MMORPG.com Vangaurd Correspondent Warren Bennett pens this editorial about what drew him back into the world of Vanguard after leaving the game due to an unsatisifying earlier experience.

I will start out by saying that “once upon a time even I” considered the purchase of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes to be my worst video game purchase ever. That's right, as “in my whole life I have never had a more disappointing experience.” The reason wasn't with the game itself, the core game I really enjoyed. In fact, I wanted to be able to get past the unfinished feel of Vanguard and be able to play the game I wanted to love. However, as a person that played the open beta and stayed for two months after, I just couldn't find my way past the bugs and glitches that seemed to be everywhere. Couple that with the drama that seemed to surround the development team and I just felt, for the first time in a long time, that I had been burned on a purchase. Vanguard was uninstalled and tucked back in to the case it came in and thrown among the unsorted box of games.

Read it all here.

And, you can have it ALL to yourself.

And if you think V:SoH was/is bad, you should have been there for the Anarchy Online launch.

Population in VG is ok, I meet people all the time and it is easy to get a group if you want to. Of course the world is huge so even more players would be great, but you won't feel alone in VG.

I was there for the AO launch :) but nowadays AO is a really good game that has aged well!

I'm sorry, but I found that article a bit...well..."meh"

I think it might be an idea to say what you found was good about the game. The actual 'about the game now' bit was about 10-15% of the article. I'm not sure what the brief was, or even if there was one, but I don't think the article really tells anyone in a similar position as you were, exactly what's good about VG.

Just for the record, the character models are due to come out after SOE's Fan Fayre - so mid-late August.

I'm sorry if I come off over-critical, that's not my intent. It's just that VG gets precious little frontpage coverage on top MMO sites like this one and when it does I'd hope that the article really explores just how far Sony (love-em-or-hate-em) have brought the shambles Brad left them.

Thanks for the respones ;) In the end this is the story about how I came back to Vanguard.  I'm not really trying to sell it to anyone, just my impressions.  However I will keep some of the comments in mind in the pieces I write in the tuture.  BTW there is a very active and good community attached to the game; so it doesn't feel like i am playing by myself.

The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.

I ain't coming back to Vanguard. I did that mistake like everyone, I bought the game, installed it, looked at it... it was ugly, gtlichy, sucky, and i uninstalled. And now I'm waiting for a certain 18th september.

I just wanted to echo the writer of this article.  While I didn't even play Vanguard on release or beta due to the bad word around the net, I did start up an account about a month and a half ago after severe case of WoW burnout.  I've not regretted it a bit.  Vanguard is a very pretty world (imho, prettier even than LoTRO). 

The gameplay is unique and while the author's complaint regarding character models is valid, that will likely be fixed with the next game update later this month.

I think you are doing yourself a disservice not giving it another shot. it is a great game these days.  

Well...that game coming out on the 18th of September is a completely different kind of game.

Vanguard is a PvE game...always was and always will be.  The PvP world is getting no love there and most of the Community is OK with that...as long as the PvE game keeps improving.

If your looking for the best PvE game out there...Vanguard is it.

Originally posted by oTinyo

I'm sorry, but I found that article a bit...well..."meh"

I think it might be an idea to say what you found was good about the game. The actual 'about the game now' bit was about 10-15% of the article. I'm not sure what the brief was, or even if there was one, but I don't think the article really tells anyone in a similar position as you were, exactly what's good about VG.

Just for the record, the character models are due to come out after SOE's Fan Fayre - so mid-late August.

I'm sorry if I come off over-critical, that's not my intent. It's just that VG gets precious little frontpage coverage on top MMO sites like this one and when it does I'd hope that the article really explores just how far Sony (love-em-or-hate-em) have brought the shambles Brad left them.

I agree. I'm sorry but that article had very little in it that was worth reading. OK so you spent a long section of your life dreaming about a game that was essentially crap. Now its not as crap but still not brilliant. Well.....ummm.....thanks for that.

ps. I also reinstalled the game several months ago and uninstalled it yet again a few days after that. It still seemed like a very weak and unfinished game to me and of course the character models were still as ugly as ever. I might have a look again though once the new models are implemented and if they still look stupid then its goodbye to Vanguard for good.

