As bad as a game like AoC is with all of the bugs and bad GMs, the company isn't going to go out of business or have any financial problems.  While a large amount of people have stopped playing the game they still have sold 1,250,000 copies and have had at least 400,000 people pay the monthly fee since it has been released.  At $40 per copy sold between them and their publishers thats $50,000,000.  If anything, I'd consider that a financial success.

Now if they have any credibility in the future when it comes to MMOs is another story.  Then again the vast majority of people don't pay attention to the company the makes the game.  They just see a title and think it would look like fun to play.

People think a game needs to have WoW numbers to turn a profit, but at 100,000 subscribers they're still bringing in over a million a month.  I have to say that isn't all too bad.

Originally posted by zethcarn

 

The customers don't care who's fault it is exactly.  If I buy a new car I expect ALL the parts to work as intended,  not just a few here and there.  AoC is crap in my opinion btw.

HAHA I really wonder who made up this thing about a car. It is STUPID yes it is , sorry but when I buy a game or MMORPG I pay between 10/60 Euro, when we talk about buying a car my insurance alone is far more then what a game will ever cost me let alone buying the car which cost me between 30/50k. Maybe some of you are able to buy a car as cheap a MMORPG + sub fee cost to make such a ridiculous analogy

So why do people speak about things as if they buy a car with no wheels or steering wheel, it does not make any form of sense.

To the OP sorry man but this whole inpatient behavior people show is NOT helping this genre but only is dumping down this genre cause it is very obvious that many people simply have no clue what it takes to create a MMORPG so they bash due to them having no clue what so ever.

There are tons of games I dislike, but you won't see me bashing those games as I myself understand that not every game is meant for me, shame that many people assume that every game made must be awesome for them and if it it isn't we see these new people into these games to following the trend of the inpatient gamer in hopes this genre continues to be dumped down. Cause that's all what will happen due to the inpatient nature of the new gen. player. And I for one am not happy with that trend and never thought you Enigma would take sides on the inpatient type of people who try to play games.

I am not saying I am okay with recent development, but all I can say is that the inpatient com. is getting what they ask for, problem is that most will NOT understand that they are the cause of the dumping down of this genre.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by zethcarn

 

The customers don't care who's fault it is exactly.  If I buy a new car I expect ALL the parts to work as intended,  not just a few here and there.  AoC is crap in my opinion btw.

 

HAHA I really wonder who made up this thing about a car. It is STUPID yes it is , sorry but when I buy a game or MMORPG I pay between 10/60 Euro, when we talk about buying a car my insurance alone is far more then what a game will ever cost me let alone buying the car which cost me between 30/50k. Maybe some of you are able to buy a car as cheap a MMORPG + sub fee cost to make such a ridiculous analogy

So why do people speak about things as if they buy a car with no wheels or steering wheel, it does not make any form of sense.

To the OP sorry man but this whole inpatient behavior people show is NOT helping this genre but only is dumping down this genre cause it is very obvious that many people simply have no clue what it takes to create a MMORPG so they bash due to them having no clue what so ever.

There are tons of games I dislike, but you won't see me bashing those games as I myself understand that not every game is meant for me, shame that many people assume that every game made must be awesome for them and if it it isn't we see these new people into these games to following the trend of the inpatient gamer in hopes this genre continues to be dumped down. Cause that's all what will happen due to the inpatient nature of the new gen. player. And I for one am not happy with that trend and never thought you Enigma would take sides on the inpatient type of people who try to play games.

I am not saying I am okay with recent development, but all I can say is that the inpatient com. is getting what they ask for, problem is that most will NOT understand that they are the cause of the dumping down of this genre.

The car analogy is about the finished product not the price.  So basically you are saying you don't care if you wasted $50 on an unfinished buggy piece of crap.  Well then you are part of the problem as to why these games get released.
 

I agree 100 percent and this is well written and I believe I speak for many when I say this gives us hope.

