Arguing with believers is kind of stupid, I have to admit that.  They just want it so bad, they are willing to ignore anything counter to their hopes.

Now, who really has something to gain by spinning the facts?  Me?  Obviously not.  The devs/fanbois?  Quite obviously so.  They say what you want to hear, I dont. 

Bottom line, I didnt post this to convert fanatics.  The facts can speak for themselves, for those with the ears to hear.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Arguing with believers is kind of stupid, I have to admit that.  They just want it so bad, they are willing to ignore anything counter to their hopes.

Now, who really has something to gain by spinning the facts?  Me?  Obviously not.  The devs/fanbois?  Quite obviously so.  They say what you want to hear, I dont. 

Bottom line, I didnt post this to convert fanatics.  The facts can speak for themselves, for those with the ears to hear.

Youre wrong. I just get fedup by people with very low knowledge of facts rampaging cause they for some reason dont like the game. There is no facts behind your words, just twisted fragments of the truth. You nay-sayers pick bits and pieces that suits you and make up your own false story of the game Darkfall. Its very easy to say whatever you like about the game if youre implying the Developers lies. Then it can be anything. If you wanna discuss the game then use the sources available for all of us. The way you discuss is more your gut-feeling talking then anything you can back with raw facts.

I wont cry myself to sleep if the game never is released or a vaporware. I do look forward to it alot though since its the only MMORPG worth waiting for as i see it.

Originally posted by Aragon100

 Youre wrong. I just get fedup by people with very low knowledge of facts rampaging cause they for some reason dont like the game. There is no facts behind your words, just twisted fragments of the truth.

There's common sense and logic based on the information available.

There are no facts behind your words. Just blindfaith bullshit.  All you do is repeat the regurgitated crap you're fed by a person that has ZERO credibility and has not backed up one single thing he has ever said with "facts".

You're a lost cause.

Originally posted by Aragon100

The way you discuss is more your gut-feeling talking then anything you can back with raw facts.

Here's a fact for you:

Darkfall has been in development in one form or another form since 2001 and all it has to show for it are 3-4 terrible looking alpha videos that would not take any longer than maybe 2-3 months of development time to produce.

How do you like that fact?  That's all the "facts" anyone needs to see what a complete joke this thing is.

And when Darkfall does not launch this year (which I gurantee you 100% it won't) I'll have another fact to give to you.

explain then please how come Aventurine is getting funds from the EU/Greek State for developing Dakrfall. Are they giving these funds in good faith, without verifying if they are going where intended?

Originally posted by Galadourn

explain then please how come Aventurine is getting funds from the EU/Greek State for developing Dakrfall. Are they giving these funds in good faith, without verifying if they are going where intended?

You do not get indefinitely funded by state grants or funds. Greece is not going to fucken fund development for Aventurines video game. considering the fact that running video games in Greece was ilegal only a few years ago.

They received a grant once back in like 2004 for new Software companies which was not much at all for building a MMORPG. Beyond that there is no way of knowing where they got any other money from or if they even have any anymore.

The fact they placed up convertible bonds for purchase not so long ago just shows they were trying to raise more money.

They were funded  in 2006, not 2004.

And video games in Greece are perfectly legal, lmao; slot-machines were ruled illegal at some point (mistakenly referred to as video games) for taxation purposes, but I don't know if they still are illegal.

2006 is even worse than getting it in 2004 IMO because it just shows they are were living off of hand outs and applying for freebies only 2 years ago while trying to build one of the most complex pieces of software ever

You don't try and raise money while working no something -- you raise it BEFORE and make sure you have a solid budget already in place

Originally posted by Aragon100

Youre wrong. I just get fedup by people with very low knowledge of facts rampaging cause they for some reason dont like the game. There is no facts behind your words, just twisted fragments of the truth. You nay-sayers pick bits and pieces that suits you and make up your own false story of the game Darkfall. Its very easy to say whatever you like about the game if youre implying the Developers lies. Then it can be anything. If you wanna discuss the game then use the sources available for all of us. The way you discuss is more your gut-feeling talking then anything you can back with raw facts.

I wont cry myself to sleep if the game never is released or a vaporware. I do look forward to it alot though since its the only MMORPG worth waiting for as i see it.

