World of Warcraft

FIgured I'd ask this here since it's impossible to get an intelligent reply on the official forums, and I'm kind of a novice with this game.

I'd like to make a tank. I'd prefer a warrior or paladin, since I don't feel like staring at a bear my entire tanking life. I don't really know what the big differences are between warriors and paladins when it comes to tanking. Another thing I'd like to know, I heard that a protection paladin, solo, can engage and beat many mobs at once due to their toughness and reactive damage skills. Can a warrior do anything like this, or is this mostly the domain of a paladin?

Warriors have several skills that are used to get and maintain a monster's aggression on them and not the dps/healers.  Paladins don't.

Paladins are more passive tanks. Warriors are more aggressive tanks.

Paladins lay down Consecration and do whatever Holy damage spells they have to tank.

Warriors have to constantly be Tabbing to new targets to do threat attacks to keep multiple mobs on them. A lot of newb Warriors think Thunder Clap will keep threat but it doesn't(not by a long shot)

Originally posted by grunty

Warriors have several skills that are used to get and maintain a monster's aggression on them and not the dps/healers.  Paladins don't.

This guy is extremely misinformed.  Don't listen to him.

If you want to tank, you have three current options: Warrior, Paladin, and Druid.  Luckily I've played all three and can tell you what I think of each.

Warrior:

• Single Target Threat: *****
• Multiple Target Threat: ***
• Mitigation (Damage Reduction): *****
• Damage While Tanking: **

Warriors are typically "expected" to tank when invited to groups.  Should you play a warrior, you should also expect to be the tank when invited.  If another tank is present, you also need to be able to do your best to deal decent damage to justify your place in the party.

Warriors have excellent single-target threat, but fall short of the other two tanks in multi-target tanking.  Mitigation for warriors is the best it can be for raids; bears do have higher armor and health, typically, but cannot avoid "Crushing" blows like a Warrior and some Paladins.  Damage while tanking is typically low, but this is mostly due to warriors not knowing when to put the shield away and unleash some pain while holding aggro (see below).  It is entirely possible to out-damage everyone else in your group if you can hold everything on you and DW/2h it up - with all that incoming rage, it would be hard not to do LOTS of damage.

Common myths about warriors:

1. "Warriors need to use a shield/stay in defensive stance constantly."  This is entirely untrue.  A warrior should know how to use all of the abilities he/she is given, including stances.  If you're meant to build threat on multiple enemies, Whirlwind is an excellent way to go about it.  Also, contrary to popular belief, even Protection specced warriors will deal more threat per second while Dual Wielding or with a two-handed weapon than a shield, provided you still spend most of your time in Defensive Stance, and know how to piss things off.  Don't forget, Damage = Threat.  Save your shield for particularly hard hitters, particularly large groups, or bosses.  Until then, you better serve your party by dealing more damage (threat) with other weapon options.
2. "Warriors should spec Protection if they want to tank."  Also untrue; any warrior can tank.  Warriors are built from the ground up to do it, and no warrior has enough points in protection for it to matter by the time the first few dungeons roll around.  Protection spec is helpful, however, for Raid situations, and some Heroic dungeons.

Druid:

• Single Target Threat: ****
• Multiple Target Threat: ****
• Mitigation: ****
• Damage While Tanking: ****

Admittedly, Druid is the class I have the least experience in.  They are excellent tanks all around, though slow to begin when levelling up.  While not as suited for raid tanking as a warrior due to inability to avoid crushing blows, druids make up for it with superior multi-target tanking (Swipe Spam works very well for this), and higher damage while tanking (usually).  Bears also have very high armor, and health, more than either of the other two tanks.

Paladin:

• Single Target Threat: **
• Multiple Target Threat: *****
• Mitigation: ***
• Damage While Tanking: *****

Paladins are interesting in that their threat is mostly reactive, rather than proactive.  Basically, every time an enemy hits the paladin, it only makes that enemy angrier at him/her.  Mana is an issue, as Rage is a far superior system for tanking, but a paladin's mana can become "rage-like," as heals grant a percentage of mana to the paladin who recieves them.

Since paladin threat is mostly reactive, the single-target threat of a paladin tends to be low.  Mana doesn't work as well as rage against only one target, since heals don't seem to grant quite as much staying power as attacks/being attacked does for rage.  Against multiple targets, however, is where the paladin shines, and I myself have tanked Shattered Halls in under half an hour as a paladin.  It's a bit harder to get rid of crushing blows as a paladin than a warrior, though it is possible.  Armor and health tends to be about the same as warriors, but Defensive Stance (especially when improved) as well as escapes like Shield Wall, Last Stand, etc. give Warriors the mitigation edge.

