Originally posted by Distaste

So Order has a magic tank and Destruction doesn't. Destruction has a heavy tank and Order doesn't. Not really a balanced trade in my eyes.

So what your saying is every faction should have a mirror? Some would say that makes for rather dull gameplay.

In my opinion, it gives one side a distinct advantage over the other, and a distinct disadvantage. You have to use tactics to exploit those weakness and play to your own strengths, and I think it makes for much more interesting gameplay.  DAoC had that, and I really liked that about it. It emphasizes that your choices have consequences. Picking one faction over they other when they're equal essentially makes it a choice of aesthetics.. and that doesn't intereset me.

Originally posted by Lethality

 My only real concern, that by removing capital cities, is that they weren;'t that integral to the game to begin with.

And if that's the case, I am a little less confident in this title. The world and origins of races should play big into this game world!

Ugh..

Actually my friend they removed the 4 cities so we could enjoy 2 cities perfectly made unlike any others in any mmorpg

Originally posted by Lethality

 My only real concern, that by removing capital cities, is that they weren;'t that integral to the game to begin with.

And if that's the case, I am a little less confident in this title. The world and origins of races should play big into this game world!

Ugh..

On the contrary, they were, it wasn't an easy decision by a long shot. But to have empty lifeless cities and then Altdorf and the Inevitable City huge and full of life would have been disproportional. If they took the time to make 4 other capitals like Alt and I.C., we would be looking at a middle to late 2009 launch...almost a whole 'nother year. Too long! Hopefully they'll be added in an expansion, even if only two at a time.

Though...I'd rather they put in the cut classes first.

Sounds like Mythic is doing a bit of "wandering in the desert" to me.My confidence they will make a fall launch has dropped. What's the latest on ORIGINS..if anything   ?

Originally posted by cyricson

Originally posted by Lethality

 My only real concern, that by removing capital cities, is that they weren;'t that integral to the game to begin with.

And if that's the case, I am a little less confident in this title. The world and origins of races should play big into this game world!

Ugh..

 

Actually my friend they removed the 4 cities so we could enjoy 2 cities perfectly made unlike any others in any mmorpg

I understand that and respect it, but... what I meant was, if it's that simple to pull out the capital cities (even for quality reasons) they must have not been that integral to the game play and design.  I thought there would have been major game play subsystems that revolved around them, quest hubs, etc.

And also, it begs the question - when WILL we see them? As part of a patch soon after release? And what about the classes? No doubt there are some people bummed about certain classes being dropped that they no doubt were going to play... they want to know if they'll be in 2 months? 6 months? Paid expansion? etc.

I'm pritty much ok with the 2 city thing, if certain things are only accessable via the capitals then only having the 1 area to access them now whould mean losing that area is SO much more a bigger blow to the side, it's not like the 'oh dear, i'll just have to wander over to the other cities to do my stuff'... now it's 'WTF!!! I CAN'T DO ^%££% WHY THE &*%$£$ DID WE LOSE!', I'm liking this a little more.. but as players stated how willthis change the RVR, we dunno no one does, lets hope the beta testers and help figure it out (wish we all could but)

Class wise: yea we lose those 4 but... theres nothing stopping them adding them in later in a content update, sure it may hinder a few sales for players wanting to onlyy play those classes but i think it's goona be ok.

I'll preface this by saying that I am extremely excited about this game, have followed its development since the beginning, and already have the pre-order.

But guys come on, all this "cup half full" talk is a bit disheartening.  It is not a good thing that they are cutting 2/3 of the city content.  It is not a good thing that after this long they are cutting 4 classes because they are "not good enough".

But even beyond that, I am a bit scared watching the videos.  I am the only person (aka, non WAR troll), who thinks that in the videos that have been shown, the action and fighting looks extremely slow and static?  Say what you will about WOW PVP and all the ludicrous jumping, from what I have seen in these videos the PVP is standing there bashing the other guy........very slowly.  Even watching the videos of the goblin exploring the Inev city, don't you think the run movements look extremely.....awkward?  It should look better by now.

I'm worried about my game.

I was really looking forward to this game being Warhammer in a DAOC fashion with great realm vs realm, and you guys couldn't even get the realm vs realm right. So now we only get 2 capital cities instead of 6?! How are the servers going to handle thousands of players in each capital city and continual fights over these very large cities?  They won't be able to handle the lag, nor will many of the playerbase have computers able to handle it. I mean at least give us some fortresses to fight over and claim in the game zones.

