Originally posted by ArcAngel3

When asked about quality concerns, this post reported Smed saying that people would play the game even if it was full of bugs and incomplete because it's StarWars. 

And I would believe he would say such a thing.  Heck I would have said it too. 

It's STAR WARS and what other Sci-Fi MMO [was] out in the market?  None (for the most part).  To play a Star Wars MMO is an honor and those pathetic gamers should worship us for letting them have the privilege.  We are gods, we...  oppsss sorry, I was going on a Smed Ego Trip.

However, should I have said such a thing (which I would have), I would have quickly added afterwards, "But let us no go in that direction or rely on that.  It will bite us on the ass later on."

Originally posted by Mackerni

I wonder what the real original SWG was like...

We'll probably never know.

You mean the unreleased version they were toying with, or the released version they messed up with the NGE?

Originally posted by Thradar

Originally posted by xPaladin

  This is an excellent point. Everything about Star Wars in the 2000s -- mainly the prequels -- are directly aimed at the kiddos.

 

Hate to break it to you, but the Star Wars from the 70s and 80s was also aimed at "kiddos.".  It's probably why grownups where so bitter about the prequel movies.  They never realized the grew up and were watching them from an adult perspective.

 

 I think the orginal movies had a larger appeal then most of us might know. I say that from the point of view my mother took me to see the orginals and she is in her early 60s now. Admitly she is not into games but to me the orginal movies did not feel rushed in its telling of the story. The new ones just did not feel right almsot like they were seeing how fast they could tell it. Again this is my point of view.

 As far as there being a different version I do not know I had no idea the game was out till I saw it in best buy.

Originally posted by ketrine
 

You mean the unreleased version they were toying with, or the released version they messed up with the NGE?

The two years of programming they deleted and replaced with, with the pre-CU that was the original game of SWG. If the pre-CU only took 18 months to make, I wonder what the game would have been like if the ORIGINAL 2-YEAR game was never revamped or destroyed in anyway.

I have a feeling that it would probably have been the best MMOG on the market right now if they had stuck to their guns about the original product. Too bad they didn't.

... oh. And Star Wars? It's not directed towards children or adults. It's directed towards both.

Originally posted by Mackerni

Originally posted by ketrine
 

You mean the unreleased version they were toying with, or the released version they messed up with the NGE?

 

The two years of programming they deleted and replaced with, with the pre-CU that was the original game of SWG. If the pre-CU only took 18 months to make, I wonder what the game would have been like if the ORIGINAL 2-YEAR game was never revamped or destroyed in anyway.

I have a feeling that it would probably have been the best MMOG on the market right now if they had stuck to their guns about the original product. Too bad they didn't.

... oh. And Star Wars? It's not directed towards children or adults. It's directed towards both.

You know, as I read all of this, I get the impression that Smed and his pals kept rewriting the game, so that each time people got to play something that was unfinished and broken as hell.  It seems like the original version of the game was scrapped after maybe a couple years of development, and then something was rushed out unfinished.  Then it seems that work was being done to fix this, but all of that was scrapped and the CU was rushed out unfinished.  Then it seems that all of that was scrapped by the NGE which was probably the most rushed and broken version of the game to date.  Then, to make matters worse, they finally decided to stick with one game, and picked the most broken one of all that has core bugs that can't be fixed 0_o.

When I see all of this, it's very easy to imagine Smed counting on the StarWars name to bring in some customers.  I'm not sure what else he could possibly be counting on...besides misleading marketting.

P.S. thanks Obee for the clarification regarding the links.

Originally posted by bluealien1

If Smed falls off of a bridge in the middle of the woods does it make a sound?

Depends - which sniper got to him first?

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

You know, as I read all of this, I get the impression that Smed and his pals kept rewriting the game, so that each time people got to play something that was unfinished and broken as hell.  It seems like the original version of the game was scrapped after maybe a couple years of development, and then something was rushed out unfinished.  Then it seems that work was being done to fix this, but all of that was scrapped and the CU was rushed out unfinished.  Then it seems that all of that was scrapped by the NGE which was probably the most rushed and broken version of the game to date.  Then, to make matters worse, they finally decided to stick with one game, and picked the most broken one of all that has core bugs that can't be fixed 0_o.

When I see all of this, it's very easy to imagine Smed counting on the StarWars name to bring in some customers.  I'm not sure what else he could possibly be counting on...besides misleading marketting.

P.S. thanks Obee for the clarification regarding the links.

Let's take a look at the informatoin (provided by Wikipedia):

On 16 March 2000, LucasArts Entertainment announced a partnership with Verant Interactive Inc. and Sony Online Entertainment to create the first massively multiplayer Star Wars online role-playing game. (Note that they usually do not release this information unless they are past the concept phase)

The announcement included an expected release date some time in 2001 and that the game would take place during the original trilogy era.

LucasArts officially announced the brand name of the game to be Star Wars Galaxies on 29 November 2000.^[3] The announcement claimed the first round of testing for Star Wars Galaxies was expected to start in late 2001 which would push back the official release date to an unknown time. The game's official information site was launched on 30 November 2000 in conjunction with SOE and featured frequently asked questions about the game and message boards fielded by members of the development team. (If the the highlighted part doesn't sound suspicious, I don't know what does)

On 17 May 2001, even before the game went into public beta testing, the first expansion's development was announced.

Verant began accepting applications from users in May 2002 who were interested in participating in a closed beta test for SWG. The closed beta test would begin in July 2002.

