Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's:

FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed.

FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again.

FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels.

FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life!

Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!

What do you expect from an MMO?  There will always be grinding, killing x amount of this and a x amount of that, that is an MMO, its a freaking game not reality man...learn to distinguish between the two then maybe you will find what you enjoy...in game and in real life...

FACT - You have done no research on the game.

FACT - You know nothing about marketing.

I actually agree with your post. War will certainly not kill WoW...only another Blizzard MMO could even dent WoW's numbers but I do think War will have a decent playerbase. I am going to guess war will settle off at about 300k - 700k subs when the dust settles from launch.

To your other statement, I agree that there hasn't been any inovation in the MMO genre for quite some time and nothing I have seen from WoW or War or any other game on the horizon seems to be doing anything different except for maybe Darkfall (if it exists at all). We will just have to wait and see.

Originally posted by sabutai22

Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's:

FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed.

FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again.

FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels.

FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life!

Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!

 

 

Im not a fanboi but I must reply as im a gamer by nature.  I think your logic is flawed and your fact's are very skewed and manipulated.

The truth is that WAR does have many innovative features and trumps many of WoW's drawback's.  Time sinks and non-existent in WAR which is great imo, this will attract many styles of gamers.  Gamers hate time sinks and WoW is full of them.  Watching my bird fly over all the land I just traversed is one of them.  LAME! 

anyways im not here to argue but I will give credit where it is due and Mythic/WAR, great work!

You made my WoW killer.  Finally! 

Originally posted by vardar

What do you expect from an MMO?  There will always be grinding, killing x amount of this and a x amount of that, that is an MMO, its a freaking game not reality man...learn to distinguish between the two then maybe you will find what you enjoy...in game and in real life...

Its this mentality that causes the MMO rift of dull and unimaginative genre thats become!

"What do you expect from an MMO" you ask.. Well lets see considering most of these games cost 20+ million to make, i would say i expect ALLOT more than another cookie-cut garbage title thats for sure!

"Its a freaking game not reality man" you say.. Not when money is involved, its no longer a game, it becomes a business that sheep like you follow no matter what they dangle in front of you, why dont you just give them your wallet while your at it?

The MMO industry is at an all time low, and it shows with titles like AoC and WAR, when after 20+ Millions to make a game and all that a company can deliver is another WOW clone and not even have all the classes and cities at launch they advertised says allot for the industry as a whole, that the gamers are willing to pay for beta and the players are willing to take what ever a game company will dish.

Sad are the current days of MMO and worse the mentality the players seem to have with such low expectations!

Originally posted by sabutai22

Originally posted by vardar

What do you expect from an MMO?  There will always be grinding, killing x amount of this and a x amount of that, that is an MMO, its a freaking game not reality man...learn to distinguish between the two then maybe you will find what you enjoy...in game and in real life...

 

Its this mentality that causes the MMO rift of dull and unimaginative genre thats become!

"What do you expect from an MMO" you ask.. Well lets see considering most of these games cost 20+ million to make, i would say i expect ALLOT more than another cookie-cut garbage title thats for sure!

"Its a freaking game not reality man" you say.. Not when money is involved, its no longer a game, it becomes a business that sheep like you follow no matter what they dangle in front of you, why dont you just give them your wallet while your at it?

The MMO industry is at an all time low, and it shows with titles like AoC and WAR, when after 20+ Millions to make a game and all that a company can deliver is another WOW clone and not even have all the classes and cities at launch they advertised says allot for the industry as a whole, that the gamers are willing to pay for beta and the players are willing to take what ever a game company will dish.

Sad are the current days of MMO and worse the mentality the players seem to have with such low expectations!

 

Why fix what isn't broke?

PS> The MMO industry is at it's biggest height ever you show your true intellect my friend.

Originally posted by sabutai22

Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's:

FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed.  -Vast majority?  Care to share your research here?

FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again.  -The majority of people left other games to play WoW.  If a game is good enough people will leave to play it, but not if it is just the same thing in a different wrapper.

FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels.  -Again with vast majority?

FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life!  -I don't see anything that is threatening Warhammer or Warcraft.  I'm pretty certain both will be MMO giants for some time to come.

Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!

 

 

I hope Warhammer is not a WoW killer.  The last thing MMOs need is yet another game completly dominating the market. 

