After reading all of everybodies rants and raves about this subject, without anybody knowing anything on how its going to be - I'm not exactly sure where to start, but nearly EVERYTHING I've read is negative, so its time for a positive outlook on this project.

SWG was one of the most successful MMORPGs prior to WoW. WoW for the past few years has ruined the gaming industry. Blizzard created a mammoth of a game, that was simple, fun, and had a shallow learning curve. This game exploded on the market, and everybody bought it. Prior to WoW if you had 100k subs to your game you had a very, very successful MMO. When WoW came out the gaming companies started making copies, or games similar to WoW in order to try and grab at some of the profits that they were pulling in.

The thing about the state of the industry now is. Nearly EVERYBODY is sick of WoW. Sick of the same game play. Thats why everybody stated that AoC was the DEATH of WoW, simply because it had a different play style. AoC flopped because they released it too soon, swaying in the direction of the fans cries to release the game.

And now the next shining light in the death of WoW is KotORO. Everybody wants their version of the game, however, lets look at the facts here.

A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.

Biowares Neverwinter Nights series is the APEX of sandbox - you may call bullshit on this, but listen to the reasoning. NWN is a COMPLETE sandbox, no other game can you modify SO MUCH within the game. You can make your own maps, your own severs, characters, enemies, etc.

Now do I believe that Bioware will use the same exact approach they did to NWN to KOTOR? No. However, NWN is wildly successful - and if Bioware, and I have full confidence in this, can take the sandbox ideas in NWN and apply it to an MMO. We could have the greatest Hybrid of a Sandbox/Story driven game that the gaming industry has ever seen.

Couple that with the fact that Star Wars by default already has a larger fan base than WoW could have ever thought of having - some people will play it just because its Star Wars. Depending on the launch, how the game is made, and learning from past marketing experences, Bioware could effecivly push this game to 20 million people.

If you look at it from that point of view - it isn't so bad. And you can bet that Bioware / EA / LA want to de-throne WoW, and they are so stupid that they'll make a WoW copy - they can see how many have already failed.

I vote "pie".

I don't know. My hopes and wishes are for the sandbox game. If its based on a D20 system with alignment based pvp all the better.

YIPEE! ANOTHER KOTOR THREAD! The hype on this forum about KOTOR makes it sound like the true WoW killer.WRONG!

Originally posted by Rogue420

YIPEE! ANOTHER KOTOR THREAD! The hype on this forum about KOTOR makes it sound like the true WoW killer.WRONG!

Thank you for making a constructive post. If I posted like you I'd have 10,000 posts by now.

Originally posted by Dominisi

SWG was one of the most successful MMORPGs prior to WoW.

What the hell version of SWG pre-CU did you play? The game open to mediocre reviews and was bug ridden from day 1.

KOTORO's (or whatever they decide to call it, if thats what the MMO is) success will be determined on what kind of game they create and how the intended audience receives it....nothing else.

Unless the game has FFAPVP, I wont even bother bookmarking it.

God, I am frothing at the  official announcement of this game. 

I agree with the OP.

We need to see some major changes to the MMO development attitude, or else noone will care about MMOs in two years into the future.

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by Dominisi

SWG was one of the most successful MMORPGs prior to WoW.

 

What the hell version of SWG pre-CU did you play? The game open to mediocre reviews and was bug ridden from day 1.

KOTORO's (or whatever they decide to call it, if thats what the MMO is) success will be determined on what kind of game they create and how the intended audience receives it....nothing else.

YES the game was bug ridden since day 1, HOWEVER in terms of active subscriptions? in 2004 I belive it was either the 2nd or 3rd most popular MMO next to everquest.

Originally posted by Dominisi

Biowares Neverwinter Nights series is the APEX of sandbox - you may call bullshit on this, but listen to the reasoning. NWN is a COMPLETE sandbox, no other game can you modify SO MUCH within the game. You can make your own maps, your own severs, characters, enemies, etc.

I disagree. I don't think of NWN as a sandbox at all, the single player campaigns are about as linear as every other story driven RPG. The designer tools they provide to create your own worlds are amazing, but it isn't connected to the original game. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by implementing this in an MMO. Unless you're talking about something like an interactive 'holodeck' type thing where players are given design tools within the game for social entertainment.. but even that would seem like a waste of resources.

Why are we talking about Kotor?

The game isnt totally announced yet!!!

Once it is we wont see it for 3-5 years anyway.

Originally posted by Narshe

Originally posted by Dominisi

Biowares Neverwinter Nights series is the APEX of sandbox - you may call bullshit on this, but listen to the reasoning. NWN is a COMPLETE sandbox, no other game can you modify SO MUCH within the game. You can make your own maps, your own severs, characters, enemies, etc.

 

I disagree. I don't think of NWN as a sandbox at all, the single player campaigns are about as linear as every other story driven RPG. 