I also came back due to SOE's kindness(?) of free play time, and I am glad I did. Even though I've had no problems finding groups, I would suggest finding a good guild with which to adventure.  As far as the beauty of Vanguard,  pictures speak louder.

Originally posted by oTinyo

I'm sorry, but I found that article a bit...well..."meh"

Really this article was completly useless. He starts off saying he was playing on an ubber comp. Well great, one of the biggest complaints has been about performance...so that's use full =P.

He mentions a few things he doesn't like about the game. Then, that what he likes about the game out weighs the bad...such as? It sounded a lot like he had a dead line to meet and didn't even play the game and wrote a vague article based upon what he has read from the forums.

It was a very well written article, I just believe it should have went over more about the game (although I'm sure your future pieces will do so).

Besides that, very well written!

-Mike

I actually enjoyed the read, because his story is almost identical to mine.

I'd have to agree about the articles content.  While I agree with every word you wrote you didnt really go into much depth.  You made no mention of the new riftway system an entire subject in itself, nor even did you mention the flying mounts that you can rent for as little as 25 copper! (and thats just two off the top of my head) But its like you just gave up at the end and left us with a cryptic line designed to what, maybe pull others in to see what the fuss was all about? a bit of an anti-climax.

Ive been back on VG for nearly two months now, and looking forward to seing the new models and the free trial island.  This is actually more like weeks away now than months or years.

I would enjoy reading a follow up article after GU6 ;)

Originally posted by OBK1

Population in VG is ok, I meet people all the time and it is easy to get a group if you want to. Of course the world is huge so even more players would be great, but you won't feel alone in VG.

I was there for the AO launch :) but nowadays AO is a really good game that has aged well!

QFT..

A bad launch does not always equal complete failure.. Not every one is so quick to hang the watchman.. Funcom was forgiven for AO as it became a very good game, Vangaurd will more than likely follow the same path to success.. Even if the Mmorpg.com majority would hate to see this happen.

"Anarchy Online has gone on to win over 20 international awards including "Best Multiplayer Game of Show" by ECTS in 2001, and "Best Massively Multiplayer Game" by PC Gamer in 2002.^["

I as well tried Vanguard once more about 1 month ago and I am enjoying much more now then ever before.  Now if I wasn't paying for a Station pass at SOE which covers my other MMOs, I don't think I would have even considered paying extra to try out a game that I was so disappointed in so long ago.  Nonetheless even though I have no Guild and very few friends playing it, I do log in when I need that quiet MMO time doing some random quest stuff and so on, and it is the absolutely stunning "you see it you can go to it" aspect of Vanguard that I love the most.  It is so vast, so large so big that I never feel closed in as I did in Age of Conan.  Here I want to go there and I can go to it.  I can see far and beyond long distances and know that hey are reachable and touchable.  No invisible walls to stop me form running here and there which was the worst aspect of AoC and some other MMOs.

I am not willing to give Vanguard my complete attention just yet but I am also not willing to give up on it once more yet, especially when the new character modules that will soon be coming out.  Heck this game has tons of potential, hopefully one day (if it ins't already too late) will reach what it always hoped for......A great PVE MMO!

Thanks for giving the game another shot and writing an honest article!  It's great to see some more Vanguard love on MMORPG!

Soo.. whats new?

I quit a few months after release, because all my other friends quit, and I don't like solo.

I have a few character, but I *may* create another one, if there are people around. Or something new to test.

Why I sould return to VG, theres something for me, there?

Teiman, if you are unsure just hang on a bit and the trial island should be out (late august/early september). Then you could try it for free and with an influx of new players.

LONG POST WARNING!
 

First up my system specs:

Abit AB9 Mobo
Intel C2D E6600 @ 2.8 GHz
4 Gb DDR2 800 MHz RAM
Nvidia 8800 GTX 768 Mb
320 Gb SATA 2 7200 RPM HD
19" LG Flatron L1917S LCD Flatpanel (1280 x 1024 @ 75 MHz)
MS Windows XP Pro 32 SP2

Most of this post is a copy/paste from one I made a couple of weeks ago on the AoC forums, but it is relevant to this discussion so here it is.  Before the copy/paste, a little bit of my Vanguard background.
 
