Originally posted by Isane

Ah I see the point of the thread is just point scoring and getting one up on the forumn posters an ego type of thing i guess. How strange? to nit pick arguing on the total development time.

Great and this is relevant in what context, please explain because once you have the time period nailed down are you going to start comparing relative resource and timescales used so you can then start to use this as a benchmark to prove something?

The argument leads nowhere other than the fact you would like the game delivered in a more tardy manner(an assumption but i'm trying to work out the logic of this when there probably isn't any), or are you just trying to score points again as above.

I remember reading this a while back, I guess this puts it into context for me... Just look at the section where Tasos answers the question about long development. So this is how the developers see it, but you can put whatever spin you want on it.

http://www.shimmergloom.org/index.php?page=7
 

I guess you will find a reason why this has no relevance and will produce your own evidence elsewhere, but until end of 2002 the game seems to have been more of a concept as far as the people with the ideas are concerned.

And its a discussion there is no need for arguments or is this just a childish game you all seem to play here.

(Just had a incredibly severe JAlfrezi earlier so I am sat tyoing at some ungodly hour) I notice COORS yet again has added nothing yet again and that by you statement in reality you are agreeing what I am saying is right that this argument has no point other than to score points yes trolls with egos'.

I dont know how many different ways I can say this.  The point of the thread is to settle the argument.  Say it like it IS, not like anyone wants it to be - whether they are fans, haters, fanbois, skeptics, or whatever.  I am not trying to nail down a time to make some further point or accusation.  This is it.  There is no secret context.

In regards to your link.  As you guessed, I do indeed have a problem with it.  Lets take a look at the relevant section:

Long development: Not long at all. Darkfall started being properly developed at the end of 2002. Before that is was basically 4 very ambitious people (i.e. Erik, Claus, Kjetil and Ricky) doing their best to make a very complicated game that now has around 27 developers. Most of 2003 was spent organizing the work flow, getting the offices ready and training a whole bunch of new developers to use the tools with witch they are making Darkfall. So basically its been in proper development for less that 3 years.

Darkfall started being developed properly at the end of 2002?  Didnt you see the link that ddev provided?  It shows the game had screenshots, was in pre-alpha in EARLY 2002, and even included some public testers!  Please, go look for yourself.  The game is underway during 2002.

Further, your link clearly states "most of 2003 was spent organizing the work flow, getting the offices ready and training a whole bunch of new developers to use the tools with witch they are making Darkfall". 

Really?  If that is true, why did the devs say this:

8-3-2003

"Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages"

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=4746

Or this:

9-30-2003

"Overall we're very happy with the progress, we don't have any serious problems, and we believe that we'll be able to deliver an advanced beta build for playtesting before long. "

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=5542

Obviously, they did not spend most of 2003 getting ready to start from scratch.  They are telling us the game is almost ready for public beta!!  Those are the DEVS saying this.  Dont you believe them? 

So again, I just want the truth.  When someone tried to tell us Aventurine was a "well respected defense contractor", I didnt buy that either.  When I kept hearing that Aventurine started over from scratch in 2003, it didnt ring true.  And the words from the devs at the time, do not match what was in your link. 

Simply...I just wanna know.

IGN Article

---

in 2001, we became aware of a Norwegian-based development team bearing an unusual name, Razorwax. It consisted of only a few people, not nearly the number some observers might have expected given the nature of the project they announced that August

---

---

It's getting close to the point where people will get the chance to playtest the game. If they aren't looking at Darkfall now, they'll probably wish they had been. :)

---

So, why the hell isn't the "game" playable by anybody 3 years later? "Soon" is a vague term, but it's not THAT vague.

Answer: The company that started off making vaporware credit card scams is still making vaporware credit card scams. They have made CC scams since day 1, and have never actually released a working game. I dunno' what it's going to take for people to finally shut the door on these asshats, but they are frauds and have always been. There is no Darkfall. Move on.

Darkfall in its current form has been in development since late 2004, anyone who gives you that 2001 bullshit are just trolls and pay them no mind.

Originally posted by Krogan

Darkfall in its current form has been in development since late 2004, anyone who gives you that 2001 bullshit are just trolls and pay them no mind.

Since 2004?!  State your proof.

...which you don't have.

its been about 8 years now.. and that is correct. the game was in the starting stages of development  in 2001.