What happens when a guild of 200 all reach top level and start to continually raid the opposing capital city a few days after launch? Many player won't be able to do any quests in that Capital city.  6 capital cities would have alleviated this issue.

I figure EA told you guys to hold off on 4 classes to include in an expansion pack... we're not dumb enough to think you couldn't get them "right."

It feels like Mythic is really catering this game to the masses. Turning it into a clone of WoW in attempts to draw more players, while killing off the pvp aspect of realm vs realm, bottlenecking the players in 2 lag filled capital cities, and keeping content out of the game to release in future expansion packs.

You guys really blew it, I was looking forward to an epic game, but I've decided to cancel my CEdition Pre-Order.  Its not worth the price losing 4 cities and 4 classes and who knows what else after the game was already delayed a year. 

Originally posted by Lethality

<snip/>

I understand that and respect it, but... what I meant was, if it's that simple to pull out the capital cities (even for quality reasons) they must have not been that integral to the game play and design.  I thought there would have been major game play subsystems that revolved around them, quest hubs, etc.

And also, it begs the question - when WILL we see them? As part of a patch soon after release? And what about the classes? No doubt there are some people bummed about certain classes being dropped that they no doubt were going to play... they want to know if they'll be in 2 months? 6 months? Paid expansion? etc.

I wonder if they've just removed the tier-4 zones for greenskin/dwarves and high/dark elves and the quests are now re-directed to the tier-4 zones in empire/chaos?

Might make more sense to do the 'switch' at the tier threshold rather than just remove the capitol city section of tier 4?

It might even be that the capitol cities will be there (in part at least) - but just can't be captured by the opposing factions yet?

Originally posted by Arawon

Sounds like Mythic is doing a bit of "wandering in the desert" to me.My confidence they will make a fall launch has dropped. What's the latest on ORIGINS..if anything   ?

...how is this wandering in the desert?  They want to make their fall launch they know 4 cities would not have been finished on the level of the current 2 that are being worked on...so they decided we only launch with 2 concentrate our efforts on those 2 make them awsome so we reach launch instead of waiting another year or MORE to have 6 six cities.   How does that shoot your confidence down? I mean how does what you say make sense?    No one has EVER seen the other 4 cities that tells me if they'd wait to launch with all six we wouldn't see them until next fall maybe later and that would honestly suck.  

Seiging is in, keeps are in, dungeons are in, lots of classes are in, 2 king encounters in, lots of gear in...boo hoo there's not 6 cities but we can still seige & pvp so what does it matter?  We can do all the things they promised just not in 6 different locations.

You guys all complain when companies release subpar content but when a company makes a decision to hold off on unready content you cry about it. Its totally a lose lose situation no matter which way they go but I'm honestly glad to know we'll get 2 awsome cities instead 2 ok and 4 subpar and a bunch of broken. 

http://www.war-rvr.net/  go here if you want ORIGINS news its pretty awsome right now.

Originally posted by KnightTrue

I was really looking forward to this game being Warhammer in a DAOC fashion with great realm vs realm, and you guys couldn't even get the realm vs realm right. So now we only get 2 capital cities instead of 6?! How are the servers going to handle thousands of players in each capital city and continual fights over these very large cities?  They won't be able to handle the lag, nor will many of the playerbase have computers able to handle it. I mean at least give us some fortresses to fight over and claim in the game zones.

 

What happens when a guild of 200 all reach top level and start to continually raid the opposing capital city a few days after launch? Many player won't be able to do any quests in that Capital city.  6 capital cities would have alleviated this issue.

 

I figure EA told you guys to hold off on 4 classes to include in an expansion pack... we're not dumb enough to think you couldn't get them "right."

 

It feels like Mythic is really catering this game to the masses. Turning it into a clone of WoW in attempts to draw more players, while killing off the pvp aspect of realm vs realm, bottlenecking the players in 2 lag filled capital cities, and keeping content out of the game to release in future expansion packs.

You guys really blew it, I was looking forward to an epic game, but I've decided to cancel my CEdition Pre-Order.  Its not worth the price losing 4 cities and 4 classes and who knows what else after the game was already delayed a year. 

