Originally posted by Hauken

Originally posted by huxflux2004

Originally posted by Keeper2000

Tasos does his job well... he is the Hype Machine and for investing like 10 min per week to it... he does a GREAT job, imo.

 

 

Have you heard of Brad McQuaid?

 

Brad is a true leader in the MMO business....

LMAO.

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by gotha

Did any of you bright bright people ever think of having a an actual greek translation the article instead of using google translator.  That would filter out a lot of the inaccuracies we think we are seeing.  After you do that you could easily bring them point for point to the gameworlds.gr people and actually get some real answers.

 

Just think it would be a better idea then emailing them like a patronizing idiot using a crub google translation.

 

You could also just ask Galadron since he is greek,  and probably has a shtload better position on this article then most of us non greek speakers.

 

Then once you get that done,  email the gamesworld fellow back asking him about work exp.  and the necron quote.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the main point of concern in relation to Tasos's interview, is his past experience. But there is no way any of us can verify this information (other than asking Tasos directly )

But I have already proven beyond reasonable doubt that Tasos never worked on Age of Empires, Ashersons Call, Messiah or for Microsoft, Turbine, Ensemble Studios or Shiney Entertainament.

Originally posted by gotha

Did any of you bright bright people ever think of having a an actual greek translation the article instead of using google translator.  That would filter out a lot of the inaccuracies we think we are seeing.  After you do that you could easily bring them point for point to the gameworlds.gr people and actually get some real answers.

 

Just think it would be a better idea then emailing them like a patronizing idiot using a crub google translation.

 

You could also just ask Galadron since he is greek,  and probably has a shtload better position on this article then most of us non greek speakers.

 

Then once you get that done,  email the gamesworld fellow back asking him about work exp.  and the necron quote.

The google translator is not going to make up Tasos' claimed prior work experience, which we all know is false as hell.

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by gotha

Did any of you bright bright people ever think of having a an actual greek translation the article instead of using google translator.  That would filter out a lot of the inaccuracies we think we are seeing.  After you do that you could easily bring them point for point to the gameworlds.gr people and actually get some real answers.

 

Just think it would be a better idea then emailing them like a patronizing idiot using a crub google translation.

 

You could also just ask Galadron since he is greek,  and probably has a shtload better position on this article then most of us non greek speakers.

 

Then once you get that done,  email the gamesworld fellow back asking him about work exp.  and the necron quote.

 

The google translator is not going to make up Tasos' claimed prior work experience, which we all know is false as hell.

And several Greek speakers on this site have already confirmed that the claims and statements made by Tasos are fundamentally correct in the google translation, if they read this perhaps they could confirm that again.

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by gotha

Did any of you bright bright people ever think of having a an actual greek translation the article instead of using google translator.  That would filter out a lot of the inaccuracies we think we are seeing.  After you do that you could easily bring them point for point to the gameworlds.gr people and actually get some real answers.

 

Just think it would be a better idea then emailing them like a patronizing idiot using a crub google translation.

 

You could also just ask Galadron since he is greek,  and probably has a shtload better position on this article then most of us non greek speakers.

 

Then once you get that done,  email the gamesworld fellow back asking him about work exp.  and the necron quote.

 

The google translator is not going to make up Tasos' claimed prior work experience, which we all know is false as hell.

And several Greek speakers on this site have already confirmed that the claims and statements made by Tasos are fundamentally correct in the google translation, if they read this perhaps they could confirm that again.

 

 

 

 

The article also states he works for microsoft twice and that darkfall under razorwax was called neocron.

I am wondering if was talking about what he said,  what he did in those companies.  There is a lot one can do that does not get accredited in credits.

Polar also emailed this fellow in the most unprofessional and stupid trollish manner like he was posting on some damn mmo forum.  Any magazine editor would not spend more then a half minutes ass responce to that .

Originally posted by Polarization

Because his name does not even appear as even an intern or a tester on any of the credits for any of those games or from the people credited from the company’s involved in their creation.