Originally posted by zethcarn

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by zethcarn

 

The customers don't care who's fault it is exactly.  If I buy a new car I expect ALL the parts to work as intended,  not just a few here and there.  AoC is crap in my opinion btw.

 

HAHA I really wonder who made up this thing about a car. It is STUPID yes it is , sorry but when I buy a game or MMORPG I pay between 10/60 Euro, when we talk about buying a car my insurance alone is far more then what a game will ever cost me let alone buying the car which cost me between 30/50k. Maybe some of you are able to buy a car as cheap a MMORPG + sub fee cost to make such a ridiculous analogy

So why do people speak about things as if they buy a car with no wheels or steering wheel, it does not make any form of sense.

To the OP sorry man but this whole inpatient behavior people show is NOT helping this genre but only is dumping down this genre cause it is very obvious that many people simply have no clue what it takes to create a MMORPG so they bash due to them having no clue what so ever.

There are tons of games I dislike, but you won't see me bashing those games as I myself understand that not every game is meant for me, shame that many people assume that every game made must be awesome for them and if it it isn't we see these new people into these games to following the trend of the inpatient gamer in hopes this genre continues to be dumped down. Cause that's all what will happen due to the inpatient nature of the new gen. player. And I for one am not happy with that trend and never thought you Enigma would take sides on the inpatient type of people who try to play games.

I am not saying I am okay with recent development, but all I can say is that the inpatient com. is getting what they ask for, problem is that most will NOT understand that they are the cause of the dumping down of this genre.

The car analogy is about the finished product not the price.  So basically you are saying you don't care if you wasted $50 on an unfinished buggy piece of crap.  Well then you are part of the problem as to why these games get released.
 

No I was not saying that.

---

Originally posted by Dreadlich

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Originally posted by Midnitte

 

---

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
The sad thing about this post is, companies arent learning, Warhammer is walking down this same route, and people cant seem to see it.
Ive adopted a strict wait 45 days after launch before buying policy that i plan to follow for here on out for all pay to play games.
 
And as for the guy refuting the car analogy, you clearly are missing the point, it doesnt matter if they rushed the launch or they were kicked in the back, a shitty game is a shitty game, how it got that way makes no nevermind to the customer. Placing blame is just making excuses for releasing an unfinished product and trying to make players understand why they should continue to fork over money while they fix their grand, expensive beta test.

---

Agreed, people seem to think that because they have trust in a product means its going to be great or worth the money/wait/etc. I played the beta and it plays just like all the other games out (except for WoW) and really only does a few things different (PQs, RvR [though there are games with this]). Its a bit tiring when companies want to follow the mold and not take risks (blame this on publishers/investors) and actually create a game they want to create.
 

---

Sounds like you're bored with the genre and expect them to reinvent the wheel with every new game. The best you will ever see when this much money is on the line is "a few things different".
 

---

---

Originally posted by Dreadlich

---

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

The sad thing about this post is, companies arent learning, Warhammer is walking down this same route, and people cant seem to see it.
Ive adopted a strict wait 45 days after launch before buying policy that i plan to follow for here on out for all pay to play games.
 
And as for the guy refuting the car analogy, you clearly are missing the point, it doesnt matter if they rushed the launch or they were kicked in the back, a shitty game is a shitty game, how it got that way makes no nevermind to the customer. Placing blame is just making excuses for releasing an unfinished product and trying to make players understand why they should continue to fork over money while they fix their grand, expensive beta test.

---

 
It matters because some people actually care about being correct.

---

It's because we're all tired of the bullshit.

2008 and mmorpgs are just making steps back and not evolving.

Blame the developers and not the investor.

See the developers have a deadline and if they can't meet that deadline and run out of money then it's their own fault for letting their ego's get in the way to how much they could do before release. Money just doesn't pop out of nowhere and if the investors need money then obviously they can't afford to keep throwing it away.

The way I see it is it's the developers fault for making a crap product.

Originally posted by PapaLazarou

Blame the developers and not the investor.

