Originally posted by GMny

VideoGamer.com: Fans say a StarCraft MMO would be great, but they don't see your side of things do they?

 FP: The World of Warcraft team is 135 people. The StarCraft 2 team is 40 people.

 

Have you ever taken a look at the feature set of Darkfall??  It's much greater than what WoW is.. and yet somehow Aventurine is going to out do with 20-30 amateurs what it takes 135 professionals to accomplish backed by one of the biggest dev studios in the world. lol

c'mon now

I can't look at what isn't available to be viewed. 

Originally posted by Salvatoris

That might be the problem with Darkfall.  How long has this piece of vaporware been in production?  Most of a decade??  This game will either never come out, or already be obsolete and irrelevant when it does.  Really, it only takes a handful of dudes to efficiently "develop" a game that is never coming out anyway.

Well if you thought for 1 second about the actual size of the world, and how much content they are putting in for it to pack it, And the fact that between 2000 and 2008, Has had the BIGGEST boom in graphical improvement, so they had to upgrade there engine time and time again. Also, oh yeah the size? 12 hours from one coast to the other on the fastest mount! on foot it would be a little more than a day. And that is just 1 sector of the would as it is much more than a straight line, they had to fill all of this with as much quality content as possible, This is one hell of an achievement if they get it together along with the features promised. I am no fanboi "yet" but you gotta respect the guys behind this project, they went in with virtually 0 experience and they learned the ropes as they went, and now they can be considered experienced game developes with this 8 years. Also it is looking really good now, so it is a possibility it will see the light of beta this year. Seeing how they are currently in a private closed beta right now fyi.

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Salvatoris

That might be the problem with Darkfall.  How long has this piece of vaporware been in production?  Most of a decade??  This game will either never come out, or already be obsolete and irrelevant when it does.  Really, it only takes a handful of dudes to efficiently "develop" a game that is never coming out anyway.

 

Well if you thought for 1 second about the actual size of the world, and how much content they are putting in for it to pack it, And the fact that between 2000 and 2008, Has had the BIGGEST boom in graphical improvement, so they had to upgrade there engine time and time again. Also, oh yeah the size? 12 hours from one coast to the other on the fastest mount! on foot it would be a little more than a day. And that is just 1 sector of the would as it is much more than a straight line, they had to fill all of this with as much quality content as possible, This is one hell of an achievement if they get it together along with the features promised. I am no fanboi "yet" but you gotta respect the guys behind this project, they went in with virtually 0 experience and they learned the ropes as they went, and now they can be considered experienced game developes with this 8 years. Also it is looking really good now, so it is a possibility it will see the light of beta this year. Seeing how they are currently in a private closed beta right now fyi.

Until they come out with a game, I haven't seen them learn anything other than 40+ ways to spin, misdirect, and lie. And some old screenshots and old videos don't make it any closer to beta this year, in fact I'd say it puts them far from doing that. And who says they're in a private closed beta? Oh, that's right: Tasos. Real dependable source there.

Originally posted by WisebutCruel

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Salvatoris

That might be the problem with Darkfall.  How long has this piece of vaporware been in production?  Most of a decade??  This game will either never come out, or already be obsolete and irrelevant when it does.  Really, it only takes a handful of dudes to efficiently "develop" a game that is never coming out anyway.

 

Well if you thought for 1 second about the actual size of the world, and how much content they are putting in for it to pack it, And the fact that between 2000 and 2008, Has had the BIGGEST boom in graphical improvement, so they had to upgrade there engine time and time again. Also, oh yeah the size? 12 hours from one coast to the other on the fastest mount! on foot it would be a little more than a day. And that is just 1 sector of the would as it is much more than a straight line, they had to fill all of this with as much quality content as possible, This is one hell of an achievement if they get it together along with the features promised. I am no fanboi "yet" but you gotta respect the guys behind this project, they went in with virtually 0 experience and they learned the ropes as they went, and now they can be considered experienced game developes with this 8 years. Also it is looking really good now, so it is a possibility it will see the light of beta this year. Seeing how they are currently in a private closed beta right now fyi.

 

Until they come out with a game, I haven't seen them learn anything other than 40+ ways to spin, misdirect, and lie. And some old screenshots and old videos don't make it any closer to beta this year, in fact I'd say it puts them far from doing that. And who says they're in a private closed beta? Oh, that's right: Tasos. Real dependable source there.

more so than you man you guys are going to regret what your saying lol

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Salvatoris

That might be the problem with Darkfall.  How long has this piece of vaporware been in production?  Most of a decade??  This game will either never come out, or already be obsolete and irrelevant when it does.  Really, it only takes a handful of dudes to efficiently "develop" a game that is never coming out anyway.