---

Originally posted by Souldrainer
IGN Article

---

in 2001, we became aware of a Norwegian-based development team bearing an unusual name, Razorwax. It consisted of only a few people, not nearly the number some observers might have expected given the nature of the project they announced that August
... So the "game" has been in "development" for 7 years now. I don't trust the fanboy wiki page. I do trust IGN though, and they heard about the game straight from the devs in August of 2001.

It's getting close to the point where people will get the chance to playtest the game. If they aren't looking at Darkfall now, they'll probably wish they had been. :)

---

-- November 2005

So, why the hell isn't the "game" playable by anybody 3 years later? "Soon" is a vague term, but it's not THAT vague.

Answer: The company that started off making vaporware credit card scams is still making vaporware credit card scams. They have made CC scams since day 1, and have never actually released a working game. I dunno' what it's going to take for people to finally shut the door on these asshats, but they are frauds and have always been. There is no Darkfall. Move on.

---

lol you are such a pathetic fool. In 2001 Razorwax was formed by 4 norweigan guys in a basement, in 2003 they were offered a chance to go big and move to Greece starting over from scratch with Darkfall in a much more ambitious project. 2004 was mostly spend setting up office and recruiting the current 24 members of the team.

Originally posted by Krogan

 

---

Originally posted by Souldrainer
IGN Article

---

in 2001, we became aware of a Norwegian-based development team bearing an unusual name, Razorwax. It consisted of only a few people, not nearly the number some observers might have expected given the nature of the project they announced that August
... So the "game" has been in "development" for 7 years now. I don't trust the fanboy wiki page. I do trust IGN though, and they heard about the game straight from the devs in August of 2001.

 

It's getting close to the point where people will get the chance to playtest the game. If they aren't looking at Darkfall now, they'll probably wish they had been. :)

---

-- November 2005

 

So, why the hell isn't the "game" playable by anybody 3 years later? "Soon" is a vague term, but it's not THAT vague.

Answer: The company that started off making vaporware credit card scams is still making vaporware credit card scams. They have made CC scams since day 1, and have never actually released a working game. I dunno' what it's going to take for people to finally shut the door on these asshats, but they are frauds and have always been. There is no Darkfall. Move on.
 

---

 

lol you are such a pathetic fool. In 2001 Razorwax was formed by 4 norweigan guys in a basement, in 2003 they were offered a chance to go big and move to Greece starting over from scratch with Darkfall in a much more ambitious project. 2004 was mostly spend setting up office and recruiting the current 24 members of the team.

Then why was beta being announced in 2003 and 2004?

---

Originally posted by Krogan
lol you are such a pathetic fool. In 2001 Razorwax was formed by 4 norweigan guys in a basement, in 2003 they were offered a chance to go big and move to Greece starting over from scratch with Darkfall in a much more ambitious project. 2004 was mostly spend setting up office and recruiting the current 24 members of the team.

---

Quoting direct sources that are considered by many to be the industry gold standard makes me a pathetic fool. Calling a game out for announcing a beta in 2003, 2004, and 2005 that has not happened makes me a pathetic fool. Following the origins of this company back makes me a pathetic fool. Not everybody can be on their toes and stay vigilant like you, Krogan.
 

Originally posted by Krogan

 

 

lol you are such a pathetic fool. In 2001 Razorwax was formed by 4 norweigan guys in a basement, in 2003 they were offered a chance to go big and move to Greece starting over from scratch with Darkfall in a much more ambitious project. 2004 was mostly spend setting up office and recruiting the current 24 members of the team.

You sir, are not well informed.  Almost nothing you say is correct.

Razorwax was formed in 2000.  They had offices in Oslo, an investor (who lost $517,000) and started work on the 3D game engine the same year. 

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view//3222-Surly-s-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurin

What was happening in 2004?  Lets get it from the source, Tasos:

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=9970

All you have to do is read the Darkfall news forum.  For crying out loud, they leave a paper trail!  Quit listening to all the BS.  Go see for yourself and stop making me post link after link.