See the developers have a deadline and if they can't meet that deadline and run out of money then it's their own fault for letting their ego's get in the way to how much they could do before release. Money just doesn't pop out of nowhere and if the investors need money then obviously they can't afford to keep throwing it away.

The way I see it is it's the developers fault for making a crap product.

It all comes back to people underestimating what it takes for money and time to actually develop and test an MMOG these days. The developers want to get their funding, so they will hamstring themselves by promising unrealistic deadlines to producers. Then producers get used to this sort of timeline/cost and expect miracles (aka WoW-like success). Someone has to break the vicious cycle and let the producers know what the real deal is... at this point though I don't think that will ever happen.

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

 

---

Originally posted by Dreadlich

---

Originally posted by Midnitte

 

 
 

---

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
The sad thing about this post is, companies arent learning, Warhammer is walking down this same route, and people cant seem to see it.
Ive adopted a strict wait 45 days after launch before buying policy that i plan to follow for here on out for all pay to play games.
 
And as for the guy refuting the car analogy, you clearly are missing the point, it doesnt matter if they rushed the launch or they were kicked in the back, a shitty game is a shitty game, how it got that way makes no nevermind to the customer. Placing blame is just making excuses for releasing an unfinished product and trying to make players understand why they should continue to fork over money while they fix their grand, expensive beta test.

---

Agreed, people seem to think that because they have trust in a product means its going to be great or worth the money/wait/etc. I played the beta and it plays just like all the other games out (except for WoW) and really only does a few things different (PQs, RvR [though there are games with this]). Its a bit tiring when companies want to follow the mold and not take risks (blame this on publishers/investors) and actually create a game they want to create.
 

---

Sounds like you're bored with the genre and expect them to reinvent the wheel with every new game. The best you will ever see when this much money is on the line is "a few things different".
 

---

 
You dont seem to get it, it just isnt sinking in for you is it? Your condescension is.
NO, we dont want the wheel reinvented(though the time for it to be reinvented is coming up very soon) we just expect a game to play the way it was fucking advertised to play, its not rocket science, if you tell me 24 classes, give me 24 classes, if you say you are going to be DX10 capable, then you better make sure your engine is capable of doing it. If you say your product is going to be a game then make sure the damn thing is at least playable, dont make me pay 80 bucks for something that feels like an alpha client.
And yeah things get cut, not everything can make it at launch, thats why devolopers dont open their mouth unless they know a certain feature will certainly find its way into the game. Making promises you cant keep is bad form, and that is something they shouldve learned way back in business school.

I do understand what you are saying. When they say they're going to do something, they damn well better do it. When they promise certain features then you have a right to expect those to be in the released product. I get it. I got it before you ever said it and agree on principle.

That doesn't change the reality of the MMO gaming industry though. With the long production times and level of involvement allowed to the fans, lots of things get said and promised and changes get made and all kind of shit gets stirred up over the life of a games developement. It's happened over and over and over with practically every MMO that's ever been released. They make plans to put in things and relay that to the fans. It always happens though, that time and money constraints force them to alter their plans and drop some things entirely. The other thing that always happens is that the fans always seem astounded and outraged that they didn't get everything they were promised.

EDIT: (My comment was in response to Midnitte, but you seem to be defending his position) Midnitte said that WAR "really only does a few things different". My comment was not out of line with what they said and I could say the same condescending shit about you as you did in your reply. A few things different is all a major MMO like WAR can afford to offer. The rest is in execution and presentation.

 

---

Originally posted by Dreadlich

---

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

 

The sad thing about this post is, companies arent learning, Warhammer is walking down this same route, and people cant seem to see it.
Ive adopted a strict wait 45 days after launch before buying policy that i plan to follow for here on out for all pay to play games.
 
And as for the guy refuting the car analogy, you clearly are missing the point, it doesnt matter if they rushed the launch or they were kicked in the back, a shitty game is a shitty game, how it got that way makes no nevermind to the customer. Placing blame is just making excuses for releasing an unfinished product and trying to make players understand why they should continue to fork over money while they fix their grand, expensive beta test.

