Originally posted by MortisRex

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

Darkfall is kinda like God. The believers will fight to the death to defend the idea that it exists. The haters say there is no proof and therefore it doesn't exist. Neither side can prove the other wrong...

lol

 

One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".

negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:

"X is true because there is no proof that X is false."

It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:

"A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

dude........dude, dude.....i do enjoy reading discussions, i do enjoy reading clever as well as dumb comments or points of  view, but plz: Do not quote something (or better said, just a part of it) you do not seem to comprehend at all, lemme help you out:

using the system of NEGATIVE PROOF is an naturally logical as long as observations do NOT show obvious mechanisms or empirical data underlining the opposite......so in our case (concerning the release of the game darkfall), observations show at least obvious mechanisms that (empirically, which in our case means through prropability and statistics) put the ball very much into the vaporware court. coz: There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.

statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....

For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of  vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.

lets say they have a complete world, grafics, characters, even items and so on, if the programmers and designers were just close of being that mad and really try to do that stuff they promised the game will have, than i can tell you that: They will be debugging there code till santorini erupts again.....

dont get me wrong, it is possible.....with the right ressources and time..........dont think aventurine does have that, well....time at least they seem to have

At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD : To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything,  those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years

so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...

Originally posted by Agamemmnon

Originally posted by MortisRex

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

Darkfall is kinda like God. The believers will fight to the death to defend the idea that it exists. The haters say there is no proof and therefore it doesn't exist. Neither side can prove the other wrong...

lol

 

One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".

negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:

"X is true because there is no proof that X is false."

It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:

"A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

 

dude........dude, dude.....i do enjoy reading discussions, i do enjoy reading clever as well as dumb comments or points of  view, but plz: Do not quote something (or better said, just a part of it) you do not seem to comprehend at all, lemme help you out:

using the system of NEGATIVE PROOF is an naturally logical as long as observations do NOT show obvious mechanisms or empirical data underlining the opposite......so in our case (concerning the release of the game darkfall), observations show at least obvious mechanisms that (empirically, which in our case means through prropability and statistics) put the ball very much into the vaporware court. coz: There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.

statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....

For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of  vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.

lets say they have a complete world, grafics, characters, even items and so on, if the programmers and designers were just close of being that mad and really try to do that stuff they promised the game will have, than i can tell you that: They will be debugging there code till santorini erupts again.....

dont get me wrong, it is possible.....with the right ressources and time..........dont think aventurine does have that, well....time at least they seem to have

At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD : To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything,  those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years

so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...

Damn!

Its been a while since a saw a so well written post here on the DF forum! Nice done. Hope this sets the standard for the nearert weeks....atleast.

Originally posted by Agamemmnon

Originally posted by MortisRex

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

Darkfall is kinda like God. The believers will fight to the death to defend the idea that it exists. The haters say there is no proof and therefore it doesn't exist. Neither side can prove the other wrong...

lol

 

One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".

negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:

"X is true because there is no proof that X is false."

It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:

"A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

 

There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.

Aragon100: Hmm didnt know they had financial problems? Can you direct me to some info or maybe some nice looking quotes where we all can share youre tremendous insight in the company called Aventurine?=)

statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....

Aragon100: For Aventurine to fit into any statistic comparasion with other vaporware games you have to back your statement of finacial difficulties with some real info on the matter. So far i havent seen anything of it. And you know what, you wont be able to deliver any.=)

So where is that info of yours on financial problems for Aventurine? Or did you just take it out of thin air? If so its not backing your credibility, dude.=)

For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of  vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.

Aragon100: Its a wellknown priority from Aventurine not to put funds or developer time into PR. They make the game as good as they can and let it speak on its strength. As Tasos so well put it in one of his Dev Journals "Giant budgets and giant advertising campaigns demand giant paydays". So the order of priority is wellknown and wether you approve with it or not isnt what make Tasos loose his sleep during nights.=) Personally i think Aventurine made the right choice since theyre a smaller game developing company and there money should go to developing, not making up hype by costly advertising campaigns. If the game is good it will have players.

Just look what happens when you do it the other way arround like Funcom did. Huge bankloans to pay back and soon no money coming their way when all the players left the sinking ship called Age of Conan.=) Its called bankrupcy and suit them just right.