It would appear you are the one that doesnt know the facts.  For one, I like the game concept.  For another, the info I link is available from the DFO web site, or interviews of the devs, all easily available to anyone.  I am using the dev's own words to prove my case, there is no "gut-feeling" required. 

Show me where the devs say they restarted the game from scratch in 2003 or 2004.   During those years, the updates from the DEVS say NOTHING of the sort.  In fact, they indicate the game is "almost ready" for public beta, as I have shown via those links over and over.

So, the facts:  Claus formed the idea for Darkfall around 1995 and "got serious" on it about 1997.  Razorwax was formed in 2000 and started coding.  Announced Darkfall in 2001.   Aventurine took the reins in early 2003.  Aventurine continued dev of Darkfall and even in late 2003 made no mention of a "restart" but instead hinted the game was almost ready for public beta.  They had the same basic message every year, but never came out and told the community they were restarting from scratch.  They just didnt, or we would all know about it, and this thread would not exist.

In the begining the big bang created the universe. It slowly cooled and suns and plannets began to form. Our solar system formed and some time later life began on what you would call earth. After millions of years passsed humans came into existence and the development  cycle began. One day the universe will expand and become colder and dark and the suns will die out. All the humans that remain will open a tear to a new universe where humans will begin the beta cycle of Darkfall.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Originally posted by Aragon100

Youre wrong. I just get fedup by people with very low knowledge of facts rampaging cause they for some reason dont like the game. There is no facts behind your words, just twisted fragments of the truth. You nay-sayers pick bits and pieces that suits you and make up your own false story of the game Darkfall. Its very easy to say whatever you like about the game if youre implying the Developers lies. Then it can be anything. If you wanna discuss the game then use the sources available for all of us. The way you discuss is more your gut-feeling talking then anything you can back with raw facts.

I wont cry myself to sleep if the game never is released or a vaporware. I do look forward to it alot though since its the only MMORPG worth waiting for as i see it.

 

It would appear you are the one that doesnt know the facts.  For one, I like the game concept.  For another, the info I link is available from the DFO web site, or interviews of the devs, all easily available to anyone.  I am using the dev's own words to prove my case, there is no "gut-feeling" required. 

Show me where the devs say they restarted the game from scratch in 2003 or 2004.   During those years, the updates from the DEVS say NOTHING of the sort.  In fact, they indicate the game is "almost ready" for public beta, as I have shown via those links over and over.

So, the facts:  Claus formed the idea for Darkfall around 1995 and "got serious" on it about 1997.  Razorwax was formed in 2000 and started coding.  Announced Darkfall in 2001.   Aventurine took the reins in early 2003.  Aventurine continued dev of Darkfall and even in late 2003 made no mention of a "restart" but instead hinted the game was almost ready for public beta.  They had the same basic message every year, but never came out and told the community they were restarting from scratch.  They just didnt, or we would all know about it, and this thread would not exist.

Can't wait to see Aragon's answer to that post.  My money is on him, either saying A) You are putting words in their mouth, B) Reading between the lines, or maybe even C) Well they never said they did or didn't! (In reference to the restarting) Should be interesting to read none the less.  Don't disappoint me, Aragon.

Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by mike470

 

Thank you Theo, just feel like adding a bit here.

No one restarts EVERYTHING.  You can't say they jsut went and burned all of the papers, that stated how everything worked.  That they burned all of the notes about PvP, crafting etc. 

If they had done that, then they would NOT continue to say "beta is near-2003"  "beta is near! -2004"

It just makes no sense.

 

If you closely read everything there is to read about Darkfall youll understand they restarted just about from scratch summer 2003. The ambition level have been raised not just once but many times. They wanna make the game as good as they possibly can.

2005 they raised the bar for the game. Its one of the reasons they didnt go for beta that year.

Here is the old world map Razorwax had as a goal -

http://web.archive.org/web/20020407054828/darkfallonline.com/features/world/dfmap1_1.jpg

And here is the world map of todays Darkfall - the Aventurine map -

http://www.bkbhq.com/index.php?pageid=dfmap

Do you see the differences? New world map is way bigger and it has to be created from scratch which started in summer 2003 when the game just about restarted from scratch.

This discussion is stupid. Developers says im right and youre wrong. Who have more insight in the game, you nay-sayers or the Developers of the game?

