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EverQuest II

Everquest II 

Game Suggestions  » Good vs Evil......why bother?

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28 posts found
  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

 
OP  6/02/08 12:08:49 AM#1

Hello all

I recently started playing EQ2 again and I must admit that I am rather hooked. Its certainly one of the better mmo's in my opinion. However despite its many good points there is one particular area of the game that really grates on my nerves.

EQ2 is based on a good vs evil plot. When you create a character you are forced to choose a side. If you are one of the good races then you must start in Qeynos or Kelethin. If you are evil then you must start in Freeport or Neriak. I personally like playing as a dwarf, so I started in Qeynos.

So there I am happily venturing across the land and swinging my axe at the forces of evil and along comes a gnarly old troll. I bring my axe up ready and snarl defiantly at the beast. In response the troll grins and says "Wanna join my group?". This happens all the time with ogres, dark elves, ratonga and any other evil races wanting to go adventuring with me.

I know that I could play on a PvP server (not a big fan of that though to be honest) but that still doesnt get around the fact that players can betray their home cities and go to the opposing side. I'm sorry but there is no chance in hell that Antonia Bayle would ever allow a troll to wander the streets of Qeynos. I dont buy that typical "Oh but I'm a good troll" as its just crap. I know that there are probably lots of kiddies that like the idea of playing a good dark elf like Drizzt (D&D novel) but he was meant to an exception. It doesnt really work when large bands of dark elves are roaming freely around Qeynos. At one point an ogre in my group slew a qeynosian guard and all I could do was just sit by and watch or join in! How ridiculous!

I am well aware that this doesnt stop me from playing the game and I am still having fun with it of course. Many of my guild members are a mixture of good and evil. It just seems a shame to me that SOE didnt make their game fit with the original setting and lore. They created a story and then just abandoned it in the game. Very few players I have spoken to about it seem to be bothered by it which seems kind of odd to me really. Although roleplaying has always been a generally pointless excercise in mmos (afterall you cant do anything meaningful that has any impact on the static gameworld can you) I often like chatting in character to keep up the immersion factor. However the fact that being good or evil in this game is irrelevant makes roleplaying even more pointless. It would be nice if there was a server that didnt allow evil and good players to mix with each other or betray their home cities (although of course I know there wont evr be one). Then my dwarf would never be faced with the dilemma of having to offend his ancestors by fighting alongside a bloody troll :)

Has anyone else wondered about this or is it just me that likes a little consistency in my games?

ps. Before anyone says it, I know that I can just refuse to group with evil players but thats not really the point is it.

  APRAurore

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/03
Posts: 330

Itinerant MMO player.

6/30/08 2:32:49 AM#2

Actually, I welcome the fact that in EQ2 you can betray sides. It's one of the only games that has this feature and imo is more in the roleplay spirit than not having it. Like in D&D, there are always exceptions, such as the fallen angel and the redeemed demon/devil. True, they're meant to be exceptions, but then if you look at it that way, every single player is an exception because they're always more powerful than the non-adventuring NPCs that are strolling around villages, towns, whatever. Does that mean that there are too many exceptional characters walking around? Yes it does, but then that is the nature of gaming.

 

If  you do come across something like a Troll Paladin, he's no longer evil, he's good. I would go by the class more than the actual race of the character. And if you're into roleplay, it's more to do with how the person roleplays his character than the race/class combo.

Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.

  funnylumpy

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/06
Posts: 215

The best fun is to game with your friends. :)

6/30/08 2:39:06 AM#3

isn't most mmo's good vs evil , light vs darkness??

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

 
OP  6/30/08 8:04:59 AM#4
Originally posted by APRAurore

Actually, I welcome the fact that in EQ2 you can betray sides. It's one of the only games that has this feature and imo is more in the roleplay spirit than not having it. Like in D&D, there are always exceptions, such as the fallen angel and the redeemed demon/devil. True, they're meant to be exceptions, but then if you look at it that way, every single player is an exception because they're always more powerful than the non-adventuring NPCs that are strolling around villages, towns, whatever. Does that mean that there are too many exceptional characters walking around? Yes it does, but then that is the nature of gaming.

 

If  you do come across something like a Troll Paladin, he's no longer evil, he's good. I would go by the class more than the actual race of the character. And if you're into roleplay, it's more to do with how the person roleplays his character than the race/class combo.

