Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Jesus crust, even when you get the info you want, some of you wont be satisfied. You don't want answers, you just want to bitch.

 

 Well we didnt. Famine said "When it's ready it will be ready. We want to ensure we take our time on it instead of rushing it to live." And gave no other reason for why Mythic can be so direct and open about their development. He just assumes blindly that if you bring the details and dates up into the open, then you would have to rush the patch to be done. However there is no answer to why Mythic makes this work out, and Funcom cant do it without getting stressed out.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Jesus crust, even when you get the info you want, some of you wont be satisfied. You don't want answers, you just want to bitch.

 

No offense, MrBloodworth...but whenever you type anything in a thread, everyone's post in terms of their fonts gets all screwed up...the font you type in becomes everyone's font until you get to the next page.

I thought I was loosing my mind but I narrowed it down to you. Are you using a program different to MMORPG.com's general editor to make your posts? Is this happening to anyone else?

Would you please go back to the default font. Thanks!

Originally posted by Kataal

then why are you on this forum and not on the real AoC forum, where the info is actually posted?

i think thats because the moderators lock anything remotely negative; censorship is really big over there.

---

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Jesus crust, even when you get the info you want, some of you wont be satisfied. You don't want answers, you just want to bitch.

---

I'd like to propose (if I might be so bold) that FC-Famine recruits Mrbloodworth to the moderator team on the official AoC forums (be it the EU or US). FC would do well to get such a talented mind with a keen eye for intellectual discourse on board, last but not least he doesn't afraid of anything.

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Jesus crust, even when you get the info you want, some of you wont be satisfied. You don't want answers, you just want to bitch.

 

 

No offense, MrBloodworth...but whenever you type anything in a thread, everyone's post in terms of their fonts gets all screwed up...the font you type in becomes everyone's font until you get to the next page.

I thought I was loosing my mind but I narrowed it down to you. Are you using a program different to MMORPG.com's general editor to make your posts? Is this happening to anyone else?

Would you please go back to the default font. Thanks!

I use MS word to spell and grammar check. This is an issue with MMOrpg.com, not posters.

Originally posted by ModifyMenuW

---

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Jesus crust, even when you get the info you want, some of you wont be satisfied. You don't want answers, you just want to bitch.

---

I'd like to propose (if I might be so bold) that FC-Famine recruits Mrbloodworth to the moderator team on the official AoC forums (be it the EU or US). FC would do well to get such a talented mind with a keen eye for intellectual discourse on board, last but not least he doesn't afraid of anything.

I'm not a current subscriber, becouse the game is not in a state that i would pay for it. I may be back in a few months depending on patches and the like, and how they go.

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Kataal

then why are you on this forum and not on the real AoC forum, where the info is actually posted?

 

i think thats because the moderators lock anything remotely negative; censorship is really big over there.

I would say moderation has everything to do with posters, and how they present themselves. Seems constructive feedback is a lost art. I haven’t seen any censorship, only moderation because of rule breaking posting, or downright nastiness. Doesn’t mater how much your points may be valid, if you can convey them with out being insulting ETC..

This happens in every game forum, someone posts something with some valid points, but cant do it in a civilized manner that doesn’t break forum rules, then goes around talking about how they were censored.

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by CreepingDoom

Originally posted by Kataal

I think the failcom avatars are ridiculous. If you don't like AoC, fine, go play something else PLEASE. We really don't need another SWG where the trolls waste their time whining for years.

Famine wasn't vague, most of the questions were answered in posts before, as he stated. The update is being tested NOW, and is going to be live within the next two days. How much more specific do you want him to be? Do you want when the patch is going to be up down to the second? well that's not going to happen, because if there was some sort of problem, you all would just whine more. Funcom messed up at launch, but I think they're doing the best they can.

 

Nobody gives a rats ass if you don't like an avatar, post on another forum if it causes you frustration.

Nobody forces you to read this forum.

Famine is ALWAYS vague, get real. The only whiner here is you, a foolish individual with to much blind faith and a napoleon complex.

