually was in the top 5 or higher in every PQ because I zoomed around stabby stabby on all the objectives.  Despite the fact that I was usually in the top 5 of every PQ I participated in, I didn't receive the majority of the loot.  I think the PQ is good at getting everyone a fair chance.  Sometimes I'd end up in 18th place after having #1 contribution.  So I wouldn't worry too much about PQ loot going to a good healer every time. 

I didn't really understand how the Loot system worked in this game. All I knew was I was always #1 in tier 2 PQ's and Keep Takings and almost always won a loot bag. After looking around and seeing the math on the rolls for loot, I guess I just got extremely lucky, and I wish I had gone straight to Vegas!

But based on the experiences of most testers, it apparently wont be as big of a problem as I thought. A well played healer will do just fine though, whether they change things up or not.

Originally posted by Hazmal

I do.  Nothing is wrong with the way renown is calculated for a healing class.  If you don't have your head up your ass, you gain a lot of renown.  This is with the assumption that your team also does not have their heads lodged up their asses.  You need to be healing good players to shine as a healer, people that don't know what they are doing die pretty quickly even with heals.

My largest complaint, mostly from PW and not beta, is the lack of healer support.  People like to yell at you for letting them die but will not help peel attackers off of you.  Anyhow, this complaint will change once I am playing with people that I know, and who know how to play.  PW was kind of a bust in some respects because nobody wanted to help anyone and that makes some aspects of the game seem bad when they aren't.

This pretty much sums it up.  In the PW there was no sense of order or discipline.  I played healers and non-healers and it quickly became apparent who had a clue and who didn't.  It was still fun though and didn't bother me... too much.

Originally posted by page

Thanks everyone for your input.

The first few replies were a little Rocky, and could not figure out why everyone was so negative, ( guess they were dis- grunted ex-AoC  players) but you all picked up with some pro-active input.

I now have some restored faith in healers, and my roll one.

Can I get some input on a good one for both Order and destruction ?

How is pointing out that you're asking for a fix for something that's not at all broken equal to being disgruntled?

Unless you're QQing about the fact that people just let you, the healer, die (which can only be helped by teaching people how to play the game), nothing... at all... is wrong. Healers gain renown, healers contribute to RvR substantially, healers gain influence, and good healers become well-known to other players. What is your issue with that, exactly?

Ive played on an off in closed beta for about a month, and most of my rvr experience is w/ healer classes, i didnt notice a lack of renown compared to other classes, however from my exp healers and tankers didnt seem to get as high as scores as ranged dpcs classes,in public quests.i  experimented w/ healing a ton and not healing and just attacking, and i did better when i didnt heal extensivly lol!  As for healers not doing there jobes,  I think its the fact that most of the heals r heal over time, and when u have squads of bright mages attacking u, your gonna die in 1-2 sec s!  Also healers r the number 2 target after nukers, and spend most of there time healing themselves to stay alive! Tanking in meaningless in pvp so u cant really do anything to protect your healers, in fact i usually feel like a rodeo clown in most pvp situations.

I tried healers, tanks, and ranged dps - truth be told, I lost track of how many different toons tried.  They all did a decent job of gaining renown.  The healer and ranged dps had an easier time of it than the tank.  In fact, the tank often struggled - especially if I had nobody healing me.  "Tanks" that focused on damage instead of defense had an easier time than I did behind my shield (of gaining renown), and I would understand if the developers stepped in to try and compensate somehow, though I would not be devastated if they did nothing.  But I digress.  Aside from renown, I can also tell you that as a healer I made money faster during rvr than with any other classes I played.  In defending a keep, I once made well over a gold in about 30 minutes at lvl 10 (and it was a fast 30 minutes!).  (I was grabbing my rr6 gear, and when I was finished I found the keep under siege.  I healed and cursed furiously, and had a blast doing it.  Best of all, despite being a tier 1 in a tier 2 area, I really felt like I was contributing to the fight!)

I plan on playing scenarios and rvr heavily once the game is released, and I plan to roll a healer in some fashion as my first character.  Yes, I'm sure I will have multiple characters, and for the first time, I'm actually excited about the prospect of leveling to the end more than once!

Originally posted by jusagamfrek

I tried healers, tanks, and ranged dps - truth be told, I lost track of how many different toons tried.  They all did a decent job of gaining renown.  The healer and ranged dps had an easier time of it than the tank.  In fact, the tank often struggled - especially if I had nobody healing me.  "Tanks" that focused on damage instead of defense had an easier time than I did behind my shield (of gaining renown), and I would understand if the developers stepped in to try and compensate somehow, though I would not be devastated if they did nothing.  But I digress.  Aside from renown, I can also tell you that as a healer I made money faster during rvr than with any other classes I played.  In defending a keep, I once made well over a gold in about 30 minutes at lvl 10 (and it was a fast 30 minutes!).  (I was grabbing my rr6 gear, and when I was finished I found the keep under siege.  I healed and cursed furiously, and had a blast doing it.  Best of all, despite being a tier 1 in a tier 2 area, I really felt like I was contributing to the fight!)

 

I plan on playing scenarios and rvr heavily once the game is released, and I plan to roll a healer in some fashion as my first character.  Yes, I'm sure I will have multiple characters, and for the first time, I'm actually excited about the prospect of leveling to the end more than once!

I honestly didn't feel it was hard for me to get reknown as my Black Orc, and I planned on going choppa and board. Of course, I was actively seeking out people to smash while keeping my friendly target on whatever healer I decided to guard that scenario (or in open world).

Hmm, easiest way to put this. Yes, they get renown. Right now Order healers seem a bit underpowered compared to destruction. Actually scratch that, destructions goblin and zealot are fine, but the DoK is insanely imbalanced at the moment.

What its like when you have a good archmage healer ( balanced healer, not overpowered or grossly underpowered).

img165.imageshack.us/img165/9874/healer1yi1.jpg

However, having a good archmage healer is moot once a maxed out DoK comes in. Basically, if you want insane renown, roll a DoK until they get nerfed. Ive seen countless DoKs get beat on by 5/6 people and just wont drop. I personally would never play one, it's a walking exploit and people really shouldn't take pride in playing it at it's current state. Has very very little to do with skill as a DoK, atleast right now. The upcoming open patch is rumored to fix several classes, DoK, sorc, bright wizard to name a few.

img294.imageshack.us/img294/7644/healer2ke1.jpg