 

5 years. Development for 5 years.  And, as backed up by research and Dark Age of Camelot as a shining example, 30-40 devs is the ideal number for a development studio. WoW has how many? And what have they done? Almost nothing, almost no change to the original game.

Dark Age of Camelot had one of the best engines, with so many little things (and big things) that games TODAY don't even have. I took DAoC for granted when I played it, and now with most MMOs today, there are so many features severaly lacking that I assumed was in every other MMO. They did so much more with DAoC than most MMO companies do with much larger teams.

Now try and tell me that Darkfall cannot possibly do what its promising. Its not doing too much new. Most of the things it has existed as features in 1998, just no one has done it again since then.

IF (and it's a big if) darkfall ever comes out, it will flounder and "fail".  The graphics suck, and while a lot of people will say graphics don't matter... those people appear to be in the minority.  There is no way a game that looks this bad will succeed in todays market, even if they manage to deliver every feature they have promised.
 

The graphics on Darkfall, for what the physics system can do, are pretty damn amazing.

http://www.darkfallonline.com/gallery/visuals/location_06

http://www.darkfallonline.com/gallery/visuals/17_G

Better than WoW's by a looong shot, and 9 million play WoW. And this game was never intended to be a big success, else it would be full of WoW features and the same simple mechanics that are always used. This game hopes to bring back GOOD MMOs, like UO, not WoW. Its a niche game and will do fine in those regards.

P.S.  I played DAOC, and I think your fond memories of the game are just letting you see the game through rose colored glassed.  Grinding 50 levels alone in instanced caves wearing gear that doesn't change in appearance for 35 levels isn't all it's cracked up to be. :/

You must have joined very late in the game, instances weren't added for many many years. One of the biggest mistakes made for Camelot was inclusion of a /level 20 command which basically killed every newbie zone, which killed newbs from joining the game. Before /level and instances there was plenty of grouping and there has always been great armor variety in the classic world. Regardless, that doesn't have anything to do with the engine.

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Salvatoris

That might be the problem with Darkfall.  How long has this piece of vaporware been in production?  Most of a decade??  This game will either never come out, or already be obsolete and irrelevant when it does.  Really, it only takes a handful of dudes to efficiently "develop" a game that is never coming out anyway.

 

Well if you thought for 1 second about the actual size of the world, and how much content they are putting in for it to pack it, And the fact that between 2000 and 2008, Has had the BIGGEST boom in graphical improvement, so they had to upgrade there engine time and time again. Also, oh yeah the size? 12 hours from one coast to the other on the fastest mount! on foot it would be a little more than a day. And that is just 1 sector of the would as it is much more than a straight line, they had to fill all of this with as much quality content as possible, This is one hell of an achievement if they get it together along with the features promised. I am no fanboi "yet" but you gotta respect the guys behind this project, they went in with virtually 0 experience and they learned the ropes as they went, and now they can be considered experienced game developes with this 8 years. Also it is looking really good now, so it is a possibility it will see the light of beta this year. Seeing how they are currently in a private closed beta right now fyi.

You have to be smoking some powerful shit to believe amateur programmers that "learned the ropes as they went" can produce a quality mmo of the magnitude they are describing.
 

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by WisebutCruel

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Salvatoris

That might be the problem with Darkfall.  How long has this piece of vaporware been in production?  Most of a decade??  This game will either never come out, or already be obsolete and irrelevant when it does.  Really, it only takes a handful of dudes to efficiently "develop" a game that is never coming out anyway.

 

Well if you thought for 1 second about the actual size of the world, and how much content they are putting in for it to pack it, And the fact that between 2000 and 2008, Has had the BIGGEST boom in graphical improvement, so they had to upgrade there engine time and time again. Also, oh yeah the size? 12 hours from one coast to the other on the fastest mount! on foot it would be a little more than a day. And that is just 1 sector of the would as it is much more than a straight line, they had to fill all of this with as much quality content as possible, This is one hell of an achievement if they get it together along with the features promised. I am no fanboi "yet" but you gotta respect the guys behind this project, they went in with virtually 0 experience and they learned the ropes as they went, and now they can be considered experienced game developes with this 8 years. Also it is looking really good now, so it is a possibility it will see the light of beta this year. Seeing how they are currently in a private closed beta right now fyi.

