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8/12/08 4:13:27 AM#41
Originally posted by hbosman A lot of post here say that getting a crew together takes time, and what if someone leaves midway etc etc. Isnt that the exact same thing that you have to manage when going into a dungeon in other MMOs. What if you get a party together and the healer leaves for example? To me i dont see this as a problem , you should be able to pick and form a random crew from the space ports, and much easier if you are in a guild. Just as it is now in other MMOs. Another solution is to have NPC with the ability to swap them for PCs.
More importantly what will a group of players do on a ship, especially during combat??
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8/12/08 6:37:52 AM#42
What people forget is that you have all sorts of ships. Just wait and see what they come up with. I don't mind being a Captain of a small vessel |
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8/12/08 6:55:18 AM#43
well, i have read a lot of constructive posts and some not so constructive about that topic, but let me say this: there is one point that none of u have thought about when stating that not everyone wants to be a captain or why cant i be a security officer or whatever...it seems to me that the developers go a completely different way and just ask for some more open minds...look: the starship IS your character more so than the creature (the captain) behind it, the PRIEST in normal mmorpgs surely will be a support frigate, with a cruiser as TANK and so on.........well it sounds funny but surely is their concept....the npc on your ship and yourself are just more or less some characteristics of your starship which u can not simply bosst like leveling up, adding a point to strength but rather go on planetary missions, get xp for skills thus supplementing and contributing them to your starship indirectly................lets say your character (the captain) is not really more than a very complex attribute of your main character, the starship........if u see it that way i guess u will have less problems in accepting the fact, that your crew consists of npcs..... |
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8/12/08 7:32:20 AM#44
Ok, since Star Trek is one of my three holy grails, it's enough to make me say something for once again. Having greatly enjoyed City of Heroes I do have some confidence Cryptic is capabale of making a good Trek MMO. However, there are some details that really made me thinking. My personal concept of a ST MMO was somewhat like SWG in Trek, a game where you are mainly around with other players and *sometimes* make space combat. Now what I realized thinking about it all was, that ST unlike SW is mainly about space, not so much planets. So basically my hope was, STO would be about me as a character being either on a planet or a space station or a great starship with other players. Now I must say that EVE never was my pair of shoes. The idea of space combat and staring into more or less endless blackness of space wasnt my idea of having a joyful MMO time. Not that I mind space combat, but I always preferred to explore, and explore PLACES, I mean like planets, space stations, whatever, but not endless variations of space, because with the exceptions of some nebulas or the one and other comet passing by, it's mainly empty blackness. It just does not have the same "density" of visual interest for me like a forest, a ruin, a city or a vast space station, or a big starship. Now I wonder why everyone has to be captain? I had rather wished people would form crews together, but apparently people will be alone, everyone captain of his own ship now. I dont like that idea much, alas, I really would have preferred a more "social" approach than this. This sounds awfully much like you and your ship and pratically identical, as its the case in EVE, a concept that never thrilled me much. All my dreams had been, being a crew members along with other player and NPC crew members and not alo9ne as soloist in my ship. I will follow how it goes, and I still think Cryptic can make a good game. But I wonder if a game where you are alone in your ship and a majority of time will be spent in the blackness of space really appeals? It is somewhat the same why Pirates of the Burning Sea wasnt my game. 90% of the time you rushed through bleak, blueness of "empty" ocean, and compared to the exploration of worlds it felt boring very fast, since ocean practially looks the same no matter where you go, and basically the same goes with space, right? Just my 10 cents.
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8/12/08 8:58:46 AM#45
Originally posted by Alienovrlord
I was thinking the same thing. I was banking on Cryptic to keep their "influence" mechanic as the method of player run economies. That being said, not all things can be made with a replicator. All the captains in the series had episodes where tangible objects were traded for items / resources desired. So resources will be something desired as jack said in his video. But, latinum? Yes, i agree. Latinum and monetary economies were not emphasized in the Star Trek universe to our Federation. |
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8/12/08 9:01:41 AM#46
Originally posted by Stradden
Yeah, what a let down. I didn't really want to play a captain. So, it sounds like PoTBS on the ship, and what? Sword of the New World on ground? |
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8/12/08 9:08:42 AM#47
Originally posted by hbosman For a lot of players being part of building a guildand having a goal to create bigger ships and experience new content would be fun. Strong guild focused game are generally popular. However, if experiencing certain content is more important to you there are many ways to do that under the system I provided. Start your own guild, Join a guild that's has a ship to do that content, team up with players who belong to a ship that can do said content. I have noticed though that the people who like Cryptics ideas and don't want player crews have been EVE players. So certainly coming from a different prespective then most MMo players. |
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8/12/08 10:16:17 AM#48
Originally posted by dalevi11
Yeah, what a let down. I didn't really want to play a captain. So, it sounds like PoTBS on the ship, and what? Sword of the New World on ground?
