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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Correspondent - About Those Cuts...

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97 posts found
  zepherion

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/07
Posts: 23

8/01/08 2:38:40 PM#41

Thumbs up for the article.

And indeed there's been much discussed about the cut on the forums. But the article nicely sums up what I think most of the players I know are thinking. I can't speak on behalve of anyone on here, but the RL friends I know that are awaiting this game all where surprised to see a company being open and outfront to their future customers. Then again all of them had already cancelled their subscription to the other know PvP focussed MMO that was announced promissing heaven on mmo earth, so they'd rather have it this way then the other way round.

I still got my collectors pre-order and looking forward to an official launch date soon!

  starbead

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/07
Posts: 44

8/01/08 2:40:54 PM#42

I agree with the cuts, as well.  What Mythic has planned for Warhammer is MASSIVE.  There will still be a lot to the game.

However, my one fear is that Mythic could end up pulling a Blizzard and spend two years hyping all the free content they have added when almost all of it is the stuff that was cut just before launch.  While launching the cut cities back into the game in pairs makes sense, there should be a LOT of new content unrelated to the cut features in those patches if Mythic is going to ever hype all the "free" content they have added.

 

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

8/01/08 2:57:20 PM#43

I'm a big fan of Mythic's work with DAoC. I played that game from 2002-2005 before quitting, and on and off since then. I think their decision to tell us they were cutting the cities and classes was a good choice, however, the choice to cut the cities and classes I think was a bad choice. Instead, they should have pushed back the game until they could put all of the cities in the game in a polished state. The classes don't matter so much, because there are other classes to play. But the cities are integral to the lore and without the race appropriate cities, it would be hard to stay immersed in the game for RPers who play races other than Empire and Chaos. It'd be like WoW only having Ogrimmar and Stormwind at launch. The non-human and Orc races would feel neglected and without a home. For this reason, and this reason alone, Mythic should postpone the game until they can make the game complete. Make no mistake, they are releasing an incomplete, while polished, game if they don't include the main city for every race they put in the game. They could alternately make the game complete by taking the races away that don't have a city and introduce the races and the cities together at a later time. That would make the most sense lore wise, which is all I really care about.

Save the cities, save the lore. Lose the cities, and you lose the lore.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  grimfall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1158

8/01/08 4:10:32 PM#44

Although I like the general tone and idea of the article, I do have to take exception to this:

Mark has said that the four capital cities and four classes were cut because they weren't enough fun or on par with Mythic's expectations and standards. Shouldn't we, as gamers, applaud the move rather than shun it and play something that the game's developer's feel just isn't up to snuff?

Why couldn't Mythic spend the time (aka money) to make these cities and other classes fun? It comes off quite fanboyish.

  XImpalerX

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/15/07
Posts: 544

"As you think, so shall you become"

8/01/08 4:12:09 PM#45
Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

I'm a big fan of Mythic's work with DAoC. I played that game from 2002-2005 before quitting, and on and off since then. I think their decision to tell us they were cutting the cities and classes was a good choice, however, the choice to cut the cities and classes I think was a bad choice. Instead, they should have pushed back the game until they could put all of the cities in the game in a polished state. The classes don't matter so much, because there are other classes to play. But the cities are integral to the lore and without the race appropriate cities, it would be hard to stay immersed in the game for RPers who play races other than Empire and Chaos. It'd be like WoW only having Ogrimmar and Stormwind at launch. The non-human and Orc races would feel neglected and without a home. For this reason, and this reason alone, Mythic should postpone the game until they can make the game complete. Make no mistake, they are releasing an incomplete, while polished, game if they don't include the main city for every race they put in the game. They could alternately make the game complete by taking the races away that don't have a city and introduce the races and the cities together at a later time. That would make the most sense lore wise, which is all I really care about.

Save the cities, save the lore. Lose the cities, and you lose the lore.

