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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Behind the Career System: Part One

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48 posts found
  needalife214

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/06
Posts: 1129

Big Bang happened. And life happened. Then you trolls somehow got here?

6/24/08 4:11:22 PM#21
Originally posted by Bane82

 


Originally posted by Hexxeity
I find it odd that they describe this as an "evolution" when it's so similar to the model used in DAoC, just taken a teeny bit further.  Of course, this system does make a lot more sense with the way tabletop Warhammer units are done.

 

That's exactly my point. Not only that, but a number of MMO's have something relatively similar (using the term very loosely here) where not every single race can be every single profession, WoW and EQ2 are prime examples of this. The only difference being that the other MMO's expanded the number of professions a race can be, instead of limiting it and then give them different names.

So is it really "new"? doesn't seem like it. To me, a unique career system was that in FFXI (2 jobs at a time) because it was different from the steretypical system (one job per char) or SWG's (multiple professions/skills at the same time) or Lineage 2's system (similar to SWG, although I'm sure SWG tooktheir inspiration off of Lineage 2)

 

no no no  you don't understand ...it that only Choas can be chaos classes    each race has its own classes for example you wont see a Empire human being a black guard .....in WoW blood elfs can be all other classes but shamen    but in WAR Dark elfs can only be Dark Elf classes

 

understand   there is no common class that every race can be..

  Bane82

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/07
Posts: 1297

6/24/08 4:13:21 PM#22


Originally posted by Majinash

Originally posted by Hexxeity

I find it odd that they describe this as an "evolution" when it's so similar to the model used in DAoC, just taken a teeny bit further.  Of course, this system does make a lot more sense with the way tabletop Warhammer units are done.



 
isn't that what evolution is? small changes over time that eventually end up as large changes.  if each MMO changes a bit then years to come they will be completely diffrent.  Revolutionary would be a drastic change all at once, like EVE. 

hmmm good point.

  Bane82

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/07
Posts: 1297

6/24/08 4:14:53 PM#23


Originally posted by needalife214

Originally posted by Bane82

 



Originally posted by Hexxeity
I find it odd that they describe this as an "evolution" when it's so similar to the model used in DAoC, just taken a teeny bit further.  Of course, this system does make a lot more sense with the way tabletop Warhammer units are done.


 
That's exactly my point. Not only that, but a number of MMO's have something relatively similar (using the term very loosely here) where not every single race can be every single profession, WoW and EQ2 are prime examples of this. The only difference being that the other MMO's expanded the number of professions a race can be, instead of limiting it and then give them different names.
So is it really "new"? doesn't seem like it. To me, a unique career system was that in FFXI (2 jobs at a time) because it was different from the steretypical system (one job per char) or SWG's (multiple professions/skills at the same time) or Lineage 2's system (similar to SWG, although I'm sure SWG tooktheir inspiration off of Lineage 2)


 
no no no  you don't understand ...it that only Choas can be chaos classes    each race has its own classes for example you wont see a Empire human being a black guard .....in WoW blood elfs can be all other classes but shamen    but in WAR Dark elfs can only be Dark Elf classes
 
understand   there is no common class that every race can be..

LOL! You'll have to try and keep up, I already made a couple of posts after saying that I understood WAR's concept now.

  amorone

Novice Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 205

6/24/08 4:42:02 PM#24

That is only the start....it gets deeper still with the "masteries" within in each career. Each "career" (class) has 3 masteries. Of these, a player can choose how much or how little to delve into each. Like they may just want to specialize straight in one mastery path. Or they might want up to a point in one but then a little of another line too. It is still being worked out, but makes for some GREAT customization!

  Silverthorn8

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/08
Posts: 482

6/24/08 5:31:08 PM#25
Originally posted by amorone

That is only the start....it gets deeper still with the "masteries" within in each career. Each "career" (class) has 3 masteries. Of these, a player can choose how much or how little to delve into each. Like they may just want to specialize straight in one mastery path. Or they might want up to a point in one but then a little of another line too. It is still being worked out, but makes for some GREAT customization!