---

 

 
It matters because some people actually care about being correct.

---

 
Again you missed the point, alright  people care about being correct, hypothetically, we established it is the publishers fualt the game is bug ridden trash... does that make it any better? 
Seems you just quoted me to add+1 to your post count, i explained my position and your coment didnt change the fact that there was more then enough logic to crush your statement.

 

Again, I get your damn point. You missed mine. You stated that it doesn't matter who's to blame, a shitty game is a shitty game and how it got that way doesn't matter to the customer. I said it matters if you want to be correct, meaning that you should know who's to blame so you know how to complain and who to complain to. You're not crushing anything, just being a pompous ass.

Originally posted by Kilrain

Originally posted by Dreadlich

You can call it greed if you want, but the reality is that these MMOs cost a fortune to make. Every publisher has to balance developement costs with the risk of releasing too early. The MMO community having less patience with these games only insures that less will be made and only by the most well funded developers. Intolerance will slit your own throat when it comes to MMOs. It's just not worth it for companies to sink the huge amounts of money into these things that take an insane amount of man-hours to create and maintain, only to have the fickle and  intolerant community take a collective crap on your efforts.

 

This is what most people don't realize. Take Age of Conan for instance, yeah so Funcom didn't deliver exaclty what they promised, but who was paying for it? Not them I can guarrentee it.

People don't realize that the companies that create games want them to be the best they can be, it's unfortunate that the public needs to bash on the developers when it was in fact the publishers/investors that have money tied up in the game that are responsible for unfinished games.

So you can say, "The devs had plenty of time!" .. whatever, make the game yourself then, we'll see how well that works out.

YES it's a problem, but unfortunately we are bashing the wrong people.

I say PROPS to funcom, Age of Conan is an excellent game, just too bad your investors didn't give you the time needed to complete it.

It is pretty common for us at MMORPG.com to add a few years and months to a games official release date when the developers announce it.  How is it possible that we gamers have a more realistic idea of when the developers will complete their games?  Do we have a better understanding of their abilities than they do?  How is it possible for those of us who don't work in the industry to be able to correctly disagree when a developer gives a time frame?

It's also pretty common in the industry to hide the failures until the consumers discover them.  All that we really need is that a buyer beware policy be put into place.  Let the buyer know of all the deficiencies that are in your product so that they can make an educated decision to buy it or not.  We'll call it caveat emptor.  Mythic has done this and lots of people praise them for it.  Subscribers that don't like the idea of playing a still in beta game will wait until it is feature complete.  Problem solved.

Originally posted by Enigma

.....and that is MMO players are having less patience for the many ways developers handle their games and, in my opinion, this is a good thing as it may force developers to actually make sure their games are playable before releasing.

The reason why I bring this up is because of three MMOs that comes to mind:

• Star Wars Galaxies: New Game Enchancement.  This has been debated FOREVER and I wont go into who was at fault or screwed up this more..LA or SOE.  I could really care less at this point.  I remembered when I was on staff here I did a review on the NGE (its still on the SWG section) and while I was playing it, I thought to myself: well, crap, this wont go too well with the players.  I remember when SOE tried to keep it under wraps but Amazon dropped the ball by releasing the new NGE details too early.  The Community Manager over at SWG kept on denying the truth that the Developers were messing around with a game that has been in productivity for two years now. Sadly, the Community Manager literally did not know and when she voiced her opinion against NGE, she was promptly fired.  No matter how many commercials (you guys remember all those SWG NGE commercials?) they produced, the exodus of players from SWG was jaw dropping.  Since I have been playing MMOs (since 1999), I had NEVER experience such a massive withdrawal of players from any MMO at one time ever.  This was the first wave (and hint) that players weren't going to take it anymore.