But I have already proven beyond reasonable doubt that Tasos never worked on Age of Empires, Ashersons Call, Messiah or for Microsoft, Turbine, Ensemble Studios or Shiney Entertainament.

 

Checking the credits in a CD case is a fool-proof  way of finding out whether someone has actually participated in the project.\

There are many levels of participation, from actual coding to administrative work and, given Tasos' young age, it'd be safe to assume that his (any) involvement in  those projects would have been of the latter type.

Originally posted by Galadourn

Checking the credits in a CD case is a fool-proof  way of finding out whether someone has actually participated in the project.\

Please check the thread that I linked too, I found all the full and extensive credits online for all the games and company’s related to them that he apparently said he worked for/on at the Greek conference.

He’s is not mentioned on any of them even as a tester, intern, admin, or even in special thanks or as a miscellaneous contributor.

There are many levels of participation, from actual coding to administrative work and, given Tasos' young age, it'd be safe to assume that his (any) involvement in  those projects would have been of the latter type.

I personally could claim I have worked for these company’s and game’s but no one would believe me unless I was on the credits, whey do you still give Tasos the benefit of the doubt and ignore the clear evidence suggesting that he either lied or grossly exaggerated his involvement?

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by Galadourn

Checking the credits in a CD case is a fool-proof  way of finding out whether someone has actually participated in the project.\

Please check the thread that I linked too, I found all the full and extensive credits online for all the games and company’s related to them that he apparently said he worked for/on at the Greek conference.

He’s is not mentioned on any of them even as a tester, intern, admin, or even in special thanks or as a miscellaneous contributor.

There are many levels of participation, from actual coding to administrative work and, given Tasos' young age, it'd be safe to assume that his (any) involvement in  those projects would have been of the latter type.

I personally could claim I have worked for these company’s and game’s but no one would believe me unless I was on the credits, whey do you still give Tasos the benefit of the doubt and ignore the clear evidence suggesting that he either lied or grossly exaggerated his involvement?

 

If he lied or exaggerated does that really change anything?  Who hasn't exaggerated on a resume ah?  Now, heres the rub though, if he had the audacity to say he worked for these companies and have this work published, don't you think one of these other companies would request a retraction of the statement.

This is, afterall, a news article.

And as for the confusion, have you ever heard the phrase "Thats greek to me."   ... well perhaps they came up with it because even greek people can't understand eachother.   

joking of course

Regardless, I don't think this really has changed anything as far as my view on darkfalls development.   But almost..... ...

Originally posted by gotha

 

The article also states he works for microsoft twice and that darkfall under razorwax was called neocron.

Its actually 3 times because he claims to of worked for MSN gaming zone, and on Age of Empires, which was published by Microsoft, and on Asheron’s Call also published by Microsoft.

He’s already clarified that he actually said Aventurine considered looking at Neocron as a title to be involved with before Darkfall, do try and keep up.

I am wondering if was talking about what he said,  what he did in those companies.  There is a lot one can do that does not get accredited in credits.

Please explain exactly what one can do at a company that will not get you listed on the credits for a game but can still be reasonably constituted as previous experience in game development.

Things like janitor or working in cafeteria don’t, perhaps he meant he was a public beta tester for these games and company‘s, in which case by Tasos standards makes most of us all game developers, yay!

Polar also emailed this fellow in the most unprofessional and stupid trollish manner like he was posting on some damn mmo forum.  Any magazine editor would not spend more then a half minutes ass responce to that .

What are you talking about?, I have not idea.

 

Originally posted by maskedweasel

If he lied or exaggerated does that really change anything?  Who hasn't exaggerated on a resume ah?  Now, heres the rub though, if he had the audacity to say he worked for these companies and have this work published, don't you think one of these other companies would request a retraction of the statement.

This is, afterall, a news article.