 

That does not dispute the fact that the game has been in development sence 2001... when you start drawing  concept art, even if its 4 people the game is in development. Weather  they restart from scratch the game has the same name, same features, its the same game that was started in 2001

Darkfall has been in the planning stage since 1995.

Darkfall Interview [link]
August 29, 2001

Jonric: Let's talk more directly about Darkfall. When did the idea for the game initially arise, and when did you actually start working on it?

Claus Grovdal: I started planning Darkfall about six years ago, after I was tired of MUDs.

Darkfall started development in July 2000 [link] [link]

Jonric: Please introduce Razorwax AS. When and how did the company get started?

Claus Grovdal: 'Razorwax was founded in July 2000 by Kjetil, Ricki and me.'

'Razorwax started developing Darkfall the same day we got our offices up and running.'

Darkfall was announced as being in development in August 2001, 1 year and 1 month after it started development.

Oslo, Norway - Aug. 03, 2001: Oslo Norway based games developer Razorwax announces Darkfall, a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG (MMORPG).

I found indisputable proof that Darkfall was not restarted from scratch when Razorwax merged with Aventurine.

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/380/380319p1.html

December 13, 2002

Razorwax has signed a publishing deal for Darkfall with a Greek publisher. We have moved Razorwax from cold and snowy Oslo, Norway to warm and sunny Athens, Greece. This move was done for various reasons, most importantly to be closer to our publisher, but the climate doesn't hurt either :)

Signing a publishing deal has made us able to hire more (and much needed) developers. We now have a team of 14 extremely talented people working fulltime on Darkfall. Three more will be hired shortly.

An official press release will be issued after the holidays with more information.

In the meantime, you should discuss this amazing news with us on our boards! :)

-Claus

http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/429/429700p3.html

July 22, 2003

'We have the financial strength to make our game and publish it worldwide, and we're about to enter beta testing.'

Impossible for Darkfall to be about to enter beta testing if it had been restarted from scratch only 7 months before.

30 Sep 2003

http://www.warcry.com/news/view/10030

'We've been in a tech beta since September 2nd, testing, working on bugs, tuning and tweaking, adding content, and building the world. We're slightly behind schedule in some areas of development, ahead of schedule in others, and we're always working on new things, the latest being an optional third person perspective that can fit in with our gameplay design. Overall we're very happy with the progress, we don't have any serious problems, and we believe that we'll be able to deliver an advanced beta build for playtesting before long.'

Again impossible for Darkfall to be in "tech beta" and to "be able to deliver an advanced beta build for playtesting before long" if it had been restarted from scratch only 9 months before.

Either the developers are lying or Darkfall was not restarted from scratch when Razorwax merged with Aventurine in December 2002.

i guess many of you know the sphere/irth incident but isnt this whole darkfall- blabla remind you of sth.?!

we the users dont get the inside information about a company until its over...

btw: for those who dont know what i mean: www.ganked.com holds the full story

(check the wiki page of irth for more info and similarity)

in terms of DF... ill will wait like everyone.

Razorwax was founded the 4th of July 2000 in Oslo, Norway by Kjetil Helland, Ricki Sickenger and Claus Grovdal. Their mission statement was to create ?amazingly addictive online games.?

After working in secrecy on their technology and the design of their first game, Darkfall was officially announced in August 2001.

Razorwax signed with Greek publisher and developer Aventurine SA in November 2002, and moved development from a cold and dank basement in Oslo, Norway to bright and modern offices in sunny Athens, Greece.

Aventurine and Razorwax now employ more than 20 people working hard on finishing the groundbreaking MMORPG - Darkfall.

It cant get any clearer then the developers own words from the actual Darkfall Website from march 2003.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030423005853/www.darkfallonline.com/team/team.shtml

Good document history of Aventurine and Darkfall

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surly-s-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurin

Originally posted by gotha

Good document history of Aventurine and Darkfall

 

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surly-s-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurin

I wonder if Surly is clubing a baby seal.

Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by mike470

Originally posted by Krogan

 

---

Originally posted by Souldrainer
IGN Article

---

in 2001, we became aware of a Norwegian-based development team bearing an unusual name, Razorwax. It consisted of only a few people, not nearly the number some observers might have expected given the nature of the project they announced that August
... So the "game" has been in "development" for 7 years now. I don't trust the fanboy wiki page. I do trust IGN though, and they heard about the game straight from the devs in August of 2001.