I got into the Vanguard Beta late on in its development and despite misgivings about the general state of the game, I purchased it at release and subbed for three months. The game was basically unplayable for me. I should have known to expect this but I was hoping for 'The Miracle Patch', needless to say that didnt happen. I would CTD or even hit the BSOD up to 7 times an hour, which made grouping with my guildies impossible.

Bugs and graphical glitches were running rampant, falling through the world was a personal favourite as well as the aforementioned CTD's which always seemed to happen while in combat, which meant logging back in to being dead with no gravestone so you had to take a sizeable XP hit. To sum up, the stability/performance on this game at launch was shocking. I returned to the game in September 2007 to check on its progress and although some minor advancements had been made it was still dreadful.

On to the rip from my other post.

"I am still subscribed to AoC atm, but if I hadnt bought and registered a 60 day timecard along with the game at launch, I would probably be giving it a couple of months to settle down a bit.
 
I was considering resubscribing to Vanguard to play alongside AoC for the 'wide-open' feel and because it was getting rave reviews from returnees on this site.  I even posted in the Vanguard section asking some questions about the state of the game now and I was encouraged with the responses I recieved, the game seemed to have turned the corner.

So I was delighted yesterday when I recieved notification of the Free Veteran Trial for Vanguard SOH.

I reinstalled the game from the original discs and went through a lengthy 3 hours of patching.  I fired the game up and decided to start over on Halgar as there is a guild of peeps from this very site playing there.  I rolled-up a Thestran Human Ranger and was a little disappointed by the lack of customisation available now, but I thought, oh what the hell and entered the world of Telon for my 3rd and last time.

The first thing I noticed the graphics didnt seem as good as they were before (yes, I did all the relevant tweaks and adjustments for my system), now maybe this is because I have been spoiled by AoC, but really the world just looked wishy-washy and lifeless. 

Animations are still absolutely woeful in this game too, jumping is a personal favourite of mine, just what the hell is THAT!?  As for combat animations, dont even get me started. 

I soldiered on though thinking about the wide open world and all the options available to me ingame.  After about 1 hour, I thought to myself - I'm not really enjoying this - so I logged out and decided to try out one of my old characters on Seradon. 

I entered the game as my level 38 Dark Elf Necromancer and wandered out into the world to play around a bit.  Again, but after less than an hour this time I got to feeling all meh about what I was doing and logged off. 

On to performance.  Yes, performance has improved since my last visit to Telon.  Has it improved as much as some people on this site are trying to make out? - Hell no!  Hitching is still an issue, I still needed to do 'The Vanguard Spin' (tm) when entering the game or a new area. 

My abomination was still bugged for crossing chunks, my wolf form on my Shaman would drop too and several graphical issues were still to be found, flickering, whiteout and suchlike. One thing I will say, is that I didnt crash at all during the little time that I spent in the game this time around, so props to SOE for that fix.

Needless to say Vanguard has again been removed from my HD, after all this time the game is still not up to scratch.  If people can complain about the unfinished state of AoC, then they are going to have a hard time in Vanguard if they decide to try it out.  If AoC is paying to Beta Test, then after 18 months of being a live game so is Vanguard."

Originally posted by Rhems

I ain't coming back to Vanguard. I did that mistake like everyone, I bought the game, installed it, looked at it... it was ugly, gtlichy, sucky, and i uninstalled. And now I'm waiting for a certain 18th september.

O'RLY?

Some from Ancient Port Warehouse (the raid zone)

From test server - Isle of Dawn (the trial island soon to be launched)

Some various screenshots from around telon

My best friend and I were leaders of the very first guild ever allowed into Vanguard's beta.  We brought 50 people with us, and only 2 actually kept playing for more than a few days.  Most of us (including my friend and I) loathed the game with a passion.

Three months later, it launched.  My friend and I gave it another chance, and never got past level 6.  Vanguard was simply horrible, as far as we were concerned.

A couple months ago, we got the email inviting us to come back.  Since AoC was really annoying us by this point for its lack of polish past level 40 we decided to accept Sony's offer.  Honestly, we were not expecting much.  But it was check out Vanguard, keep paying to beta AoC, or go back to WoW.  Vanguard won.