Originally posted by mike470

Originally posted by Krogan

 

---

Originally posted by Souldrainer
IGN Article

---

in 2001, we became aware of a Norwegian-based development team bearing an unusual name, Razorwax. It consisted of only a few people, not nearly the number some observers might have expected given the nature of the project they announced that August
... So the "game" has been in "development" for 7 years now. I don't trust the fanboy wiki page. I do trust IGN though, and they heard about the game straight from the devs in August of 2001.

 

It's getting close to the point where people will get the chance to playtest the game. If they aren't looking at Darkfall now, they'll probably wish they had been. :)

---

-- November 2005

 

So, why the hell isn't the "game" playable by anybody 3 years later? "Soon" is a vague term, but it's not THAT vague.

Answer: The company that started off making vaporware credit card scams is still making vaporware credit card scams. They have made CC scams since day 1, and have never actually released a working game. I dunno' what it's going to take for people to finally shut the door on these asshats, but they are frauds and have always been. There is no Darkfall. Move on.
 

---

 

lol you are such a pathetic fool. In 2001 Razorwax was formed by 4 norweigan guys in a basement, in 2003 they were offered a chance to go big and move to Greece starting over from scratch with Darkfall in a much more ambitious project. 2004 was mostly spend setting up office and recruiting the current 24 members of the team.

 

Then why was beta being announced in 2003 and 2004?

I decided to quote alfaroverall from Darkfall main website on this. Easier then to dig through it all again.

[QUOTE]

alfaroverall - Let's have some clarification, shall we?

2002: Plan to have beta in the very near future. This occurred before the existence of Aventurine, or even the idea of Aventurine, and so really you can't put this against them. You can say that forming Aventurine was a bad idea in the first place (though I doubt many would) but you can't really put this against them.
2003: Same thing, also pre-Aventurine.
2004: Claims about beta that you probably could put against them; I haven't read very many of these quotes so I'm not very well-suited to judge here.
2005: Beta signups are posted, with no real claims that beta would actually be soon. How exactly can you put this against them? Your own assumptions got the best of you.
2006: IIRC there was nothing here.
2007: There was an "internal target date" announced of Summer 07. The only thing you can put against them here is announcing their internal target in the first place.
2008: The first truly "official" statement that release by the end of the year.

So yeah...in effect, they've really only made one mistake that you can actually legitimately put against them, out of all this bunch.

Since this most recent claim is "official", however, combined with all the past "Soon" statements, if this particular deadline is not met, the game will most likely fail. Even I, a fairly extreme fanboi, would probably not make it through 2010 waiting for this game. I'd probably stick 'round these parts until they close down the forum anyway, but I would no longer be anticipating Darkfall's release.

[/QUOTE]

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?p=1415827&highlight=Aventurine+%2B+Razorwax+%2B+restart+%2B+2003#post1415827

Originally posted by Aragon100

I decided to quote alfaroverall from Darkfall main website on this. Easier then to dig through it all again.

 Easier, perhaps, but accurate - no.

alfaroverall - Let's have some clarification, shall we?

Too bad this post did little to clarify anything.

2002: Plan to have beta in the very near future. This occurred before the existence of Aventurine, or even the idea of Aventurine, and so really you can't put this against them. You can say that forming Aventurine was a bad idea in the first place (though I doubt many would) but you can't really put this against them.

 2002 is Razorwax, true enough.  Still talking about the same game - Darkfall.

2003: Same thing, also pre-Aventurine.

False.  Razorwax cut ties with its investor in 2002, and by early/mid 2003 were in Greece.  Tasos has never been part of Razorwax, he is Aventurine.  Here is Tasos in 2003:

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=554

2004: Claims about beta that you probably could put against them; I haven't read very many of these quotes so I'm not very well-suited to judge here.

Agreed, you can hold this against Aventurine.

2005: Beta signups are posted, with no real claims that beta would actually be soon. How exactly can you put this against them? Your own assumptions got the best of you.

Dont be ridiculous.  This was no typical beta signup.  It was clans, by invitaion only.  My clan applied and was accepted.  We were told how many "primary" testers we could have and unlimited "secondary" testers.  Aventurine requested contact info for all these testers, and it was provided.  In any case, Clan Beta has NOT started, and it has been over 2.5 YEARS.  By ANY definition of "soon" this is outrageous.

2006: IIRC there was nothing here.

No doubt I can go to the DFO forums and find it.  I wont even bother.

2007: There was an "internal target date" announced of Summer 07. The only thing you can put against them here is announcing their internal target in the first place.