Takes more than 200 people to siege the city its is not a guild event.  So nice try at the trolling lol. 

Originally posted by kintrik

ok.....

Couple of questions then.

Since there are onyl goign to be 2 capitol cities how is that going to affect the tiers? It has been said for over a year that each racial paring has teiar 1-4 and tier 4 has t he capitols in them. Now that the other teir 4 zones dont' have capitols what is the poitn for those zones? Will the influence points spill over to the empire/chaos teir 4 zone to determine if a city can be attacked? Are they removing All of the other races areas? I know they said the other cities will be added post launch, but how long after launch are they targetting? Some answers on this front need to be answered if they expect to keep some customers. Me for one, as I am dwarf player.

For the classes, so that leaves Chaos and High Elfs with 4 classes each and the others with 3.

Yea, this news greatly saddened me. Really wasn't something I wanted to wake up too in the morning. But I respect Mark and the company for telling us this news face to face,so to speak. The punkbuster tidbit seemed a little extreme, but we'll see how it effects the game's hackers and cheaters in the coming months if implemented.

I did almost fall off my chair after reading the capitol city announcment. But Mythic sticks to thier promises, tells the truth, and does try to fix things. After years of running DAOC they have plenty of data concerning successes and mistakes. While watching both the empire and chaos capital city run threw I did notice they were both extremely large, yet scarecly populated with npcs. Which got me thinking a bit last night. You can hate the company, but at least respect them. They were stuck between an anvil and a hammer. They had postponed the game before, because they wished to make a better experience to players, to increase the quality of the greenskin and dwarf zones and expand on the empire and chaos areas.Now this time they could have either pushed the release date which would have been a early 2009 release date, or improve immensly on what they have and make it good to the players without releasing a game that had flaws and needed improvments. I can see logic in the decision made. My only concern is how this will effect racial pairing and tier rvr.

The classes was an even bigger bomb, i can live with two content filled cities until the release of more.But I once again respect them for dropping four of thier brain children, whom they tweaked and worked on for months if not years. I had only wished other game developers would have done the same to some boring classes and try to balance and add new ones. The KotBS wasn't that much of a suprise. I didn't find him too interesting even in context. The choppa was a suprise to me as I'm sure it was to everyone. The hammerer also hit home with me too. The Black guard seemed an interesting career and I'm suprised that interest in him wasn't all too great. Mythic looked at the overall data and looked at the classes that people weren't using as a whole and decided to change.

While some people may have decided to quit after this article. I still have trust and faith in Mythic and this warhammer adaptation. I'm going to play the game and try to enjoy it . If after three months of play content promised isn't even shown to be soon released then I'll start changing my opinions. Until then, War is still coming.

Great writeup and good read.  I think taking the highroad is always the better alternative regardless of the repercussions. At the end of the day I thank them for being straight shooters with us all this makes my decision in purchasing the game easy.  I will buy the game becuase they actually care about their client base.  This is the best article I read all week, thanks again for all your folks hard work over at mmorpg.

PS. not sad about the 4 classes being dropped, I'm being a witch hunter anyways, hehe.

Well its Mark, so if he thinks something is going to be released half-assed it most likely wont make it out.

It is a let down that the other 4 cities will not be in at launch, but if it means they have some time to make the other four as massive and amazing as Altdorf and The Inevitable City I have no problems.

The only thing I am disappointed in is the four classes that won't make it in. I am sure there are difficulties getting things to work with some of the classes, but I would love to see Mythic do thier best to get the Orc Choppa and the Dwarf Hammerer into the game. Though.... the Germans may be disappointed in not having the Blackguard. I was planning on making a Knight of the Blazing Sun myself, but I can try something else. The announcement is disappointing yes, but..... atleast they told us.

Regardless, I'll be in the game at launch. Atleast I will have something to look forward to while in-game.

Odin's Beard, people.  It seems to be time for another vocabulary lesson!

"Capitol" with an O is used only when referring to the building (not the city) where a legislative body meets.  (And when you are talking about the one in Washington, D.C., it should be capitalized.) 

"Capital" with an A is for everything else: cities, letters, an idea -- everything else.

Unless the political systems in WAR are far more advanced than they've let on, the word "capitol" with an O is generally unwarranted.