   I agree they should've pushed the game back until they could have the same level of polish on each of the races cities, but i beleive they want to keep this release date, so that they do not compete with WotLK after it has been released. if they delay it any longer people will flock to WotLK and may not give WAR a chance once they are hooked on WoW again.
 

    lets let them get addicted to WAR now and then when WotLK releases they wont even bother. i could be way off, but it seems like a good move. We need something new, that is fun and refreshing, its long past due.

  Lichbane

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/04
Posts: 15

8/01/08 5:59:41 PM#46
Originally posted by theJexster

Quality over quantity. I agree with the cuts, and appreciate the honesty with which they were announced to us.

 

QFT.  I wish Funcom has learnt this lesson with AoC.

  ThomasN7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6659

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

8/01/08 6:07:19 PM#47

Until release we will not know if Mythic made the right choice or not.  On paper it sounds logical to do this but we'll just have to wait and see if it pans out right. 

  aurick

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 320

8/01/08 6:19:25 PM#48
Originally posted by grimfall

Although I like the general tone and idea of the article, I do have to take exception to this:

Mark has said that the four capital cities and four classes were cut because they weren't enough fun or on par with Mythic's expectations and standards. Shouldn't we, as gamers, applaud the move rather than shun it and play something that the game's developer's feel just isn't up to snuff?

Why couldn't Mythic spend the time (aka money) to make these cities and other classes fun? It comes off quite fanboyish.

 

They are still going to take the time and spend the money to make the cities fun.  They just aren't going to do so before launch. 

The reason they aren't going to do so before launch is undoubtedly very simple:  Mr. Publisher.  The publisher is the company that's putting up the money, and when the publisher gives you a final launch date, you have no choice but to do whatever it takes to make the launch happen.  If that means temporarily cutting some content in order to ensure that the rest is up to snuff, then that's what you do.


  Ravkeen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 311

I Salute U.

8/01/08 6:28:30 PM#49
Originally posted by XImpalerX
Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

I'm a big fan of Mythic's work with DAoC. I played that game from 2002-2005 before quitting, and on and off since then. I think their decision to tell us they were cutting the cities and classes was a good choice, however, the choice to cut the cities and classes I think was a bad choice. Instead, they should have pushed back the game until they could put all of the cities in the game in a polished state. The classes don't matter so much, because there are other classes to play. But the cities are integral to the lore and without the race appropriate cities, it would be hard to stay immersed in the game for RPers who play races other than Empire and Chaos. It'd be like WoW only having Ogrimmar and Stormwind at launch. The non-human and Orc races would feel neglected and without a home. For this reason, and this reason alone, Mythic should postpone the game until they can make the game complete. Make no mistake, they are releasing an incomplete, while polished, game if they don't include the main city for every race they put in the game. They could alternately make the game complete by taking the races away that don't have a city and introduce the races and the cities together at a later time. That would make the most sense lore wise, which is all I really care about.

Save the cities, save the lore. Lose the cities, and you lose the lore.

   I agree they should've pushed the game back until they could have the same level of polish on each of the races cities, but i beleive they want to keep this release date, so that they do not compete with WotLK after it has been released. if they delay it any longer people will flock to WotLK and may not give WAR a chance once they are hooked on WoW again.
 

    lets let them get addicted to WAR now and then when WotLK releases they wont even bother. i could be way off, but it seems like a good move. We need something new, that is fun and refreshing, its long past due.

OK you can say that now. But there would have been a lot more people pissed off again if they pushed the game back again. It would have been the same rant again this game going to fail because they delayed it again. The gaming community has become this way if they can't get it the way they want it they rant about it. If they can't get it in a timely matter they whine about it. If a gaming company is honest about something and says this will not be in the game they cry and curse about it. The gaming community have become these little crying kids that impossible don't exist to them that everything they want should be in a game. But I do believe the route that Mythic has taken is a good one finish polishing everything you got and deliver it another hold would left a lot more people with big doubts about the game.