Indeed, no 2 players of the same class will have identical abilities, it's almost as if they have abolished the "cookie cutter" builds of certain other mmo's. (Good job as well).

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

6/24/08 5:36:39 PM#26
Originally posted by markoraos
Originally posted by Silverthorn8

When they say the first take on the careers was too complex, was it anything close to the fantasy roleplay system? Which typically started as something like a simple woodcutter or academic, then they would branch out into more sophistacted roles such as brigand, captain, judicial champion or pit fighter and of course if you are a dwarf the slayer careers.

There was also non-combat careers like demagogue, charlatan all revolving around manipulating innoncent folks (being non-combat it is easy to see why these wouldnt fit the current career formats).

The point is they all relied on prerequisite skills to be learned before one could progress from a base career to the more 'high brow' stuff. Typically it would take half a decade just to get to wizard rank 1 in the pnp game (unless the dm was kind with exp). I can see why the system will never make it into an mmo type format, although maybe a platform like the 4th edition d&d it would work.

Anyway looking forward to the next part of the interview :)

 

Yeah, I totally loved that system as well...

However since the MMORPG is squarely based on TT portion of the IP rather than RPG one (I believe it's even been given over to a separate company while GW concentrates on the TT), the existing career system is OK.

A WHFRPG career system would be awesome but then it wouldn't be all about WAR since a lot of those classes aren't purely combat ones. It would be better suited for a more classical MMO rather than a RvR one. Oh well...


 

Its a shame that no-one has decided to make a proper online ROLEPLAYING game (shock! horror! a game that isnt a great big war of mobile calculators!) based on warhammer actually although I can totally understand why it has gone in the direction of WAR. It has been very closely modeled off of WoW because they know that it will succeed and make money that way. Its also what the masses know and are familiar with so unfortunately the games companies have to appeal to the "orcish hordes" (Where's my PvP, phat loot farming, raiding, DoTs, epic gear blah blah blah) to access their wallets. The hairless apes that comprise the human race just cant adapt to new things very well unfortunately.

Dont get me wrong though cos I'm certainly looking forward to playing WAR when it comes out. I'm sure I will have a lot of fun with it. Its just a shame that they arent making a more intelligent game where I can really create an interesting character that is more unique. Instead we are restricting to a paltry 4 classes within each race. There will no doubt be more classes that get added to each race with further expansions but even still......I dunno.....it still seems rather simplified and limited to me. OK so in the article they talk about how each race has its own unique class. Is that such a big deal? Didnt we already know all of this from the beginning. Why has an article been published about it now as though its something new that they've just added to the game?

I'm wondering......isnt it going to be rather odd seeing large numbers of Bright Wizards running around? OK I know they can specialise in different branches of....umm.....burning things but they're still all Bright Wizards. I'm not all that clued up on Warhammer law but I'm sure there were loads of other schools of magic such as Jade Wizards, Celestial Wizards, Gold Wizards, Grey Wizards, Light Wizards and some others I think. Why can we only be one class of mage? The same goes for the priests and knights. Only one order of priests (Sigmar) and one order of knights (Blazing Sun). What about the rest? The thing is they dont even need to be totally different classes. Just let us pick our Wizard, Priest or Knight and then let us pick a secondary "Order" that we belong to. The "Order" that we choose to belong to could dictate what paths we could specialise in.

But yeah of course I totally understand the whole class-balancing thing and how much harder it gets the more choice the player has. Its just a shame it has to be dumbed down so much thats all. I also guess its because I really like the Warhammer setting and I'm a greedy git who wants it all.....even though I know I cant have it. Oh well WoW 2 it is then. Now where's me axe?!

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6667

6/24/08 5:46:33 PM#27

Here we go again.  Mythic only stupid devs don't learn from their mistakes.  You did the exact same thing with DAoC and guess what, 7-8 years later the classes are still not balanced to any degree.

Blizzard was smart, only introducing a few classes, NOT 24. 

Who knows, Mythic might shock the heck out of us and deliever half way decent class balance, but I have my doubts, as they could not do it in DAoC.