And as for the confusion, have you ever heard the phrase "Thats greek to me."   ... well perhaps they came up with it because even greek people can't understand eachother.   

joking of course

Regardless, I don't think this really has changed anything as far as my view on darkfalls development.   But almost..... ...

Nobody apart from a relatively small number of English speaking fans following Darkfall are aware of that obscure article, there will never be a retraction or a correction, he’s accused the article of being at fault and that’s the end of the story for the majority of the supporters.

Aventurine and Darkfall have almost zero credibility or main stream media coverage anymore, so nobody will probably even notice.

That’s why Tasos thought he could get away with saying those things, and he pretty much has, except I found it, so he simply accused it of being incorrect.

It had the desired effect because he has appeared professional and credible to the other Greek game developers, which is what its all about with him, keeping up appearances and impressing potential investors and publishers.

He’s now on the board of members setting up a new “Greek game developers Club”, and no doubt got lots more offers from Greek developers willing to work for low wages and long hours, and even more interns and students to “professionally test” the game for free.

All in all a good days work for Tasos, pity it did not include demonstrating anything new about the game though, but why change a winning formula.

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by maskedweasel

If he lied or exaggerated does that really change anything?  Who hasn't exaggerated on a resume ah?  Now, heres the rub though, if he had the audacity to say he worked for these companies and have this work published, don't you think one of these other companies would request a retraction of the statement.

This is, afterall, a news article.

And as for the confusion, have you ever heard the phrase "Thats greek to me."   ... well perhaps they came up with it because even greek people can't understand eachother.   

joking of course

Regardless, I don't think this really has changed anything as far as my view on darkfalls development.   But almost..... ...

 

 

 

Nobody apart from a relatively small number of English speaking fans following Darkfall are aware of that obscure article, there will never be a retraction or a correction, he’s accused the article of being at fault and that’s the end of the story for the majority of the supporters.

Aventurine and Darkfall have almost zero credibility or main stream media coverage anymore, so nobody will probably even notice.

That’s why Tasos thought he could get away with saying those things, and he pretty much has, except I found it, so he simply accused it of being incorrect.

It had the desired effect because he has appeared professional and credible to the other Greek game developers, which is what its all about with him, keeping up appearances and impressing potential investors and publishers.

He’s now on the board of members setting up a new “Greek game developers Club”, and no doubt got lots more offers from Greek developers willing to work for low wages and long hours, and even more interns and students to “professionally test” the game for free.

All in all a good days work for Tasos, pity it did not include demonstrating anything new about the game though, but why change a winning formula.

Master Polar! You have done it sir! You have defeated the dreaded Flampouras and ended his reign of tyranny.  That should teach him never to exaggerate again!

Hey when your greek, you're greek, can't complain about that, I've said it before, we can't force Tasos to run his PR efficiently, correctly, or smoothly.  Lately he's made a number of blunders -- can't say it hasn't happened before in an MMO -- but this is different because a large "fanbase" is nitpicking on a game that hasn't released.

Don't get me wrong, I get it, Tasos is a PR magician, using his magic video wand, and verbal slight-of-hand to trick the masses into believing DarkFall is something that it isn't.

Unfortunately for us masses, we can't prove or disprove anything which puts us in a spot. 

I'm just saying with how vague he's been all along, all it is, is a time waster.  He's biding time... for what.. .well I don't know.  Maybe he's waiting until they run out of money.  "Hey guys we had a good run, lets pack up and go home."  Or maybe he actually believe they will launch this game. 

Why do you think he's stalling for time?

Originally posted by gotha

Polar also emailed this fellow in the most unprofessional and stupid trollish manner like he was posting on some damn mmo forum.  Any magazine editor would not spend more then a half minutes ass responce to that .

 

You don't read anything before opening your pie-hole, do you? Go back to the top and S--L--O--W--L--Y read it again.

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by Polarization

Because his name does not even appear as even an intern or a tester on any of the credits for any of those games or from the people credited from the company’s involved in their creation.

