Not sure who this gentleman is, other than he used to be a game developer. He brings up some interesting issues and facts about the strategy of releasing unpolished mmo's. Not just AoC, but most mmo's that fall victim to this trap. http://www.massively.com/2008/07/03/ask-massively-be-careful-what-you-ask-for/  SWG was a big violator of releasing too early..  Anyway, thought some might like to read it.

He is so right... lets have movies that are too expensive released with a bad audio track, or missing scenes because.. well they ran out of money. Or cars with some gears not working or three wheels. We have to understand the problems the companies have. And pay and make them rich

Definitly interesting artical, but it's a shame that i feel not everyone will understand it. I already just saw the first reply.

Originally posted by altairzq

He is so right... lets have movies that are too expensive released with a bad audio track, or missing scenes because.. well they ran out of money. Or cars with some gears not working or three wheels. We have to understand the problems the companies have. And pay and make them rich

Yeah, it sure brings up and interesting debate. How is it, this one of the few industries that can get away with making a profit on an incomplete product. What's even more interesting, why do some hand over their hard earned money for a product that is half-assed?   I'm guilty!  however, it can't be avoided when dealing with computer software.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Definitly interesting artical, but it's a shame that i feel not everyone will understand it. I already just saw the first reply.

I probably should have posted it in 'general" not to single out AoC , but all mmo's in general.  It's kinda a rhetorical question also, that we pay for something that is not complete.. but that's the nature of the beast when it involves comuter programs.

I read it all. It was interesting.

Originally posted by airborne519

   however, it can't be avoided when dealing with computer software.

Sure it can.

It's always been my rule to not play MMO's when they are released. Even ones that get good reviews, because they all get good reviews and the reviews are always BS.

I did pay for AOC at release though because I work with some impatient types and we play these games together and now they know better. I will also buy Warhammer but thats only because it's Mythic and I've played DAOC since Mid 2002, about 6 months after release. That was one of the few MMO's released without 1000000 bugs and instability issues.

Nice article, shame he didnt bring up the more serious issues like missing out features and content on release. They cant go under bugs since they dont fail to work, they dont exist yet. Else I can agree on that Funcom released it at a good time to try and maximize profit cause lack of competition. Problem is just that they lied about what would be ingame at release and wasnt and alot still isnt.

Originally posted by airborne519

Originally posted by Reklaw

Definitly interesting artical, but it's a shame that i feel not everyone will understand it. I already just saw the first reply.

 

I probably should have posted it in 'general" not to single out AoC , but all mmo's in general.  It's kinda a rhetorical question also, that we pay for something that is not complete.. but that's the nature of the beast when it involves comuter programs.

Nah.....this is a good topic and intresting, he does cover mostly AoC so it's pefectly alright to see it in this section. Just wish/hope that people would actualy read AND understand what is been said in that articel.

Originally posted by lolhahaha

Originally posted by airborne519

   however, it can't be avoided when dealing with computer software.

Sure it can.

It's always been my rule to not play MMO's when they are released. Even ones that get good reviews, because they all get good reviews and the reviews are always BS.

I did pay for AOC at release though because I work with some impatient types and we play these games together and now they know better. I will also buy Warhammer but thats only because it's Mythic and I've played DAOC since Mid 2002, about 6 months after release. That was one of the few MMO's released without 1000000 bugs and instability issues.

You dont seem to follow your rules very often mate.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by airborne519

Originally posted by Reklaw

Definitly interesting artical, but it's a shame that i feel not everyone will understand it. I already just saw the first reply.

 

I probably should have posted it in 'general" not to single out AoC , but all mmo's in general.  It's kinda a rhetorical question also, that we pay for something that is not complete.. but that's the nature of the beast when it involves comuter programs.

 

Nah.....this is a good topic and intresting, he does cover mostly AoC so it's pefectly alright to see it in this section. Just wish/hope that people would actualy read AND understand what is been said in that articel.

I have read it and do understand it. But why should i trust in a blogger on the net ?

This is all nice talking but one of the biggest time and money sink are bad/outdated developing methods.

Look at stack sizes. Why does almost any game has to patch stack sizes after release ? Any database designer knows that a stack of 10.000 is the same as a stack of 5. Its one record, but two stacks of 5 are two records. The database interface and backend of an mmo is nowadays one of the critcal bottlenecks. Loot lag anyone ? Still devs release games with placeholder stacks of 5. It doesnt cost money or time to just release with a freaking stack size of 99 per default. Does it ?