I agree...NWN was a story on rails. The only way to deviate was to jump into player created worlds.

A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.

I don't believe you should post something like this without a source to back it up.  I've never head this before and I believe it is not true as the SWG skill system was developed by the creator of UO I believe.

Originally posted by Flyte27

A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.

I don't believe you should post something like this without a source to back it up.  I've never head this before and I believe it is not true as the SWG skill system was developed by the creator of UO I believe.

Raph Koster and his team when he was employed at SOE designed the skill system, not Bioware.

Originally posted by Narshe

Originally posted by Dominisi

Biowares Neverwinter Nights series is the APEX of sandbox - you may call bullshit on this, but listen to the reasoning. NWN is a COMPLETE sandbox, no other game can you modify SO MUCH within the game. You can make your own maps, your own severs, characters, enemies, etc.

 

I disagree. I don't think of NWN as a sandbox at all, the single player campaigns are about as linear as every other story driven RPG. The designer tools they provide to create your own worlds are amazing, but it isn't connected to the original game. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by implementing this in an MMO. Unless you're talking about something like an interactive 'holodeck' type thing where players are given design tools within the game for social entertainment.. but even that would seem like a waste of resources.

Think about it this way, instead of using the tools to manipulate your own server , evolving them in a way that they can be used to manipulate the massive sever, e.g. building buildings, making mines in mountains/asteroids, of course not make a sort of holo, but allowing the players to change the galaxy the way they want it. Of course also adding boundaries so it does not completly screw things up, but nontheless making the world changeable.

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by Flyte27

A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.

I don't believe you should post something like this without a source to back it up.  I've never head this before and I believe it is not true as the SWG skill system was developed by the creator of UO I believe.

 

Raph Koster and his team when he was employed at SOE designed the skill system, not Bioware.

I'm currently trying to dig up where I read it at, but the skill system derived from a developer who worked at bioware.  I'll do a bit more digging and find it though.

Hype is anti-fun.

Originally posted by Dominisi

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by Flyte27

A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.

I don't believe you should post something like this without a source to back it up.  I've never head this before and I believe it is not true as the SWG skill system was developed by the creator of UO I believe.

 

Raph Koster and his team when he was employed at SOE designed the skill system, not Bioware.

 

I'm currently trying to dig up where I read it at, but the skill system derived from a developer who worked at bioware.  I'll do a bit more digging and find it though.

Even if thats true one employee at Bioware doesn't mean a whole lot.  Especially one employee that you say doesn't work there anymore.  Bioware is a company that is made up of many different people.
 

Originally posted by daarco

I agree with the OP.

We need to see some major changes to the MMO development attitude, or else noone will care about MMOs in two years into the future.

WoW created a new paradigm for MMOs.  Don't expect that to go away because it makes $$$$$$$$$$$...like McDonalds.

There's only a handful of IPs out there that could potentially create a new paradigm that can draw a huge crowd.  And Star Wars is one of them.  But I argue that any new MMO paradigm that draws in massive amounts of people will be no more appealing to MMOs players that want something different than WoW is now.  It will just be switching from a McDonald's to Burger King menu.

Serious MMO fans (those who try lots of different games, not just live their life in WoW) should probably just get used to enjoying those niche games that don't have the population that WoW has, but has the elements that it lacks.

Originally posted by Thradar

Originally posted by daarco

I agree with the OP.

We need to see some major changes to the MMO development attitude, or else noone will care about MMOs in two years into the future.

 

WoW created a new paradigm for MMOs.  Don't expect that to go away because it makes $$$$$$$$$$$...like McDonalds.

There's only a handful of IPs out there that could potentially create a new paradigm that can draw a huge crowd.  And Star Wars is one of them.  But I argue that any new MMO paradigm that draws in massive amounts of people will be no more appealing to MMOs players that want something different than WoW is now.  It will just be switching from a McDonald's to Burger King menu.

Serious MMO fans (those who try lots of different games, not just live their life in WoW) should probably just get used to enjoying those niche games that don't have the population that WoW has, but has the elements that it lacks.

First of all, your analogy of the McDonalds / BK menu sucks, they are both fast food. Would be good if you were describing a WoW clone.

Second, I don't doubt the innovativeness of LA and Bioware. Hopefully they can develop some sort of game that can combine Exploration, Story, Building and Killing all into one inclusive MMO. And the thing about the Star Wars IP is the fact that it HAS that much potential. Bioware isn't limited to One contry, one world, not even one solar system. There is an entire galaxy that players could explore. Plus if you are any kind of starwars fan that goes beyond just the movies, if  you read the books and play the KOTOR games you realize that the KOTOR period was FULL of Empires and wars, if bioware lives up to its reputation I see a VERY well done hybrid of Killing exporing building and story.