At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD :

Aragon100: ROFL. You think anything youre making up here, yes making up,  will let anyone down?=)  If so you really take yourself way to seriously. Would be alot more interesting with some facts backing your wall of text that really says very little when you dissecate it.=)

To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything,  those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years

Aragon100: Its way, way cheaper to live in Greece then in Norway. Salaries is way lower. Rent is lower. Didnt you know that Norway is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in?=) So it was a really smart move to move to Greece. Way cheaper to develop a game in Greece. And dont forget the nice food.=)

http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm

so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...

Aragon100: So to sum it up: no one can really say if Darkfall will be released or not, but at least to me it is most likely that they will be able to pull it through.....lets see....

Originally posted by daarco

Originally posted by Agamemmnon

Originally posted by MortisRex

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

Darkfall is kinda like God. The believers will fight to the death to defend the idea that it exists. The haters say there is no proof and therefore it doesn't exist. Neither side can prove the other wrong...

lol

 

One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".

negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:

"X is true because there is no proof that X is false."

It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:

"A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

 

dude........dude, dude.....i do enjoy reading discussions, i do enjoy reading clever as well as dumb comments or points of  view, but plz: Do not quote something (or better said, just a part of it) you do not seem to comprehend at all, lemme help you out:

using the system of NEGATIVE PROOF is an naturally logical as long as observations do NOT show obvious mechanisms or empirical data underlining the opposite......so in our case (concerning the release of the game darkfall), observations show at least obvious mechanisms that (empirically, which in our case means through prropability and statistics) put the ball very much into the vaporware court. coz: There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.

statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....

For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of  vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.

lets say they have a complete world, grafics, characters, even items and so on, if the programmers and designers were just close of being that mad and really try to do that stuff they promised the game will have, than i can tell you that: They will be debugging there code till santorini erupts again.....

dont get me wrong, it is possible.....with the right ressources and time..........dont think aventurine does have that, well....time at least they seem to have

At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD : To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything,  those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years

so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...

 

 

Damn!

Its been a while since a saw a so well written post here on the DF forum! Nice done. Hope this sets the standard for the nearert weeks....atleast.

Really? What did i miss?=)

Too me it was a wall of text saying nothing. Just about all he said was inaccurate too. =)

@aragon100

dont get upset, i wont comment on everthing u replied to my statement, but let me tell u this:

why do u want me to proof aventurine have financial problems? i never said that directly.......keep ur triggerfinger in ur holster and reread......all i did was stating that this behaviour is typical, (not only for game developers) if they have financial problems....so all i do is implying that there  is a high propability  that they do have problems like that....so there is nothing to proof for me there

one thing i dont want to let slip through unnoticed is ur statement concerning norway and greece: norway is expensive, but let me clear that out: developers come from norway, there is the whole world to choose,now ill give u sth to think about: between norway and greece is denmark, netherlands, belgium, germany, Poland!, austria, switzerland, Kroatia, Macedonia and so on...........of all this countrys mentioned, i can tell u something for sure: regarding rent and cost for living i KNOW greece is more expensive than germany, Poland, Macedonia..in all aspects,,,i ASSUME its more expensive than Croatia, others are indeed more expensive or i dont really know to make assumptions.....so u see? cannot have been the money......

edit: and btw...u do speak of FACTS and FACTS and AGAIN FACTS alot of times here.....why do u want me to give u so many facts? dont u get enough FACTS from aventurine regarding Darkfall?

u seam to play it hard and loose with the word FACTS.

Originally posted by Agamemmnon

@aragon100

dont get upset, i wont comment on everthing u replied to my statement, but let me tell u this:

why do u want me to proof aventurine have financial problems? i never said that directly.......keep ur triggerfinger in ur holster and reread......all i did was stating that this behaviour is typical, (not only for game developers) if they have financial problems....so all i do is implying that there  is a high propability  that they do have problems like that....so there is nothing to proof for me there

 True you did make up a nice little story  that Aventurine "most likely" must have financial difficulties. =) Problem with that story is that neither you nor me have any info regarding  the accuracy behind your little story. So infact they could have some backup from Sheik Mohammed from Quatar that for some reason really loves sandbox MMORPG games. Its as a accurate story as yours. =)

one thing i dont want to let slip through unnoticed is ur statement concerning norway and greece: norway is expensive, but let me clear that out: developers come from norway, there is the whole world to choose,now ill give u sth to think about: between norway and greece is denmark, netherlands, belgium, germany, Poland!, austria, switzerland, Kroatia, Macedonia and so on...........of all this countrys mentioned, i can tell u something for sure: regarding rent and cost for living i KNOW greece is more expensive than germany, Poland, Macedonia..in all aspects,,,i ASSUME its more expensive than Croatia, others are indeed more expensive or i dont really know to make assumptions.....so u see? cannot have been the money......