 

Until they come out with a game, I haven't seen them learn anything other than 40+ ways to spin, misdirect, and lie. And some old screenshots and old videos don't make it any closer to beta this year, in fact I'd say it puts them far from doing that. And who says they're in a private closed beta? Oh, that's right: Tasos. Real dependable source there.

 

more so than you man you guys are going to regret what your saying lol

More than likely the other way around, but why quibble over rationality?

It's really absurb to compare a privately funded indie gaming company to a mainstream monster like Blizzard Entertainment.

This games budget is supposeldy around 27mil, while god knows how much WoW costs, and makes at the moment.

I personally applaud any gaming company that tries to break a new ground in MMO's. Even if they fail, I still applaud them. I thiink DF is on the right direction. For those of you that are saying "OMG THIS GAME IS LIKE YEARS OVERDUE" there shouldn't BE a duedate, that's what you missing.

Haven't you all forgotten what happens when a game is rushed? Haven't you all forgotten what happens when EA or SOE gets it's hands on an MMO? This company is pretty much free to add whatever they want, and if that means taking longer then so be it.

Also, graphics. The graphics in a game such as this, I never really expected mind blowing graphics. We all know what happens when 60%+ of the resources goes to graphics. They are concentrating on the most important part, and it's possible most of the graphics we see are placeholders.

Graphics actually take longer than just about any other element in the game. And usually the programmers want to start right away, so some light/cheap models and textures are made to get the ball rolling. Then they add things later on. I see this as being a possibility later on.

Also modelers are freaking hard to keep, even if you pay them. So buying the best modelers in the world for an obscene amount of money probably wasn't on their agenda.

Am I a fanboy? For indie gaming companies, yes. Mainly because I'm working with one, and I know how hard and frustrating it is to even get an MMO started, let alone have a gameplay video.

Based on how far they've gotten, this isn't vaporware to me. If it was, it would've ended years ago.

The question is what they have been doing with their time. if they've been concentrating on features and mechanics then it's a step in the right direction. If it had been graphics, well then no.

Also, it should be noted that creating your own engine adds a lot to the time of development. Blizzardard actually kind of had half their engine AND art just with Warcraft III already being completed. The WoW engine is a definite derivative off of WC3.

Originally posted by nathanpinard

It's really absurb to compare a privately funded indie gaming company to a mainstream monster like Blizzard Entertainment.

[Snip an excellent post]

I just wanted to add that making a skillbased sandbox game isn't as resource demanding as a levelbased themepark game where you need to make sure the quests(content), pvp and gameplay are fun and balanced from first to last level.

WoW vs EVE would be a perfect example of this.

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by nathanpinard

It's really absurb to compare a privately funded indie gaming company to a mainstream monster like Blizzard Entertainment.

Why would it be absurd when the game they are trying to create is on the same level as WoW in regards to its touted features and content???  You're right though.. it is absurd.

Originally posted by Xris375

I just wanted to add that making a skillbased sandbox game isn't as resource demanding as a levelbased themepark game where you need to make sure the quests(content), pvp and gameplay are fun and balanced from first to last level.

 so I guess they lied when they said they have hundreds of dungeons , hundreds of quests , hundreds of skills and spells , craft anything in the game world?

And then you can throw in 10,000 players in one game world to top it all off.

Perhaps now you understand how their claims go beyond ridiculous. Because that IS exactly what they've claimed. And I am probably even missing some stuff.

Originally posted by GMny

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by nathanpinard

It's really absurb to compare a privately funded indie gaming company to a mainstream monster like Blizzard Entertainment.

Why would it be absurd when the game they are trying to create is on the same level as WoW in regards to its touted features and content???  You're right though.. it is absurd.

Originally posted by Xris375

I just wanted to add that making a skillbased sandbox game isn't as resource demanding as a levelbased themepark game where you need to make sure the quests(content), pvp and gameplay are fun and balanced from first to last level.

 so I guess they lied when they said they have hundreds of dungeons , hundreds of quests , hundreds of skills and spells , craft anything in the game world?

And then you can throw in 10,000 players in one game world to top it all off.

Perhaps now you understand how their claims go beyond ridiculous. Because that IS exactly what they've claimed. And I am probably even missing some stuff.

Yeah! But again, WoW have almost nothing of features or content. And what does a dungeon or quest mean for you? I can almost say that it wont be the same thing in Darkfall as in WoW.

