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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Mark Jacobs Interview Part Two

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242 posts found
  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

7/12/08 1:02:05 AM#141
Originally posted by ProfRed

No matter how you spin it this is bad news.  Some of us, including me, may think that Mythic is handling it well and making the right choice of releasing less polished content instead of too much unpolished content if they HAVE to release it soon and absolutely cannot push back the launch.

However, they are releasing a clearly unfinished game instead of pushing it back which will hurt them, and is dissapointing.  They are cutting content which is never a good thing.

There is no way to put a positive spin on this.  It is bad news all around, and it makes me sad, but it is still better news than: "Most of our cities are unpolished and underdeveloped and 1/4th of our classes suck, but we are going to release like this anyway."

No matter how you spin it a MASSIVE amount of content just got cut, and we aren't going to see it anytime soon as launches take from 3-12 months to iron out bugs and start really bringing on content. 


 

I completely agree. Depending on who you are; better news would have been to delay the game for another year to get things right and all in by launch. Not everyone is in NEED to play a game. Some of us are happy in the games we are in, while others are quite happy not playing any game, but would have tried this game because of all the stuff it will have in it. Well, Mythic just took at 2/3 of the cities, which is a big deal to many people, and 4 classes, which people should know by now is a huge deal, since people become attached to classes.

Yeah, I'd rather have them push the release back. It would have been better news than this.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  Maelkor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/05
Posts: 458

7/12/08 1:15:11 AM#142

I personally think its good news in this fashion: What usually drags a game down those first few months is having porely designed and polished content. There are usually big holes in levels in the game and things just get boring because so much effort was put into the first 10 or 20 levels that the final 10 or 15 levels get little to no love.

Vanguard was probably the best example of a potentially great game that tried to do too much for release and as a result everything sucked and was ruined. The game has never recovered and at this point I highly doubt ever will.

I  see this more as getting rid of the dead weight dragging the game down and focusing on the absolute essentials to get a good base game finished. If they actually finish this content then it should only take them a month or two at most to work out all the major release bugs and challenges and get back to adding in all the missing content such as the other capitol cities.

I am personally ready for a game to do it right for once and am hoping and praying that perhaps this one will be the one for me. The last game I got any real true long term enjoyment from playing was EQ and I quit that one back in 2005 I think.

 

As far as people not buying the game solely because of this announcement...more people would have simply quit the game in the first month if they had proceeded along the path of just putting out six crappy cities instead of 2 really good cities than they might lose from people not buying the game because there are only 2 cities. That first impression of a game does more to make or break a game than lots of crappy content just because it was initially promised.

  Rhoklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 2901

$500 Backer to 2014's Top New MMO... The Repopulation!

7/12/08 1:18:35 AM#143

So I guess it comes down to just this...

No company makes a complete game or atleast implements everything they promised before launch at release.

Therefore, Mythic is neither better nor worse than any other company in this aspect.

However, Mythic atleast came to us and were upfront about what was going on, telling us exactly what they were doing and how the game was coming along.

So, if I had to choose between a company that breaks promises but tells me why before I buy the game, or a company which breaks promises and doesn't tell me squat.

Guess I'll support the honest company, cause atleast I won't have to deal with any suprises in the future.

You can bitch all you want about cities being delayed and classes getting cut, I can live without my Hammerer, cause theres a crapload of other classes to play, which is more than I can say for WoW with its identical twins on both sides.

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

7/12/08 1:22:48 AM#144
Originally posted by fishytoothy

No orcs in a warhammer game. What the hell are they thinking? I don't even care about the classes themselves being gone so much as what thier removal means in terms of the IP. The cities though, that sucks--I don't even understand how they can cut 4 cities out when the whole point of the game is fighting over those cities. They might as well cut all the races other than chaos and empire. Extremely disheartening news, even the biggest fans now are questioning whether to get this game.


 

That's the burden of owning a IP license. Things must be right. I'd rather see them release only Empire and Chaose at release and introduce the other races, classes, and cities through expansions and preserve the integrity of the IP than to see them butcher the IP in the name of quality and an earlier release date.

Make no mistake, I will not tolerate a low quality game, nor am I asking them to release it before it's ready. But that's just it, if the game isn't ready for all the races to have their cities and classes, then the game either needs to cut the races and cities affiliated with them or delay the game until they can put them in correctly.