What we found was a huge surprise.  Performance is still not incredible, but the game is certainly very playable.  The key is to give your computer about a minute after loading into the game or changing continents so that it can load everything for your chunk.  (This is especially important if you're at a capital city.)  After that load is done, the game performs quite nicely even with high settings.

Classes are really interesting.  With 15 to choose from, there's something for everyone.  Some are classic archetypes such as tanks, nuking mages, etc.  Many others are hybrids that blend elements and have very unique abilities.  I've tried several classes at this point, and the only one I can't seem to enjoy is the bard.  But I know that's personal taste, since many people love their bards.  Most classes ARE a little slow to come into their own, usually maturing in the early teens.  So I generally recommend waiting until 15 to decide that a class isn't for you.  That's not very long, though, since the early levels do come fast.

There is an almost obscene amount of adventuring content.  I honestly believe that it's possible to level a half dozen characters to 20 without ever repeating a single quest.  There's also a great mix of solo, small group and large group content.  No matter what your mood is at the moment, or how many of your friends are on, you can go adventuring.

Hand in hand with adventuring is harvesting.  Something truly unique about Vanguard's system is that you're able to harvest together with friends.  Let's say you're the only one in your party with reaping and you come across some cotton.  You start the harvest, then your friends join in.  They simply need to have the necessary tool in their harvesting toolbelt.  (The tool is cheap, and doesn't take up any regular inventory space.)  The more people harvesting the node, the more it produces and the better your chances of getting a rare drop.  It's very refreshing not to have five people twiddling their thumbs while the sixth is mining that node you all just came across.

Crafting is both deep and meaningful. (Unlike what AoC tried to foist on us.)  Honestly, it's possibly too deep for some people.  But for those who do get into it, the process is a challenge of trying to get the highest possible quality in your item before you overwork the materials and end up with nothing.  It's a nicely balanced risk vs. reward system.  You can customize what you make, such as creating a belt that boosts vitality or strength; the choice is yours.  What you end up making is worthwhile, too.  It easily rivals or exceeds anything of equivalent level that you get from quests and drops.

The there's diplomacy.  This is an entirely different style of play that involves strategy.  A lot of the game's lore comes out through diplomacy, and you can make a ton of money out of the deal.  The game is strangely addictive, and your actions can spill over to other players by creating buffs that affect everyone in the region.  For example, diplomats can improve the crafting abilities of everyone in the area.

In short, there's always something to do in Vanguard.  Whether you're alone or with friends, you can easily find some fun and challenge.

There are many, many quality of life elements that have made it into the game.  Here are a few examples:

• Brotherhoods.  If you have a few friends that you play with regularly, you can form a brotherhood.  Everyone in the brotherhood shares adventuring experience equally, regardless of whether they're online at the moment or not.  This allows you to level with your friends, even if you can't always be on at the same time.
• Riftways.  Caravans are now obsolete thanks to the riftway system.  These are objects scattered throughout the world that let you travel to any other riftway location.  Hubs are always free to travel to, while the others are priced appropriately to the level of the area they serve.  In short, they're always affordable, provided you're of sufficient level to adventure in the area you're going to.
• Flying Mounts.  Most decent sized towns have vendors that rent these mounts.  The mount will stay in your inventory for up to 10 minutes, and you can actually ride it for a total of 5 minutes.  When the time expires, the mount disappears.  (If you're airborne, you get a 10 minute parachute buff to get you safely to the ground.)  This is actually a great feature, similar to having flight paths in WoW but with the freedom to travel anywhere you want within the alotted time.
• Personal Mounts.  You can buy your first horse at level 10.  It's a 30% speed boost, which is certainly nice, and that can be boosted even higher with the right spells or gear.  Your mount can carry saddlebags, which means extra inventory space that's always with you.  At level 20 and every 10 after that you get access to better and faster mounts.  Then there are also the racial mounts (such as the dark elven spiders), the epic mounts, and the permantly-owned flying mounts.
• Rope.  Ever been with a friend who gets stuck in the geometry somehow?  Sooner or later, it happens in just about every game.  In Vanguard, type /rope to throw your friend a rope and pull him out.
• Zero XP.  Sometimes you want to play, but don't want to outlevel your friends.  Sometimes you want to try to get the last piece of a gear set before you outlevel its value.  Other times you might really be digging a storyline that you'd like to finish without outleveling and trivializing it.  Whatever your reasons, there's a Zero XP Gain "buff" that you can put on yourself.  Sure, you might almost never use it, but it sure is nice to have options.