No, announcing a target is not a problem.  Missing it by a country mile is.

2008: The first truly "official" statement that release by the end of the year.

So yeah...in effect, they've really only made one mistake that you can actually legitimately put against them, out of all this bunch.

Poppycock.

Since this most recent claim is "official", however, combined with all the past "Soon" statements, if this particular deadline is not met, the game will most likely fail. Even I, a fairly extreme fanboi, would probably not make it through 2010 waiting for this game. I'd probably stick 'round these parts until they close down the forum anyway, but I would no longer be anticipating Darkfall's release.

Fair enough.  Just keep in mind, even you have stated that given enough time and disappointment you will give up.  Remember that others have already been through all that.

 http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?p=1415827&highlight=Aventurine+%2B+Razorwax+%2B+restart+%2B+2003#post1415827

Thank you Theo, just feel like adding a bit here.

No one restarts EVERYTHING.  You can't say they jsut went and burned all of the papers, that stated how everything worked.  That they burned all of the notes about PvP, crafting etc. 

If they had done that, then they would NOT continue to say "beta is near-2003"  "beta is near! -2004"

It just makes no sense.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

 

Originally posted by Aragon100

I decided to quote alfaroverall from Darkfall main website on this. Easier then to dig through it all again.

 Easier, perhaps, but accurate - no.

alfaroverall - Let's have some clarification, shall we?

Too bad this post did little to clarify anything.

2002: Plan to have beta in the very near future. This occurred before the existence of Aventurine, or even the idea of Aventurine, and so really you can't put this against them. You can say that forming Aventurine was a bad idea in the first place (though I doubt many would) but you can't really put this against them.

 2002 is Razorwax, true enough.  Still talking about the same game - Darkfall.

Not the same game by far. Summer 2003 game were just about totally restarted, new game world, new coding and new game engine. Razorwax Darkfall had very little to do with Darkfall of today.

2003: Same thing, also pre-Aventurine.

False.  Razorwax cut ties with its investor in 2002, and by early/mid 2003 were in Greece.  Tasos has never been part of Razorwax, he is Aventurine.  Here is Tasos in 2003:

Planned beta 2003 is Razorwax planned one not Aventurine. Preparations for it started fall 2002, before the merge. It was a beta based on Razorwax development and Razorwax promises. Game under development by Aventurine now had nothing to do with this beta.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=554

2004: Claims about beta that you probably could put against them; I haven't read very many of these quotes so I'm not very well-suited to judge here.

Agreed, you can hold this against Aventurine.

2005: Beta signups are posted, with no real claims that beta would actually be soon. How exactly can you put this against them? Your own assumptions got the best of you.

Dont be ridiculous.  This was no typical beta signup.  It was clans, by invitaion only.  My clan applied and was accepted.  We were told how many "primary" testers we could have and unlimited "secondary" testers.  Aventurine requested contact info for all these testers, and it was provided.  In any case, Clan Beta has NOT started, and it has been over 2.5 YEARS.  By ANY definition of "soon" this is outrageous.

Not one official beta date set by developers for a beta 2005. Signup yes but no date.

2006: IIRC there was nothing here.

No doubt I can go to the DFO forums and find it.  I wont even bother.

2007: There was an "internal target date" announced of Summer 07. The only thing you can put against them here is announcing their internal target in the first place.

No, announcing a target is not a problem.  Missing it by a country mile is.

No promices of a beta 2007 and no official release date set. So since no date is set there isnt anything to miss.

2008: The first truly "official" statement that release by the end of the year.

So yeah...in effect, they've really only made one mistake that you can actually legitimately put against them, out of all this bunch.

Poppycock.

Since this most recent claim is "official", however, combined with all the past "Soon" statements, if this particular deadline is not met, the game will most likely fail. Even I, a fairly extreme fanboi, would probably not make it through 2010 waiting for this game. I'd probably stick 'round these parts until they close down the forum anyway, but I would no longer be anticipating Darkfall's release.

Fair enough.  Just keep in mind, even you have stated that given enough time and disappointment you will give up.  Remember that others have already been through all that.

I been arround since 2001, have you?

 http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?p=1415827&highlight=Aventurine+%2B+Razorwax+%2B+restart+%2B+2003#post1415827

 

Originally posted by mike470

 

Thank you Theo, just feel like adding a bit here.

