Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Suvroc

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Originally posted by ummax 
6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom.   None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.

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Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.

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I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked.  Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again.    He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough.    I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people.   
I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.   

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But he has never apologized for what he/SOE did wrong, and they continue to make the same mistakes. That is why the apology has been ineffective.

 

yeah he has its jsut not good enough for some people.  It was good enough for me.   I can recognize when a company makes a true effort to make things right its shown in what they are doing presently and what he has said.   

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Suvroc

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Originally posted by ummax 
6) Sony as a company has apologies and most peple here wont even acknowledge it yet they acknowledge that other companies have learned from their mistakes.. that's bias .. and in inability to step back. Because Sony as a company has from then until now grown in leaps and bounds and at this point in time offers a MUCH superior service then any of the following EA, NCSOFT and funcom.   None of them is great, but in the scheme of things they are in fact BETTER.

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Read the "apology" a little more closely, it's quite cleverly written. They aren't actually appologizing for what people wanted an appology for.
They haven't addressed the key issues surrounding the "incident", and therefore haven't shown me that they have learned from their mistakes.

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I've read enough apologies from smedly to sink a ship as he keeps being asked.  Fact is he said he was sorry and its not something that they will be doing again.    He has been interviewed and ask that questions about it several times and everytime he apologizes, but for some people what they want is to see him be fired as apologies are not good enough.    I suspect that they would prefer he draw and quarter himself and possibly commit samurai suicide and fall on his sword even then he probably will not be apologising to some people.   
I know what I have read and I know what happens on this board and I know that he has indeed apologized.. like everytime he is asked about it he apologizes.   

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But he has never apologized for what he/SOE did wrong, and they continue to make the same mistakes. That is why the apology has been ineffective.

 

 

yeah he has its jsut not good enough for some people.  It was good enough for me.   I can recognize when a company makes a true effort to make things right its shown in what they are doing presently and what he has said.   

Depends on what you think the "mistake" is.  He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself.

So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again.  Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch. 

Nope, they just don't "get it" even now.

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

Depends on what you think the "mistake" is.  He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself.

So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again.  Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch. 

Nope, they just don't "get it" even now.

that will never happen and you know it

a) LA has a say in what goes on and has just renewed an IP and contract with them and nothing has ever occured that even hints that LA is unhappy at Sony.   LA has the last word and yet nothing changes, but they are STILL paying the bills.

b) your asking them to make the same mistake twice.  When he was asked about that and yes he was interveiwed about it that's exactly what his response was.  That mistake was made with the game once and they now have a subscriber base to make the same mistake again and do to customers what everyone is angry abuot them once would not make much sense.

They said they didn't care if they lost customers over the NGE, so since they don't care if they lose money, they should have a few precu servers.  Even if no one subscribed the gesture would go along way.

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Esquire1980

 
Depends on what you think the "mistake" is.  He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself.
So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again.  Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch. 
Nope, they just don't "get it" even now.

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that will never happen and you know it
a) LA has a say in what goes on and has just renewed an IP and contract with them and nothing has ever occured that even hints that LA is unhappy at Sony.   LA has the last word and yet nothing changes, but they are STILL paying the bills.
b) your asking them to make the same mistake twice.  When he was asked about that and yes he was interveiwed about it that's exactly what his response was.  That mistake was made with the game once and they now have a subscriber base to make the same mistake again and do to customers what everyone is angry abuot them once would not make much sense.
 

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Actually, he is asking them to stop making the same mistake over and over again. They have already made the same mistake (although to a lesser extent) at least five times since the NGE. THAT is why they fail.

Originally posted by Terranah

They said they didn't care if they lost customers over the NGE, so since they don't care if they lose money, they should have a few precu servers.  Even if no one subscribed the gesture would go along way.

well it appears LA doesn't agree that those servers are necessary.  YOu see your beef is with LA not Sony your complaining about the wrong company at this point in time. 

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

Depends on what you think the "mistake" is.  He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself.

So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again.  Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch. 

Nope, they just don't "get it" even now.

 

that will never happen and you know it

a) LA has a say in what goes on and has just renewed an IP and contract with them and nothing has ever occured that even hints that LA is unhappy at Sony.   LA has the last word and yet nothing changes, but they are STILL paying the bills.

b) your asking them to make the same mistake twice.  When he was asked about that and yes he was interveiwed about it that's exactly what his response was.  That mistake was made with the game once and they now have a subscriber base to make the same mistake again and do to customers what everyone is angry abuot them once would not make much sense.