 

I actually don't mind the avatars personally. If that's how you feel then I respect that.

I know most of the information on the update is not exactly what everyone wants to hear right now. Like I said before on our forums, we are still testing and working out the kinks. When it's ready it will be ready. We want to ensure we take our time on it instead of rushing it to live. This is something that many players have voiced for us to do in relation to the updates and the timeframe in which they happen. The information is also in result of more information incomming in later this week. I just wanted to make sure I touched the topic on letting everyone know that we will have a follow up on the status.

 

Why wasn't that approach taken to closed beta? 

I have many guild members that were in closed beta saying that Funcom is using that line now, but when closed was drawing to a close, you all ignored people begging you guys to delay launch for a year because of just how bad of shape things were in, especially your crafting system.

What this is telling me is that from now on when a developer says things are "mechanically functional" that means "ya, it is in game but runs like crap."

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by CreepingDoom

Originally posted by Kataal

I think the failcom avatars are ridiculous. If you don't like AoC, fine, go play something else PLEASE. We really don't need another SWG where the trolls waste their time whining for years.

Famine wasn't vague, most of the questions were answered in posts before, as he stated. The update is being tested NOW, and is going to be live within the next two days. How much more specific do you want him to be? Do you want when the patch is going to be up down to the second? well that's not going to happen, because if there was some sort of problem, you all would just whine more. Funcom messed up at launch, but I think they're doing the best they can.

 

Nobody gives a rats ass if you don't like an avatar, post on another forum if it causes you frustration.

Nobody forces you to read this forum.

Famine is ALWAYS vague, get real. The only whiner here is you, a foolish individual with to much blind faith and a napoleon complex.

 

I actually don't mind the avatars personally. If that's how you feel then I respect that.

I know most of the information on the update is not exactly what everyone wants to hear right now. Like I said before on our forums, we are still testing and working out the kinks. When it's ready it will be ready. We want to ensure we take our time on it instead of rushing it to live. This is something that many players have voiced for us to do in relation to the updates and the timeframe in which they happen. The information is also in result of more information incomming in later this week. I just wanted to make sure I touched the topic on letting everyone know that we will have a follow up on the status.

 

 

Why wasn't that approach taken to closed beta? 

I have many guild members that were in closed beta saying that Funcom is using that line now, but when closed was drawing to a close, you all ignored people begging you guys to delay launch for a year because of just how bad of shape things were in, especially your crafting system.

What this is telling me is that from now on when a developer says things are "mechanically functional" that means "ya, it is in game but runs like crap."

 

Most likely because publishers make the dates, not developers, they just recommend.

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by CreepingDoom

Originally posted by Kataal

I think the failcom avatars are ridiculous. If you don't like AoC, fine, go play something else PLEASE. We really don't need another SWG where the trolls waste their time whining for years.

Famine wasn't vague, most of the questions were answered in posts before, as he stated. The update is being tested NOW, and is going to be live within the next two days. How much more specific do you want him to be? Do you want when the patch is going to be up down to the second? well that's not going to happen, because if there was some sort of problem, you all would just whine more. Funcom messed up at launch, but I think they're doing the best they can.

 

Nobody gives a rats ass if you don't like an avatar, post on another forum if it causes you frustration.

Nobody forces you to read this forum.

Famine is ALWAYS vague, get real. The only whiner here is you, a foolish individual with to much blind faith and a napoleon complex.

 

I actually don't mind the avatars personally. If that's how you feel then I respect that.

I know most of the information on the update is not exactly what everyone wants to hear right now. Like I said before on our forums, we are still testing and working out the kinks. When it's ready it will be ready. We want to ensure we take our time on it instead of rushing it to live. This is something that many players have voiced for us to do in relation to the updates and the timeframe in which they happen. The information is also in result of more information incomming in later this week. I just wanted to make sure I touched the topic on letting everyone know that we will have a follow up on the status.