 

• Vanguard Saga of Heroes:  This game was the second AAA rated MMO that was affected by the players' mentality of we aren't going to take it anymore.  Brad McQuaid took a good idea and completely crashed and burned it into the ground leaving only a few survivors.  In his mind, he thought he could lead a company because he had a nice ranger in EQ and he was on the EQ development team. Well, common sense dictates that a game developer who helped with artistic rendering would not necessarily qualify them for running a multi million dollar software company.  He had no business skills (or educational training) whatsoever.  He was so convinced that people would play his game regardless because of the nifty features he was adding (seamless world, diplomacy side quests, etc) but what he failed to realize was that many players just will not play a buggy game anymore.

            McQuaid was so convinced of it, that he screwed around with Microsoft and lost millions from that and during the last 2 months of development he hardly ever went to work.  But when it was released, the players quickly realized how buggy the game was and in two months time the subscription numbers went from 250,000 to 20,000.  They lost so many players that Sigil could no longer afford to maintain the servers and to pay their developer salaries.  Later in the second month, Brad drove away on his motorcycle and hired a 3rd party person (who is paid to fire people...kinda like in Office Space) to fire his entire company save for four people. They brought them out in the parking lot, said you are fired and made them all go home.  Sigil failed because they hyped a game and lied about results. They thought the player would be understanding and that Sigil will continue to get money from there player base so they could "fix" their game while we payed to beta test their game further.  Their failure to comprehend basic principles of business cost them their company and they ceased to exist.

• Age of Conan:  We all knew the hype.  It was hyped for YEARS and 99% of us thought it was going to be our miracle MMO that we have been waiting for years.  The screenshots were increadible, the combat combos were revolutionary and the fatalities were new.  However, when we started to play it we realized the hard truth.  It had a pretty game skin but the inside was just rot.  They are plagued with bugs, GMs unsure about their own PvP ruleset, quesitonable moderators, etc.  They boasted 750K subscribers in the first month alone declaring it from rooftop to rooftop and we saw it. The servers were packed and many more were coming in.  However, it had a fatal flaw:  it was release with way too many bugs, false promises, and missing features.

             Funcom has had the mindset that Sigil did. We'll let the monies that come in from the release and the subsequent months to further pay for our developers to come out with better patches to stabilize this game. This is a fatal flaw because players are tired of paying for beta. They've just washed their hands and said no more.  We'll see what happens to funcom in the future. They still have a chance to save themselves but they need to be honest with their playerbase if they hope to achieve this.

Players are tired now of half assed MMOs. It doesn't matter if the MMO is the most hyped MMO of the century, if it is release in a shitty state of affairs players just aren't going to stick around anymore.  It isn't because players have lost patience in development of MMOs; it is because players have grown to dismiss the excuses that developers give them now.

Watch the interview with Jon and the Lead Developer of Funcom. Funcom was skirting those questions like Clinton during the Monica Lewinksy hearings. 

Its in the hands of us now as the players to tell these companies that enough is enough. Develop it right the first time or don't do it at all. MMOs have been released with VERY LITTLE bugs in the past so it can be done. The question is whether or not these companies have the ethic morality of taking the time to do it right the first time versus having their frist few months of subscribers pay for their patches.

Star Wars: I agree, Sony screwed it up. Players won't tolerate this at all.

Vanguard: it wasn't just the bugs. The seamless world isn't necessary. Zoning now and then is no big deal. Diplomacy? This was a bad game feature for a group orientated game. Don't add solo mini games to a group oriented game, that should be obvious.

AoC: Besides the bugs, I was never waiting on AoC. Combat combos? Are you kidding? They don't belong in an MMO. Go play an FPS or some other button mashing game if that's what you want. I knew the game was going to suck BECAUSE it had combat combos.

Everyone knows it, players, devs, publishes. Release is your only chance. If you don't release a solid game, it doesn't matter if you fix it later, you will have lost your chance for big subscription numbers, and you never get a second chance.

A nice summation from the OP.