Originally posted by sabutai22

Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's:

FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed.

FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again.

FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels.

FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life!

Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!

 

 

This is merely for my own amusement so ignore at will ;)

FACT - The same thing was said before WoW and yet WoW has about 10.5m more subs then the biggest before them.

FACT - That might very well be true. An MMO doesn't need WoW numbers to be succesfull however.

FACT - WAR lacks neither. I invite you to play it and find out for yourself. It's not the reinvention of the wheel but that won't happen anyway. With any MMO.

FACT - The MMO market is sick and tired of half finished products. WAR doesn't seem to be. How sick it is of  the same fantasy grind remains to be seen. If it was, WOW wouldn't have 11 mil subs :)

I'm not saying WAR is the answer to all our prayers. It isn't. But this is just silly trolling. Then again, I'm sure you knew that when you made that post ;)

Originally posted by Daffid011

FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again.  -The majority of people left other games to play WoW.  If a game is good enough people will leave to play it, but not if it is just the same thing in a different wrapper.

This is the only part of your post that I have a real problem with. When WoW came out, there were only a couple hundred thousand of us playing MMO's so technically the majority of people that came to WoW were new to the MMO genre because before WoW, there weren't anywhere near 10million people playing MMO's.

Originally posted by onlinenow25

FACT - You have done no research on the game.

FACT - You know nothing about marketing.

First of all you do not know me, so assuming you "think i do not know" is just naive. Second, give a talented group of programmers, artist and musicians 20+ million to make an MMO title and they will deliver perfection! Mythic is only trying to get a "bite" of WOW player base in order to make cash, period!

Getting sick of these post's

Originally posted by sabutai22

Originally posted by onlinenow25

FACT - You have done no research on the game.

FACT - You know nothing about marketing.

 

First of all you do not know me, so assuming you "think i do not know" is just naive. Second, give a talented group of programmers, artist and musicians 20+ million to make an MMO title and they will deliver perfection! Mythic is only trying to get a "bite" of WOW player base in order to make cash, period!

 

Hi Mark Jacobs! I didn't know you posted under a fake name to burn your own game. ;)

Originally posted by sinjin

 

Why fix what isn't broke?

 

PS> The MMO industry is at it's biggest height ever you show your true intellect my friend.

"Why fix what isn't broke" OMG please tell me your young and naive, because if thats your answer then the fact that "WE" has humanity have advanced in so many areas Space Flight, Electricity, Color TV's ..etc..

But then i guess according to you, "Why Fix what isnt broke" we should just go back to black and white without digital phones and for sure no computers at home!

Originally posted by Alundre

Originally posted by Daffid011

FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again.  -The majority of people left other games to play WoW.  If a game is good enough people will leave to play it, but not if it is just the same thing in a different wrapper.

 

This is the only part of your post that I have a real problem with. When WoW came out, there were only a couple hundred thousand of us playing MMO's so technically the majority of people that came to WoW were new to the MMO genre because before WoW, there weren't anywhere near 10million people playing MMO's.

I wasn't saying the majority of WoW players are former MMO vets.  I was saying the majority of people from previous MMOs and those who had played MMOs previously did go to WoW.

However, there were millions of people who had previously or currently played MMOs by the time WoW came out.  The Lineage series had several million subscribers, EQ and FF XI had over 500k active subscribers just to name a few. 

Originally posted by sabutai22

Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's:

FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed.

Yes this seems to be true as we see lots of people crying out for something new and interesting. However it is a sad fact that actually most peoples imaginations can only stretch to what they have already seen. If you give people something new, complex and interesting then they will just get upset because they wont know what to do. Most people are sheep and they can only understand simplistic level based games. Level based games are terrible so I certainly hope they fade away soon.

FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again.

No they might not leave but they will just play WAR as well as WoW. Or they might cancel their subscription to WoW and renew it at a later date so they can still feel attached to their level 70 cookie cutter characters. WAR will be like a giant expansion pack for them where they can grind through more endless levels and farm for yet more phat loot.

FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels.