 

Thanks for at least replying, though the answer was again not exactly an answer. The purpose of the question was to find out what has been setting it back , you know the problems devs have been facing or issues currently preventing it from going live. Was it the Gem duping and exploiting, balance issues??

I've been pretty level headed over this game and your company,  I'm sure anyone rocking one of those avatars could tell you that. I'd love to be playing your game, however I won't be until this update hits live.

I'm not sure I can respect a developer who delays pushing patches to live because the players have complained that they end up adding more bugs than they fix when doing so.  WTH?  Can't the developers figure that out for themselves?  Since AO, seven years ago, FC has pushed patches to live WAY before they were ready.  But now you're delaying this latest patch because:

"This is something that many players have voiced for us to do in relation to the updates and the timeframe in which they happen. "

Well, duh, good one, FC.  Glad we could help!

{ Mod Edit }

Originally posted by indiramourn

I'm not sure I can respect a developer who delays pushing patches to live because the players have complained that they end up adding more bugs than they fix when doing so.

Um, who said that? No one.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Jesus crust, even when you get the info you want, some of you wont be satisfied. You don't want answers, you just want to bitch.

 

 

No offense, MrBloodworth...but whenever you type anything in a thread, everyone's post in terms of their fonts gets all screwed up...the font you type in becomes everyone's font until you get to the next page.

I thought I was loosing my mind but I narrowed it down to you. Are you using a program different to MMORPG.com's general editor to make your posts? Is this happening to anyone else?

Would you please go back to the default font. Thanks!

I use MS word to spell and grammar check. This is an issue with MMOrpg.com, not posters.

 

 

Well...could you just type in here then rather than typing in MS Word first ad then paste and copying it? It may be an issue with mmorpg.com but when you do that you affect everyone's font and it distorts everything on that entire page.

We would all be highly grateful if you could do it the normal way. Thanks!

I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now that I could care less what happens with AoC. I'm not saying the game that launched wasn't fun, it was just way too broken. Anyhow, I just want to point out that Funcom uses a lot of smokescreen tactics for one very good reason...

THEY DONT HAVE A CLUE WTF THEY ARE DOING!!!

So, because of this, they can't simply state whats on their agenda to be fixed. Seriously, how hard is it to say, this is whats broke, this is what were trying to fix, this is when it will possibly be patched.

Thats all anyone has every asked for, yet because Funcom keeps blowing smoke up their butts, of course they are going to get mad. Especially when Mythic has proven time and time again, open door policy = win / win, cause honesty has always been the best policy.

I would love to know when Famine is going to decide to answer the API post. I mean, seriously! You stated you had the mod pack or whatever on your desk, and it would be coming later that week. Then you stated some problems with it and being pushed back a week. Then you came into another API thread and posted what the mod pack was. Well here's the freaking question yet again.

Were is the dam mod pack?

Now I don't play the game anymore, I don't mod anymore. And I really was only going to make a personal mod for AoC. But that's not the point. The point is you cannot even follow your own deadlines. You say something, then don't say anything. No update, no nothing. No, "Hey guy's, I forgot about the mod pack, we trashed it.". Just silence. So, quit leading people on and just answer one simple question for at least the modder's and UI skinner's out there that have eagerly pieced through the craptastic UI you guy's made. When will we get the information you spoke of? Or can you now state that we are not allowing further customization other than skinning?

This is your doing Famine, not the dev's of the game. So what's the deal?

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by CreepingDoom

Originally posted by Kataal

I think the failcom avatars are ridiculous. If you don't like AoC, fine, go play something else PLEASE. We really don't need another SWG where the trolls waste their time whining for years.

Famine wasn't vague, most of the questions were answered in posts before, as he stated. The update is being tested NOW, and is going to be live within the next two days. How much more specific do you want him to be? Do you want when the patch is going to be up down to the second? well that's not going to happen, because if there was some sort of problem, you all would just whine more. Funcom messed up at launch, but I think they're doing the best they can.

 

Nobody gives a rats ass if you don't like an avatar, post on another forum if it causes you frustration.

