Originally posted by UtMoon

The PlaneShift 'team' and 'staff' do not have the ability to change the website, nor are any of them guilty of Kordo's blanket statement of  "dishonesty, lack of integrity, and plain hypocrisy". Many are my close friends, and this thread has insulted and slandered them without a basis.

I don't believe he was calling for the Planeshift 'team' and 'staff' to change the German community website.  He was calling for the Planeshift team to penalize the German community according to our policy surrounding spoilers.

Originally posted by XEyeSpyX

 

Have to say - after reading the original drama post, I chalked it all up to a former player with a grudge, trying to get even.

 

That is until I read the replies from the several staff members of this game. I've played a LOT of games in my time, but I've never seen staff from any of those games come running like a bunch of children to argue a post that really does not do a single bit of damage to the game's reputation at all. What damages the game's reputation are the staff fighting on an MMPORPG user review site over ONE random post that has absolutely nothing to do with game playability what-so-ever.

 

As some other posters have said, staffers could have read and replied professionally, or not at all. This is what good gaming staff does folks. You don't see Blizzard staff, or Turbine Staff duking it out verbally on their forum or any other forums. And I really don't care what anyone thinks of either of those companies, it's the point behind the sentence that I'm getting at.

 

I'd have to say that I won't be trying this game at all, not because I think the game may suck, but because if I ever run into trouble with the game and need to speak to staff about it - I now see what I can count on being treated like. Take a lesson from games like Astonia III - bad staff = lots of bad reviews and NO gamers. You guys need to hold your tongues or learn to speak professionally, remembering who and what you represent.

 

In the mean time - good luck.

Agreed.  The Planeshift project members don't conduct themselves professionally, generally speaking.  But they aren't professionals, and they take personally everything that gets said about the game.

I have a question, PSTruth.

Just how much are you paying to play PS?

If you don't play PS...

and you don't want to play PS...

why in the heck are you complaining about *spoilers* to PS?

Just what interest is it of yours?

What hair got up your crack sideways?

 As you pointed out yourself... it's not a professional project.

That doesn't mean it lacks talent or dedication. It just means it lacks BS artists like the big companies hire to babysit insufferable people who get more entertainment out of complaining than they would ever get out of any game.

You may want to reread my posts.  I do play the game.  I think it's fun, and I want it to succeed.

As far as spoilers go, I said:

"The german community hasn't really done anything wrong and they've done a lot for players, so I'm not complaining if they haven't been punished."

Also, I'm not the one complaining.  Kordo is.

You seem very confused about who's saying what.  No offense, but perhaps you should reread the thread...?

Talad promotes uncivil behavior.

I'm curious to know what your definition of rudeness is.  Yes, I've pointed out flaws in the game.  And yes, I've pointed out the misbehavior of the developers.

But the problem isn't that people complain.  The problems are what people complain about.

You're essentially saying "If you want PlaneShift to be successful, then shut up about the misbehavior of its developers."  I don't see the logic in that.

I had nothing to do with Karyuu's departure.  People are running away form the game, but the game's developers are to blame for that, not the critics.

Talad promotes uncivil behavior.

Originally posted by Tuxide

 

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Originally posted by pstruth
You're essentially saying "If you want PlaneShift to be successful, then shut up about the misbehavior of its developers."  I don't see the logic in that.

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One of the main goals of effective requirements engineering is to minimize the amount of unnecessary communication between people as much as possible—including between users and implementors—and people like you are creating an awful lot of communication overhead. There are a few ways to do this and simply banning people like you is one way.

 

 

 

PS is more than an engineering project though.  It's a community.

I still feel like you're misplacing blame.  You're angry at people for complaining about other people abusing their positions of power.  That's what some call "whistle-blower retaliation".

Talad promotes uncivil behavior.

PoSTruth,

Believe it or not, this is not the only message thead I have read;

You are incessantly critical of Planeshift and those attempting to run/create it, basing your standard upon the standard of a commercial venture such as EQ or WoW.

I recognize the style of the baseless, vacuous arguments; you could do us all a favor by going back to such blog sites as the dailyKOS.

I blame people for their own actions.  I don't know how that promotes incivility.

The game suffers because they aren't paid professionals.  But that's just part of the equation.  The developers make decisions about which features to add or remove.

I haven't said "Get more money!  Do what you're doing, only better!"  I'm not comparing PS to WoW or other commercial games.

I am critical of how the ps team / staff treat people, but I'm using common sense in judging them, not a "WoW model".