The mmo genre has left me with a lot of pessimism lately.  I'm 39 years old.  I don't want to be strung along day after day, week after week, month after month, patch after patch, only to be told by a company they changed their mind and they are not going to implement things they promised. 

As in the case of SWG, I think it's not always about the money or lack there of.  Some times it's just people making bad decisions and so much hubris is involved they overlook the fundamental principle in business that a happy customer is a paying customer.

I think in a good business relationship there is mutual respect.  But lately it seems, mmo companies are putting more energy toward marketing and less toward the actual game, creating feelings of distrust and cynicism when promises and features are not delivered.   Maybe this is not so much necessarily exclusive to gaming as it is to the society in which I live, which seems to perpetuate form over substance in every aspect.

  It use to be a longer window of opertunity that a fan base or player base gave what ever team to work with a chance to make it right happen, However given the onset of a few recent releases that were released to early players have gotten more skeptical as time went on. I also believe that many folks that use to be actively involved in mmo's have let go of this hobby or moved to console /pc gaming and found things to do other then whack a mole and high end game of raiding.

  They came, they saw ,they tried ,others over and over and that spark of stick tuitveness and guilds social happenings being their for your kin/guild/pa seems to be lost on the current linnear games being released at this point. \ Nicely written Enigma

Originally posted by Dreadlich

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

 

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Originally posted by Dreadlich

---

Originally posted by Midnitte

 

 
 

---

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
The sad thing about this post is, companies arent learning, Warhammer is walking down this same route, and people cant seem to see it.
Ive adopted a strict wait 45 days after launch before buying policy that i plan to follow for here on out for all pay to play games.
 
And as for the guy refuting the car analogy, you clearly are missing the point, it doesnt matter if they rushed the launch or they were kicked in the back, a shitty game is a shitty game, how it got that way makes no nevermind to the customer. Placing blame is just making excuses for releasing an unfinished product and trying to make players understand why they should continue to fork over money while they fix their grand, expensive beta test.

---

Agreed, people seem to think that because they have trust in a product means its going to be great or worth the money/wait/etc. I played the beta and it plays just like all the other games out (except for WoW) and really only does a few things different (PQs, RvR [though there are games with this]). Its a bit tiring when companies want to follow the mold and not take risks (blame this on publishers/investors) and actually create a game they want to create.
 

---

Sounds like you're bored with the genre and expect them to reinvent the wheel with every new game. The best you will ever see when this much money is on the line is "a few things different".
 

---

 
You dont seem to get it, it just isnt sinking in for you is it? Your condescension is.
NO, we dont want the wheel reinvented(though the time for it to be reinvented is coming up very soon) we just expect a game to play the way it was fucking advertised to play, its not rocket science, if you tell me 24 classes, give me 24 classes, if you say you are going to be DX10 capable, then you better make sure your engine is capable of doing it. If you say your product is going to be a game then make sure the damn thing is at least playable, dont make me pay 80 bucks for something that feels like an alpha client.
And yeah things get cut, not everything can make it at launch, thats why devolopers dont open their mouth unless they know a certain feature will certainly find its way into the game. Making promises you cant keep is bad form, and that is something they shouldve learned way back in business school.

 

I do understand what you are saying. When they say they're going to do something, they damn well better do it. When they promise certain features then you have a right to expect those to be in the released product. I get it. I got it before you ever said it and agree on principle.

That doesn't change the reality of the MMO gaming industry though. With the long production times and level of involvement allowed to the fans, lots of things get said and promised and changes get made and all kind of shit gets stirred up over the life of a games developement. It's happened over and over and over with practically every MMO that's ever been released. They make plans to put in things and relay that to the fans. It always happens though, that time and money constraints force them to alter their plans and drop some things entirely. The other thing that always happens is that the fans always seem astounded and outraged that they didn't get everything they were promised.

EDIT: (My comment was in response to Midnitte, but you seem to be defending his position) Midnitte said that WAR "really only does a few things different". My comment was not out of line with what they said and I could say the same condescending shit about you as you did in your reply. A few things different is all a major MMO like WAR can afford to offer. The rest is in execution and presentation.