So, to recap:

Warrior = Raid Tank

Druid = All-Around Tank

Paladin = Multi-Target Tank

All three can do pretty much any tanking role, but the strengths and weaknesses of each are pretty clear.

Originally posted by Sawtooth

FIgured I'd ask this here since it's impossible to get an intelligent reply on the official forums, and I'm kind of a novice with this game.

I'd like to make a tank. I'd prefer a warrior or paladin, since I don't feel like staring at a bear my entire tanking life. I don't really know what the big differences are between warriors and paladins when it comes to tanking. Another thing I'd like to know, I heard that a protection paladin, solo, can engage and beat many mobs at once due to their toughness and reactive damage skills. Can a warrior do anything like this, or is this mostly the domain of a paladin?

It's true that protection paladins can, as they say "AoE grind," but this only starts happening at about level 30-35.  Until then you're better off speccing Retribution.  At level 50, protection grinding slows down considerably, and Retribution is the best choice you can make for levelling up again until 70.

Warriors can't quite "AoE grind," and in fact are fairly difficult to level up, since warriors are the most gear-dependant class in the game.  Expect to die a lot, even when soloing, and especially in the teen levels.  The best advice I can give for levelling a warrior is to use a shield when soloing, put your first talent points into Cruelty (Fury), Tactical Mastery (Protection), and then everything else in Arms.  Get Improved Thunder Clap as soon as possible.  At 40, respec either full Arms or full Fury, then slowly put your points back into the other tree.  It's not an easy road, but the destination is worthwhile.

The diffirence while tanking is that paladin uses Area of Effect and other skills wich effect all enemies near him. No matter how large the group is, paladin can keep all enemies on him as long as the healer can keep the paladin alive, and often paladins like to pull as large groups as possible. The larger the group, the better the paladin works as a tank.

Whereas warrior tanks only a single target at a time. Area of Effect abilities are very limited (thunderclap effects only 4 targets), and skilled tanks keep switching from one target to another as they try to keep them all attacking them. Warriors like to keep the fight controlled, pull only small amount of enemies, have them killed one at a time, and then they can run immediately to the next group. A warrior tank never needs to take a break from fighting unless some other groupmember needs that break.

And as a warrior you don't wan't to try beating larger groups of opponents while soloing. If you want to beat many opponents at once with a melee class, only protection paladin has really tools for it.

Also about Thrage's post: While it's possible to tank without shield, it's not something you should try unless you are really experienced or the instance is really easy. Warrior tanking is not about dishing out mad damage, it's about taking as little damage as possible. There are too many tanks who can't tank because they make the mistake of trying to do more damage.

And I've got a lot of experience from both tanking (mostly with warrior, some with paladin) and healing (with priest and paladin).

I would say paladin, i like them the best (im a healer for raids)

they always are dependable and rarely cause a wipe

Not to mention its not even worth rolling a druid tank right now, because its looking like they are going to die out with the new expansion (they are taking away our huge armor numbers....the only thing we had going for us...)

Warriors' AoE tanking is not limited to Thunderclap.
There are those days when Thunderclap was not available in defensive stance~ and people have to make use of any abilities available -- including (but not limited to) Demo Shout.

Paladin's mana (rage) bar is no different than Warrior's except maybe for:
- the color
- Pallies start their fight w/ their rage bar full
Warrior fills their rage bar by taking blows, Pallies refills their mana bar also by taking blows and getting healed. Both Warriors and Pallies, as they progress -- will mitigate more and naturally generate less rage (or mana).

In wotlk, single-target tanking for Protection Paladin is generally buffed by adding more active spells: a buyable spell and the 51 talent.

As for Crushing Blow, in wotlk: it'll only apply on mobs 4 levels higher than you. This means, if you're doing an instance at the appropriate level (ie: being lvl 80 and doing a lvl 80 instance) -- bosses will be 3 levels higher than you  and thus will not be able to do Crushing Blows anymore. Thus rejoice Droods & Pallies~ though I feel that this change is actually more to welcome Death Knights -- whom like Droods: can't block. This is the link to a post from Blizzard blue, if you wish to check the validity of this.

*edit: added info about single target tanking in wotlk.

I'll put this simple if you want to have "fun" tanking make a paladin nothing like being in a raid and seeing your OP pally tank put on thoes wings and tank a huge group of mobs and destroy them. Being able to tank multiple mobs is so awesome...trust me pally. nothing need more unless your in a guild swarmed with pally tanks (lol). warrior is good at tanking 1 target and anything passed 3 it gets very annoying but i guess you could call it "skill". Seriously pally tanking is fun as hell.