They are playing the odds that most people do want to command a ship. I think that is a safe bet. In the MMO world, safe bets don't lose money. For people that like a supporting role, I hope they offer instancing scenarios. Maybe you can work for an NPC Captain in defending the ship when it is boarded, or help a Station from its power source from exploding, or planetary missions, etc. We shall see how things evolve in the coming years |
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8/12/08 10:20:54 AM#49
Overall I think Cryptic is doing the best they can given that they do not want to reinvent the wheel. They have the engine which gives them the power to plug in scenarios and such. If they went the Bridge Commander route with player roles on a player ship, it will be much tougher to develop. Watching the video at least it won't be a glorified Earth and Beyond. So I will watch and learn more as the game develops |
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8/12/08 4:31:21 PM#50
You hit the nail on the head. They are doing the best they can at being lazy and uncreative :( If I were running their business, who knows, it's likely I would have went the same route. Being creative is too risky in this industry these days. But I can't help but feel this is a totally wasted opportunity at something that had potential to be revolutionary. The emphasis on fleet battles feels like the opposite of what the franchise is about, while other aspects of the game sound pretty close to the direction I would go. At this point though, it sounds too much like "you are a ship" with some instances on the side. Will wait to see how it develops to know whether I like the game or not, but I think it could have been better. On the plus side, at least my dream mmo idea is not stolen anymore. I was worried for a while :) |
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8/12/08 6:30:07 PM#51
Originally posted by fansede
They are playing the odds that most people do want to command a ship. I think that is a safe bet. In the MMO world, safe bets don't lose money. For people that like a supporting role, I hope they offer instancing scenarios. Maybe you can work for an NPC Captain in defending the ship when it is boarded, or help a Station from its power source from exploding, or planetary missions, etc. We shall see how things evolve in the coming years I would say you are right, if it hadn't been introduced at a Star Trek Convention =). Star Trek fans are all over the map when it comes to character popularity preference. My favorites were, Spock, Data, Jadzia Dax, Chicote and T'Pol (rowr). Everyone being a starship captain seems to make it very one sided. And for away missions, my guess is you'll have to control multiple toons. The whole thing just seems like its going in a very strange direction. |
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8/13/08 8:58:20 AM#52
Originally posted by fansede
I was thinking the same thing. I was banking on Cryptic to keep their "influence" mechanic as the method of player run economies. That being said, not all things can be made with a replicator. All the captains in the series had episodes where tangible objects were traded for items / resources desired. So resources will be something desired as jack said in his video. But, latinum? Yes, i agree. Latinum and monetary economies were not emphasized in the Star Trek universe to our Federation.
from the new FAQ http://www.startrekonline.com/faq Will there be an economy? So maybe there's hope for a non-latinum-based economy after all... ------------- |
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8/13/08 12:22:31 PM#53
You know it was always a weak point of the franchise that they said there is no money. Economies are created out of necessity due to scarcity, and although replicators do help they certainly don't eliminate the scarcity problem. This is why over and over the different series had to create a pseudo-economy via bartering, energy rations, etc. It's a very kludgey way to fix a broad statement that could never have held up. So an economy makes perfect sense to me. I agree that it currently sounds a little solo-ish for an MMO. "Come walk around my ship" will be great for die-hard RPers or showing off to a friend, but it doesn't equate to cooperative play. Surface missions in groups do make more sense, so I'll hold out hope for that. But it brings to mind the question of travel time: how it's handled will determine how easy it is to form a team. My last concern is about customization not in apperance but in effect. Will everyone be 90% the same but with different skins, or will there be significant differences between my ship/crew and yours? An "open powers system" seems to imply the first, and that would be very disappointing to me. But I do like a lot of what they've said. Devil is in the details, but we'll see! Currently playing: |
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8/13/08 4:25:38 PM#54
Originally posted by Amarsir
Well, I'm not expecting much customization. All Starfleet vessels with weapons have the same phasers, photon torpedoes, quantum torpedoes, etc. All Klingon vessels have the same disruptors and torpedo-things. If you're in Starfleet, you're either going to have a red, yellow, or blue uniform. All freighters/runabouts/science vessels/Constitution-/Excelsior-/Galaxy-class ships have pretty much the same crew complements. They have the same bulkheads/carpet/lighting/etc.