 

Well you know if Lucas Arts did not have a part in it they would have taken the entire project for SOE. The good news is todays SWG is getting better,as a recently returned vet I can see it and the future looks bright for SWG now.The OP asks what would it take and my response to this is let them keep improving the game like they are doing now.I do not think they can ever go back to Pre-Cu which I do admit I miss alot,But mainly the Ui is all I miss of the old game and the multiple profs it had. In the end whats been done is done hopefully as the future moves on the game will continue to add better content while bringing back some of the good things the old version had.As for me now I am having a pretty fun time since returning and it brings a nice change to the wow grind I had for the last 2 years:P

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

Depends on what you think the "mistake" is.  He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself.

So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again.  Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch. 

Nope, they just don't "get it" even now.

 

that will never happen and you know it

a) LA has a say in what goes on and has just renewed an IP and contract with them and nothing has ever occured that even hints that LA is unhappy at Sony.   LA has the last word and yet nothing changes, but they are STILL paying the bills.

b) your asking them to make the same mistake twice.  When he was asked about that and yes he was interveiwed about it that's exactly what his response was.  That mistake was made with the game once and they now have a subscriber base to make the same mistake again and do to customers what everyone is angry abuot them once would not make much sense.

 

Fraid you got your "facts" mixed up on "licensing".  SOE pays LA, not the other way around.  And the rumor is that LA has forgave SOE it's "licensing fees" for the last 2 years.

And my 2nd paragraph is not a request for a CHANGE, rather a comment on past history.  SOE has, again, CHANGED SWG in the last year.  From the Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade to current, the game was CHANGED again.  Another NGE, just this time completed in increments.  It's easy for them to justify their actions when they still appearently believe that the CHANGE wasn't the "bad" thing that happened with NGE.

And on the subject of a classic server, that is about the only thing that might even have a chance of re-populating SWG now.  (Oh, I'm not a pre-CU or even a CU vet, I started NGE and had the game I got used to CHANGED on me, also)  It's so clear that even a NGE starter can see it.

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Terranah

They said they didn't care if they lost customers over the NGE, so since they don't care if they lose money, they should have a few precu servers.  Even if no one subscribed the gesture would go along way.

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well it appears LA doesn't agree that those servers are necessary.  YOu see your beef is with LA not Sony your complaining about the wrong company at this point in time. 

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Please share your evidence where SOE said they want to give us classic servers, but LA won't let them.

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

Depends on what you think the "mistake" is.  He apoloigised for "not listening" and "marketing", not the actual CHANGE in and of itself.

So to "fix" a mistake involving a CHANGE, you again, CHANGE the entire game again.  Just do it over the cource of a year instead of 1 massive patch. 

Nope, they just don't "get it" even now.

 

that will never happen and you know it

a) LA has a say in what goes on and has just renewed an IP and contract with them and nothing has ever occured that even hints that LA is unhappy at Sony.   LA has the last word and yet nothing changes, but they are STILL paying the bills.

b) your asking them to make the same mistake twice.  When he was asked about that and yes he was interveiwed about it that's exactly what his response was.  That mistake was made with the game once and they now have a subscriber base to make the same mistake again and do to customers what everyone is angry abuot them once would not make much sense.

 

Analogy time.  You are driving in your car to a friend's house and you turn north which is a wrong turn.  That was a mistake.  Turning around to  head south in the direction of your friend's house is not making the same mistake twice.  It's course correcting to put you back on track.  And what does it matter how much time and gas you spent going the wrong direction if you will never get to where you are going.

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

 

Please share your evidence where SOE said they want to give us classic servers, but LA won't let them.

We also have to look at what the two companies have done. Smed is still right where he is. Ward of LA, the guy that Smed claimed had a lot to do with the NGE, one interview where he was shifting blame, is GONE. Julio was pulled off the project and placed in a place more similar to his last success -- a console, jedi-based game. Immediately upon taking over the project of the Force Unleashed, the date was pushed back, showing PERHAPS he has learned from SOME of the past mistakes.

We'll see how good or bad the Force Unleashed is -- that's HIS chance at redemption.

Once again, note that Smed is still RIGHT where he is, shifting blame as always. Now Blix and company continue to erase players' efforts every few patches, and Blixtev tells them to get over it and deal.

Meanwhile it appears that LA has gone and made a new deal with a more trustworthy company for the next go around, a good move I'd say. I hope, as does almost everyone here, that we get a great game out of it.

Once company has made actual CHANGES in the way they do things, including letting go the man in charge. They have evidently made steps to ensure it won't happen again.

The other has made a weak, nebulous apology and changed nothing in their behavior.

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 
 

Please share your evidence where SOE said they want to give us classic servers, but LA won't let them.

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

 
 

Please share your evidence where SOE said they want to give us classic servers, but LA won't let them.

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still just making it up as you go along, I see. Thanks for trolling by.

 

conversations usualy go like this..

so and so says such and such

the other guy says no its like this instead

you dont have conversations you put people on trial.  Perhaps the better approach would be to "give evidence" in reply with actual information to disprove what I have jsut said instead of what you do which adds nothing to the conversataion and is just silly period.

