It seems that WAR is primed to bring in PVP players to the game and even those who are interested in just the public quests.  The lore is well known to most people, and to say this is the most hyped MMORPG release in recent times is an understatement.  DAOC fans are drooling to play this reincarnation of their lost love while those who are jaded with WoW are willing to succumb to the allure of a new experience! With that all said, and with momentum seemingly on WAR's side (for the better) what could possible stop this game from taking off?

The combat.

The first question that must come up in some of your minds is are you insane?  Actually this has been debated back and forth nearly for a year.  A lot of the debates degenerated with one side calling the players who liked fast paced combat as FPS kiddies while the other side were being(those wanting slower combat) called legally retarded individuals who were better off trying to resurrect pong from its deep grave.  I think the combat of a game (especially of a PVP game) is very important so that it is fun, fluid, and keeps you entertained.   I will point out that I enjoy both slow and fast paced combat games.  But for a PVP game I prefer faster paced combat because it is far more exciting in my opinion.  And I do not need the time that slow combat affords me to make quick decisions that should be coming naturally to me based on how well I know my avatar.  Tetris is a perfect example of a game that shows that over time you can learn to keep up with a faster pace based on experience. 

Someone asked a few months ago if the combat of the game would be different when the game ships?  Some argued yes while others argued that a new miracle build (Dark and Light reference) is on its way.  I told that person that what you see is what you "get".  Well with launch near I am taking a wild guess to say the combat is what you see in the videos released.  There is no miracle build or vast improvement on the way in my opinion.   I think it was a mistake to market the game towards WoW gamers and to cater to them so much because the combat of WoW is vastly different than what we have seen in the videos released for WAR.    WoW's combat may not be as frantic as a Korean MMORPG like L2 but it is slightly at a faster pace than a CoX.  Can the combat of an MMORPG make or break a game for some people?  Absolutely this can be a game breaker and it would not surprise me if this is the case.  I anticipate a lot of WoW gamers first complaint will be the combat is too slow.  Who would have thunk it that the one thing that may be holding back a PVP MMORPG like WAR in the end may be the combat?  That would be the ultimate irony.

Sorry Hoplites, not to be disrespectful, but as soon as you said "The combat" I skipped the post. The point is instantly moot because combat speed is a matter of personal opinion. From the vids, the combat looks a little slow; however, from the new vids (Youtube and such) it looks on-par with WoW. Then again, you could never have liked WoW's combat. It could have looked incredibly awesome in videos, just the right speed and requiring strategy but not too much, but then when you played it you found it was quite different.

I do think that combat might be the only thing holding this game back, if indeed it's too slow, but I doubt that it is. Best case scenario is that once NDA lifts there will be vids which actually show people who know what they're doing.

Alright, first off, a LOT of people are not familiar with Warhammer lore.

And second, combat in WoW is only "fast" because it's a spam fest. There really isn't that much strategy once you get down the best order to spam your attacks in.

We haven't seen really high level WAR combat where people have a ton of abilities. The abilities in WAR also seem much more reactive, different things will be better in different situations, you'll have to pay more attention than in WoW. Especially for Tanks, you'll be moving around trying to block other players, using Taunt (imagine that, a tank where taunt is actually useful outside of PVE), and doing other CC stuff.

Anyways, just saying I think you should get your facts straight.

Economy, pve and crafting/housing will decide the faith of the game in the long run cause PVP will be there pretty much close to perfect.

Originally posted by daemon

Economy, pve and crafting/housing will decide the faith of the game in the long run cause PVP will be there pretty much close to perfect.

Actually what decides the faith is content on max level and no major bugs in the game... and AFAIK war has no major bugs at the momemt but I didn't play the beta yet (30 minutes don't count hehe) and if i did i couldn't say if it has due to the NDA so more or less i'm speaking out of my rear here...

As for max level content... we have PQs, dungeons and RvR... as well as the ToK... so a lot of stuff to do on max level...

As for combat... you know... chess has a great combat system... and it's turn based and slow... but it makes you THINK instead of just press the same buttons over and over again like in wow... and i think you have have both... speed and tactics... watch a speed chess match once hehe...

Originally posted by daemon

Economy, pve and crafting/housing will decide the faith of the game in the long run cause PVP will be there pretty much close to perfect.

What frigging PvE or Economy or crafting are you talking about? I am playing this game for the PvP/RvR, I don't give a rat's ass about crafting or PvE. Economy? There will be a limited economy, also limited PvE and limited crafting. The main focus (~80%) will be on PvP. Warhammer is a PvP/RvR game, stop trying to turn this game into WoWhammer!

I think what he meant is that because the game is so PvP oriented, and he did say that the PvP is near perfect, that what will determine the fate of the game is if they add enough crafting, PVE, and economy to bring in the gamers that aren't into PvP. If there isn't enough of this other, than the game might not be a 'perfect' MMO in mix, and will likely bring in fewer subscribers.. And as a business you have to go for numbers in the subscribers department.

The combat of today is completely different from the combat of a month ago,t hey have made HUGE strides in that direction.  IT really does pay to play the game before commenting on it.