No one restarts EVERYTHING.  You can't say they jsut went and burned all of the papers, that stated how everything worked.  That they burned all of the notes about PvP, crafting etc. 

If they had done that, then they would NOT continue to say "beta is near-2003"  "beta is near! -2004"

It just makes no sense.

If you closely read everything there is to read about Darkfall youll understand they restarted just about from scratch summer 2003. The ambition level have been raised not just once but many times. They wanna make the game as good as they possibly can.

2005 they raised the bar for the game. Its one of the reasons they didnt go for beta that year.

Here is the old world map Razorwax had as a goal -

http://web.archive.org/web/20020407054828/darkfallonline.com/features/world/dfmap1_1.jpg

And here is the world map of todays Darkfall - the Aventurine map -

http://www.bkbhq.com/index.php?pageid=dfmap

Do you see the differences? New world map is way bigger and it has to be created from scratch which started in summer 2003 when the game just about restarted from scratch.

This discussion is stupid. Developers says im right and youre wrong. Who have more insight in the game, you nay-sayers or the Developers of the game?

Arguing with believers is kind of stupid, I have to admit that.  They just want it so bad, they are willing to ignore anything counter to their hopes.

Now, who really has something to gain by spinning the facts?  Me?  Obviously not.  The devs/fanbois?  Quite obviously so.  They say what you want to hear, I dont. 

Bottom line, I didnt post this to convert fanatics.  The facts can speak for themselves, for those with the ears to hear.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Arguing with believers is kind of stupid, I have to admit that.  They just want it so bad, they are willing to ignore anything counter to their hopes.

Now, who really has something to gain by spinning the facts?  Me?  Obviously not.  The devs/fanbois?  Quite obviously so.  They say what you want to hear, I dont. 

Bottom line, I didnt post this to convert fanatics.  The facts can speak for themselves, for those with the ears to hear.

Youre wrong. I just get fedup by people with very low knowledge of facts rampaging cause they for some reason dont like the game. There is no facts behind your words, just twisted fragments of the truth. You nay-sayers pick bits and pieces that suits you and make up your own false story of the game Darkfall. Its very easy to say whatever you like about the game if youre implying the Developers lies. Then it can be anything. If you wanna discuss the game then use the sources available for all of us. The way you discuss is more your gut-feeling talking then anything you can back with raw facts.

I wont cry myself to sleep if the game never is released or a vaporware. I do look forward to it alot though since its the only MMORPG worth waiting for as i see it.

Originally posted by Aragon100

 Youre wrong. I just get fedup by people with very low knowledge of facts rampaging cause they for some reason dont like the game. There is no facts behind your words, just twisted fragments of the truth.

There's common sense and logic based on the information available.

There are no facts behind your words. Just blindfaith bullshit.  All you do is repeat the regurgitated crap you're fed by a person that has ZERO credibility and has not backed up one single thing he has ever said with "facts".

You're a lost cause.

Originally posted by Aragon100

The way you discuss is more your gut-feeling talking then anything you can back with raw facts.

Here's a fact for you:

Darkfall has been in development in one form or another form since 2001 and all it has to show for it are 3-4 terrible looking alpha videos that would not take any longer than maybe 2-3 months of development time to produce.

How do you like that fact?  That's all the "facts" anyone needs to see what a complete joke this thing is.

And when Darkfall does not launch this year (which I gurantee you 100% it won't) I'll have another fact to give to you.

explain then please how come Aventurine is getting funds from the EU/Greek State for developing Dakrfall. Are they giving these funds in good faith, without verifying if they are going where intended?

Originally posted by Galadourn

explain then please how come Aventurine is getting funds from the EU/Greek State for developing Dakrfall. Are they giving these funds in good faith, without verifying if they are going where intended?

You do not get indefinitely funded by state grants or funds. Greece is not going to fucken fund development for Aventurines video game. considering the fact that running video games in Greece was ilegal only a few years ago.

They received a grant once back in like 2004 for new Software companies which was not much at all for building a MMORPG. Beyond that there is no way of knowing where they got any other money from or if they even have any anymore.

The fact they placed up convertible bonds for purchase not so long ago just shows they were trying to raise more money.