Originally posted by Fishermage

We also have to look at what the two companies have done. Smed is still right where he is. Ward of LA, the guy that Smed claimed had a lot to do with the NGE, one interview where he was shifting blame, is GONE. Julio was pulled off the project and placed in a place more similar to his last success -- a console, jedi-based game. Immediately upon taking over the project of the Force Unleashed, the date was pushed back, showing PERHAPS he has learned from SOME of the past mistakes.

We'll see how good or bad the Force Unleashed is -- that's HIS chance at redemption.

Once again, note that Smed is still RIGHT where he is, shifting blame as always. Now Blix and company continue to erase players' efforts every few patches, and Blixtev tells them to get over it and deal.

Meanwhile it appears that LA has gone and made a new deal with a more trustworthy company for the next go around, a good move I'd say. I hope, as does almost everyone here, that we get a great game out of it.

Once company has made actual CHANGES in the way they do things, including letting go the man in charge. They have evidently made steps to ensure it won't happen again.

The other has made a weak, nebulous apology and changed nothing in their behavior.

You have to wonder why then if smedley is so evil if after all this time he is still in charge.  He is a part of a coorporation.   He is the CEO which is an elected position usually.  Obvious his board of directors who are capable of unseating him think otherswise.   Unlesss of course maybe he actualy holds enough shares to control the entire sony corporation, but I dont think so . 

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

 
 

Please share your evidence where SOE said they want to give us classic servers, but LA won't let them.

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still just making it up as you go along, I see. Thanks for trolling by.

 

 

conversations usualy go like this..

so and so says such and such

the other guy says no its like this instead

you dont have conversations you put people on trial.  Perhaps the better approach would be to "give evidence" in reply with actual information to disprove what I have jsut said instead of what you do which adds nothing to the conversataion and is just silly period.

When you jump into threads and tell people they are wrong, you should at least try to present information that substantiates your position.  You have not done that in this thread a single time.  You have dismissed what Fisher has posted to substantiate his position (what the folks actually involved in what is being discussed have said about it) because it goes against your 'feelings'.  It isn't a trial or court, it is mainly one side presenting their opinion backed by facts (Fisher) and the other side repeating the same nonsense, which contradicts all the known information from the folks actually involved in what is being discussed, backed by nothing (you).

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

 
 

Please share your evidence where SOE said they want to give us classic servers, but LA won't let them.

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still just making it up as you go along, I see. Thanks for trolling by.

 

 

conversations usualy go like this..

so and so says such and such

the other guy says no its like this instead

you dont have conversations you put people on trial.  Perhaps the better approach would be to "give evidence" in reply with actual information to disprove what I have jsut said instead of what you do which adds nothing to the conversataion and is just silly period.

Huh?  So you can make any statement you like and it's up to someone to disprove it?  I believe that was done via SOE on NGE also.  It is commonly called , here, lies.  I had no idea that SOE was force-feeding the kool-aid, now.

And, I can certainly disprove your theroy.  On a personal tel-con with Lorin Jameson, SOE, he told me that they HAD brought up CU on their internal servers with a "classic server" in mind to do.  The reason he gave me for not doing it, is, CU was "buggy" and would require a lot of dev time to fix.  He did say that pre-CU was not an option but did not say why.

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by ummax

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

 
 

Please share your evidence where SOE said they want to give us classic servers, but LA won't let them.

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still just making it up as you go along, I see. Thanks for trolling by.

 

 

conversations usualy go like this..

so and so says such and such

the other guy says no its like this instead

you dont have conversations you put people on trial.  Perhaps the better approach would be to "give evidence" in reply with actual information to disprove what I have jsut said instead of what you do which adds nothing to the conversataion and is just silly period.

 

When you jump into threads and tell people they are wrong, you should at least try to present information that substantiates your position.  You have not done that in this thread a single time.  You have dismissed what Fisher has posted to substantiate his position (what the folks actually involved in what is being discussed have said about it) because it goes against your 'feelings'.  It isn't a trial or court, it is mainly one side presenting their opinion backed by facts (Fisher) and the other side repeating the same nonsense, which contradicts all the known information from the folks actually involved in what is being discussed, backed by nothing (you).