But I have already proven beyond reasonable doubt that Tasos never worked on Age of Empires, Ashersons Call, Messiah or for Microsoft, Turbine, Ensemble Studios or Shiney Entertainament.

 

Checking the credits in a CD case is a fool-proof  way of finding out whether someone has actually participated in the project.\

There are many levels of participation, from actual coding to administrative work and, given Tasos' young age, it'd be safe to assume that his (any) involvement in  those projects would have been of the latter type.

Wait...you're serious? You think it's safer to assume he held some uncredited administrative positions in 4 different projects than it is to assume he had nothing to do with them because his name can't be found in relation to any of them.

To anyone that said it's acceptable to falsify credentials in public, or worse, a professional environment, please reconsider defending who or what you're defending if you need to continuously lower your standards in order to make their actions justifiable.

If the article is to blame, then that's an easy fix, as demonstrated by other companies that were misrepresented, yet Aventurine only sent one correction and then confirmation. If Anastasios Flampouras or Tasos Flambouras or whatever his real name is, lied or fabricated anything then one is prone to believe he may have done so before and elsewhere, under less scrutiny. To believe otherwise is naive.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Master Polar! You have done it sir! You have defeated the dreaded Flampouras and ended his reign of tyranny.  That should teach him never to exaggerate again!

Hey when your greek, you're greek, can't complain about that, I've said it before, we can't force Tasos to run his PR efficiently, correctly, or smoothly.  Lately he's made a number of blunders -- can't say it hasn't happened before in an MMO -- but this is different because a large "fanbase" is nitpicking on a game that hasn't released.

Don't get me wrong, I get it, Tasos is a PR magician, using his magic video wand, and verbal slight-of-hand to trick the masses into believing DarkFall is something that it isn't.

Unfortunately for us masses, we can't prove or disprove anything which puts us in a spot. 

I'm just saying with how vague he's been all along, all it is, is a time waster.  He's biding time... for what.. .well I don't know.  Maybe he's waiting until they run out of money.  "Hey guys we had a good run, lets pack up and go home."  Or maybe he actually believe they will launch this game. 

Why do you think he's stalling for time?

To get investors and publishers,

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Master Polar! You have done it sir! You have defeated the dreaded Flampouras and ended his reign of tyranny.  That should teach him never to exaggerate again!

Hey when your greek, you're greek, can't complain about that, I've said it before, we can't force Tasos to run his PR efficiently, correctly, or smoothly.  Lately he's made a number of blunders -- can't say it hasn't happened before in an MMO -- but this is different because a large "fanbase" is nitpicking on a game that hasn't released.

Don't get me wrong, I get it, Tasos is a PR magician, using his magic video wand, and verbal slight-of-hand to trick the masses into believing DarkFall is something that it isn't.

Unfortunately for us masses, we can't prove or disprove anything which puts us in a spot. 

I'm just saying with how vague he's been all along, all it is, is a time waster.  He's biding time... for what.. .well I don't know.  Maybe he's waiting until they run out of money.  "Hey guys we had a good run, lets pack up and go home."  Or maybe he actually believe they will launch this game. 

Why do you think he's stalling for time?

 

To get investors and publishers,

To “maintain” and “build” the community,

To promote and hype the product and the company,

To gain as much development time as possible,

To extend the time before launch or cancellation,

To pursue other business opportunity’s and obligations,

and to maintain the pretense of a successful and credible company.

Or maybe only some of the above, or maybe non.

I have no interest in “defeating” Tasos nor do I foolishly believe I will have any sort of victory over him, I marvel at his audacity and duplicity , and I’m fascinated and amused by his shenanigans.

To me personally its obvious he’s a charlatan and a manipulator of the highest order, he is the Wizard of Oz, and I think he’s been playing with smoke and mirrors for years, but I guess we wont really find out the truth till the end of the year.

I'm just pointing out that uncovering all of this information doesn't really change anything, nor change my personal views of DarkFall.  Not that I hold Adventurine in any particular high standard, but you've got to ask yourself, WHY     you just keep asking HOW.   