Thing is they didnt get any offer from those other countries you mention above. So i guess the Greece offer that was something from the real world was the best of them.=)

I give you this again.

http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm

Here you have a nice link of how cheap Athens was to live in late 2002 when Razorwax moved to Greece and merged with Aventurine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities
 

Originally posted by Aragon100

 So i guess the Greece offer that was something from the real world was the best of them.=)

 

They didn't get any "offer" from Greece. Aventurine IS Razorwax.

They lied straight through their teeth years ago about getting a "publisher" in Greece.

Aventurine was formed in 2002..  it was a start-up company that Razowax STARTED UP and moved off to Greece because they were too broke to develop in Norway... 

Fast forward 4 years later and Razorwax files for bankruptcy... I wonder where that $500,000 investment they got in Norway went too?????

Tasos's pocket?

Originally posted by GMny

Originally posted by Aragon100

 So i guess the Greece offer that was something from the real world was the best of them.=)

 

They didn't get any "offer" from Greece. Aventurine IS Razorwax.

They lied straight through their teeth years ago about getting a "publisher" in Greece.

Aventurine was formed in 2002..  it was a start-up company that Razowax STARTED UP and moved off to Greece because they were too broke to develop in Norway... 

Fast forward 4 years later and Razorwax files for bankruptcy... I wonder where that $500,000 investment they got in Norway went too?????

Tasos's pocket?

 

 ROFL- its so easy to proof you wrong that i do it with one hand behind my back this time. =)

http://company.mmosite.com/aventurine/index.shtml 

And here is the statement that informs us they did close a deal with the already existing company called Aventurine based in Greece. So Razorwax didnt create Aventurine. =)

http://www.anvilsociety.com/wax/news2.htm

LOL - Aventurine SA was created October 2002 in Greece. As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece.

You must read up on the history abit more dude.  If your knowledge of the game is this bad what else did you misunderstand? That the game will rock maybe? =)

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surly-s-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurin

[QUOTE] As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece. Trond Heier had a few choice words to say of the exchange, wishing Razorwax well in their endeavors, and lamenting only slightly the 3million kronor loss he accrued from the investment in an interview with VG.no[10]. Today, beyond sticking it to Microsoft[11], it appears Trond Heier's financial ties to Darkfall are severed. Although they were quite apprehensive about the whole thing at the start, it seems as though the 60 million kronor investment in Intermedia Invest paid off, at least for us Darkfall fans, and the excitement and tenacity of Simon Yuen really makes him out to be one heck of a cool guy[12,1]. [/QUOTE]

Anyone referring to this as 'Darkfail' yet?

Ahh .. sorry I couldn't resist. *hangs head in shame.*

Originally posted by Agamemmnon

@aragon100

dont get upset, i wont comment on everthing u replied to my statement, but let me tell u this:

why do u want me to proof aventurine have financial problems? i never said that directly.......keep ur triggerfinger in ur holster and reread......all i did was stating that this behaviour is typical, (not only for game developers) if they have financial problems....so all i do is implying that there  is a high propability  that they do have problems like that....so there is nothing to proof for me there

 

one thing i dont want to let slip through unnoticed is ur statement concerning norway and greece: norway is expensive, but let me clear that out: developers come from norway, there is the whole world to choose,now ill give u sth to think about: between norway and greece is denmark, netherlands, belgium, germany, Poland!, austria, switzerland, Kroatia, Macedonia and so on...........of all this countrys mentioned, i can tell u something for sure: regarding rent and cost for living i KNOW greece is more expensive than germany, Poland, Macedonia..in all aspects,,,i ASSUME its more expensive than Croatia, others are indeed more expensive or i dont really know to make assumptions.....so u see? cannot have been the money......