Nobody forces you to read this forum.

Famine is ALWAYS vague, get real. The only whiner here is you, a foolish individual with to much blind faith and a napoleon complex.

 

I actually don't mind the avatars personally. If that's how you feel then I respect that.

I know most of the information on the update is not exactly what everyone wants to hear right now. Like I said before on our forums, we are still testing and working out the kinks. When it's ready it will be ready. We want to ensure we take our time on it instead of rushing it to live. This is something that many players have voiced for us to do in relation to the updates and the timeframe in which they happen. The information is also in result of more information incomming in later this week. I just wanted to make sure I touched the topic on letting everyone know that we will have a follow up on the status.

 

blind faith?
 

theres nothing blind about it. some of us want funcom to put together a great game. some also feel the mechanics and potential are there for a great experience. so its not blind faith, you see.

i think you should just leave it alone, already.

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Jesus crust, even when you get the info you want, some of you wont be satisfied. You don't want answers, you just want to bitch.

 

 

No offense, MrBloodworth...but whenever you type anything in a thread, everyone's post in terms of their fonts gets all screwed up...the font you type in becomes everyone's font until you get to the next page.

I thought I was loosing my mind but I narrowed it down to you. Are you using a program different to MMORPG.com's general editor to make your posts? Is this happening to anyone else?

Would you please go back to the default font. Thanks!

I use MS word to spell and grammar check. This is an issue with MMOrpg.com, not posters.

 

 

 

Well...could you just type in here then rather than typing in MS Word first ad then paste and copying it? It may be an issue with mmorpg.com but when you do that you affect everyone's font and it distorts everything on that entire page.

We would all be highly grateful if you could do it the normal way. Thanks!

Yes I agree it makes my eyes bleed and I can hardly read what people write. It would be nice if you could stop reformatting this forum. Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by CreepingDoom

Originally posted by Kataal

I think the failcom avatars are ridiculous. If you don't like AoC, fine, go play something else PLEASE. We really don't need another SWG where the trolls waste their time whining for years.

Famine wasn't vague, most of the questions were answered in posts before, as he stated. The update is being tested NOW, and is going to be live within the next two days. How much more specific do you want him to be? Do you want when the patch is going to be up down to the second? well that's not going to happen, because if there was some sort of problem, you all would just whine more. Funcom messed up at launch, but I think they're doing the best they can.

 

Nobody gives a rats ass if you don't like an avatar, post on another forum if it causes you frustration.

Nobody forces you to read this forum.

Famine is ALWAYS vague, get real. The only whiner here is you, a foolish individual with to much blind faith and a napoleon complex.

 

I actually don't mind the avatars personally. If that's how you feel then I respect that.

I know most of the information on the update is not exactly what everyone wants to hear right now. Like I said before on our forums, we are still testing and working out the kinks. When it's ready it will be ready. We want to ensure we take our time on it instead of rushing it to live. This is something that many players have voiced for us to do in relation to the updates and the timeframe in which they happen. The information is also in result of more information incomming in later this week. I just wanted to make sure I touched the topic on letting everyone know that we will have a follow up on the status.

 

... and that is why FC will continue to be thrashed.

"When it's ready it will be ready"?

You're right, that's not the kind of response people want to hear - because it's absolutely vague...

That's just another version of "it'll be ready soon", or "in the foreseeable future", or "eventually"

That's not a meaningful response. That's a given... Of course it'll *eventually* be ready. And Christmas will eventually get here. And people will eventually grow old and die.

In an earlier post in this thread, you even responded to someone else answering the question with "that's more or less correct", or something to that effect.

"more or less..."

Do you people *ever* speak in absolutes? Or is everything that happens in your offices aimlessly adrift in this wishy-washy grey area?

Do all your production schedules have "Eventually", "When it's ready", "Sooner or Later" as their official Due-By date? Do you even *have* production schedules?

I honestly have never seen this kind of complete disregard for any kind of meaningful scheduling.