Like I said most players of EQ2 have this view. Thats fine for them of course. Its also why I have now left the game and gone back to playing WoW (yet again). I like the level of detail in EQ2 (although the gameworld is certainly very lifeless and wooden in comparison) but despite its cartoony look WoW sticks to its storyline and has a much more convincing and well designed gameworld. It perhaps wouldnt be too bad in EQ2 if it wasnt for the fact that the races are so extremely different. However I cant just "ignore" the players race when they are a hulking giant Ogre or some green, slimy, snarling Troll......a very clearly racial enemy of a Dwarf, Halfling or an Elf for example. SOE may as well go the whole way and allow us to play as Gnolls and Orcs or any of the other monsters for that matter.

Actually sod it! I want to play as an evil Undead Sentinel or maybe a Gelatinous Cube that has decided to betray its kind and be "nice and fluffy", completely going against the essence of what it actually is. Antonia Bayle can then go to war against Freeport with her army of undead, demonic monsters! Hmmm......Lord of the Rings would have been a brilliant film if SOE had got involved with it lol. Orcs and Goblins fighting alongside Elves and Dwarves! Fantastic!! LMAO!

As for roleplaying it......well......there isnt really any choice is there. Its not down to the players.....its down to what the badly designed game says......and if the Troll player has done the stupid task of killing a billion Gnolls so he can be labeled as "fluffy" then there isnt anything I as a player can do about it is there. Thats not roleplay. Thats having my ability to roleplay effectively taken away.......but like I said roleplaying doesnt really matter in mmos and EQ2 highlights that even more than other games.

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

 
OP  6/30/08 8:09:04 AM#5
Originally posted by funnylumpy

isn't most mmo's good vs evil , light vs darkness??

Yeah.....ummm.....you missed the point.

Most games are indeed based on a good vs evil plot. However most games stick to the plot while EQ2 does not. Your alignment is clearly defined at character creation by your race (which then gives you access to the relevantly associated good or evil class) but it allows creatures of opposite alignments to work together which is ridiculous.

  Peregrine2

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/06
Posts: 169

6/30/08 11:42:51 AM#6

Personally I believe this comes from two things - the "war" in the EQ2 world was always considered more of a cold war, competing cities with different ideas taking different paths to success, and was never an out an out war. There never was an idea that this was the kind of hot war between the factions as in WoW for example.  Also, with being able to betray between factions as the designers intended, the sort of rigid faction structure you seem to want could never happen.

 

I'd say really your only options for making it like this are playing on the PVP server, or just roleplaying that you won't group with the other side. It definitely limits your grouping options though.

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

 
OP  7/01/08 7:06:09 AM#7
Originally posted by Peregrine2

Personally I believe this comes from two things - the "war" in the EQ2 world was always considered more of a cold war, competing cities with different ideas taking different paths to success, and was never an out an out war. There never was an idea that this was the kind of hot war between the factions as in WoW for example.  Also, with being able to betray between factions as the designers intended, the sort of rigid faction structure you seem to want could never happen.

 

I'd say really your only options for making it like this are playing on the PVP server, or just roleplaying that you won't group with the other side. It definitely limits your grouping options though.

Yeah your right. Thats just the way EQ2 has evolved unfortunately. I'm sure I remember it being much better and more believable in the original EQ but maybe evil and good races liked each other in that one too. I'm sure they didnt though. Oh well there will be better games coming out anyway so no worries. I dont play EQ2 now anyway as its far too poncy for my tastes so its not really an issue for me any more.

  Elsabolts

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 2621

Life Liberty and the Pursuit of those that would threaten It

7/01/08 7:12:13 AM#8

OP excellent point.

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

 
OP  7/01/08 9:05:59 AM#9
Originally posted by Elsabolts

OP excellent point.

Thankyou. At last I can rest comfortably in the knowledge that I am not the only one. It seems that not everyone is so willing to suck up any junk SOE feeds them in an attempt to pander to fluffy people.

Oh I've made an evil troll character but my friend is a good fairy. SOE please make it so we can play together even though by the nature of the game we obviously should not be able to! Boo hoo hoo!

Trolls and Fairies going on a picnic together? Get stuffed LOL

  SaibotKang

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/07
Posts: 90

7/03/08 2:49:33 AM#10

Its just another aspect of character customization, in a genre that usually allows very little. The lore in EQ2 is not really to be fawned over and taken seriously anyways, the whole thing in substance is "fluff" as you put it so many times, I dont see how this one aspect kills the story any more than the SOE devs routinely do with their ideas. EQ2 was designed to be a pve game, they had really no intentions of changing that at launch so wether races "got a long" together or not is and was pretty much irrelvent. Lets say there was no betrayal system and the goodies and the baddies are both camping for the same epic mob, just staring at each other, unable to interact in anyway other than "/tell trollface hay is it ok if we go first?". Thats just awkward and its glaringly obvious it makes no difference if the guy is a troll or a dark elf in the scheme of things. Really no different in the long run if you live next door to one. The betrayal aspect of the game just establishes some precednt.