You can't spin an Elf giving two coppers about the rize or fall of a human city as a believable or good thing. Mythic needs to think about the integrity of the IP.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  acidblood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 225

7/12/08 1:36:46 AM#145

A number of people seem to be saying they should have pushed back the release, but I don't think that really would have helped in the case of the classes. From the way I read it the classes got cut not just because they simply weren’t balanced or polished, but because they where fundamentally broken in some way, which means the devs would have had to go back to the drawing board, and who knows how long that would take.

As for the cities, yeah it’s a shame they won’t be in at launch, but like has been said, the 2 cities that are left will be better than they otherwise would have been, and the devs can learn form what happens in the live game to make the other cities even better; so in the end it’s a benefit, and it probably won’t take much longer to get them in the game after launch than it would have taken if they delayed it; again.

If these where the only real reasons why they would have delayed the game then I think they made the right decision in shelving these 4 classes and cities instead. From everything I have heard form Mark and the other WAR devs I get a strong impression that they know what they are doing, so if they say it's not ready and needs to but cut from the game for the time being I am willing to trust their judgement on that. Besides, everything else is still there (assuming there is in no more bad news to come), all the game play mechanics and types are still there, so at the end of the day (or 6 months to a year) does it really matter if this stuff is in at launch or added within that time?

 

And if you really need those cities / classes to have fun in the game then simply don’t buy it till they are added; hey, you wanted it delayed anyway.

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

7/12/08 1:46:58 AM#146
Originally posted by Zorgo


 

I think MMO devs need to stop letting us in on the creative process of game development. Of course ideas are going to be ammended, augmented or eliminated in this type of a massive project. If they just kept their big mouths shut, we would never have even known these classes and cities would have even existed.

We've been conditioned to believe that when a business puts something out there for the public, it has already gone thru the creative process and has been set in stone. Until mmo's, this was pretty true. But mmo's have developed a new marketing tactic that gives us a window into the process from A to Z.

I think that marketing strategy has failed epically. Considering VG, AoC and now Warhammer, they  have and will all feel the huge negative impacts from this innovative, yet disfunctional advertising plan.

I say the development period should practice silence. Then 1 week or maybe 2 before launch, tell us about the game features. We would have no clue about ideas that ended up on the cutting room floor and be a lot happier with our lollipop.

In this way, you wouldn't create a population of people attached to a feature that for whatever reason, doesn't make it into the game.

The only other option would be to educate the entire mmo game population about the nature of give and take on a huge multimillion dollar project spanning years. But somehow, I doubt a certain segment would ever understand.


 

I have to say that I agree with this post. With that said, it doesn't matter when they announce the game, if it is based on an IP, it must maintain the integrity of that IP. From what I can tell, and that isn't much, races in Warhammer have race pride. I would think the other races wouldn't be rushing to the Empire/Chaos cities the way it will be played out.

 

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  Deadzo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/11/07
Posts: 30

7/12/08 2:15:43 AM#147

 

Still skeptical of this game & waiting to see wtf mythic will finally decide to do.  A pvp game anyone can jump into with massive warfare from the get-go and beautiful siege battles still sounds to me: too good to be true.  I don't believe it and they'll need to prove it.

 

As for the annoucement, this is what I hear: Expansion Pack-Dwarves!  Expansion Pack-Dark Elves!  Expansion Pack-High Elves!!  Expansion Pack- Greenskins!!  Now complete with cities and all new classes!!  

I also hear: We're in an hurry, just go with what we've got and hope it doesn't seem too identical to Stormwind & Orgrimarr.  It'll work great, we think, we don't know, better just go with 2, it'll work great, if there's problems only 2 citys to fix, which will work great, maybe, we think, we don't know, we cant fix it live, well we can but that'd be harder, 4th quarter's INC!, put more dungeons in, it's a RVR game, still need double the dungeons (that sounds like PVE), no no it's pvp only you fight against npc and raid bosses, what?, it'll work great, well maybe, we don't know, just put these 2 out for now, these tanks seem similar, so do these dps classes, we better ditch them, really?? we worked for months on those, the armor's the same only this class's armor is black & that guy's is silver, it'll work great, we think.