Should Gaute, or anyone else, be given the task of writing a Post Mortem for AoC, just leave out "Not communicating with our players" as a Mistake. Because at this point, it's clearly not a mistake... FC simply doesn't take it seriously enough.

I guess you guys are going on the only thing you did learn from AO's development/launch:
"Well... we did less than well with AO in the start, too... but we turned it around. Eventually. So, just stay the course, folks. Don't give into the petty demands of the community to be more specific in our goals. They'll just have to be satisfied with getting their updates when ever we get around to implementing them."

If that's the game-plan, then it at least gives more context to the vague answers and complete lack of any meaningful time lines.

But you actually need to have good process to expose information like that.

The fact is most organizations have fairly bad process.

Since Funcom has very bad process and bad management as well and it is fairly standard in ALL businesses to obfuscate their poor process Funcom feels fine to do that.

By process I mean standard ways of doing various things that are put in places to ensure quality and communication.  That way everyone is on the same page and even people who do not have enough information to assure comprehensive quality (which is most employees) can be fairly sure that as long as they follow these standards things should be going well.

One of the hallmarks of good process is reviews and exposing the process it self.  Thus if you have good process it is a simple matter to show things to the public because you have already reviewed it anyway and you know its state and have no reason to feel bad about it.  And the same process that assure your quality is also something that tends to inspire confidence

The natural inclination of people is to be defensive when they are questioned, even innocent questions.  Most people and organizations usually do things in a way that is "good enough" or "what i can get away with".  This is not quality and its also extremely common for things to operate this way.  It is also why people generally like compliments.  Because in general people put good versus bad rather than quality.

So most people and organizations are generally trying to emphasize the good and deemphasize the bad rather than making true quality things.   They do not need real quality they simply need people to feel godo about whatever it is.  Once a person has decided to feel good about something they generally make excuses for it until they reach some threshold and then they hate that thing.  This is why MMORPGs often seem to appear to follow the same pattern people follow with a lover they either have silly love for things with obvious flaws or they are completely hating it and admit no good things in it.

The trick is that things with bad process essentially have to follow this Love/hate model because they will almost always be highly imperfect and unable convince people through more "reasonable" means.  The other thing though is that its highly unlikely you can have a very popular and sustained demand for something like this espeically it is very poor quality.  Becuase just like with people and attratction, only a fairly small set of people are heavily attracted to some set of features.  Its like when you are out with freinds and one say "Hey look at that hot girl" and you respond "With yeah she's really pretty but not my thing".   Its just all personal preference and what you react to.

Whereas a game like WoW even the haters are forced to admit that the UI was really good or various other aspects of WoW are quite tight.  And many people who have played WoW even though they do not think the game is awesome cannot get into other games because they are simply lacking and the comparison shows it.  Most people who do not have the strong reaction will err towards quality.  It just feels nice and solid and inspires confidence.  Without that Love/Hate dynamic people simply won't make the excuses and see no reason to do so.

And most people do not actually respond to things with the Love/Hate dynamic.  Frankly that dynamic is very tiring.  Most people don't want to go that far.   That may be what you currently see in most MMORPGs.  But that is because most of them have very bad process and its the only way they can get people to play their games.  This is also why there is such  HUGE difference in population between WoW and other games.  Much more than simple features can explain.

So basically AoC can never do what you wish they would.  Even if they wanted too.  Not until they get good process.  And they are sheisters and incompetent so that will never happen.  They don't even understand why its good frankly or beleive it does anything.

Seriously you cannot be open and honest UNLESS your shit don't stink much.  Everyones shit stinks, but some REALLY stinks.

Never listen you anyone who says they want complete honesty.  Especially if they are of the opposite sex.  Its just flat out wrong.  They may want more partial honesty in some things but they do not want real honesty.  It ruins the romance.  And if you do it they will stop feeling that way towards you.