 

I haven't told anyone they are wrong and actualy no one in this thread has presented any "facts" just information to the best of their ability.  (just one guy seems to demand more information then needed on a regular basis in a discussion thread).  I"m sorry but not everyone thinks the way this small group does and I"m habitually known for not giving into "group think" which is basicaly what goes on in this board.  I think for myself and "the evidence" such as it is says differently.  I have given my point of view and that is all there is to it nothing more and nothing less.   I simply asked why does no one put blame on LA ... see now you said you do ,but you dont.   This entire thread is only about what would it take to get you guys back.  Given what has gone on and how you guys adress the issue.  I would say that nothing anyone does in relation to that game as long as its hosted and maintained by sony corporation will get you guys to play it again because of utter total hatred towards a company with absolutely no forgivness even in light of the apologies issued and the fact that the game is in fact improving.   NO classic servers would help nothing.   Because this is not an I hate what was done to SWG forum this is in fact an "i hate sony forum" period.  I dont care what you think its okay to think that way.  I dont expect to convince anyone of anything.  Unlike those here who take this ooo so seriously I truly don't.    I just want to know  why no one places any heat at all on LA they had the opportunity to not renew the IP just recently yet guess what they did?  IN light of that move made by LA all I can think is they in fact AGREE with what is going on and are no better or worse then sony.    (at the very least they are not particularly concerned with what has transpired in the past or they would have done something about it and had the opportunity to drive a steak through the heart of SOE just recently but did not)

Originally posted by Fishermage

We also have to look at what the two companies have done. Smed is still right where he is. Ward of LA, the guy that Smed claimed had a lot to do with the NGE, one interview where he was shifting blame, is GONE. Julio was pulled off the project and placed in a place more similar to his last success -- a console, jedi-based game. Immediately upon taking over the project of the Force Unleashed, the date was pushed back, showing PERHAPS he has learned from SOME of the past mistakes.

We'll see how good or bad the Force Unleashed is -- that's HIS chance at redemption.

Once again, note that Smed is still RIGHT where he is, shifting blame as always. Now Blix and company continue to erase players' efforts every few patches, and Blixtev tells them to get over it and deal.

Meanwhile it appears that LA has gone and made a new deal with a more trustworthy company for the next go around, a good move I'd say. I hope, as does almost everyone here, that we get a great game out of it.

Once company has made actual CHANGES in the way they do things, including letting go the man in charge. They have evidently made steps to ensure it won't happen again.

The other has made a weak, nebulous apology and changed nothing in their behavior.

Wait so Julio gets a pass if Force Unleashed is any good ?

I think you're kind of using a bit of selective forgiveness in this post , Based on being a fan of Star Wars.Smedly is as responsible for NGE as he is for EQ2 and VG , Which arguably are decent games that have both been turned around(According to general internet information) .He's also as responsible for the improvements made to NGE you claim to have been made(the latest game update , Story teller etc..). Yet you say nothing about SOE has changed ? I'd argue their reputation is improving in the eyes of many(not mine).

L.A. may have got rid of  Ward, I doubt that has much to do with galaxies however. The many failures L.A. released while he was in control were a direct cause (Deadlines are more impotant than quality ring a bell?). Star wars as a whole is of questionable quiality these days , L.A. is far from redeemed in my book as is SOE, They both have leaps and bounds of ground to cover before anything changes in my overall outlook of both companies.

Originally posted by Malickiebloo

Originally posted by Fishermage

We also have to look at what the two companies have done. Smed is still right where he is. Ward of LA, the guy that Smed claimed had a lot to do with the NGE, one interview where he was shifting blame, is GONE. Julio was pulled off the project and placed in a place more similar to his last success -- a console, jedi-based game. Immediately upon taking over the project of the Force Unleashed, the date was pushed back, showing PERHAPS he has learned from SOME of the past mistakes.

We'll see how good or bad the Force Unleashed is -- that's HIS chance at redemption.

Once again, note that Smed is still RIGHT where he is, shifting blame as always. Now Blix and company continue to erase players' efforts every few patches, and Blixtev tells them to get over it and deal.

Meanwhile it appears that LA has gone and made a new deal with a more trustworthy company for the next go around, a good move I'd say. I hope, as does almost everyone here, that we get a great game out of it.

Once company has made actual CHANGES in the way they do things, including letting go the man in charge. They have evidently made steps to ensure it won't happen again.

The other has made a weak, nebulous apology and changed nothing in their behavior.

Wait so Julio gets a pass if Force Unleashed is any good ?

I think you're kind of using a bit of selective forgiveness in this post , Based on being a fan of Star Wars.Smedly is as responsible for NGE as he is for EQ2 and VG , Which arguably are decent games that have both been turned around(According to general internet information) .He's also as responsible for the improvements made to NGE you claim to have been made(the latest game update , Story teller etc..). Yet you say nothing about SOE has changed ? I'd argue their reputation is improving in the eyes of many(not mine).

L.A. may have got rid of  Ward, I doubt that has much to do with galaxies however. The many failures L.A. released while he was in control were a direct cause (Deadlines are more impotant than quality ring a bell?). Star wars as a whole is of questionable quiality these days , L.A. is far from redeemed in my book as is SOE, They both have leaps and bounds of ground to cover before anything changes in my overall outlook of both companies.

This is probably the most reasonable response on the issue in the entire thread.   I respect you for your clearheadedness on the issue and wish more people were as honest as this.