 

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Originally posted by Dreadlich

---

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

 

The sad thing about this post is, companies arent learning, Warhammer is walking down this same route, and people cant seem to see it.
Ive adopted a strict wait 45 days after launch before buying policy that i plan to follow for here on out for all pay to play games.
 
And as for the guy refuting the car analogy, you clearly are missing the point, it doesnt matter if they rushed the launch or they were kicked in the back, a shitty game is a shitty game, how it got that way makes no nevermind to the customer. Placing blame is just making excuses for releasing an unfinished product and trying to make players understand why they should continue to fork over money while they fix their grand, expensive beta test.

---

 

 

 
It matters because some people actually care about being correct.

---

 

 
Again you missed the point, alright  people care about being correct, hypothetically, we established it is the publishers fualt the game is bug ridden trash... does that make it any better? 
Seems you just quoted me to add+1 to your post count, i explained my position and your coment didnt change the fact that there was more then enough logic to crush your statement.

 

Again, I get your damn point. You missed mine. You stated that it doesn't matter who's to blame, a shitty game is a shitty game and how it got that way doesn't matter to the customer. I said it matters if you want to be correct, meaning that you should know who's to blame so you know how to complain and who to complain to. You're not crushing anything, just being a pompous ass.

You should learn to use full statements, your posts wouldnt come off as sounding so ridiculous, how you feel your single sentence earlier conveys the comment you made just now is only for you to connect the dots with.

And name one game where you could complain directly to the publisher for a flashed product, In the end knowing who screwed up still means nothing, as you all complain to the same place.

Originally posted by Thrage

Originally posted by Kilrain

Originally posted by Thrage

Some of you might remember Warcraft's problems at release, but most people don't, because it was a bit different. The game's playerbase exploded to an amount that Blizzard was ill-prepared for, and it took them a little while to get things under control.  The important thing though is that the game was finished before then (save a few instances like Dire Maul and Maraudon.)

 

As part of my post above, Blizzard has plenty of money, they don't need investors to back them and push them into early release.

Like i said, blame investors, not developers.

 

That's not completely true.  Blizzard's got Vivendi, and Vivendi DID push them to release before they were ready.  Maraudon and Dire Maul weren't the only things missing that they'd have liked to have in there, and even Burning Crusade was released before Black Temple was finished.

Now that I think on it, Blizzard wasn't done with EITHER of them ... why did they get away with it?

Because there is a huge diference between missing a few "content" items such as 2 specific dungeons, that are far up on the leveling curve, and releasing a game with major issues in its core systems or that is missing large pieces of its lower level game.

Even in todays market, gamers can forgive not plugging in the absolute furthest point of the endgame immediately. As long as the delay isn't too extreme. Yes Blizzard had a handful of content pieces not quite ready at launch day. But they were careful that the game below that was balanced, fun and completely functioning as a game. The term most often used is polish.

Other games have mastered this as well. DAoC didn't launch with everything. Among other things, much of the armor art and itemization wasn't finished. But from the first day you played it you knew you had a good game. It worked as it was supposed to. It had that feel of polish. AC1 had much the same experience.

It's subjective and varies from game to game. But MMO players are getting savy'er at picking up on it.

Originally posted by Torak

I would approach any new MMO with a very healthy dose of "wait and see how it goes".  

Thats pretty much my motto lately. I've avoided pre-orders and collectors editions anymore. Its just not worth it. Why pay for something you may end up hating within a month?

I agree with the OP on most points. I think a problem we as consumers are going to run into is that we have no one clear voice. Too many people have too many varying opinions about the state of any MMO. Hell, just look at the forums here. Some love it, some hate it and then there are all the others in between. You are going to have to break it down to simple, generic demands to a game company to see any progress. You may get eight million voices crying for change, but guaranteed seven million are screaming to go in completely opposite directions.