Originally posted by daarco

Originally posted by GMny

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by nathanpinard

It's really absurb to compare a privately funded indie gaming company to a mainstream monster like Blizzard Entertainment.

Why would it be absurd when the game they are trying to create is on the same level as WoW in regards to its touted features and content???  You're right though.. it is absurd.

Originally posted by Xris375

I just wanted to add that making a skillbased sandbox game isn't as resource demanding as a levelbased themepark game where you need to make sure the quests(content), pvp and gameplay are fun and balanced from first to last level.

 so I guess they lied when they said they have hundreds of dungeons , hundreds of quests , hundreds of skills and spells , craft anything in the game world?

And then you can throw in 10,000 players in one game world to top it all off.

Perhaps now you understand how their claims go beyond ridiculous. Because that IS exactly what they've claimed. And I am probably even missing some stuff.

Yeah! But again, WoW have almost nothing of features or content.

lol right..  I don't think you even begin to grasp how much content WoW actually has.

It has the regular game + burning crusade... It has ridiculous amounts of content. Many many years worth.

Originally posted by GMny

Originally posted by Xris375

Why would it be absurd when the game they are trying to create is on the same level as WoW in regards to its touted features and content???  You're right though.. it is absurd.

IMO DF couldn't be more different that WoW. WOW is a levelbased themepark game. DF is featured to be a skllbased sandboxgame. Look up wow and compare it to EVE online and you will se the difference.

Originally posted by Xris375

I just wanted to add that making a skillbased sandbox game isn't as resource demanding as a levelbased themepark game where you need to make sure the quests(content), pvp and gameplay are fun and balanced from first to last level.

 so I guess they lied when they said they have hundreds of dungeons , hundreds of quests , hundreds of skills and spells , craft anything in the game world?

And then you can throw in 10,000 players in one game world to top it all off.

Perhaps now you understand how their claims go beyond ridiculous. Because that IS exactly what they've claimed. And I am probably even missing some stuff.

I don't know (and neither do you) but technical wise it's not impossible nor redicuolus to do. It will be some of the things I will put to the test in my free trial though.

do any of you sleep or what?

Originally posted by GMny

do any of you sleep or what?

I guess that is Troll for: "I just ran out of arguments and are just just to tired to agree" ?

And you should not be suprised that FANBOIS is an all-timezone guild.

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by GMny

do any of you sleep or what?

 

I guess that is Troll for: "I just ran out of arguments and are just just to tired to agree" ?

And you should not be suprised that FANBOIS is an all-timezone guild.

lol i didnt sleep much yesturday

Plus another example to look at is is WWII online.  Has navel combat,  air combat,  and has a lot of physics type stuff darkfall wishes too implement in a fantasy setting.  Also has the insanely large map,  and giant server cluster.  Basically has a feature list equal too if not on some aspects exceeding darkfall.  Yet they managed to be successful,  despite a few messes.  Was a not a large team that made that game either.

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by GMny

do any of you sleep or what?

 

I guess that is Troll for: "I just ran out of arguments and are just just to tired to agree" ?

And you should not be suprised that FANBOIS is an all-timezone guild.

I play this website european time.

We in the Darkfall fanbois clan is here arround the clock though. You never know when the evil trolls arrives.

So basicly its a way to get prepared for Darkfall where youll need to have someone watch the clancity 24/7. =)

Originally posted by gotha

Plus another example to look at is is WWII online.  Has navel combat,  air combat,  and has a lot of physics type stuff darkfall wishes too implement in a fantasy setting.  Also has the insanely large map,  and giant server cluster.  Basically has a feature list equal too if not on some aspects exceeding darkfall.  Yet they managed to be successful,  despite a few messes.  Was a not a large team that made that game either.

Exactly. Its a good example.

Originally posted by gotha

Plus another example to look at is is WWII online.  Has navel combat,  air combat,  and has a lot of physics type stuff darkfall wishes too implement in a fantasy setting.  Also has the insanely large map,  and giant server cluster.  Basically has a feature list equal too if not on some aspects exceeding darkfall.  Yet they managed to be successful,  despite a few messes.  Was a not a large team that made that game either.

No! its vaporware, no proof, the developers are liers, bad graphics and not enough "quests"!

Hmm, what does the trolls more whine about regarding those kind of MMOs??

/sarcasm

And WWII Online is a very good game to play : ) Very good exaple.