LucasArts officially confirmed a release date of 15 April, 2003.^[14][15] They also announced on 20 December 2002 that the ground-based component of Star Wars Galaxies would be called An Empire Divided and that the game's online community had grown to over 400,000 users since its inception in November 2000.

An Empire Divided would later be delayed to an unknown time,^[16] but on 17 June 2003, LucasArts confirmed Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided would be released on 26 June 2003.

So this is what I'm guessing: they started to program the original game that the public did NOT see in the start of the new decade. After two years, they scrapped all the original code and quickly rushed a new version of the game, what would be known as the pre-CU, at around the beginning of 2002. They then made a game out of six months time and released it on a closed beta test. They pushed the game's official release date another year over that date.

Here's another good reason to suspect this (from the same WIki page):

"A new official site was also released on the same day that put more of an emphasis behind the community of the game. It included new screen shots, movies, an updated FAQ, concept art, development team member's profiles, features about the game, and a new forum.^[7] The site reached 100,000 users by December 2001."

So they were planning this out all this time - I believed they scrapped the original game, which due to the popularity of EverQuest, I believe was more like it at the time (since EQ didn't put as much emphasis behind the community of the game as did SWG, and the fact that it was Verant who programmed both games). And because of it, two years of code was lost. Then again, it could have been EQ with a Star Wars skin on it, but I don't know if I would have liked that or not because I never played the original EverQuest...

The original (pre-release) code could have been programmed for eight years now (WoW was programmed for seven, remember), the pre-CU code could have been programmed for six years by now, the CU could have been programmed for about four years, and the NGE for about three and a half. Even if the order was like this: NGE, pre-release, CU, pre-CU, the NGE itself would have had EIGHT YEARS OF UPDATES (if it never got revamped at all). There would be a TON of CONTENT. But once you switch from a player-driven galaxy to a programmer-driven galaxy - once you switch that code out you lose a LOT of what that original game was, if not ALL of it. EVEN IF Star Wars Galaxies was just NGE, if they spent the EIGHT years in the same productivity as the seven years it took to program World of Warcraft, SWG NGE would probably be a decent game! And they wouldn't have alienated so many people like us vets who, despite tolerating all the bugs pre-CU had, could just not handle the SHOOTING THROUGH WALLS and the CONSTANT CRASHING when it was released.

*rant off*

Having been a SOE customer since I started EQ in 01, I think the Smed hate was more deserved in the 02 or 03 up until 06 timeline.

Which just so happens to be when SOE was still doing pretty well...even with WOW around. They released crappy expansions, charged us for everything, kicked our dogs etc etc.

Since SOE has lost so many customers, I have watched them make EQ2 better, release more polished content for EQ, and folks say Vanguard has gotten better as well.

Even Matrix gets some luv once in a while. Dont know what to say about the mess called SWG. That trainwreck has never been right.

Granted this is the Vet forum...where if you dont hate SOE/Smed then you are a shill/fanboi/random insult.

All things aside...when you see things like the 2 free months they gave this summer, along with free expansions to bring you up to date if you re-subscribe...I think Smed is bending over to get us players back.

If I was to take up playing any MMO again, chances are it would be EQ...and run All-Access to have other games I could mess around in also.

Unless Bioware is making a SW MMO though, I doubt I ever play another MMO again. Will stick with stuff like NWN(BG, Planescape, IWD), and maybe some of the super-hero/Star Wars RPGs if they decide to make more of em. Talking stuff like KOTOR and the Activision stuff(Xmen legends and Ultimate Alliance).

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I read a post the other day that mentioned an interview with Smed.  Apparently the game was revamped  once entirely even before release, and the original game was developed in what appeared to be a very short time.  When asked about quality concerns, this post reported Smed saying that people would play the game even if it was full of bugs and incomplete because it's StarWars. 

I can't find the post that mentioned all of this.  Did he really say that?  Anyone got a link?

The stuff you're quoting is from the "CBS Mailbag" incidents which happened after the NGE.  Nothing I've seen, and I have looked as far back as I could, indicates they scrapped an original plan and went in with a new one 14 months or whatever from release.

They did rush the game out, not early, it was supposed to be released the previous year, but unfinished.  They just couldn't seem to finish the game.  Beta players protested they needed to not release the game as it wasn't ready but they went ahead anyway.  Koster has been quoted as saying he did alot of last minute changing himself, and you've seen Rubenfeld say he produced the Jedi system in a couple of weeks after launch.

What you really always seem to have with this game is a huge disagreement at every step at all levels as to how the game should play out.  No wonder it was/is the messy messy thing we've seen.  It never really had a chance.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Having been a SOE customer since I started EQ in 01, I think the Smed hate was more deserved in the 02 or 03 up until 06 timeline.

Which just so happens to be when SOE was still doing pretty well...even with WOW around. They released crappy expansions, charged us for everything, kicked our dogs etc etc.

Since SOE has lost so many customers, I have watched them make EQ2 better, release more polished content for EQ, and folks say Vanguard has gotten better as well.

Even Matrix gets some luv once in a while. Dont know what to say about the mess called SWG. That trainwreck has never been right.

Granted this is the Vet forum...where if you dont hate SOE/Smed then you are a shill/fanboi/random insult.

All things aside...when you see things like the 2 free months they gave this summer, along with free expansions to bring you up to date if you re-subscribe...I think Smed is bending over to get us players back.

Yeah. I was looking around at some of the new features they added after NGE and some of them look pretty impressive and unique. I am tempted to go back, but there's still something that's holding me back.

THERE'S STILL NO ITEM DECAY