The same with icons. Yeah i know, two different dev teams. Still, cant they come up with a system that makes sure that at least 98% of all items have the right icons from start and not placeholders ? I bet i could.

Ofc a game needs some artistic freedom and room for changes. But its such a waste to fix things by going through endless iterations. Things that could have been done right the first time. That would save iteration cycles for the real problems.

Originally posted by huxflux2004

Originally posted by lolhahaha

Originally posted by airborne519

   however, it can't be avoided when dealing with computer software.

Sure it can.

It's always been my rule to not play MMO's when they are released. Even ones that get good reviews, because they all get good reviews and the reviews are always BS.

I did pay for AOC at release though because I work with some impatient types and we play these games together and now they know better. I will also buy Warhammer but thats only because it's Mythic and I've played DAOC since Mid 2002, about 6 months after release. That was one of the few MMO's released without 1000000 bugs and instability issues.

 

You dont seem to follow your rules very often mate.

lol, at least he is not naive and knows the score, unlike a lot of trolls you find on the AoC forums!

The author of this article is just like the vast majority of game developers out there, arrogant dinosaurs with neither creativity or a true love of gaming, let alone its players, and worst of all not tech savy.There are SO many technolologies out there that not only cut costs, but development times for projects much more complex than creating a game, even an mmo, by 70-80% for a few thousand dollars, many of which are used by the military and multinational telecommunication corporations but are available to anyone. Some of the biggest timesavers are actually free! Everyday there is some new technology coming out that lowers the cost and development time to create software because its such a concern and limiting factor as to what people can do. I'll be glad when dinosaurs of his ilk are extinct in the gaming industry or at least stop telling everybody "less time = less quality".  Even if this is how it was, its not the way it is anymore. 

Originally posted by Reborn17

The author of this article is just like the vast majority of game developers out there, arrogant dinosaurs with neither creativity or a true love of gaming, let alone its players, and worst of all not tech savy.There are SO many technolologies out there that not only cut costs, but development times for projects much more complex than creating a game, even an mmo, by 70-80% for a few thousand dollars, many of which are used by the military and multinational telecommunication corporations but are available to anyone. Some of the biggest timesavers are actually free! Everyday there is some new technology coming out that lowers the cost and development time to create software because its such a concern and limiting factor as to what people can do. I'll be glad when dinosaurs of his ilk are extinct in the gaming industry or at least stop telling everybody "less time = less quality".  Even if this is how it was, its not the way it is anymore. 

 

Thanks for sharing this, if more people feel the way you do then this community is in more trouble then i orignaly thought.

I must admit i really LOL when i read it, as it's really amazing to see people actualy think the way you just explained. And even more funnyer you dareto call them arrogant, hehe i feel some people use words and have no clue what they mean.

Originally posted by eugam

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by airborne519

Originally posted by Reklaw

Definitly interesting artical, but it's a shame that i feel not everyone will understand it. I already just saw the first reply.

 

I probably should have posted it in 'general" not to single out AoC , but all mmo's in general.  It's kinda a rhetorical question also, that we pay for something that is not complete.. but that's the nature of the beast when it involves comuter programs.

 

Nah.....this is a good topic and intresting, he does cover mostly AoC so it's pefectly alright to see it in this section. Just wish/hope that people would actualy read AND understand what is been said in that articel.

 

I have read it and do understand it. But why should i trust in a blogger on the net ?

This is all nice talking but one of the biggest time and money sink are bad/outdated developing methods.

 

Look at stack sizes. Why does almost any game has to patch stack sizes after release ? Any database designer knows that a stack of 10.000 is the same as a stack of 5. Its one record, but two stacks of 5 are two records. The database interface and backend of an mmo is nowadays one of the critcal bottlenecks. Loot lag anyone ? Still devs release games with placeholder stacks of 5. It doesnt cost money or time to just release with a freaking stack size of 99 per default. Does it ?

 

The same with icons. Yeah i know, two different dev teams. Still, cant they come up with a system that makes sure that at least 98% of all items have the right icons from start and not placeholders ? I bet i could.

 

Ofc a game needs some artistic freedom and room for changes. But its such a waste to fix things by going through endless iterations. Things that could have been done right the first time. That would save iteration cycles for the real problems.