There really is a ton more than this.  The bottom line is that Vanguard provides a wide open sandbox-type world that (thanks to the huge number and variety of quests) never leaves you flailing around wondering what to do next.  It comes the closest of any game I've ever seen to blending a sandbox together with the alternative.  My good friend and I were very pleasantly surprised upon our return, and we have both subscribed.  We've brought other friends in who have chosen to subscribe as well.  And it's really interesting to watch the continent's chat channel and see all the AoC refugees who are equally (and happily) surprised now that Vanguard has had a year and a half to come into its own.

Is the game for everyone?  Certainly not!  The PvP crowd will be quite disappointed because the game wasn't built around that.  But for the PvE lover, this means that classes were created to be fun to play, rather than balanced into oblivion.  If you're looking for a game with real depth, Vanguard is worth checking out.

I was also in the beta just like you were, and i joined 4-5 months ago again to see how it were, i started on fresh and it was more breathly just liked you said, i really, really like the crafting system, its great. I joined a guild and was going to get to the top. But as any other mmorpg you get boored and you have friends that wants you to come back to WoW and other things that do actually work better, but that doesnt have the potential that vanguard got.

If you are a member of a big guild somewhere and all think its fine to start vanguard out, do it, would be much more fun, atleast in my case, i feel i needed some friends in there to get more out of it.

I will probably buy a subscription at a later date, same as for AoC, going to play it more in the start of 09.

BTW if anyone got a really nice guild and would like to start a new char with me so i can get back in, that would be great, pm me!

I think it is great to hear that VG really has gotten a lot better. I am probably not going to start again right now, but maybe next time I get a "1 month for free if you return"-offer.

Nice graphics too!

(Btw. This is great thread, very constructive and relevant for mmo-players)

VG was a PoS at release, no doubt about it and Sigil deserved to close. Sadly firms doent seem to learn and repeat the same faults over and over. No idea why. Anyway...

Vanguards human and especially elf face design is, compared to the usual art, kinda skinny and bony. As currently most of the options to alter the face are removed for a performance overhaul, there is not much you can do about it.
Ill illustrate it on 2 elven face screenshots (this is my ingame graphic, nothing changed to make it look prettier for forums or so ;)):

But actually its not too bad. Lets have a look here:

You see her face? Not so bad IMHO.
I actually made that screenshot because of the armor and the background scenario.
Speaking of armor & face here is another one I found on my HD:

The whole combat animations in VG are pretty toned down. Especially the melee ones arent impressive. Could use some eye candy, I agree.
Speaking of combat... you can use all combat skills during movement. Normally casters are forced to stand still during a cast in most of the games, not so in VG. It feels really really good.

Someone wrote about hitching "Hitching is still an issue, I still needed to do 'The Vanguard Spin' (tm) when entering the game or a new area."
Well, if you use a rift you reach a new area and all textures are loaded into memory. As this uses your harddrive, which is compared to RAM like a snail, you get lags for some seconds. The better your HD, the less lag. Same thing happens if you cross a chunkborder, but its a lot faster, as most is already loaded into memory.
If I explain this with AoC in mind it would be: You experience such "hitching" in AoC not so much because there is simply not much to load into memory as the zones are so tiny.
Let me illustrate this:

You see the oasis in the background? Thats around half a chunk away. You need to ride for several minutes until you reach it. And remember... everything you see in VG, you can reach.
Now imagine this not being a pretty empty desert, instead being a major city and the game is loading everything at once (as you just used the rift). There is no way around that you will get hitching for some seconds. If this is the cost I have to pay for a seamless world, I gladly pay it.

I just tested it out... If I cross chunkborders I dont loose wolfform. That was one of the bugs at release, but was fixed several months ago.
Jumping animation... well, hard to make such an animation which pleases everyone. IMHO the AoC one is as bad, just in some other way. *shrug*

And here are some nice screenshots I found:

Oh and trees! If you watch those 2 following screenies right behind, you see the trees are moving. Without insane fps drops.