General Discussion

I don't understand the.."if i want to play solo i'll play a console game" argument. I like mmos...i don't like to group all the time...In reality I have a few good friends...don't mind crowds once and a while but mostly go it alone. The same for mmos..but even in solo play i like the semblance of a living world..and it  provides a different feeling and atmosphere of  realism to a game ...when you see another toon that isn't  simply acting out some programmers algorithm. Maybe when a.i. becomes so brilliant that one can not tell a mob from a toon...then i might buy the "console game" retort....until then.

I think soloing should be limited to those with demonstrated skill. That is, if you play a game and learn it very well, then soloing should be an option. They shouldn't make a game solo-friendly right out of the box. Because that demonstrates the game is too easy; and players will bore quickly.

By best experiences in a MMO was in EQ. I loved grouping in EQ with my guild or in a pug.  The game play was slower not as fast paced due to needed downtime between fights.  Due to this you had time to chat and have a laugh with your group members.  You were comrade in arms with your group members, all working towards the same goal.  The sense of community was second to none.

In most modern MMO's it's too quest centric.  Most people are out for themselves, the community has changed for the worse.  You group, finish your quest and disband and look for another group with the same quest goals and rinse and repeat.  Pugs are a nightmare in certain games, but people put up with bad players just so they can get the quest finished.  Most grouping now is confined amongst guilds which is a shame, one thing I loved about EQ was meeting new people through pugs

To answer your question.

It all depends on the community.  If it's a bad community I will group with my guild and solo the rest of the time.

Good community.  Grouping all the way if possible pugs and all

I do agree content should be available for the soloist. I'm in the mindset content should be available for all playstyles.

Edit: Oops just re-read my post, sorry looks like I went a bit of track.

Personally, I think just because its a MMO the old canned jibe of 'if you don't like to group play a console game' is a ill thought out response.  I'm by no means anti social, but I have a low tolerance for rudeness, idiots, or people who expect me to be their personal escort without consideration of what I may want.  Unfortunately, this is the vast majority of today's MMO community, hence why solo style play has to be more present than ever before.  Any class, out of the gate, should be able to play the game solo, perhaps not at the same level of ease, but all should be able to.  That is for example, WoW's appeal and strength, it recognizes the fact that most players suck, and that PUGs are a trial of frustration and patience and even guild groups can be a excercise in exacerbation.

What I would desperately like to see MMO Devs grab a clue on is the idea of tiered content, where you can do the game solo, and for added challenge difficulty, team up with 1 other person, and steadily increase the difficulty/challenge/reward up to a total of 5 people.  If I have to pay to play I feel I have the right to play the game on my own or with others as my whim dictates, not the whim of a Dev. 

The notion of group play being better or god forbid forced, is a mistaken one IMO because it makes a extremly flawed assumption, that your community in the given MMO is a good one.  That simply is not the truth, the public sucks, anyone who works with it knows this, and the internet public sucks even worse.  Guilds are not a safe haven from this, the annonimity of the internet and the selfish nature of most gamers these days rears its ugly head as much in a guild enviornment as anywhere else.  Sure, when you have put together a good and solid guild who does genuinely care for one another and come together to acheive a collective goal, it's a great thing, but thats not the norm, thats the exception.

Thus, any game that does not strongly support solo play style will not see my subscription dollar, and I dare to say, I'm hardly alone in this regard.  I'm 38 years old and know gamers that range in age from 15-55 of a broad range of economic and social strata and from various parts of the globe, and while you should naturally take the following claim with a grain of salt, this collective all pretty much agrees with me on this, a MMO has got to have solid solo play support or its not worth playing due to how badly the general public sucks and being forced to play alongside of them to advance your character is not a model we choose to support with our money.

I myself prefer soloing, BUT I do like grouping too...and I have a really really fun time healing in a group. But I don't always have time (more often then not) to find a group.

Originally posted by Arclan

I think soloing should be limited to those with demonstrated skill. That is, if you play a game and learn it very well, then soloing should be an option. They shouldn't make a game solo-friendly right out of the box. Because that demonstrates the game is too easy; and players will bore quickly.

This is the sentiment that often serves as the status quo, and it's completely wrong even.