Most MMORPGs work in a similar way.  Because that is the only way they can sell their poorly put together ways.  And as long as the facade is kept up the people who are inclined to prefer that game are fairly happy.  And frankly they will actively work towards not having critics destroy their partial illusion because they instinctively know they will be less happy if they approach the issue in a cold and evaluative way.  Some will even go so far as to actually state they know they are living an illusion and do not appreciate you trying to mess with it.

So this is a fait accompli.  AoC runs things a certain way.  It would be better for them to do things like WAR and MJ have done IF and I repeat IF they had good process.  However they have terrible process so they are tied to the LOVE/Hate dynamic.  They are therefore doomed to the deception and also doomed to be niche.  If they suddenly behaved like MJ has behaved it would actually be worse for them.  Because it would destroy the romance of the fanboys and would show everyone else that they have really really poor quality.

People say that honesty inspires confidence, but they are "lying".  They do not fully understand they are lying but if you do what they say they will feel even worse about it and then blame you for getting it wrong.  Honesty only inspired confidence when there is enough good stuff to be confident and about.  And many people simply want to be happy and actually would be perfectly fine with you hiding various things as long as you don't lie on the important parts.  IN fact often that is exactly what they want when they are involved in a relationship that on some level they know is not real quality but makes them happy.  Just don't kill the buzz and everything will be fine.

That is just the way it is.

But Funcom has also made a major mistake.  Because they have also lied about the major things, the things you can never lie about.  I mean you don't tell a women that a dress makes her fat even if it does.  But you also don't lie directly to their face about something or you get whacked and usually really hard, eventually.

Bah in all honesty I have to say. this game is not as bad as all of you say, in some truth yes it's incomplete, unfinished, and in paid-beta. But when you really get so into all the bitching for this game it actually makes it worse than for what it is. Yes I somehow can't find fun to play it, but in truth, it's just because I never see a positive, I'm a person who listens alot and it gets into my head. Now you guys made it seem worse for me. That's in truth, all you are doing. Messing with peoples heads. If you don't like it, you don't have to be rude, yesit could've been better. I am not a hater nor am I beleiver even a BIT, I play it simply to play it and that it all. This game does not need to give you money for your loss, yes the thieving was alittle bad, but still. $15 won't kill you unless it's your parents.

I know my post won't make you change your mind, I know people will think I'm a follower, which I already said I'm not. But if you look at this GAME as an actual GAME it's just a GAME that still has a chance to be a better GAME.

Now be more like a man/woman/adult. And ignore it. I'm sure if I look at 75% of you, most of you must be like eh, maybe 13-24, that's still old enough for you to like to show your boobies on the street, get arrested, and become stupid.

Stupid...that's what you guys are...STUPID!

Now also, may I add,

These guys can probably do more with their money than you guys can as a whole.

They have a chance to fix it.

They want more money.

It isn't the end for them.

They can do it.

They just need time.

Currently I am subbed, and not enjoying the game but I will play it till my subs done (With my free game card)

Originally posted by Dlore

Bah in all honesty I have to say. this game is not as bad as all of you say,

Well, its not "Anarchy Online at release bad" or "SWG NGE bad" but I would say its "Vanguard bad" and some of "PoTBS bad"

Whether what lvl of bad it is, it will still prevent players from subbing. Funcom needs to really work hard to keep this from sinking.

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Dlore

Bah in all honesty I have to say. this game is not as bad as all of you say,

 

Well, its not "Anarchy Online at release bad" or "SWG NGE bad" but I would say its "Vanguard bad" and some of "PoTBS bad"

Whether what lvl of bad it is, it will still prevent players from subbing. Funcom needs to really work hard to keep this from sinking.

Ya, but I may have chosen my words not as good as I should've when I say not as bad as everyone says. I mean that I don't compare the subs and all that like I'm the firggin' media trying to go to the station and get up a story, no. When I say not as bad, I mean that this game has potential. And they're only a bad company if they let it slip this far and let it die. IF they make it good. Say in a few months, add more content, WITHOUT the expansion, they can add that for something better. Then this game will be all the hyped...in a sense.