From WHA's James - A Mythic CM:

Hey guys,

It's important to remember a few key facts:

A) The game is still in development, it's important that we make the right decisions to have a successful launch.
B) We want to make a great game, not a good game. I think we can all agree that playing a career that wasn't up to par with our standards doesn't accomplish that.
C) Capital cities require you to capture 2 of the 3 campaigns. We'll have a much more informative explanation of how city capture works but it's now even more challenging and requires the cooperation of the entire realm to march to the gates of your enemies city and conquer their king, which in the end was always our goal.

WAR, while now different, is more exciting and engaging then ever before and the cities and careers provide an experience to look forward too

Soo it looks like we still need to win control over the zones to 'unlock' the cities still, just that it seems what was 'teir 4 part 3' (ie the city areas) seems to be now 'tier 5' which as he said makes the whole thing swing back and forth a whole lot more, so at least they thought about the impact removing cities would do and worked a new system around it without drastically changing the game, all is still good (thats if those 4 classes aren't gone for good)

Originally posted by Coldren

Originally posted by Distaste

So Order has a magic tank and Destruction doesn't. Destruction has a heavy tank and Order doesn't. Not really a balanced trade in my eyes.

 

So what your saying is every faction should have a mirror? Some would say that makes for rather dull gameplay.

In my opinion, it gives one side a distinct advantage over the other, and a distinct disadvantage. You have to use tactics to exploit those weakness and play to your own strengths, and I think it makes for much more interesting gameplay.  DAoC had that, and I really liked that about it. It emphasizes that your choices have consequences. Picking one faction over they other when they're equal essentially makes it a choice of aesthetics.. and that doesn't intereset me.

I guess I should have explained a bit further!

Since 2 of the Melee DPS have been removed that means there are more classes that can do ranged damage then there are classes that will use melee. So it would be advantages to have a tank that can deal with ranged damage since they are better against more opponents than it is to have a tank that is better against melee which there are less of.

So a magical tank is worth more since there are more ranged classes.

A physical tank is worth less since there are less melee.

As for Shadow warriors, Squig herders, and the swordmaster I don't quite know the mechanics of what type of damage they do nor what all damage the swordmaster is best at absorbing(magical obviously but does that include all ranged?)

These choice must have taken a lot guts to make and to go public with, much respect to them for that.

The decision to hold back the last four cities is great to be honest, since as said in the interview when they are finally in the game they'll likely outshine the first two in content and polish.

As for the four careers they axed, one can only hope they will implement 2 more class pairings to compensate at a later date (this will happen it's inevitable, if only for game symmetry). There are plenty of choices for replacement careers from the IP (I will have to research this of course).

*Sigh* no Blackguard

Originally posted by andmiller

I'll preface this by saying that I am extremely excited about this game, have followed its development since the beginning, and already have the pre-order.

But guys come on, all this "cup half full" talk is a bit disheartening.  It is not a good thing that they are cutting 2/3 of the city content.  It is not a good thing that after this long they are cutting 4 classes because they are "not good enough".

 

But even beyond that, I am a bit scared watching the videos.  I am the only person (aka, non WAR troll), who thinks that in the videos that have been shown, the action and fighting looks extremely slow and static?  Say what you will about WOW PVP and all the ludicrous jumping, from what I have seen in these videos the PVP is standing there bashing the other guy........very slowly.  Even watching the videos of the goblin exploring the Inev city, don't you think the run movements look extremely.....awkward?  It should look better by now.

I'm worried about my game.

Of course it's not a good thing, and we can all be upset and cry about a decision that was hard to make but one that's already been made, hopefully for the overall good of the game. Mythic never said the cities are gone forever, and they're thinking about adding in the classes later. The "glass half full" view is the only logical one to take, because even though this is bad, there's still alot of good things in the game.

As for combat, most of those people don't even use skills or don't use them effectively. Beta testers have said it's on-par with WoW when it comes to speed, so you'll really have to play it to judge for yourself. It looks slow, but the vids usually have either casters or giant Chosens with 2H axes...which are slow. Animations are quirky but they are the last things to be polished so I wouldn't worry about that yet.

I think they should delay the launch with what is going on...  I wonder if they would have taken this same route if they didn't have AoC as an example.  Either way I don't think the game is ready to launch when they are launching it.