 

 

To answer your first question: NO you do not have to trust the blogger, but trusting something that is written is completly different then simply understanding what is said. I mean if people would indeed trust everything we read and understand this world would be in even more problems then we already have in the world. But you see you don't always have to trust something even if you understand what was written.

Originally posted by Reklaw

To answer your first question: NO you do not have to trust the blogger, but trusting something that is written is completly different then simply understanding what is said. I mean if people would indeed trust everything we read and understand this world would be in even more problems then we already have in the world. But you see you don't always have to trust something even if you understand what was written.

Too much credit to the average gamer.  I wish all people could read and understand, disagree or agree.  It would be great to have nice debates on all topics but sadly we are the wolves living amongst the sheep.  Try to help a sheep understand something and they become very angry... so I just poke them with a stick.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Definitly interesting artical, but it's a shame that i feel not everyone will understand it. I already just saw the first reply.

I'm sure you loved his theory about how to balance an MMO.. yes? Very professional, very interesting, very.. absurd.

Originally posted by airborne519

Originally posted by altairzq

He is so right... lets have movies that are too expensive released with a bad audio track, or missing scenes because.. well they ran out of money. Or cars with some gears not working or three wheels. We have to understand the problems the companies have. And pay and make them rich

 

Yeah, it sure brings up and interesting debate. How is it, this one of the few industries that can get away with making a profit on an incomplete product. What's even more interesting, why do some hand over their hard earned money for a product that is half-assed?   I'm guilty!  however, it can't be avoided when dealing with computer software.

In my opinion the MMO  industry can get away with it easier than other industries because unlike a 3 wheeled car you can still use the MMO while you wait for them to add things. That's the other factor they have, you don't buy a car and then get something added every week, month, however often from the manufacturer as an upgrade.

Do I think it's right? Not really. Do I understand why? I think so.

Of course, most of these companies wouldn't release anything early if the investors weren't pushing them. I know from reading articles from developers and programmers, these guys are major geeks who don't really care about pushing subscriptions, they're are just beyond stoked with how awesome the stuff the are creating is. If I had enough money, I would put together a team and try my hand at the business, but alas, I don't have enough and I don't make enough...

Very nice article... I do think it was smart that you posted it in AoC general OP because the article is basically concerning the launch of AoC.

I liked his way of thinking when it comes to AoC's release, what he stated is pretty much exactly my way of thinking when it comes to launching this game in it's current situation. Basically, there are many great MMO releases coming out in late 2008/early 2009 (I myself am anxiously awaiting Champions Online, being a hardcore CoX fan. I'm hoping the game will be exactly my tastes when it comes to MMORPGs). If you had the option to release ahead of Aion, TCoSB, WAR, and WoW's expansion, would you take it?

Of course, as we've all seen, AoC chose the decision to get some spotlight ahead of everyone else. The other side to this situation is that the game, in all honesty, is not finished. I used to be two-sided before I read this article; should FC have held back their release to finish the game next to WARs launch and create some spark for both games in a "vs." sort of state, or was it best to gain some foothold despite not having enough content? Now I can see that FCs decision was most likely the smartest decision, for the reason I should have realized; despite how good a game is, there will always be haters and nay-sayers.

The game wouldn't be in that much of a different situation as it is now if it was actually complete. I can imagine the frequent trollers on these forums would still find something to complain about and to make a fuss over... whether it be because they dislike the game's core mechanics, don't want their game to fail in popularity (I'm talking about you LOTRO fans), jealous of the game, simply want to make a ruckous, are awaiting another game to come out (I'm talking about you WAR and WoW fanbois) and/or any other nonsensical reason to either you or me.

The same thing is going to happen to WAR. There will be at least one flaw in it's launch. Unless it makes history and is the first ever MMO to launch without a single flaw (yes, LOTRO was close, but Turbine had it's flaws too), then people are going to make a ruckous out of that game too. FC will then have the higher grounds. Seeing as how they are masters of marketting manipulation, they will turn their flaws into AoC's favor. And the rabid AoC fanbois will help in their situation as well.

Originally posted by skeaser 

...Of course, most of these companies wouldn't release anything early if the investors weren't pushing them. I know from reading articles from developers and programmers, these guys are major geeks who don't really care about pushing subscriptions, they're are just beyond stoked with how awesome the stuff the are creating is...

I really wish that was true. I really do.