Hi I'm Ravkeen!

Ravkeen 50Nightshade 11L0
Now Playing : Dark Age of Camelot

"America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."

  sifudoja

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/06
Posts: 142

8/01/08 6:47:37 PM#50

Although i am disappointed with 3 or 4 classes per race, i do admire the way they handled it.

The fact that they removed things that did not meet a standard of quality that they wanted, and were open and honest about the situation instead of leaving us in the dark or allowing people to create characters that are a class that is sub par and letting them find that out for themselves and deal with it, is the proper way to do things.

At the same time, i don't mind the cookie cutter classes that can be available to multiple races  that many other games use either. I think humans are the ultimate race and will always play them in games due to my preference, and being limited in my other choices because of that makes me a little sad. But as always, i will learn to deal with downside of playing a human as i do in every game, i just wish there wasn't always a downside to being human, lol.

I know they are putting alot of work into making great classes for WAR, and hopefully they will do a  good job and that will make me want to play the other races and classes after my first human character. It's not as if i refuse to play anything besides a human, only that all things equal i will always choose a human.

  Redmow

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/04
Posts: 198

8/01/08 7:19:54 PM#51

 I appreciate it that they didn't try to pull one over on us. Told us the truth.

 I still don't have high hopes for this game but that is because of my WFRP, WFB and WH40K history (many years...started back in the day with Rogue Trader).

 There is alot of potential with this game but I don't think they set it up to benefit from that spirit of Warhammer. I think this game is going to hinge on the PvP aspect. It's set up to focus on it. When we all get bored with the same fighting areas, another city or two will be released to give new ground to fight over with new quests.

 This game seems to focus heavily on Guilds also. That is where I'm resting my hope (the little I have). The tools guilds are given will create the player character depth if the guilds use the tools in an imaginitive way.

 I hope for the best for this game, though and will be trying it out.

  User Deleted
8/01/08 7:25:49 PM#52

Again we see the same thing happening where <insert game company> announces a release date and screws themselves. If they waited till they had a meeting of all departments and had a good analyst then they might of figured out they would need more time and could then release a date for launch and be happy that if anything comes up that is bad within that time limit they could still fix it.

Now they put the foot in the mouth and with that they are now screwing the customer. Taking mid development content out that was already stated for release does not help with bargaining.

  xanklar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 83

Credo, quia impossibile est ...

me transmitte sursum caledoni

8/01/08 8:15:02 PM#53

Whilst honesty at this stage is important, for them to have had so long and only realise (even now) that it wasn't going to happen is a concern.  Either that or their honesty was a little delayed ...

The other issue is that they have now put enormous pressure on themselves - if they are going to cut so much they had better be sure that their launch is one of the smoothest in recent history (maybe not all that hard given recent history).

I can't imagine many people giving them much slack if they launch a third of the game they originally intended, and they encounter major issues at launch.

Hope for the best and expect the worst - that way at least you can never be disappointed, just pleasantly surprised.

  jmd10222

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/04
Posts: 428

8/01/08 10:36:08 PM#54

"Mark chose the former and, from a glance at the forums, he cost Mythic some good will, though certainly more good will would have been lost had he chosen the latter. Right?"

 

True , but i disagree with the "loss of good will". I think their honesty and not wanting to screw people over for subs has won them more credit with the MMO community.

  Flummoxed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 592

Make a WORLD,
Not a Game.

8/01/08 11:22:11 PM#55
Originally posted by starbead

However, my one fear is that Mythic could end up pulling a Blizzard and spend two years hyping all the free content they have added when almost all of it is the stuff that was cut just before launch. 

Aye, this is part of the marketing "tactic" that another poster alluded to previously.

The other tactic is, 'overextend then pullback' - if they knew and announced from the beginning they'd only be releasing a 2 city game people would have thought that was too small.  But talk up an 8 city game to drum up interest and pre-orders, then come out all sheepish and apologetic before launch and play the 'well at least he's honest' card, and people think you're a hero and don't even notice that it's a small 2 city game.