 

It's getting close to the point where people will get the chance to playtest the game. If they aren't looking at Darkfall now, they'll probably wish they had been. :)

---

-- November 2005

 

So, why the hell isn't the "game" playable by anybody 3 years later? "Soon" is a vague term, but it's not THAT vague.

Answer: The company that started off making vaporware credit card scams is still making vaporware credit card scams. They have made CC scams since day 1, and have never actually released a working game. I dunno' what it's going to take for people to finally shut the door on these asshats, but they are frauds and have always been. There is no Darkfall. Move on.
 

---

 

lol you are such a pathetic fool. In 2001 Razorwax was formed by 4 norweigan guys in a basement, in 2003 they were offered a chance to go big and move to Greece starting over from scratch with Darkfall in a much more ambitious project. 2004 was mostly spend setting up office and recruiting the current 24 members of the team.

 

Then why was beta being announced in 2003 and 2004?

 

I decided to quote alfaroverall from Darkfall main website on this. Easier then to dig through it all again.

[QUOTE]

alfaroverall - Let's have some clarification, shall we?

2002: Plan to have beta in the very near future. This occurred before the existence of Aventurine, or even the idea of Aventurine, and so really you can't put this against them. You can say that forming Aventurine was a bad idea in the first place (though I doubt many would) but you can't really put this against them.
2003: Same thing, also pre-Aventurine.
2004: Claims about beta that you probably could put against them; I haven't read very many of these quotes so I'm not very well-suited to judge here.
2005: Beta signups are posted, with no real claims that beta would actually be soon. How exactly can you put this against them? Your own assumptions got the best of you.
2006: IIRC there was nothing here.
2007: There was an "internal target date" announced of Summer 07. The only thing you can put against them here is announcing their internal target in the first place.
2008: The first truly "official" statement that release by the end of the year.

So yeah...in effect, they've really only made one mistake that you can actually legitimately put against them, out of all this bunch.

Since this most recent claim is "official", however, combined with all the past "Soon" statements, if this particular deadline is not met, the game will most likely fail. Even I, a fairly extreme fanboi, would probably not make it through 2010 waiting for this game. I'd probably stick 'round these parts until they close down the forum anyway, but I would no longer be anticipating Darkfall's release.

[/QUOTE]

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?p=1415827&highlight=Aventurine+%2B+Razorwax+%2B+restart+%2B+2003#post1415827

It's clear to me that you did not even read the IGN article.  Hell, you didn't even read the part I quoted, let alone the whole thing.  THEY SAID "very soon" in 2005.  That was nearly 4 years ago.  Get a grip.
 

Darkfall began in 2000; 4 developers.  Realisically did anyone believe them back than?  I didnt.

Aventurine began in 2003; So they added some more people.  Again 4 people up til this point.

2005: Did anyone really believe that clan beta was going to happen?  Sure fill out the forms but most folks I knew, including me, didnt expect anything til 2007, if at all.

2007: LoD, ex developer talking about game.   This is where I started to think they had a chance.

2008 (present): 50/50 odds that Darkfall will come out and succeed.

Darkfall I would state really didnt began until 2003.

Originally posted by Kshnik

Darkfall began in 2000; 4 developers.  Realisically did anyone believe them back than?  I didnt.

Aventurine began in 2003; So they added some more people.  Again 4 people up til this point.

2005: Did anyone really believe that clan beta was going to happen?  Sure fill out the forms but most folks I knew, including me, didnt expect anything til 2007, if at all.

2007: LoD, ex developer talking about game.   This is where I started to think they had a chance.

2008 (present): 50/50 odds that Darkfall will come out and succeed.

Darkfall I would state really didnt began until 2003.

The nice thing about Razorwax, you didnt have to take it on faith.  They actually showed stuff.  and you know what else they had?  Public testers.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020605063521/www.darkfallonline.com/news/index.shtml

Claiming DF didnt begin until 2003 is just incorrect, as there is proof to the contrary.  I do agree that you cant really believe most of the stuff said by Aventurine though.  When they took over, much changed.  I would have prefered the "4 guys" (and according to Surly, Razorwax had hired  hired seven new employees including five game logic programmers*) kept plugging away. 

*Warcry link

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view//3222-Surly-s-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurin