ive been looking for an mmo that has this type of gameplay and thought it coudln't exist!

i thought spellborn was the answer but dam those characters are ugly...

is it because of the heavy instances that this combat is possible? if it is why the hell would people complain if it means no more mindless point and click....

Originally posted by ricefarmer

ive been looking for an mmo that has this type of gameplay and thought it coudln't exist!

i thought spellborn was the answer but dam those characters are ugly...

is it because of the heavy instances that this combat is possible? if it is why the hell would people complain if it means no more mindless point and click....

 

I don't understand why people dislike this game so much.  I actually love it...it was my warm cuddly bed when WoW lots its taste...and continues to be so until Friday when I jump into WAR's PW.  Though, there are times I want to pull my hair out because caster classes tend to be very strategy oriented and if you solo an instance...there's calculating and time involved.  I've played a few of the armored classes who can solo, norm and hard an instance that my wiz finds difficult on solo and norm.

I'm personally not giving up on this game and am excited with some of the changes coming up with the new mod.  I'll keep my sub...even when WAR hits the game table.

It's because there's very little longevity to the actual gameplay. Once you've taken a toon to max level there's very little in the game to keep you there. Some people enjoy making more toons and seeing what variations the character development throws up, but generally, all there is to do after running a dungeon once is to try and set a new time record for completing the quest.

This game is powergamer central.

Yeah I agree with everyone here so far.  Both tp1 and zoobi are correct.  It is a good game but after awhile it can get a bit repetitve.  I dig D&D but personally I in my opinion don't like the world setting of Stormreach.  If it was in say Forgotten Realms or even Greyhawk I would of enjoy it more.  I believe Turbine has added more content, but perhaps other can confirm.

All-in-all a good game though.

Originally posted by ricefarmer

ive been looking for an mmo that has this type of gameplay and thought it coudln't exist!

is it because of the heavy instances that this combat is possible? if it is why the hell would people complain if it means no more mindless point and click....

The game play and dynamics in DDO are far superior to the majority of MMO's currently availble.  If Turbine had done a better job at launch DDO wouldn't have to make that difficult rebound 3 years later; exception to EVE Online.  Then there's the issue with Atari not advertising - using Atari is a sign of desperation in its self.

Another issue with DDO is it lacks true consumable stylized time sinks.  If there were a system to facilitate a guild's Castle/Keep/Fortress/etc that required constant maintenence and defense against maurding hordes the game would be a tremendous success.  Currently all there is to do is re-run the content until you've built your dream character, which is actually a lot of fun when you're gaming with freindly people - DDO has an awesome community!

The strength of DDO is the dynamic character building system and the content.  I have not experianced another game that can remotely compete with DDO's superbly directed experiance of running through the content.  If there are others that are remotely similar I wish someone would create a thread about it in this forum.  

Originally posted by mindspat

Originally posted by ricefarmer

ive been looking for an mmo that has this type of gameplay and thought it coudln't exist!

is it because of the heavy instances that this combat is possible? if it is why the hell would people complain if it means no more mindless point and click....

The game play and dynamics in DDO are far superior to the majority of MMO's currently availble.  If Turbine had done a better job at launch DDO wouldn't have to make that difficult rebound 3 years later; exception to EVE Online.  Then there's the issue with Atari not advertising - using Atari is a sign of desperation in its self.

Another issue with DDO is it lacks true consumable stylized time sinks.  If there were a system to facilitate a guild's Castle/Keep/Fortress/etc that required constant maintenence and defense against maurding hordes the game would be a tremendous success.  Currently all there is to do is re-run the content until you've built your dream character, which is actually a lot of fun when you're gaming with freindly people - DDO has an awesome community!

The strength of DDO is the dynamic character building system and the content.  I have not experianced another game that can remotely compete with DDO's superbly directed experiance of running through the content.  If there are others that are remotely similar I wish someone would create a thread about it in this forum.  

yes thats what i think is fun is castle seiges which ddo has none of...    they should have heavily instance WAR with all there great ideas and ddo combat gamplay it would have been a dam near perfect game

Zero Solo Game.    Plain and simple.

I know it seems like this would not be the reason but I beta'd this game and played for over a year.  The lack of solo content and EXTREME need for a good group for the medium to high lvl content drives people away.

It's why I left.  There are times you have to wait hours to find a group.  You cannot progress without doing x to y to z at certain points so getting that group is necessary. 

Having that kind of limitation is the reason this mmo has not exploded into a tremendous success.

The addition of solo dungeons was laughable.  It gives people something to do while they are waiting for a group at certain points.  There was not enough of them and they gave too little reward to help the game.

Have you played since the Adventure areas were added dsebutchr? You can pretty much level to cap just in them if you want to, though I think it would get a little boring after a while :).  Soloing is not easy in DDO but it is mainly a group game and there are plenty of things you can do between groups if you don't want to start your own.

I think part of why DDO isn't more popular is because it is different. People like the WOW style, thats why it is #1. The new features coming in Mod 8 Should help draw more new players in and bring back old ones by making character creation and learning the game much easier.

I understand your view.  This is not a solo based game.  The mod 8 preview showed the clear necessity to help the new player - which is why the new beginning desgin.    Also the design of the game is based on a cooperative group.   You either love it or hate it.   I have been playing since beta and luckly joined a guild that I can get grouped fairly easily. 

hey

I have been a player since beta . This is a great game.    If you do sign up don't get turned off by pug groups in the beginning.  Everybody goes through that pain.   Find a good guild with a few people you like and can regularly group with.   Just remember this game is desgined for groups.  

Originally posted by dsebutchr

Zero Solo Game.    Plain and simple.

I know it seems like this would not be the reason but I beta'd this game and played for over a year.  The lack of solo content and EXTREME need for a good group for the medium to high lvl content drives people away.

It's why I left.  There are times you have to wait hours to find a group.  You cannot progress without doing x to y to z at certain points so getting that group is necessary. 

Having that kind of limitation is the reason this mmo has not exploded into a tremendous success.

The addition of solo dungeons was laughable.  It gives people something to do while they are waiting for a group at certain points.  There was not enough of them and they gave too little reward to help the game.

It is Dungeons and Dragons. You can't solo normal DnD either.

Zoobi is right on the mark.  DDO is powergamer central, and nobody quits an MMO because "it doesn't have enough solo play."  Forget that it's D&D, which actually does allow some limited solo (1 player, 1 DM) experiences (but is largely geared for 4-6 person groups), it's supposed to be a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game.  That means you play with or against other players as a means of advancement, period.  There is enough actual MMO-interested gamers for an MMO to ignore the people who simply want to use the game as a constantly updated single player game.

As was noted before, the problem with most people complaining about "solo" options is actually caused by the existing playerbase.  Most of the existing players are entirely into metagaming, and about 50-70% of those are rude, arrogant, and condescending.  Right now on their forums a discussion is raging over whether the feat Diehard (prevents an incapacitated player from dying) should have been included in the New Player Experience template for a human sorceror.  While I actually agree with the arguments against using the feat, it's a completely trivial concern - the new player can simply override the default if he desires.  The problem for them, however, is that putting the feat in a template is some sort of affront to the metagamer way of thinking.  (They really shouldn't worry - the DDO devs are on their side.)

DDO would be a pretty awesome game if it concentrated on the MMO part of what it was meant to be.  Right now it is just a metagamer-oriented shadow of a Diablo-like hack-n-slash.

My main problem wasn't the solo content - you could make a cleric/theif and solo most dungeons.

My problem was the economy - too much magic items.  When you get to level 3 and join your first group, you wind up playing with 4 guys who have a bunch of over powered items for thier level who race through the dungeons like their pants are on fire.

If they scaled back the magic item drop rate (and got rid of most of those elemental weapons except at the 10+ level) I think the game would be much more fun.  But the truth is, at most points you can make a group with 1 cleric, 1 rogue and 4 fighters who will just blast through all the content, because their DPS is too high due to bad itemization.

Originally posted by dsebutchr

Zero Solo Game.    Plain and simple.

I know it seems like this would not be the reason but I beta'd this game and played for over a year.  The lack of solo content and EXTREME need for a good group for the medium to high lvl content drives people away.

It's why I left.  There are times you have to wait hours to find a group.  You cannot progress without doing x to y to z at certain points so getting that group is necessary. 

Having that kind of limitation is the reason this mmo has not exploded into a tremendous success.

The addition of solo dungeons was laughable.  It gives people something to do while they are waiting for a group at certain points.  There was not enough of them and they gave too little reward to help the game.

This is why I have quit DDO twice.  The combat makes me come back the serious restrictions on what I can do is what drives me away.

And unlike some DDO players I love The Pit.

Originally posted by grimfall

My main problem wasn't the solo content - you could make a cleric/theif and solo most dungeons.

My problem was the economy - too much magic items.  When you get to level 3 and join your first group, you wind up playing with 4 guys who have a bunch of over powered items for thier level who race through the dungeons like their pants are on fire.

If they scaled back the magic item drop rate (and got rid of most of those elemental weapons except at the 10+ level) I think the game would be much more fun.  But the truth is, at most points you can make a group with 1 cleric, 1 rogue and 4 fighters who will just blast through all the content, because their DPS is too high due to bad itemization.

Yes I would list DDO's problems thusly:

-crappy solo support.  Its possible to solo, but can be very painful.

-The funky equipment handling.  Harbor quests drop utter crap yet people are constantly running around with +1 or +2 elemental damage weapons and having +2 or +3 tomes with 32 point builds

-The creatures can be completely out of whack.  One level 1 dungeons might have easy quickfoot thief guys the other has some crazy smugglers with double the HP.  Ogres one hit crit kill people.

Not all of this is Turbines fault I think a lot of it is just D&D stuff.  But the game is balanced all whacky for an MMO.

In some ways that is kind of good because its not the same old same old.  But there really are just too many funky and extreme things.  In a way DDO loses a lot of its variety because everything is taken to the extreme and played at margins.

All you see is instant kills or fire wall.  Things get crazy HP because of focus fire.  IMO DDO really needs a good little bit of tweaking.  A lot of stuff is garbled in the translation from PnP to social computer game.

I was having a blast until I hit the point where my character was unable to solo like he was at the beginning. I enjoy grouping and solo play, but if I'm forced to group, I'm out.

To the person that said that "nobody quits" do to lack of solo play, you might be interested to know that the majority of people that play MMOs nowadays prefer to solo....sad as that may be.

Originally posted by remyburke

I was having a blast until I hit the point where my character was unable to solo like he was at the beginning. I enjoy grouping and solo play, but if I'm forced to group, I'm out.

To the person that said that "nobody quits" do to lack of solo play, you might be interested to know that the majority of people that play MMOs nowadays prefer to solo....sad as that may be.

First of all, DDO does not lack solo play.  As with every MMO, you can always run lower level content as a higher level character.  In DDO, you can even get experience that way - and continue that trend all the way to cap, especially with the outdoor adventure areas. DDO just makes it highly desirable to run quests at level, as otherwise you are working much harder for much less reward.  It's a gameplay mechanic that encourages grouping and showing good group behavior, and it is about to disappear with the New Player Experience.

So, if you really believe what you claim you should give DDO another try in October.  I'll wager that even if soloing is more appealing to you then, you'll want to quit again at or before level 9.

I suspect, however, that you are mostly deluding yourself.  You probably just got to the point where you wanted to keep advancing at the same pace, joined a group, found it to be a horrible experience, decided to try soloing the same content, that didn't work, and poof - you were gone.  The problem is really that grouping is mostly horrible in DDO regardless of their encouraging it or not, due to low subscriber numbers, metagaming, and people who have been playing for 2 years wanting to run through everything without giving new players any slack or information.

Furthermore, I wasn't ever implying that people never want to solo in an MMO.  I actually solo a lot, and when I feel like it there is always something to do:  solo lower level content, peruse the auction house, explore and take pictures, manage the inventory of my characters, etc.  Nobody (and I mean nobody worth obsessing over) quits an MMO because they can't advance as fast or as easily soloing as in a group.  Most of the time their complaints are really about the grouping, as I explained before.

And lastly, no, the majority of MMO players do not enjoy soloing the most.  If you believe otherwise, you should show your proof.

I'm doing the 10 day right now and I do agree that the combat is pretty nice so far.

Here is what I am thinking however to answer your question "why isn't it more popular?"

• Lacks a true persistent world. Feels claustrophobic at times.
• Lacks any real alternate gameplay aside from running the dungeons that I can see so far. Not nearly social enough up front. You power through the beginning soloing fairly quick and that builds a false expectation.
• Pretty linear also. If you want an alt, you are redoing all the same content again. Replayability seems fairly limited. I started an alt and dropped it for that reason alone.
• Ability to solo appears to drop away and bothers a lot of folks.
• Scope is very limited. No dynamic world elements at all. (which leads back to point one, no real world)

My personal peeves, why Ebberon and why only the city as far as scope?. Personally I can't figure for the life of me why the didn't use Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance. At the very least they should have a continental / country map system like GW to at least give the illusion of a full world. (I don't see one, correct me if I'm wrong)

Feels like a similar version of GW but with a fee. Sorry, I know its probably an old hat comparison but the similarities are too great to ignore. GW actually feels less confining then this game.

Maybe in the future something more loyal to the DDO name will arrive but in the meantime, this game does have some really good dungeons and with a batch of friends can be a lot of fun, I can see that.

And my last pet peeve, the art...whats up with that? It's not like D&D doesn't have decades of art to draw on, what happened with this Eberron setting?