 

edit: and btw...u do speak of FACTS and FACTS and AGAIN FACTS alot of times here.....why do u want me to give u so many facts? dont u get enough FACTS from aventurine regarding Darkfall?

u seam to play it hard and loose with the word FACTS.

Aragorn is happy to a point with the info provided by the developers, you obviously aren't or are just trolling.

Your previous post was interesting but added no value to the debate, not saying something directly in your own words is owning up to the FACT  that you inferred exactly that... now thats a FACT.

They have a dream, the development of DF is being done on a tight budget nothing wrong with that. The game will just take longer to deliver, well some may say it is a problem but the MMO genre hasn't really moved forward gameplay wise since UO from a sandbox perspective. IT has got prettier but not much more what DF offers will provide a valid playing mechanism for years from now so in that respect the game will not be outdated as it will have real gameplay elements..

So wheres the rush, the DF developers are skilled individuals have enough funding to keep the development ticking over. Everything Tasos says is with respect to a development cycles, and as anyone knows complex ones can go round in circles and change scope at a minutes notice. In these cases you are normally accountable to whoever provides the budget ... so backers and the guys themselves.

So who are they accountable to...no one here thats for sure. Untill the game releases and there are paying customers DF are doing it right. They give info as per the development cycle out of courtesy not out of any binding need people seem to ignore this and just fire out demands.

I think a lot of time and effort has been put into DF and in that respect it exists no doubt about that, If it releases as a fully functioning MMO thats up for debate.

But Darkfall as an entity does exist and is being developed by Aventurine.

Originally posted by Isane

They have a dream

Sorry to break the news to you but MMORPG's are not built on "dreams".  They are built on huge financial backing and loads of talent.

And based on the info to date - Aventurine has neither.

Originally posted by GMny

Originally posted by Isane

They have a dream

 

Sorry to break the news to you but MMORPG's are not built on "dreams".  They are built on huge financial backing and loads of talent.

And based on the info to date - Aventurine has neither.

This is your way to share "news" with us. =)

And i quote -

[QUOTE] GMny : They didn't get any "offer" from Greece. Aventurine IS Razorwax.

They lied straight through their teeth years ago about getting a "publisher" in Greece.

Aventurine was formed in 2002..  it was a start-up company that Razowax STARTED UP and moved off to Greece because they were too broke to develop in Norway... 

Fast forward 4 years later and Razorwax files for bankruptcy... I wonder where that $500,000 investment they got in Norway went too?????

Tasos's pocket? [/QUOTE]

This was my answer to you and still i havent got any respond from you, wonder why? Were you wrong or?

[QUOTE] Aragon100 : ROFL- its so easy to proof you wrong that i do it with one hand behind my back this time. =)

http://company.mmosite.com/aventurine/index.shtml 

And here is the statement that informs us they did close a deal with the already existing company called Aventurine based in Greece. So Razorwax didnt create Aventurine. =)

http://www.anvilsociety.com/wax/news2.htm

LOL - Aventurine SA was created October 2002 in Greece. As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece.

You must read up on the history abit more dude.  If your knowledge of the game is this bad what else did you misunderstand? That the game will rock maybe? =)

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surly-s-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurin

[QUOTE] As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece. Trond Heier had a few choice words to say of the exchange, wishing Razorwax well in their endeavors, and lamenting only slightly the 3million kronor loss he accrued from the investment in an interview with VG.no[10]. Today, beyond sticking it to Microsoft[11], it appears Trond Heier's financial ties to Darkfall are severed. Although they were quite apprehensive about the whole thing at the start, it seems as though the 60 million kronor investment in Intermedia Invest paid off, at least for us Darkfall fans, and the excitement and tenacity of Simon Yuen really makes him out to be one heck of a cool guy[12,1]. [/QUOTE]

Considering you seem to have very poor knowledge on the game Darkfall i take your knowledge on the game and ability to draw conclusions on the game Darkfall very lightly.