As far as saying it's all baseless... calling it baseless is baseless.

Originally posted by pstruth

I blame people for their own actions.  I don't know how that promotes incivility.

The game suffers because they aren't paid professionals.  But that's just part of the equation.  The developers make decisions about which features to add or remove.

I haven't said "Get more money!  Do what you're doing, only better!"  I'm not comparing PS to WoW or other commercial games.

I am critical of how the ps team / staff treat people, but I'm using common sense in judging them, not a "WoW model".

As far as saying it's all baseless... calling it baseless is baseless.

I don't see how you can say the game suffers. I play it. Other people play it. I've had zero problems playing it since I started. And I've not only played it on Windows, I've played it n OSX on an underpowered G3, and on a Linux machine *from a Windows machine* via XMing.

If you're not comparing PS to a "professional" effort such as WoW, you can't say that it's somehow "suffering".  At most all you can say is that you are not happy with it, for whatever reason makes you, personally, unhappy.

How the PS team treats people.... based on my experience and the conversations I've had with other players, is little different than the treatment I have received from the paid support staffs of commercial ventures such as WoW and Everquest.

You are not using common sense, or you would not concede that it is not a commercial effort (you keep using the term "professional"), and still harp about how the developers (NOT customer service reps, not professional, paid, derriere smoochers) treat people... based on how you perceive YOU were treated

I said the game suffers because they aren't paid professionals.  If they were paid professionals, then they'd have more time, more experience, and more resources.  Instead, they're doing it for free in their spare time.

If you've had zero problems with it, congrats.

If you want to discuss my opinions with me, you've got to be specific about what you're talking about, or else your just making generalizations.  Anything to do with the community, and anything to do with the behavior of the developement team, these are obviously things not related to funding etc.

I've seen a lot of stuff happen.  My opinions aren't based on just my own experiences.  If you've really read through my posts, you should already know this.

Talad promotes uncivil behavior.

Originally posted by Tuxide

 

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Originally posted by pstruth
I blame people for their own actions.  I don't know how that promotes incivility.

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Your comments promote incivility because they are personally targeted and they do nothing but bring stress to others. Think about it. Let's say you ran some MUD in your free time that you made absolutely nothing off of, it had a player base, and there was one player who was always persistently rude to you. So you indefban him and it's not good enough; he ban avoids using open proxies just to harass you more and he trolls The Mud Connector forums saying how much of an ass you are in running the game. Eventually you would get stressed out enough that you would shut your MUD down for good. I used to be a graphical MUD developer myself and I've seen all of this happen many times. This is how you slay a MUD.

 

I have a different story.  Certain developers and Game Masters for an inde game treat their players maliciously or unfairly on a regular basis.  Some players begin to speak out.  Instead of something positive being done, the players are punished for complaining.  Other developers and game masters try to change things from the inside and are punished as well.  The game eventually develops a reputation for having a lousy attitude towards players.  This is how you slay a MUD.

Talad promotes uncivil behavior.

Huh?  And other people are posting to this forum saying they've had similar experiences.  So not only do people agree with me, but they're letting their voices be heard here right in front of you.

Talad promotes uncivil behavior.

Originally posted by pstruth

I said the game suffers because they aren't paid professionals.  If they were paid professionals, then they'd have more time, more experience, and more resources.  Instead, they're doing it for free in their spare time.

If you've had zero problems with it, congrats.

If you want to discuss my opinions with me, you've got to be specific about what you're talking about, or else your just making generalizations.  Anything to do with the community, and anything to do with the behavior of the developement team, these are obviously things not related to funding etc.

I've seen a lot of stuff happen.  My opinions aren't based on just my own experiences.  If you've really read through my posts, you should already know this.

I know what you said. Since my reply appears to be beyond your ken, let me put it in simpler words:

You... Are... Wrong...

As for making generalizations, I had no idea that you were the only one allowed to do that.

Apparently many of your opinions are based upon the unverified accounts related by other people in this forum.

So, even more clever than forming your own opinion based upon your own suppositions from your experiences, now you admit to forming  your own opinions based upon the suppositons from other's alleged experiences.

Too smart for me.

Apparently Hiraghm, you were lying when you said you read my posts.  My opinions come from extended observation and participation in ps.  Others have shared their experiences with me, but I have many experiences of my own.

Please tell me why I should respond to you when you lie about reading my posts and your arguments are merely personal attacks.