They should immediately drop at least 8 of the classes, even 16 is a stretch at release.

Remember Wow was primarily pve so the pvp was not a significant factor, WAR is pvp first and no balance means fotm classes that everyone herds to.

I just hope we see a miracle from Mythic, otherwise everyone will be disappointed again in another MMO company.

Remember, Mythic's response to fotm classes is to nuke them into oblivion.  Once Mythic decides to nerf they almost always make the class unplayable.

  Majinash

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/11/08
Posts: 1343

6/24/08 5:46:50 PM#28

you shouldn't try to justify things with warhammer lore when you don't know the lore.  there arn't many diffrent orders of knights for the empire.  hell, the brits only had 4 orders of knights, and they are the... knights faction.  (I take that back, they arn't diffrent orders of knights, just levels on their quest to the grail or ownership of land)

 

We can't base it too much on Warhammer because that was a game of armies! mass forces against each other.  players don't want to be archer #19 or skink #46.  and very few armies in warhammer contain more than a handfull of wizards, large armies.  small ones are very limited in in their choice of lords and heroes and such and they'd be lucky to have even 1.

 

In a real Warhammer army for the empire? i'd only expect to see knights of the blazing sun.  they were great strong troops, but never the focus.  I don't see how you could get the focus of the empire army in an MMO unless you wanted to let people play as... cannons.

 

The lore is deep, the units diverse.  But its not based on people playing a single unit, so a lot of things have to change.

 

and no, empire doesn't have access to all those schools of magic.  each type of wizard tends to have a very limited choice of magic.  with slaan toad lords having the largest pool to pull from if I can remember correctly.   but my Woodelf army can't touch high magic, so why should these silly empire wizards be able to?

Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  wykkid79

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/28/05
Posts: 131

6/24/08 7:56:13 PM#29

Sounds like someone over at Mythic played AC2.  It's funny to me that one of the big reasons people didn't like AC2 later in life was because of the number of classes.  For those that don't know, each of the 3 races (eventually 4 and a drudge) had unique classes.  Each race had 2 melee classes, 2 ranged, 2 caster.  There were overlaps between classes but each and every class was unique.  It was the best system out there and would be today if it hadn't been screwed over by MS.  Oh well... another topic.

I'm glad another company thought that was a good idea, gives me some hope for WAR.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1775

6/25/08 2:43:45 AM#30
Originally posted by Bane82

I don't get it to be honest. Don't other games have a relatively similar job system? for example, in WoW only certain classes can be certain professions, not all races can be everything. I noticed this in EQ2 and I believe even DAoC, heck I believe LOTRO and DDO has this too. The only difference is that the other MMO's decided to expand more professions to other races, but again, this isn't to say that it isn't all THAT different from what WAR is trying to do... or am I missing something here?

 

 

I'm also not very sure to get it. Besides what you already wrote, what about i.e. AoC? Only Stygian race for example can be necromancer or demonologist. However many are shared by other races. In LOTRO also only humans can be all possible classes, but it is true, that many are shared among races.

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

6/25/08 5:00:12 AM#31
Originally posted by Majinash

you shouldn't try to justify things with warhammer lore when you don't know the lore.  there arn't many diffrent orders of knights for the empire.  hell, the brits only had 4 orders of knights, and they are the... knights faction.  (I take that back, they arn't diffrent orders of knights, just levels on their quest to the grail or ownership of land)

 

We can't base it too much on Warhammer because that was a game of armies! mass forces against each other.  players don't want to be archer #19 or skink #46.  and very few armies in warhammer contain more than a handfull of wizards, large armies.  small ones are very limited in in their choice of lords and heroes and such and they'd be lucky to have even 1.

 

In a real Warhammer army for the empire? i'd only expect to see knights of the blazing sun.  they were great strong troops, but never the focus.  I don't see how you could get the focus of the empire army in an MMO unless you wanted to let people play as... cannons.

 

The lore is deep, the units diverse.  But its not based on people playing a single unit, so a lot of things have to change.