Great, now I've gone and half convinced myself to NOT buy this... ------------- |
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8/13/08 10:47:30 PM#55
Couple typos, I don't mean to be rude. Then, or course, there’s the fact that at a Star Trek convention, you can have your game introduced by Lneonard Nimoy, the original Mr. Spock. While combat is going to play a role in the game, exploration will playa factor as well, including first-contact. |
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8/14/08 9:59:03 AM#56
I've seen people beat around the bush on this issue, but no one blatantly said anything about it. Some of us want to form a group and fly 1 vessel. One of the reasons no one has listed, is that "Boldly go where no man has gone before..." or the fact that the shows was all about 1 ship and its crew exploring the unexplorable. How does an entire fleet made up of explorers fit into all of this and how long before everything is explored, when everyone is a Captain? I've read every post in this thread and have read the very reasonable responses to why Cryptic should cater to the Captain crowd vs the "all in one ship" crowd, however, why do we as consumers have to "settle" for anything less than a superb product. Star Trek is a huge IP and has a lot of potential in MMORPGs to allow Trekkie fans to experience the life of the Captain and it's crew they watched on television. I think we expect more of a social exploration game, more than anything else. It seams to me the "reasonable" ones agreeing with everyone being a Captain are giving up. I'd rather see a proper Star Trek MMORPG or no Star Trek MMORPG, because when technology gets better in the future, we will be stuck with a mediocre Star Trek MMORPG the way things are going now. The "game" might be fun, but Star Trek lends itself as a virtual reality/world social simulator, more than it does a game. People like me are expecting that virtual reality/world social simulator and are very displeased with Cryptics direction. MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW Currently Playing: WAR |
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8/14/08 5:13:33 PM#57
First off, I think that the direction they're going with this game is the right one. Lots of opinions on here on soloing vs playing with others, so I'll throw in mine: gaming with others can be fun, but I have never, ever enjoyed spending time finding one, forming one, or waiting for others to show up at the dungeon (or whatever). In fact, I call shenanigans on any pro-grouper who tells me this aspect of grouping is fun. Then there's the multiple afks, brbs, gtgs, and so on. So yes, if everyone is on the same page, and dedicated, it's fun. But the reality is that this is almost never the case. So, yes, this game sounds to me like it will be a blast. However, the we're-all-in-this-together attitude that made Star Trek so great will not exist in this MMO. Why? Because there are just too many asses online. It's sad, but it's true. I'm afraid anyone looking forward to the ever-hopefulness so pervasive to Star Trek will be disappointed, but that's not to say that this won't be a great game.
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8/14/08 10:07:45 PM#58
I think some of you may not have gotten the gist of what Star Trek is all about. It is about bringing humanity together, for a greater good... and you all can do that here. I see several posts of doom and gloom... but I really dont see many people using common sense, and trying to guide this to a POSITIVE outcome. Why does the crew issue need to be mutually exclusive (other than to give people something to bicker about)? Let me paint a picture that generally follows what they have described (remember this game isnt done yet, and some good positive input could make this a win for everyone). Description of how the game COULD turn out: The game is skill based. People have to do a job to get better at it, and they cant be the best at everything. Everyone starts as a captain (not rank) of thier own ship (be it shuttle craft, or space dingy). They all have a mode of transportation, and the ability to use it. They can develop these skills, and eventually get larger craft with openings for more crew. These crew will be NPC's, and as your career develops, so does your ship and crew. Now, not all players want to be captains, all the time... but they all start with those basic skills. They have the option to join the crew of other ships, and to replace the standard NPC's. They can develop thier skills as a science officer, medic, engineer, etc. They can change from ship to ship, as slots are available, or they can just captain thier own ship when none are available. Now, the missions that crews accept would range in difficulty, and the best crews would be all human crews, with well developed skills. These crews could pull off missions, that a single player, with only NPC crews would never dream of taking on. This would also lead to the tradeoff for guilds/fleets. They could field many ships, with NPC crews, or less ships, with human crews. This would make for a trade off in large scale raids. It would also allow for a mixing of skills for different missions to allow players to accomplish them in different ways.
I think if people were to present something like THIS as the most desirable outcome (i.e. they have taken what was given, and put it together in the fashion most desirable for both sides), then this feedback could be considered during development, and the benefits of such a system could be realized. |
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8/15/08 9:36:50 AM#59
Originally posted by SwampRob
I only watched some of Star Trek: The Next Generation as a kid when my mother had it on, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I am a pro-grouper, as you call them, and I will be the first to tell you that sitting around waiting for a group sucks. That's why I left DDO. A pure grouping game, while in theory, is fun, it just cannot work. But it's not my job to figure out the details, it's the programmers. My job is to hold Cryptic accountable to the Star Trek lore as a fan. If they cannot do this, they should not make the game. Some IP's just shouldn't be made into games, especially MMORPGs, because they have a tendacy to throw lore and history out the window, which for fans is a big NoNo. SoE did this with Star Wars and I don't want Cryptic to say F' the lore for the sake of fun/game. If lore, fun, and game cannot be synonomous, then I don't want to see the game made...period. MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW Currently Playing: WAR |
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Brenelael
 Elite Member
Joined: 10/19/06
Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006 |
8/15/08 2:58:30 PM#60
Yeah, I want a game where I can be a Science Officer on a PC crew. I want to be staring at a LCARS display with Atari 2600 graphics every time an exciting space battle is going on. I want to stand like a Bridge Orniment with my thumb up my ass whenever there is nothing for me to scan. What an exciting concept for a game!! Sign me up for that!! NOT!!.....You people screaming for player crews crack me up because if you got what you want you'd be bored out of your skulls after the first day and quit the game.
I think the game is going in the exact direction it needs to go to be a success. Cryptic's team are true Star Trek fans and excellent game designers. The IP is in very capable hands.
Bren while(horse==dead) |