When a MMO has crafters/collectors/traders these types are soloers. Their occupations are doing things by themselves. It used to be trading was a full time affair, but no, now these PvPers wanted their auction houses, too (with the excuse they could never find a trader online when they needed). Truth is the devs made PvP open, which meant in order to get goods to craft and sell, not only NPC content has to be killed, there's PvPers to contend with too (and surprise, surprise, surprise the crafters/collectors/traders are penalized in combat skills to defend themselves, even). So the crafters/collectors/traders have to be anything but, as the PvPers hoard mats for themselves or their clans, so they have to level up  -- and then folks wonder why there wasn't enough crafters/collectors/traders? Adding insult to injury, is to make lower end content not worth even making, so everything made is top heavy, and often at high failure rates. Without decay and with 1000001 raids, they rarely even sale, as drops keep the raiders clothed, too.

As my sig says, MMO doesn't mean grouping/raiding/PvPing only. It means a lot of people online doing their own thing, as MMOs are suppose to be more non-linear than other games. If someone wants to socialize in cities/bars only that's their thing; if someone enjoys growing a botantical garden at the edge of a map and acting like a 15th century hermit and alchemist, that's their thing. The point is there's room in a MMO for every play style, no style is more special (something PvPers often wish to forget).

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Originally posted by Seeker728

The notion of group play being better or god forbid forced, is a mistaken one IMO because it makes a extremly flawed assumption, that your community in the given MMO is a good one.  That simply is not the truth, the public sucks, anyone who works with it knows this, and the internet public sucks even worse.  Guilds are not a safe haven from this, the annonimity of the internet and the selfish nature of most gamers these days rears its ugly head as much in a guild enviornment as anywhere else.  Sure, when you have put together a good and solid guild who does genuinely care for one another and come together to acheive a collective goal, it's a great thing, but thats not the norm, thats the exception.

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Then add the drama that mimics real life. If I'm paying, I'm not going to pay to play with boss and co-worker types, with their 10001 rules and ego games. Gaming is an escape from RL, MMOs even more so.

The public sucks online. Being an anon makes it easy to be a jerk, and some of the worst offenders even develop personaes online to be one (but they're usually the first to cry, "It's just a game!", meanwhile making everyone else's life online a mess with their aholeness. They even attract like kind, to make even the game forums mimic themselves). Don't have time or spending money so a jerk can be a jerk online. Playing solo, I can enjoy the game, get the loot, and be free of RL for a couple hours a night. Besides, NPCs don't hack, use 128 macros, have a 5k computer and don't spend their time calling everyone "n00bs" when their candy is taken from them (PvPers are the worst in this. They are like fine china. If you don't go "ooooh" at their l33tness, their face would crack [then spend the rest of their online life trying to make YOU miserable for their sociopathy]).

I don't group or join clans because I haven't found one where players are decent. Decent in morals/ethics (e.g., thinking it's fun attacking new players, like payback and generational abuse is fine); doesn't use exploits or cheat; doesn't have a sense of humor that's a mega dose of insulting "sarcasm"; and think a game is a dating service (online games are male top heavy, and I'm too old for 15 year-old jailbait).

People just have to deal with not everyone is going to play the game your way. So don't be jerks and try to force them to play like you. It's a MMO, and that means everyone is in the game for their own reasons. If soloers want to 8hr socializers or be hermits, so be it.

Originally posted by Vendayn

I myself prefer soloing, BUT I do like grouping too...and I have a really really fun time healing in a group. But I don't always have time (more often then not) to find a group.

I enjoy grouping as well, I've run with PUGs and had a tremendously good time, though unfortunately, usually its the opposite, but when things aren't clouded with unnecessary drama or idiocy, its a great time.  Hence MMOs should most definitely include a grouping mechanism and a quick, easy, efficient and sophisticated in game tool that allows you to put together groups. 

However designing content to require a group for needed progression is IMO, a flaw and its where Devs these days drop the ball.  As I stated in my original reply to the topic, Devs assume the community of their game is a good one, they don't realize that most people log into a game with the attitude of a child in a candy store., and as the follow up post to this one above said, MMO means that it allows for a very broad array of play styles, of which solo play is every bit as valid and important as anything else.

Originally posted by BarCrow

I don't understand the.."if i want to play solo i'll play a console game" argument. I like mmos...i don't like to group all the time...In reality I have a few good friends...don't mind crowds once and a while but mostly go it alone. The same for mmos..but even in solo play i like the semblance of a living world..and it  provides a different feeling and atmosphere of  realism to a game ...when you see another toon that isn't  simply acting out some programmers algorithm. Maybe when a.i. becomes so brilliant that one can not tell a mob from a toon...then i might buy the "console game" retort....until then.

And what makes you think that players made of bones and flesh are not acting by some programmers algorithm? Can you please give me an example?