 

and no, empire doesn't have access to all those schools of magic.  each type of wizard tends to have a very limited choice of magic.  with slaan toad lords having the largest pool to pull from if I can remember correctly.   but my Woodelf army can't touch high magic, so why should these silly empire wizards be able to?

Well I did point out that I dont know the warhammer lore all that well didnt I. That doesnt mean I cant voice some thoughts I am having about the topic though does it.

But thanks for the information though as it cleared a few things up for me. For example I didnt know that the empire only had access to fire magic......I was sure that they had more schools of magic than that but I must be wrong. Same goes for the knightly orders and priests too. My gripes have been pushed aside :-)

  checkthis500

Novice Member

Joined: 9/15/05
Posts: 1234

6/25/08 7:55:41 AM#32

 

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Here we go again.  Mythic only stupid devs don't learn from their mistakes.  You did the exact same thing with DAoC and guess what, 7-8 years later the classes are still not balanced to any degree.

Blizzard was smart, only introducing a few classes, NOT 24. 

Who knows, Mythic might shock the heck out of us and deliever half way decent class balance, but I have my doubts, as they could not do it in DAoC.

They should immediately drop at least 8 of the classes, even 16 is a stretch at release.

Remember Wow was primarily pve so the pvp was not a significant factor, WAR is pvp first and no balance means fotm classes that everyone herds to.

I just hope we see a miracle from Mythic, otherwise everyone will be disappointed again in another MMO company.

Remember, Mythic's response to fotm classes is to nuke them into oblivion.  Once Mythic decides to nerf they almost always make the class unplayable.

They've really streamlined what they did with DAoC in WAR.  While they have 24 classes, they have 4 archetypes, and there are pairs of classes that mimic eachother, yet are still unique.
 

i.e. Bright Wizard and Sorceress are both RDPS classes that have a guage that builds up with the more magic you cast that can damage your character if you use too many powerful spells.

Or the fact that there are 6 healing classes, but two are mimiced for melee, and two are mimiced for range, and the other two... well they're mimiced but in what seems like a different way.  Warrior Priest and Disciple for melee, the shaman and archmage for ranged, and the zealot and runepriest for what seems like buffs/debuffs.

Having mimics, and also having very straight forward archetypes will go a loooooong way in helping class balance be achieved easier.  With DAoC you have a ton of unique classes that don't mirror and aren't in any specific archetype.  (At least not to my knowledge)

It makes testing easier and balance easier also because when you play the class you can ask yourself "Does it fit the correct role?"

 

EDIT: To neonwire.  The Empire has access to all 8 winds of magic, but they can only be proficient in one per person. 

There are 8 colleges of magic in the Empire.  some examples being Bright Wizards, Amethyst Wizards, Jade Wizards, etc. etc.  you can find it all on the games workshop website under the empire section. 

The point he was trying to make is Bright Wizards ONLY use Fire magic, while other colleges ONLY use their college of magic.  They're not able to do what the elves do which is that one person can theoretically use all 8 winds of magic.

There's already been concept art of wizards from the other colleges (obviously as NPCs), they just chose to use Bright Wizards because of their unique look and feel.  I mean just look at them.  They bleed of badassery.

Also there are other priests and other knightly orders.  I can't think of all their names as well, but the Knights of the Blazing sun who worship the goddess myrmidia (i think that's how you spell it) are very tactical and exact in everything they do throughout their life, so they are the closest to what people expect from a tank/knight character.

There are also other priesthoods.  I can't think of those either off the top of my head. (not a lore buff) but I know they exist. 

Again just browse games workshops site and you can find miniatures of most of the classes that are in the game, or find some info online about the fantasy role playing game they have, because some of the lore is pulled from that as well.  Then while you're at it you can read some novels, because they're pulling lore from there too. :p  Basically they're drawing from the entire IP and not just one aspect of it.

---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.

  theguru22

Novice Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 53

6/25/08 1:20:59 PM#33

Question: Why have set classes at all? This, I think, is part of what discourages me from playing most mainstream games. From the time I create my character I'm stuck in my ways, not being able to distribute attributes AT ALL and not really choosing the majority of my abilities.