What if they knew 3 years ago they'd never be able to have all the features they talked about, but kept hypeing them anyway to gain interest and orders?

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16745

8/01/08 11:31:31 PM#56

Cutting the 4 classes. cool. I have no problem with that. Classes can allways be patched in at a later state. It's not that WAR have few classes anyways.

But cutting the 4 cities is a lot worse, cities are important for the feel of a game, and it is also important for the PvP aspect, it makes the endgame a lot more intresting. No, to me it sounds like they are getting forced by a certain publisher to release the game to early, same thing as happened to AoC and Vanguard. I rather wait another 6 months and get the full game than having another game release to early.

And is it just the cities or big zones around them that have been cut? How big will the game be at launch? Many new games suffer cause it is to few zones. Cutting down on content a few months before launch will not make that better.

I still have hopes for WAR but I dont trust the publisher.

  DeserttFoxx

Elite Member

Joined: 5/11/04
Posts: 2337

Cry Havok; and let loose the dogs of war.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

8/02/08 12:01:16 AM#57

It seems we have come to the point where we cant even hold devolopers to their word and promises because apperently it is beyond reasonable.

There is nothing about having 4 classes added post launch that sounds appealing, how poorly designed were these classes that they couldnt be salvaged they had to be totally scrapped 2 months before launch, How do you pump so much energy into advertising how great your class system will be, 4 archetypes and 24 unique classes and then at the last minute change it all around and expect people not to be furious about it. Removing an interactive raid city is understanble, but a class, that something you should have completly ironed out before you announce it.

Adding in the 4 missing classes after launch as if they are a prize is not appealing, i am going to have to shell out more money for an expansion to get features that were promised years before. And the content will finally be launched and a bunch of people start re rolling flooding the classes just to experience them.

Sure some people will applaud them for their decision but i am not one of them, i read articles like this as just a fancy way of saying the game isnt finished but we are launching it anyway. Scaling back content too meet the launch date is not quality over quantity, its moving the goal post, just because they announced ahead of time that we should be prepared for a post launch patch fest, doesnt change that fact.

I am one of the people who decided to cancel their preorder, while i enjoy the beta, i simply plan on waiting until all those post launch additions make their way into the game, whether it takes one month, two months or two years. I refuse to pay a company while they finish their product.

And for the record, i understand a mmo is supposed to be an ongoing product, and features are supposed to be continously added, my definition of a finished mmo at launch, is when the game comes out including all the key features they advertised the entire time the game was announced. Warhammer has cut too many things in my opinion that have me believe i am buying the same game, a few things they announced, a few things they havent announced yet. So i wil sit back, wait for the launch, watch th eprogress of the game, and read the patch notes carefully and when the game is at the point i feel is worth paying for i will go and pick it up.

Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  Hardas

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/07
Posts: 27

8/02/08 12:50:52 AM#58

lol hype hype hype and then flop!!!!

  Onecrazyguy

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/08
Posts: 86

8/02/08 1:59:28 AM#59

I'm not buying the "we're cutting 4 to give you 2 great ones"... The bottom line is they are running out of time and have to cut scope. I would highly doubt that they are putting more time into the other 2 cities, it's more likely the case that pulling the 4 saves them time they need to just finish the game.

 

Oh and about "post launch": WoW was going to have player housing "post launch"... where is that?? WoW also was going to have "hero classES" post launch, several years later in a paid expansion pack they are introducing... *1* hero class. So those of you waiting for "post launch", don't hold your breath.

 

  Airspell

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1405

8/02/08 2:00:02 AM#60

All Hail Mythic and their fanbois, All News is Good News !!  Oh Mr Jacobs I could never be mad at you. Your PR is so good, you could cut more of the game and I wouldn't mind. Oh Mr Jacobs TAKE ME !!!

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