Originally posted by Raithe-Nor

Originally posted by remyburke

I was having a blast until I hit the point where my character was unable to solo like he was at the beginning. I enjoy grouping and solo play, but if I'm forced to group, I'm out.

To the person that said that "nobody quits" do to lack of solo play, you might be interested to know that the majority of people that play MMOs nowadays prefer to solo....sad as that may be.

 

First of all, DDO does not lack solo play.  As with every MMO, you can always run lower level content as a higher level character.  In DDO, you can even get experience that way - and continue that trend all the way to cap, especially with the outdoor adventure areas. DDO just makes it highly desirable to run quests at level, as otherwise you are working much harder for much less reward.  It's a gameplay mechanic that encourages grouping and showing good group behavior, and it is about to disappear with the New Player Experience.

So, if you really believe what you claim you should give DDO another try in October.  I'll wager that even if soloing is more appealing to you then, you'll want to quit again at or before level 9.

I suspect, however, that you are mostly deluding yourself.  You probably just got to the point where you wanted to keep advancing at the same pace, joined a group, found it to be a horrible experience, decided to try soloing the same content, that didn't work, and poof - you were gone.  The problem is really that grouping is mostly horrible in DDO regardless of their encouraging it or not, due to low subscriber numbers, metagaming, and people who have been playing for 2 years wanting to run through everything without giving new players any slack or information.

Furthermore, I wasn't ever implying that people never want to solo in an MMO.  I actually solo a lot, and when I feel like it there is always something to do:  solo lower level content, peruse the auction house, explore and take pictures, manage the inventory of my characters, etc.  Nobody (and I mean nobody worth obsessing over) quits an MMO because they can't advance as fast or as easily soloing as in a group.  Most of the time their complaints are really about the grouping, as I explained before.

And lastly, no, the majority of MMO players do not enjoy soloing the most.  If you believe otherwise, you should show your proof.

I'm sorry but you are just flat out wrong many people quit solely because they can't make significant gains with solo content.  When you feel like being solo and then go do something, you want it to be productive.  It doesn't have to be exactly as productive as grouping but if its way below level or takes twice as long people just feel restricted and really see no reason to have their desires balked in such a way.

I have quit more than one MMO for this reason.  I know that other people have as well.   Is it a majority?  I have no idea but there are certainly a number of people for whom this is true.

Also DDO requires serious twinking or powergaming or consumables to solo to anything anywhere even close to an acceptable progression rate past level 5 or so.  It is does not have considerable solo content.  In fact the vast majority of content is balanced for 4 man groups and requires extraordinary means to solo.  Just because its possible to do something in a certain way does not make it "solo content".

Originally posted by Torak

I'm doing the 10 day right now and I do agree that the combat is pretty nice so far.

Here is what I am thinking however to answer your question "why isn't it more popular?"

• Lacks a true persistent world. Feels claustrophobic at times.
• Lacks any real alternate gameplay aside from running the dungeons that I can see so far. Not nearly social enough up front. You power through the beginning soloing fairly quick and that builds a false expectation.
• Pretty linear also. If you want an alt, you are redoing all the same content again. Replayability seems fairly limited. I started an alt and dropped it for that reason alone.
• Ability to solo appears to drop away and bothers a lot of folks.
• Scope is very limited. No dynamic world elements at all. (which leads back to point one, no real world)

My personal peeves, why Ebberon and why only the city as far as scope?. Personally I can't figure for the life of me why the didn't use Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance. At the very least they should have a continental / country map system like GW to at least give the illusion of a full world. (I don't see one, correct me if I'm wrong)

Feels like a similar version of GW but with a fee. Sorry, I know its probably an old hat comparison but the similarities are too great to ignore. GW actually feels less confining then this game.

Maybe in the future something more loyal to the DDO name will arrive but in the meantime, this game does have some really good dungeons and with a batch of friends can be a lot of fun, I can see that.

And my last pet peeve, the art...whats up with that? It's not like D&D doesn't have decades of art to draw on, what happened with this Eberron setting?

 

 

One of the things about DDO is even though it probably has as much "square footage" as any MMO out there when you total up everything.  It still appears "small" to most people because its all in instances, except for explorer areas I suppose.

For the most part his post is a pretty accurate summary of most people's problems with the game.  DDO really is just wonky in a number of ways.  It has its good points but it has a lot of awkward points as well.  I don't know that I would call them truly bad but definitely wonky.  Either visually or oragnizational or balance.

Still has some of the coolest combat in the genre and in some ways some of that wonkiness is certainly because of that.  Things that break ground especially break ground from a interface standpoint tend to have problems like that.  But you can also pull of some just plain cool stuff that has no real analogue outside of a First Person Shooter.