WoW has a trait system that allows a bit of character customization, but you realize that it's more of the illusion of customization because depending on what you want to do, there really is only one good way to go about it. So then it comes down to your "skill" playing the game, and games like WoW require next to no skill. As long as you can operate 3 buttons and a mouse, you'll be able to compete with the big boys... unless... your gear sucks. So what does PvP in a set class system come down to? The ability to spend hours and hours grinding for the best gear, with which it becomes little competition as you smash those with inferior armor.

Many mainstream MMORPGs employ exactly the same system as WoW, because it's so popular and lucrative (as long as you can come up with more and more perpetual diversions). However, this system is dull and lifeless, and anyone can pickup and play WoW well within hours, which is the entire time it takes to develop the strategies you will use in every PvP match you participate in. You may as well be part of the programming.

What I would like to see is more MMORPGs that employ systems similar to pre-CU SWG and AO, which were so incredibly popular because your character could fill any roll in the game, and change at any time. I admit, I am one of those who reroll nearly every class in the game simply for the diversity (because I can't stand the monotony). I never had to do that in SWG (I had 3 characters at most) because their system allowed me the freedom to choose what I wanted to do and change my character accordingly, without a hampering level system.

But perhaps this is only me, and the droves of sheep in the US would rather fall into a monotonous system than have the ability to choose.

- Theguruofreason

  grimmbot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 302

You would be surprised how few people care about what you have to say.

6/25/08 1:43:38 PM#34
Originally posted by Silverthorn8
Originally posted by amorone

That is only the start....it gets deeper still with the "masteries" within in each career. Each "career" (class) has 3 masteries. Of these, a player can choose how much or how little to delve into each. Like they may just want to specialize straight in one mastery path. Or they might want up to a point in one but then a little of another line too. It is still being worked out, but makes for some GREAT customization!

Indeed, no 2 players of the same class will have identical abilities, it's almost as if they have abolished the "cookie cutter" builds of certain other mmo's. (Good job as well).

I need to do more reading on this too, because I'm too jaded as an MMO vet to take any company's word for anything. ;)

For example, WoW offers a wide range of customization for each class too -- but they're still very much cookie-cutter because most of the combinations will not make you nearly as effective as a select few. So it was like trying to avoid being cookie cutter, by adding more cookies.

I'm anxious to see how Mythic works all of this out, and whether they can create a game that lets more than a few combinations stand out.

  Ascension08

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/08
Posts: 2009

"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver, but the White Border of Darkfall rules over all!"

6/25/08 1:46:39 PM#35
Originally posted by grimmbot
Originally posted by Silverthorn8
Originally posted by amorone

That is only the start....it gets deeper still with the "masteries" within in each career. Each "career" (class) has 3 masteries. Of these, a player can choose how much or how little to delve into each. Like they may just want to specialize straight in one mastery path. Or they might want up to a point in one but then a little of another line too. It is still being worked out, but makes for some GREAT customization!

Indeed, no 2 players of the same class will have identical abilities, it's almost as if they have abolished the "cookie cutter" builds of certain other mmo's. (Good job as well).

I need to do more reading on this too, because I'm too jaded as an MMO vet to take any company's word for anything. ;)

For example, WoW offers a wide range of customization for each class too -- but they're still very much cookie-cutter because most of the combinations will not make you nearly as effective as a select few. So it was like trying to avoid being cookie cutter, by adding more cookies.

I'm anxious to see how Mythic works all of this out, and whether they can create a game that lets more than a few combinations stand out.


 

Yeah but WoW's problem was that once you chose a spec, you performed very poorly in anything BUT that spec. A prot pally can't heal as well as a holy pally, probably not even as well as a regular pally. All they can do is AoE tank. But with WAR, class masteries won't be that sharply defined. A warrior priest that puts his points into damage will still be able to heal semi-effectively...not as good as a warrior priest who chose a healing path of course, but nothing like the WoW example.