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Originally posted by Aragon100

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Originally posted by gamerman98

 

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Originally posted by CreepingDoom

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Originally posted by downtoearth
 
 I wouldnt say that brannoc in irc was just saying the vid will be out this month might not be on a friday tho.
and he also saying its good enough for people to shit there pants even maybe twice.
lol man i feel sorry for you guys.
i bet we willa t least se epublic ttesting start /clan beta

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I feel sorry for people that take the word of a company that repeatedly lies to its fans.
But thats just me.
Keep on feeling sorry, because when nothing happens again this year, you'll still blindly follow the game as if it was the next messiah into the new year and beyond. Its just the way truely foolish people are, no fault of your own I'm sure.

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amen!!!! Ya I said the same thing kinda back in 04...and look at us today...its amusing how these guys keep blindly following DF like its going to be the next revolution in games....maybe back in 01...but not now lol. Keep it up guys...ill just place my lawn chair on the sidelines and watch the fireworks....i should have enough popcorn to last me till then :P
 

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Darkfall of today have been in development from midsummer 2003. Its not that a long time for a game of Darkfalls caliber. 5 years is a quite common development time for a large MMORPG. And you have to remember that Aventurine isnt as a big company as Blizzard. So id say they developed Darkfall quite fast.
What you have to do is to read up on the game my friend cause you lack alot of info on it.

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God..either you never passed the reading lessons in school when you were a kid, or hooked on phonics was a complete scam, but if you didnt really noticed i said "back in 04" which even though that was when i joined MMORPG.com, i have been a extensive follower of Darkfall since...so basically i have the same "info" as you do....and keep in mind one thing...I was a HUGE supporter of the game before i even joined this site. God man....you need to read up more on the game yourself before you judge someone like me "friend"

OH!! and this whole..."i know more than u do" crap wont get anyone here very far....for all that has been following the game since the beginning (like myself) and has been following the forums as much as i have (i do have an account there..just under a diff name) then those people will know about as much info as i do and any one else.

Originally posted by GMny

Originally posted by Isane

They have a dream

 

Sorry to break the news to you but MMORPG's are not built on "dreams".  They are built on huge financial backing and loads of talent.

And based on the info to date - Aventurine has neither.

You haven't got a clue , and please don't quote out of context it just makes you look a bigger fool than you already are. Their dream = design philosophy , approach , vision ... of which I see no major evidence they have deviated from.

I don't need you to tell me how the development cycle for an MMO works , keep taking things out of context but it will not work on me at some point you may add something constructive but until you do you will just keep on failing. (TROLL on)

Originally posted by gamerman98

 

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Originally posted by Aragon100

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Originally posted by gamerman98

 

 
 

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Originally posted by CreepingDoom

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Originally posted by downtoearth
 
 I wouldnt say that brannoc in irc was just saying the vid will be out this month might not be on a friday tho.
and he also saying its good enough for people to shit there pants even maybe twice.
lol man i feel sorry for you guys.
i bet we willa t least se epublic ttesting start /clan beta

 

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I feel sorry for people that take the word of a company that repeatedly lies to its fans.
But thats just me.
Keep on feeling sorry, because when nothing happens again this year, you'll still blindly follow the game as if it was the next messiah into the new year and beyond. Its just the way truely foolish people are, no fault of your own I'm sure.

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amen!!!! Ya I said the same thing kinda back in 04...and look at us today...its amusing how these guys keep blindly following DF like its going to be the next revolution in games....maybe back in 01...but not now lol. Keep it up guys...ill just place my lawn chair on the sidelines and watch the fireworks....i should have enough popcorn to last me till then :P
 

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Darkfall of today have been in development from midsummer 2003. Its not that a long time for a game of Darkfalls caliber. 5 years is a quite common development time for a large MMORPG. And you have to remember that Aventurine isnt as a big company as Blizzard. So id say they developed Darkfall quite fast.
What you have to do is to read up on the game my friend cause you lack alot of info on it.

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God..either you never passed the reading lessons in school when you were a kid, or hooked on phonics was a complete scam, but if you didnt really noticed i said "back in 04" which even though that was when i joined MMORPG.com, i have been a extensive follower of Darkfall since...so basically i have the same "info" as you do....and keep in mind one thing...I was a HUGE supporter of the game before i even joined this site. God man....you need to read up more on the game yourself before you judge someone like me "friend"
 

I joined Darkfall forum as number 22 the year 2001 out of the 54573 members we have today so i can say pretty safely i followed the game longer then you. I definetly have more knowledge in the game since you dont even seem to know about there restart 2003.