I still have no idea what to think of this game.  So Mythic "doesn't lie to the players", that's because their products didn't have the character, emersion, and mass appeal that Blizzard's do.  E.A. Mediocre Entertainment, "we no lie, but no one cared".

 

 

  oglem

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/06
Posts: 22

7/12/08 5:01:06 AM#148

Hi all,

 

Im not especially happy with the whole thing. I'm ok that they are dropping stuff because its not right but I have this nagging feeling this will turn into a money making exercise down the road.

At the end of the day if the game is good who gives a ....

For the people calling for a delay, this game is already on the backfoot, just wait till all those must buy games on the horizon arrive (starcraft 2, fable 2, spore), WAR got a subscription model it just doesn't need to win me over at the start it needs to keep winning me. The later this show starts the sooner it might end.

Regards,

Oglem

  User Deleted
7/12/08 5:55:55 AM#149

I played Warhammer tabletop for years.

Warhammer was NEVER about a collective good vs Evil.\

Many battles are fought between the evil and good.

Elves vs Dwarf.

Greenskin vs Skaven

Each race was it's OWN side.

This throwing all factions together in 2 cities really looses the Warhammer feel for me.

Sides have allied, BUT they were seperate, and not always allies.

 

This seems to be yet again going down the path of promise but no delivery.

What is wrong with MMO companies that they can't get a game out on time?

These companies seem to be waisting tons of cash.

  Psyren

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1

7/12/08 6:26:48 AM#150

Well what can I say?

 

Must admit I was slightly disappointed with the news but, not too the point of crying in my cereal.

Will I still buy the game, sure cant see why I wouldn’t.

Atm there is a massive rift in the MMO market, WOW walks around with a effing great crown on its head and 10 million subs, AOC seems to generate massive amounts of hate and rage. And now WAR comes into the firing line because of cut content before release.

Please people try and be subjective.

I sat and I played WOW now for nearly 3 and a half years, do I consider it a great game?

It had its moments but after such a long time and tbh a lack lustre expansion I'm more than ready to move on and try something new.  AOC really didn’t appeal to me and having seen some of the chaos that came with its launch I’m glad I didn’t jump straight in (firm believer in giving things a chance maybe in a few months).

WAR has been the one game that has truly drawn me towards playing MMO's again.

Anyway back to the topic. Kind of sad the classes got clipped but not being the type of player who only ever plays just one class, and the fact there’s still 20 of them with different play styles I cant understand those who are crying about losing the one class they where going to play?

Some of the "That’s it I’m not buying your game cause you removed XXXX is worrying. Sure we can get disappointed when something we are looking forward to doesn’t have the feature we so desire, but seriously out of all the classes you only wanted to play one??" Play a different one, you never know you might enjoy it or don’t buy the game it really is your choice.

As far as I’m concerned this isn’t all bad news and not really much of a surprise either (name a Modern MMO that came out with all the planned content intact)  - but at least they have been honest about it for that they deserve some credit.

Will be watching WAR closely, if after these pre release cuts, the final product is still sub par then they will lose my custom. But atm the thought of some decent PVP still has my interest piqued.

 

  Frankbunny

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/03
Posts: 2

7/12/08 6:36:47 AM#151

I was looking forward to war till the cut. -shrug- sounding too much like a vanguard thing now, all those promises and no delivery. I cancelled both my CE of it, but if I hear good things after it's release I might consider getting the regular version.

  Martiander

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/03
Posts: 17

7/12/08 7:04:44 AM#152

I rarely post here.

 

Im a fan of the warhammer tabletop and was soooo lokking forward to this.

Maybe im just dumb, i dont know. But to me i seems that they move step by step away from the game and the universe im in love with.

 

I dont know if EA takes a part in this here. But the more i read .. the more i fear.

 

  MiLindi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/08
Posts: 1

7/12/08 7:58:07 AM#153

I haven't played games online - but I have played RPG computer games - I think that Mythic is doing the right thing - as a beginner MMO player (but experienced Warhammer player) I would rather have things working in the cities and have a career that will go somewhere to begin with.  I will still playe even though my Woodelves are not represented (yet!?).  Their decisions tell me thety want this game to fun and keep the players happy.

MiLindi

  Vortigon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/06
Posts: 724

RMT is for weak people.

7/12/08 8:05:07 AM#154

All Cities are in at release according to a new interview being posted at Tentonhammer this weekend.