You seem to have no problems finding out how.   How Razor Wax went bust, How Tasos may or may not have lied about certain things,  or asking How Darkfall will pull off a launch in 2008.   Hey they're good questions, but you also have to take into account the WHY they are doing it.. and its purely to try and put this game out.

That in itself holds more weight then finding out what happened to their old company.  Because I don't care about that.  (Personally I don't care about the project as a whole really, I'm just playing Devils Advocate cause noone rational seems to try)        

So ultimately you've given us nothing more then old information about RazorWaxes demise, Tasos's name change, and his possible fibs on his affiliations.   What does that have to do with the project though?

We know its self funded.

We know the project is in development.

We know there are a purported 30 developers working on DarkFall.

We know that RazorWax (who supposedly had an early development of the game)  Staff merged with Adventurine . (Why did Razorwax go bankrupt years after the merger?)

We know that some indie games can take a longer then usual development time.

We know Adventurine said they have noone to Advertise for them, and an extremely poor Public Relations person (Tasos) who does more then just Public Relations (supposedly)

We know they showed a year old video at a conference a few weeks ago. (albiet it wasn't a major one) But they still believe on an 08 release. Not to mention Tasos mentioned in an update new videos were coming. (I think that was close to 3 weeks ago on his update)

I dunno --- still pretty early to tell whats going to happen.

Considering you said your only playing devils advocate, and you presume to declare that “We already know” a bunch of stuff that seems to be completely contradictory to pretty much all of what I think I know and have tried to demonstrate.

I am sorry maskedweasel, but to me, with statements like these:

"If he lied or exaggerated does that really change anything?  Who hasn't exaggerated on a resume ah?"

"Master Polar! You have done it sir! You have defeated the dreaded Flampouras and ended his reign of tyranny.  That should teach him never to exaggerate again!"

And especially:

"Hey they're good questions, but you also have to take into account the WHY they are doing it.. and its purely to try and put this game out."

You don't come off as a "rational Devil's Advocate" but rather as a less confrontational than average supporter whose faith is unshakable in the face of any new information. And yes, new information, because none of what Polarization has been posting was previously known, especially the real fate of Razorwax after the Aventurine "merger". So you seek to discount Polarization's finds because he can't find a clear motive, he has speculated on it (and speculate is all anyone can do without mind reading abilities), yet it's not good enough for you. What's good enough for you, however, is taking for granted your speculation as to why they're doing it, and somehow use that speculated end to justify the means.

Faith in the developers notwithstanding, how do you know this "Hey they're good questions, but you also have to take into account the WHY they are doing it.. and its purely to try and put this game out." to be true?

For starters Polarization

"And I already gave a brief list of obvious common sense reasons why they might have been behaving in this way, but your still asking me why they are."

Its all just to prove a point Polar, all I'm saying is that they're doing it for a reason.  You gave me possible reasons,  ONE of those reasons is that they're trying to launch this game.  I don't see how thats tough to understand.   The only other actual plausible reason is if they were trying to rip off investors and steal money that way -- which is illegal and punishable by imprisonment.

"nd you have decided that I have only provided “old information” that you apparently don’t consider has anything to do with the project."

Face it Polar, this is old information.  It happened  years ago, uncovering it now doesn't make it any newer.  I don't think it has anything to do with the actual project -- no I don't --  and personally I could care less if Adventurine releases DarkFall or if SOE does after they buy it off them like they did with Sigil and Vanguard.  Running out of money has no validity on the actual project bub, thats all I'm saying.

"And you still seem to believe that Tasos will release that comprehensive game play video he mentioned 2 months ago “soon”.

Hey, whether or not we get a video it doesn't bother me -- I'm just repeating what information I have to go on -- and that is basically that they have no PR person or Advertising agent, which usually would be responsible for putting together Trailers and such.  Personally I'd like to wait til the end of 08 (not like I have much of a choice) to see how things pan out.      I expect you'll do the same whether you like it or not too.    If we see a video great, if not,  then I guess we'll just keep "waiting" for Darkfall.