Game were just about totally restarted midsummer 2003 and if you want a quote contest in the matter, just ask.

"If you tear down your house completely and rebuild it then you count the age of the building from the day you restarted building your new home"

Just out of curiosity, what is the next revolution in games as you see it? Age of Conan wasnt. Warhammer is WoW2. Darkfall seems way more a revolution to me then those two.

The Thread is so funny - i had to laugh several times about the posts; it is a good example for a absolutely pointless discussion. Darkfall Hahaha - Buhahahahaha; maybe there is a Darkfall on the devs harddrives but there is no way that it can compete with the current mmos. The only thing that i know is that a bunch of guys who thought that they would be competent enough to program a game spent way to much money on that project with no result. I am sure it wasnt only their own money; that means, there is someone out there who wants his money back - and of course some extra cash. But how to do this without a released game. Its simple paying credits with a new loan from someone else. But how to get the necessary creditworthiness? Thats not that simple and requires some skills in the field of storytelling and figurepainting. But it seems like the team is at least capable of that. So your questioning yourself what the devs are doing all the time and why there is no progress in the game development. The reason is that they are currently programming other stuff as well; perhaps business software or a screensaver with glitter and naked girls to create some turnover and to pay at least the interests of the various credits they have collected so far to calm the private and institutional investors. I am quite sure that this company has a serious problem with its liquidity and that it will sooner or later be object of prosecution due to insolvency protraction.

Best regards

Originally posted by Herrmann

The Thread is so funny - i had to laugh several times about the posts; it is a good example for a absolutely pointless discussion. Darkfall Hahaha - Buhahahahaha; maybe there is a Darkfall on the devs harddrives but there is no way that it can compete with the current mmos. The only thing that i know is that a bunch of guys who thought that they would be competent enough to program a game spent way to much money on that project with no result. I am sure it wasnt only their own money; that means, there is someone out there who wants his money back - and of course some extra cash. But how to do this without a released game. Its simple paying credits with a new loan from someone else. But how to get the necessary creditworthiness? Thats not that simple and requires some skills in the field of storytelling and figurepainting. But it seems like the team is at least capable of that. So your questioning yourself what the devs are doing all the time and why there is no progress in the game development. The reason is that they are currently programming other stuff as well; perhaps business software or a screensaver with glitter and naked girls to create some turnover and to pay at least the interests of the various credits they have collected so far to calm the private and institutional investors. I am quite sure that this company has a serious problem with its liquidity and that it will sooner or later be object of prosecution due to insolvency protraction.

Best regards

This post is funny nearly as bad as the Troll and Haters posting here, all companies have issues with liquidity it is the degree to which they have it that is of concern. They have limited funds but .... that just slows the development focus and timelines. I have seen this in real life and seen programes of work fail and succeed, they are still working on DF no doubt about that. I don't believe they have ever denied they have certain areas of focus because of this but most people seem to think or act as if DF are Blizzard or a company of some standing or size they are neither.

And as such have to take a different approach. ( I guess it is not allowed) (Funny how a Jamaican who is too tall to run the 100m has pretty much just rewritten the way the sport will develop from now on... isn't it/ I put DF in the same category)

Originally posted by Herrmann

The Thread is so funny - i had to laugh several times about the posts; it is a good example for a absolutely pointless discussion. Darkfall Hahaha - Buhahahahaha; maybe there is a Darkfall on the devs harddrives but there is no way that it can compete with the current mmos. The only thing that i know is that a bunch of guys who thought that they would be competent enough to program a game spent way to much money on that project with no result. I am sure it wasnt only their own money; that means, there is someone out there who wants his money back - and of course some extra cash. But how to do this without a released game. Its simple paying credits with a new loan from someone else. But how to get the necessary creditworthiness? Thats not that simple and requires some skills in the field of storytelling and figurepainting. But it seems like the team is at least capable of that. So your questioning yourself what the devs are doing all the time and why there is no progress in the game development. The reason is that they are currently programming other stuff as well; perhaps business software or a screensaver with glitter and naked girls to create some turnover and to pay at least the interests of the various credits they have collected so far to calm the private and institutional investors. I am quite sure that this company has a serious problem with its liquidity and that it will sooner or later be object of prosecution due to insolvency protraction.