WAR is most assuredly not even close to perfect, and I do not mean that in the sense that nothing can be perfect, everyone's tastes are different, etc.

It is, however, damn good and perhaps as close as any MMORPG has gotten yet.

Originally posted by Ender4

The combat of today is completely different from the combat of a month ago,t hey have made HUGE strides in that direction.  IT really does pay to play the game before commenting on it.

more like it's completely different from a week or so ago

Couldn't be worse than WoW. Hell, even AoC's limited, classically glitchy combat was more fun than WoW's to me.

Seal of Command - STUN! - Justice! - Crusader Strike - dance around, do it again with Avenging Wrath up.

Frostbolt, frostbolt, frostbolt, frost nova, jump, jump, frostbolt, frostbolt, blink, frostbolt, win - ambushed by Druid in catform for almost 4k, struggle, struggle, lose.

Or just do the respectable thing and keep questing while those open-world PvP objectives are being dominated again by a rogue, a hunter, and a roguehealertank class made by God. Yep. Those three places completely isolated from the towns and actual areas of interest covered in flags sure are important for about... 5% extra killing ability.

I'm just happy there won't be any gimped form of or at least overpowered form of becoming randomly invisible in a lighted room with no shadows - oh, about those shadows? Warhammer actually has 'em.

Originally posted by MephistoXV

I'm just happy there won't be any gimped form of or at least overpowered form of becoming randomly invisible in a lighted room with no shadows - oh, about those shadows? Warhammer actually has 'em.

Um, yes there is a gimped form of stealth? :)

As for shadows, there's dynamic shadowing coming in Wotlk so that's a dated argument ^^

Fair enough. Even if there is, I can't see anything but the weakest of melee DPS classes bothering it. And it could never be like WoW's horridly retarded stunlocking. If a rogue can burn you down without letting you move or cast anything but Blink or a spell that makes you the Holy Spirit In A Bubble...

Truthfully I expect WoW with shadows to look like WoW without shadows. Regardless of it now, I've been blinded by the shapes and shades of land. Does sound interesting but it's not much to me now. Thinking a cartoon with shading only becomes wierd anime.

EDIT: I reviewed the video among others and I can say it's pretty much the same thing only with an option to see if you want super-distinct shadows of everything solid displayed on the ground depending on where the sun that changes colors is. It's nice, and fluid. But after all the beta videos I'm not impressed. I feel like a nay-sayer and by now I think I have said my fill.

Well, I came from daoc... to me WoW rogue stunlocking (as a hunter anyway) was once every blue moon and only worked when my cooldowns were down.

Contrast that to falling to the floor instantly in Daoc to one-two hits from a stealther or arrow I never even saw coming nor half the time had time to even see afterwards... I'll take stunlock for five thanks :)

Suppose that'd be better. But as I've not played DAoC but never scoffed it - tried the Trial, not bad for an older MMO by our standards - I can't say much. Never really liked WoW's Rogues to begin with unless I was on the side of all the money for once.

Oh, part to my pain of stealth and rogues comes from the fact most of their abilities will have a chance of limiting your movement somehow. Poison in general and then stuns based on how much you love shiv.

And I looked around and I don't think Warhammer is gonna have stealth unless they made a last minute snap decision.

perfect?.... I'm sorry but you're not feeding your brain with enough information...

Sure the game is very very good for the zergPvP-oriented crowd... but that's about it :)
 

There are games out there that do EVERYTHING else much much better... :)
 

Originally posted by Xtort

Originally posted by daemon

Economy, pve and crafting/housing will decide the faith of the game in the long run cause PVP will be there pretty much close to perfect.

 

What frigging PvE or Economy or crafting are you talking about? I am playing this game for the PvP/RvR, I don't give a rat's ass about crafting or PvE. Economy? There will be a limited economy, also limited PvE and limited crafting. The main focus (~80%) will be on PvP. Warhammer is a PvP/RvR game, stop trying to turn this game into WoWhammer!

In fact, that's just a marketing bubble. WAR is not a PvP/RvR game primary. WAR is a PvE game.

PvP game requires much more kinds of interaction between players, and not just combat. PvP game must contain diplomacy, politics, guild vs guild, body looting (or limited BL), war declaration, and an actual freedom what to attack.

Games like WAR where you have two fixed sides fightning each other with no chance to change anything and basically just "grind" and kill other players to get some points for your faction are not really PvP. Unless you have a real interaction with other players, it's not PvP. Combat is very easy to replace with bots, but other player interaction is impossible to supplement. And it's left out completely in WAR, therefore being a PvE game.  

Is the NDA lifted? if it isn't some of you could be in big trouble...

No one I know cares about this game, and all of them like PvP and only play for PvP. I'll only be trying it if it has a free trial, and that's without ever planning on buying it anyway.

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Originally posted by UncertaintyP
No one I know cares about this game, and all of them like PvP and only play for PvP. I'll only be trying it if it has a free trial, and that's without ever planning on buying it anyway.

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It's a RvR game...