Well, with a 2008 release date that they claim to be "FIRM" I stand to reason yes, this is too early.  Development times really don't mean anything to me... I heard about them shooting a Max Payne movie back in 2003 and I was really excited.. turns out they might shoot it and it will actually come out this year.  I'm not holding my breath, but they say its pretty firm too.  I'll wait and see --- thats all I'm saying.

SILVARCH buddy,

"I am sorry maskedweasel, but to me, with statements like these:

"If he lied or exaggerated does that really change anything?  Who hasn't exaggerated on a resume ah?"

"Master Polar! You have done it sir! You have defeated the dreaded Flampouras and ended his reign of tyranny.  That should teach him never to exaggerate again!"

These were both jokes, the first one was a half-joke the second one was a crack at polar cause I thought it was funny -- he single handedly saved the world from a potential liar.  Thats funny to me.  I like Polar, don't get me wrong, I just feel the way he worded it sounded a little dramatic.

Faith in the developers notwithstanding, how do you know this "Hey they're good questions, but you also have to take into account the WHY they are doing it.. and its purely to try and put this game out." to be true?

How do I know that its true?  The same reasons you know its not true. The game is in development, if it ISNT in development then Adventurine is in very big trouble legally.  Either way I'm happy.  Even if development goes on for 30 more years I'll be happy.. I'm really not as avid a supporter as you claim --- but for this forum.. and for you Silvarch, I will be.

As I stated before, until the game is no longer in development, launched, sold, or actually confirmed as a hoax all information pertaining to the speculation in regards to darkfall and or its developers means very little to me.  I'm a big picture kinda guy.  All these little things don't change the big picture for me, maybe if you explain to me exactly how Tasos saying he worked in development for Microsoft when he really brought Bill Gates his coffee really changes that a game named DarkFall is in development and has a suposed release date of 2008 then I would gladly change my stand.

Plus if you guys read all this I'll send you both lollypops.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

The game is in development, if it ISNT in development then Adventurine is in very big trouble legally. 

Why would they be in trouble? They have no investors other then themselves. They can sit around jerking off for another 7 years telling morons that the game will be out next year.

Either way I'm happy.  Even if development goes on for 30 more years I'll be happy..

That's a pretty idiotic statement. lol

Fact of the matter is Darkfall will never be what they want it to be...   ever..  

It's a failure waiting to launch or waiting to be cancelled.
 

Originally posted by BoldSaxon

Originally posted by maskedweasel

The game is in development, if it ISNT in development then Adventurine is in very big trouble legally. 

Why would they be in trouble? They have no investors other then themselves. They can sit around jerking off for another 7 years telling morons that the game will be out next year.

Either way I'm happy.  Even if development goes on for 30 more years I'll be happy..

That's a pretty idiotic statement. lol

Fact of the matter is Darkfall will never be what they want it to be...   ever..  

It's a failure waiting to launch or waiting to be cancelled.

 

They're self funded for the most part, but if they say they're developing a game when in turn they're just trying to lure investors to take their money then.. yeah buddy thats illegal.

Secondly.. I think you misunderstood why I'd be happy if development goes on for another 30 years.... ..... .... mainly cause I don't care if the game releases or not.  I'm not waiting by the PC mouse at the ready to click Download when the DF beta comes out.   I just don't care.. I'll be happy if it NEVER RELEASES.. I'll  also be happy when I get something to eat... and doubly happy if I have sex tonight.

Does that clear it up for ya buddy?

as to your edit.. that I added.

Its not ridiculous to wait for DarkFall to launch or fail... in fact.. your waiting for darkfall right now.  You're also waiting for spore, the sun to explode, Batman: The Dark Knight, and dinnertime.     Time moves forward, and we wait -- what comes while time passes doesn't really matter if you really look at it.