--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"

Order of the White Border.

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

6/25/08 2:06:58 PM#36
Originally posted by checkthis500

 

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Here we go again.  Mythic only stupid devs don't learn from their mistakes.  You did the exact same thing with DAoC and guess what, 7-8 years later the classes are still not balanced to any degree.

Blizzard was smart, only introducing a few classes, NOT 24. 

Who knows, Mythic might shock the heck out of us and deliever half way decent class balance, but I have my doubts, as they could not do it in DAoC.

They should immediately drop at least 8 of the classes, even 16 is a stretch at release.

Remember Wow was primarily pve so the pvp was not a significant factor, WAR is pvp first and no balance means fotm classes that everyone herds to.

I just hope we see a miracle from Mythic, otherwise everyone will be disappointed again in another MMO company.

Remember, Mythic's response to fotm classes is to nuke them into oblivion.  Once Mythic decides to nerf they almost always make the class unplayable.

They've really streamlined what they did with DAoC in WAR.  While they have 24 classes, they have 4 archetypes, and there are pairs of classes that mimic eachother, yet are still unique.
 

i.e. Bright Wizard and Sorceress are both RDPS classes that have a guage that builds up with the more magic you cast that can damage your character if you use too many powerful spells.

Or the fact that there are 6 healing classes, but two are mimiced for melee, and two are mimiced for range, and the other two... well they're mimiced but in what seems like a different way.  Warrior Priest and Disciple for melee, the shaman and archmage for ranged, and the zealot and runepriest for what seems like buffs/debuffs.

Having mimics, and also having very straight forward archetypes will go a loooooong way in helping class balance be achieved easier.  With DAoC you have a ton of unique classes that don't mirror and aren't in any specific archetype.  (At least not to my knowledge)

It makes testing easier and balance easier also because when you play the class you can ask yourself "Does it fit the correct role?"

 

EDIT: To neonwire.  The Empire has access to all 8 winds of magic, but they can only be proficient in one per person. 

There are 8 colleges of magic in the Empire.  some examples being Bright Wizards, Amethyst Wizards, Jade Wizards, etc. etc.  you can find it all on the games workshop website under the empire section. 

The point he was trying to make is Bright Wizards ONLY use Fire magic, while other colleges ONLY use their college of magic.  They're not able to do what the elves do which is that one person can theoretically use all 8 winds of magic.

There's already been concept art of wizards from the other colleges (obviously as NPCs), they just chose to use Bright Wizards because of their unique look and feel.  I mean just look at them.  They bleed of badassery.

Also there are other priests and other knightly orders.  I can't think of all their names as well, but the Knights of the Blazing sun who worship the goddess myrmidia (i think that's how you spell it) are very tactical and exact in everything they do throughout their life, so they are the closest to what people expect from a tank/knight character.

There are also other priesthoods.  I can't think of those either off the top of my head. (not a lore buff) but I know they exist. 

Again just browse games workshops site and you can find miniatures of most of the classes that are in the game, or find some info online about the fantasy role playing game they have, because some of the lore is pulled from that as well.  Then while you're at it you can read some novels, because they're pulling lore from there too. :p  Basically they're drawing from the entire IP and not just one aspect of it.


Hmmm......so I did have it right first time then. Thanks for the info. Basicly the devs have decided all players in the empire who want to be a mage WILL be a fire mage, so like I said before.....ummm......lots of fire wizards running about = Severe lack of choice. Yes they are badass but I would prefer "interesting" to "badass". Afterall who cares if you look badass when every other mage on your side is the same as you. Also anything looks "badass" depending on your perspective. It reminds me of the old days when i used to play geeky pen & paper roleplaying games and at times would deliberately play a character that wasnt outwardly amazing cos I got so tired of listening to everyone else trying to be "the coolest". Afterall people trying to be the badass only impress themselves - the people around them dont give a rats ass as they are to busy being the badass themselves (sigh).

Oh I fancy being a nature mage.....a kind of druid type.....nope cant be one! How about an illusionist....nope! anything other than fire? nope. Oh well.