They were funded  in 2006, not 2004.

And video games in Greece are perfectly legal, lmao; slot-machines were ruled illegal at some point (mistakenly referred to as video games) for taxation purposes, but I don't know if they still are illegal.

2006 is even worse than getting it in 2004 IMO because it just shows they are were living off of hand outs and applying for freebies only 2 years ago while trying to build one of the most complex pieces of software ever

You don't try and raise money while working no something -- you raise it BEFORE and make sure you have a solid budget already in place

Originally posted by Aragon100

Youre wrong. I just get fedup by people with very low knowledge of facts rampaging cause they for some reason dont like the game. There is no facts behind your words, just twisted fragments of the truth. You nay-sayers pick bits and pieces that suits you and make up your own false story of the game Darkfall. Its very easy to say whatever you like about the game if youre implying the Developers lies. Then it can be anything. If you wanna discuss the game then use the sources available for all of us. The way you discuss is more your gut-feeling talking then anything you can back with raw facts.

I wont cry myself to sleep if the game never is released or a vaporware. I do look forward to it alot though since its the only MMORPG worth waiting for as i see it.

It would appear you are the one that doesnt know the facts.  For one, I like the game concept.  For another, the info I link is available from the DFO web site, or interviews of the devs, all easily available to anyone.  I am using the dev's own words to prove my case, there is no "gut-feeling" required. 

Show me where the devs say they restarted the game from scratch in 2003 or 2004.   During those years, the updates from the DEVS say NOTHING of the sort.  In fact, they indicate the game is "almost ready" for public beta, as I have shown via those links over and over.

So, the facts:  Claus formed the idea for Darkfall around 1995 and "got serious" on it about 1997.  Razorwax was formed in 2000 and started coding.  Announced Darkfall in 2001.   Aventurine took the reins in early 2003.  Aventurine continued dev of Darkfall and even in late 2003 made no mention of a "restart" but instead hinted the game was almost ready for public beta.  They had the same basic message every year, but never came out and told the community they were restarting from scratch.  They just didnt, or we would all know about it, and this thread would not exist.

In the begining the big bang created the universe. It slowly cooled and suns and plannets began to form. Our solar system formed and some time later life began on what you would call earth. After millions of years passsed humans came into existence and the development  cycle began. One day the universe will expand and become colder and dark and the suns will die out. All the humans that remain will open a tear to a new universe where humans will begin the beta cycle of Darkfall.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

Originally posted by Aragon100

Youre wrong. I just get fedup by people with very low knowledge of facts rampaging cause they for some reason dont like the game. There is no facts behind your words, just twisted fragments of the truth. You nay-sayers pick bits and pieces that suits you and make up your own false story of the game Darkfall. Its very easy to say whatever you like about the game if youre implying the Developers lies. Then it can be anything. If you wanna discuss the game then use the sources available for all of us. The way you discuss is more your gut-feeling talking then anything you can back with raw facts.

I wont cry myself to sleep if the game never is released or a vaporware. I do look forward to it alot though since its the only MMORPG worth waiting for as i see it.

 

It would appear you are the one that doesnt know the facts.  For one, I like the game concept.  For another, the info I link is available from the DFO web site, or interviews of the devs, all easily available to anyone.  I am using the dev's own words to prove my case, there is no "gut-feeling" required. 

Show me where the devs say they restarted the game from scratch in 2003 or 2004.   During those years, the updates from the DEVS say NOTHING of the sort.  In fact, they indicate the game is "almost ready" for public beta, as I have shown via those links over and over.

So, the facts:  Claus formed the idea for Darkfall around 1995 and "got serious" on it about 1997.  Razorwax was formed in 2000 and started coding.  Announced Darkfall in 2001.   Aventurine took the reins in early 2003.  Aventurine continued dev of Darkfall and even in late 2003 made no mention of a "restart" but instead hinted the game was almost ready for public beta.  They had the same basic message every year, but never came out and told the community they were restarting from scratch.  They just didnt, or we would all know about it, and this thread would not exist.

Can't wait to see Aragon's answer to that post.  My money is on him, either saying A) You are putting words in their mouth, B) Reading between the lines, or maybe even C) Well they never said they did or didn't! (In reference to the restarting) Should be interesting to read none the less.  Don't disappoint me, Aragon.