Someone needs to lose their job over this.  Either at Mythic or someone who interviewed them.

  Burnthebed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/07
Posts: 452

Totally Brasome

7/12/08 9:25:08 AM#155

So, now some races have 4 classes and some have 3, and only 2 races actually have capitol cities? What fucking BS.

And they've had that british idiot babbling on about how awesome the game is, never once mentioning that these things were iffy.

Way to mislead  your community guys....pure faggotry.

The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.

  Blak0rk

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/08
Posts: 3

7/12/08 9:35:02 AM#156

I look at like this..quality over quantity.. nice to have both but if you had to choose one then obviously quality is best. They can always add quality content/classes later.plus.. there are 20 classes still lol.  Its not like we have lost 2/3 of the game content...the people saying that kind of stuff are being a bit emo. To me those classes looked sucky. Now I haven't played them but if they are going by what the beta test ppl were likeing and looking at the classes not being played, then it was a good move.

There are so many other classes that look sooo fricken awesome!

I can't wait for this game.

 

 

 

  Stradden

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/08/05
Posts: 6729

 
OP  7/12/08 9:40:47 AM#157
Originally posted by Vortigon

All Cities are in at release according to a new interview being posted at Tentonhammer this weekend.

Someone needs to lose their job over this.  Either at Mythic or someone who interviewed them.

 

What is it rexactly that you think that I should lose my job for? The interview that I reported was the interview given: bottom line.

I do appreciate your calling for my job though. That's always a great thing to read.

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

  adox

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/05
Posts: 4

7/12/08 10:11:16 AM#158

I wanted to play a Choppa! ordered a collector's edition and now I can't play my favourite class

I'm very angry with this I hope they put my class atleast in his first patch! or I'm not going to renew my subscription till they include Choppa's.

  viciousexe

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 123

I stared into the smile of death

7/12/08 11:06:32 AM#159

Look at these interent geniuses! A company screws up a large part of their game and just because they honestly tell you they did it, its all good in the hood!

So if someone was about to stab you with an ice pick, but six months before they did they warned you, wouldn't you still be a little pissed off?

Lets say little old ViciousEXE here wants to be an empire tank character. I'm not into greenskins or whatever the heck the white lion thing is or Dwarfs and I know everybody and their brother is gonna be chaos. So what am I to do? I can't wear my damn heavy armor and swing my virtual broadsword around now can I?

Doesn't it stand to reason that in this day and age in an mmo every race can have a tank class that wears heavy armor? I mean if anything don't give one to the orcs or the dark elves, races that have a combat doctrine that lends itself less to heavy armor, but Empire! Cmon! Where talking big mean german inspired knights here!

People who are sad about the changes to the game are not crying or b@tching, we are the ones who wanted to play this game and are mortified that this happened. If I just hated this game and never wanted to play it, would I be here, braving the innards of the cesspool of the internet, the mmorpg.com boards?

  jmd10222

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/04
Posts: 428

7/12/08 11:28:27 AM#160

As far as damaging the IP, read the premise of the when the mmo takes place. At this time in WAR history

the Elves are a dying race the dwarves are in heavy decline and the Empire is the major power in the

world. Chaos is the main threat to the world, and the Dark elves are only concerned with wiping out the

High elves. The Greenskins are being manipulated by the Dark elves to occupy the dwarves who are

honor bound to help the Empire (which they are doing against the hordes of Chaos). The High elves are

reluctant ,but agree to help the Empire dividing there forces.  The main powers are The Empire and the

Chaos forces. It makes since that the majority of the fighting is happening around Altdorf and Inevitable

City. They can and will add the other cities , but that can be done in episodic fashion. Im not worried about

the game and this was a good decision although it does suck , epically for those who wanted to play one

of the delayed classes, but there are still 20 classes to choose from.  The good thing about only two

capitals is that the RVR will be very heavy and alot of massive battles. When they add other cities the

battles will shift as the players all move to try a new place to siege. Good, bad or indifferent we shall see

when the game launches, but the lore of this IP has alot of room for growth which makes for a healthy f

uture for any MMO if the Devs do there job. Mythic has a good track record and the NDA keeps me from

saying more, but in the end everyone who is interested in WAR will have to decide for themselves.

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