Oh and I have read some warhammer novels so i do know a bit about the lore. I just wasnt keyed up on who could use which schools of magic.

  DeusExVis

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/08
Posts: 5

6/25/08 7:41:24 PM#37

Whatever, as long as the PVP is more engaging than WOW or AOC, then I'm cool with it. The mechanics of most MMOs thus far (at least the mainstream ones) has hinged on gear bonuses rather than player skill. Here's hoping WAR brings some of that back into the mix. If not, there's always Darkfall

"What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!"
~Best. Movie. Ever.

  MLecl0001

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 154

6/26/08 12:25:18 AM#38
Originally posted by markoraos
Originally posted by Silverthorn8

When they say the first take on the careers was too complex, was it anything close to the fantasy roleplay system? Which typically started as something like a simple woodcutter or academic, then they would branch out into more sophistacted roles such as brigand, captain, judicial champion or pit fighter and of course if you are a dwarf the slayer careers.

There was also non-combat careers like demagogue, charlatan all revolving around manipulating innoncent folks (being non-combat it is easy to see why these wouldnt fit the current career formats).

The point is they all relied on prerequisite skills to be learned before one could progress from a base career to the more 'high brow' stuff. Typically it would take half a decade just to get to wizard rank 1 in the pnp game (unless the dm was kind with exp). I can see why the system will never make it into an mmo type format, although maybe a platform like the 4th edition d&d it would work.

Anyway looking forward to the next part of the interview :)

 

Yeah, I totally loved that system as well...

However since the MMORPG is squarely based on TT portion of the IP rather than RPG one (I believe it's even been given over to a separate company while GW concentrates on the TT), the existing career system is OK.

A WHFRPG career system would be awesome but then it wouldn't be all about WAR since a lot of those classes aren't purely combat ones. It would be better suited for a more classical MMO rather than a RvR one. Oh well...

 

Actually they have stated that WAR is based on all of the Warhammer IP, that includes the TT, RPG, Books, etc.  While it is easy to see the comparison with the TT since it is the most well known, Mythic is drawing upon all the lore that Warhammer has to offer.

 

Also for class balance, they only need to balance the archetypes verses one another, so it should help with the balancing act.  Another thing that will help with class balance is the fact that the game is based heavily around RvR, or PvP.  So Mythic can just balance the classes against each other and then change the mobs and NPCs in relation to the players.  In PvE intensive games, like WoW for example, it is harder to balance classes against each other because skills are balanced against NPCs and Mobs first and foremost.  So you end up with useless skills in PvP, like taunt.  Yet in WAR they will have a taunt and it will work in PvP because the skill was created for use in PvP, and they can just tailor mobs and NPCs to react a certain way to that skill. 

Yes the class system is similar to DAoC, but that should be a given since WAR is being made by the people who made DAoC.  And I dont think this system is similar to WoW or EQ or LOTRO, because while you only have a limited selection of classes per race, all the races still pull from the same pool of classes.  Whereas in WAR every class is different, and not only in name, the only similarities between classes will be in their archetype.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6667

6/26/08 4:06:07 AM#39

The problem with character customization in WAR is they are limited by a methodology that was created for board type games, hence you have built in limitations.  Looks like Mythic is addressing this as best they can. 

This is NOT the sandbox game everyone is looking for, but it does seem to be something far deeper than AoC.  Whether it is Wow quality remains to be seen.

It really cracks me up when people bash Wow yet, not one game to date has even come close to being considered a competitor.  

 

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

6/26/08 10:14:57 AM#40

"There are 24 careers in total: four for each of the six races in the game. This in and of itself is a unique decision. More traditional MMOs like World of Warcraft don’t tie their classes to their races."

 

I quoted this from the article. As a long time DAoC player, I must correct you on this, because I feel like DAoC isn't getting credit when credit is due. While this system is unique, it has also been done by a "traditional game." That game is DAoC of course. Each realm has a set of classes and those classes can only be taken by certain races. It brings the whole "does it make sense for this race to be this class" thing into the works, and I like it.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

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