Best regards

To be honest mate, its not the slightest hard to compete with the crappiness of today MMORPG games. MMORPG games went downhill after UO went itembased with Age of Shadows february 2003. Today MMORPG games is about carebearism. Easy mode PvP with a splash of uberweapons all distributed in a gameworld where player influence dont count for. Its the developers that set the agenda, not the players. Go from quest 1 to quest 2 and please follow that red line while youre doing it. Aye, that is the "good" MMORPG games of today. =) Gimme a break.

Who put up the cudos for game developing isnt known but Aventurine is one part of a larger group of companies. Who knows, might be there bigger brother in that group of companies that finance Darkfall, who knows? My guess is as good as yours. 

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3331-Darkfall-Developer-Journal-1-About-Adventurine

[QUOTE] Aventurine currently employs 24 developers in-house and six professional contractors. The staff is international from Norway, Greece, Italy, the UK, the US, Denmark, and France. Its activities, other than Darkfall, are research into game and simulation technologies. We've also advised war-game simulation military projects in the past through other companies in our group, activities that have given us some valuable perspectives to be used in game development. The company also sponsors and supports sporting events, athletes, and competitive gaming tournaments. Aventurine is organized under the laws of Greece and the European Union as an S.A. Corporation. [/QUOTE]

Being one company out of many, which who know, some might be very wealthy can give you the necessary creditworthiness. Again, anybodies guess. They also get money from the EU to develop the game. Isnt it nice of them. =) Greek goverment seems to back them financially which i applaud them for. So i never felt that lost of funds were there biggest problem.

No progress in the game development you say. On what do you base there is no progress. Lack of info from the developers? No top of the notch game trailers? Very few costly advertising campaigns? 

Of course there is progress. Anyone that followed Darkfall as closely as i have from 2001 can see progress.

An easy seeable progress is comparing screenshots.

Here is 2 screenshots, one from 2001 and the other from 2008. Can you see any progress being made?

2001: http://www.darkfallonline.eu/darkfall-bilder/v/2001/df_2001_015.jpg.html

2008: http://www.darkfallonline.com/gallery/races/orks_01?full=1

To me it seems they improved the graphic alot over the years. Lets hope the coming video give us the last pieces in the puzzle called Darkfall. =)

Best Regards

Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by Agamemmnon

@aragon100

dont get upset, i wont comment on everthing u replied to my statement, but let me tell u this:

why do u want me to proof aventurine have financial problems? i never said that directly.......keep ur triggerfinger in ur holster and reread......all i did was stating that this behaviour is typical, (not only for game developers) if they have financial problems....so all i do is implying that there  is a high propability  that they do have problems like that....so there is nothing to proof for me there

 True you did make up a nice little story  that Aventurine "most likely" must have financial difficulties. =) Problem with that story is that neither you nor me have any info regarding  the accuracy behind your little story. So infact they could have some backup from Sheik Mohammed from Quatar that for some reason really loves sandbox MMORPG games. Its as a accurate story as yours. =)

one thing i dont want to let slip through unnoticed is ur statement concerning norway and greece: norway is expensive, but let me clear that out: developers come from norway, there is the whole world to choose,now ill give u sth to think about: between norway and greece is denmark, netherlands, belgium, germany, Poland!, austria, switzerland, Kroatia, Macedonia and so on...........of all this countrys mentioned, i can tell u something for sure: regarding rent and cost for living i KNOW greece is more expensive than germany, Poland, Macedonia..in all aspects,,,i ASSUME its more expensive than Croatia, others are indeed more expensive or i dont really know to make assumptions.....so u see? cannot have been the money......