True but nobody cares. Most players just want to feel comfortable and stick with what they know, even if its mindless crap. In WAR everyone is "uber" so all the easily pleased people are happy. Everyone has super cool armour and uber weapons. Its what the kiddies and WoW fans want so thats what they are getting. I have a number of friends who say the same old crap like "Oh I'm gonna be a chaos warrior cos they look cool", totally failing to realise that thousands of other people will be the same as them. Hi my names Fire Wizard #753!

FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life!

I hope this is true. Unfortunately if WAR is really successful then more interesting games may take a dive in favour of more brainless mush. Simple and easy to understand products sell I'm afraid.

Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!

No it might not make a dent in an "oh this is unique" sense but it will make a lot of money which is all the developers care about.

Oh and for all of those statements to be FACT you need to back it up with actual figures. I have the same viewpoint as you as I also think the mmo market is total crap at the moment but I think you are giving the human race far too much credit.

Most people fall into the "monkey see monkey do" bracket :)

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Alundre

Originally posted by Daffid011

FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again.  -The majority of people left other games to play WoW.  If a game is good enough people will leave to play it, but not if it is just the same thing in a different wrapper.

 

This is the only part of your post that I have a real problem with. When WoW came out, there were only a couple hundred thousand of us playing MMO's so technically the majority of people that came to WoW were new to the MMO genre because before WoW, there weren't anywhere near 10million people playing MMO's.

I wasn't saying the majority of WoW players are former MMO vets.  I was saying the majority of people from previous MMOs and those who had played MMOs previously did go to WoW.

 

However, there were millions of people who had previously or currently played MMOs by the time WoW came out.  The Lineage series had several million subscribers, EQ and FF XI had over 500k active subscribers just to name a few. 

 

 

This in my opinion is both a blessing and a curse,

Blessing in the sense that the MMO industry has been put on the map and folks that have never played an MMO know or at least have heard of what an MMO is and are willing to try one.

Curse in the sense that many new players (mainly the ones that before WoW never played an MMO) have an expectation of what an MMO should be based on WoW only, rather than what it really is by comparison of other MMO titles which in my opinion got buried under WoW phenomenon that its turned into.

Originally posted by sabutai22

Originally posted by vardar

What do you expect from an MMO?  There will always be grinding, killing x amount of this and a x amount of that, that is an MMO, its a freaking game not reality man...learn to distinguish between the two then maybe you will find what you enjoy...in game and in real life...

 

Its this mentality that causes the MMO rift of dull and unimaginative genre thats become!

"What do you expect from an MMO" you ask.. Well lets see considering most of these games cost 20+ million to make, i would say i expect ALLOT more than another cookie-cut garbage title thats for sure!

"Its a freaking game not reality man" you say.. Not when money is involved, its no longer a game, it becomes a business that sheep like you follow no matter what they dangle in front of you, why dont you just give them your wallet while your at it?

The MMO industry is at an all time low, and it shows with titles like AoC and WAR, when after 20+ Millions to make a game and all that a company can deliver is another WOW clone and not even have all the classes and cities at launch they advertised says allot for the industry as a whole, that the gamers are willing to pay for beta and the players are willing to take what ever a game company will dish.

Sad are the current days of MMO and worse the mentality the players seem to have with such low expectations!

 

Very well said. I totally agree. The very low standard of mmo games are aimed at and thrive off of people like Vardar and there are lots of people who have the same view as his. They expect and accept the total crap they receive and happily pay money for it because they cant imagine anything beyond what already exists. Statements such as "there will always be grinding" prove this.

Time sinks and non-existent in WAR which is great imo, this will attract many styles of gamers.  Gamers hate time sinks and WoW is full of them.  Watching my bird fly over all the land I just traversed is one of them.  LAME! 

 

Wait a minute.... are you telling me that Warhammer will not have significant travel? If so I will cancel my preorder right now. I really despise instant travel games. I want the world to feel large and I feel WoW's travel wasn't very long but at least it was somewhat meaningful.

Please enlighten me on how Warhammer does travel so I can make a decision now. I find WoW already incredibly easy if Warhammer tries to make theirs even more instant gratification garbage I will save 49.95.

Originally posted by sabutai22

Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's:

FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed.

FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again.

FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels.

FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life!

Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!

 

 

Fact: Starting a troll thread you are trying

Fact: Great game Warhammer is, incorrect you are

Fact: Closed beta am in.