Thing is they didnt get any offer from those other countries you mention above. So i guess the Greece offer that was something from the real world was the best of them.=)

I give you this again.

http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm

Here you have a nice link of how cheap Athens was to live in late 2002 when Razorwax moved to Greece and merged with Aventurine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities
 

xD? thx, this list actually proves my claim, for example  Brussels, madrid, lisabon  were cheaper in 2002and now, 2008 athens is actually one of the most expensive cities worldwide according to your list

let it be told by someone who lived 7 years in greece, IF it was a basically finacial decision, than why moving to athens? nearby xalkida was MUCH cheaper (now its more or less the same) and is by car about one and a half hour (even less) far from athens centre, which means its about 1 hour far from a lot of athens corporate districts...(yes that also means if u live in athens, driving within the city could easily take u nearly the same amount of time) but enough talk about that i know u want proof, ill get it for you just need to refind the link ill let you know when i find it, there is an article from one of the initial norwegian guys stating, that they deceided to stay in greece coz one of the developers girlfrind (or wife, do not remember) was greek and so they deceided to stay there.........another hint to me that aventurine is far from being a proffessional company than a bunch of funny programmers with a good idea....now some years later it surely has become more, but dont think at the long run itll be enough to publish such an ambitious project

Originally posted by Agamemmnon

Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by Agamemmnon

@aragon100

dont get upset, i wont comment on everthing u replied to my statement, but let me tell u this:

why do u want me to proof aventurine have financial problems? i never said that directly.......keep ur triggerfinger in ur holster and reread......all i did was stating that this behaviour is typical, (not only for game developers) if they have financial problems....so all i do is implying that there  is a high propability  that they do have problems like that....so there is nothing to proof for me there

 True you did make up a nice little story  that Aventurine "most likely" must have financial difficulties. =) Problem with that story is that neither you nor me have any info regarding  the accuracy behind your little story. So infact they could have some backup from Sheik Mohammed from Quatar that for some reason really loves sandbox MMORPG games. Its as a accurate story as yours. =)

one thing i dont want to let slip through unnoticed is ur statement concerning norway and greece: norway is expensive, but let me clear that out: developers come from norway, there is the whole world to choose,now ill give u sth to think about: between norway and greece is denmark, netherlands, belgium, germany, Poland!, austria, switzerland, Kroatia, Macedonia and so on...........of all this countrys mentioned, i can tell u something for sure: regarding rent and cost for living i KNOW greece is more expensive than germany, Poland, Macedonia..in all aspects,,,i ASSUME its more expensive than Croatia, others are indeed more expensive or i dont really know to make assumptions.....so u see? cannot have been the money......

Thing is they didnt get any offer from those other countries you mention above. So i guess the Greece offer that was something from the real world was the best of them.=)

I give you this again.

http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm

Here you have a nice link of how cheap Athens was to live in late 2002 when Razorwax moved to Greece and merged with Aventurine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities
 

 

xD? thx, this list actually proves my claim, for example  Brussels, madrid, lisabon  were cheaper in 2002and now, 2008 athens is actually one of the most expensive cities worldwide according to your list

let it be told by someone who lived 7 years in greece, IF it was a basically finacial decision, than why moving to athens? nearby xalkida was MUCH cheaper (now its more or less the same) and is by car about one and a half hour (even less) far from athens centre, which means its about 1 hour far from a lot of athens corporate districts...(yes that also means if u live in athens, driving within the city could easily take u nearly the same amount of time) but enough talk about that i know u want proof, ill get it for you just need to refind the link ill let you know when i find it, there is an article from one of the initial norwegian guys stating, that they deceided to stay in greece coz one of the developers girlfrind (or wife, do not remember) was greek and so they deceided to stay there.........another hint to me that aventurine is far from being a proffessional company than a bunch of funny programmers with a good idea....now some years later it surely has become more, but dont think at the long run itll be enough to publish such an ambitious project

Athens was very cheap during the first years they developed Darkfall, just look at the the years 2002 and forward. Way, way cheaper then Oslo during all years. The choice of Greece was definetly cause it was a way cheaper place for developing the game. I can grab up loads of Developer statement in the issue but to be honest i didnt think you were that stubborn.

Wether theyre top of the notch developers or not is to be seen on friday. They kept a low profile during the whole development process so its anybodies guess to figure if theyre good developers or not so good ones. Not going into expensive PR campaigns dont disqualify them from being proffesionals though. A small indy company i agree on but all companies have been small from starters. Not overhyping there game dont either disqualify them from being good developers. I applaud there laidback profile concerning hyping and PR. Let the game speak for itself. Why feed alot of fat PR people if you dont have the money for developing the game after? Make the game as good as possible and let the people be the judge of it. If they manage to deliver it will spread like a wildfire on the net.