The only aspect I can see making sense is if they didnt allow betrayals on the pvp servers. Or if the two main cities had some sort of relevence and competition with each other except for an implied stand off. Otherwise it just doesnt serve any purpose to keep them seperate.

  User Deleted
7/03/08 2:56:41 AM#11

Good, bad, I'm they guy with the gun

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

 
OP  7/03/08 5:21:42 AM#12
Originally posted by SaibotKang

Its just another aspect of character customization, in a genre that usually allows very little. The lore in EQ2 is not really to be fawned over and taken seriously anyways, the whole thing in substance is "fluff" as you put it so many times, I dont see how this one aspect kills the story any more than the SOE devs routinely do with their ideas. EQ2 was designed to be a pve game, they had really no intentions of changing that at launch so wether races "got a long" together or not is and was pretty much irrelvent. Lets say there was no betrayal system and the goodies and the baddies are both camping for the same epic mob, just staring at each other, unable to interact in anyway other than "/tell trollface hay is it ok if we go first?". Thats just awkward and its glaringly obvious it makes no difference if the guy is a troll or a dark elf in the scheme of things. Really no different in the long run if you live next door to one. The betrayal aspect of the game just establishes some precednt.

The only aspect I can see making sense is if they didnt allow betrayals on the pvp servers. Or if the two main cities had some sort of relevence and competition with each other except for an implied stand off. Otherwise it just doesnt serve any purpose to keep them seperate.

Oh I totally see your point.......but then it really just highlights how badly designed EQ2 actually is. SOE decided to create a backstory of a good city vs an evil city which isnt even particularly interesting anyway and then decided to make it a PvE game where players cant actually do anything to their enemies! Surely it must have been blatantly obvious to them that it was a totally flawed idea? It gives the players the impression that the race they pick means something when in fact everyone is actually on the same side. Its an online game where players are supposed to interact with each other in a way that is relevant to the world the game is set in. If its not intended to be that way then SOE should not have set it up as such.

Of course no game should be taken completely seriously (its just a game afterall) but if the games lore completely contradicts itself by allowing players to do things they should not really be able to do then......well......why bother having the lore there at all then? Why not just come up with a basic background story with minimal information and just leave the players to it? The lore of an online game is one of the major parts of it. It helps to distract the player from the fact that the game itself is actually rather basic and uninvolving. It helps to suspend the persons belief and immerse them in an imaginative fantasy world. Its a bit like having a Star Wars game in which the Empire cant fight against the rebels. It completely defeats the point of the game.

The bit you said about "enemy" races camping the same area and not being able to do anything other than chat to each other......well......thats the whole point isnt it? EQ2's game does not fit the story at all. Surely they could have come up with some way for players to do something! Its an online game for gods sake! Basicly SOE just decided that they couldnt be bothered and instead went the opposite direction and said "ok well we've messed up here havent we......oh well sod it! We maw as well just ditch the storyline and just let everyone team up! Yeah we know it doesnt make any sense but it doesnt matter because people are dumb asses anyway and they wont even notice. They dont care about story or realism. They just want to go up levels and get phat loot. They will just buy any old crap we give them anyway. Ha ha ha! My oh my I never realised making an online game would be so easy. Fancy a cup of tea?"

So you dont see how that one aspect kills the story then? What......the fact that the players cant actively participate in that story properly? Hmmm......sorry I fail to see your logic.

  SaibotKang

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/07
Posts: 90

7/03/08 6:00:13 AM#13
Originally posted by neonwire

Oh I totally see your point.......but then it really just highlights how badly designed EQ2 actually is. SOE decided to create a backstory of a good city vs an evil city which isnt even particularly interesting anyway and then decided to make it a PvE game where players cant actually do anything to their enemies! Surely it must have been blatantly obvious to them that it was a totally flawed idea? It gives the players the impression that the race they pick means something when in fact everyone is actually on the same side. Its an online game where players are supposed to interact with each other in a way that is relevant to the world the game is set in. If its not intended to be that way then SOE should not have set it up as such.

Of course no game should be taken completely seriously (its just a game afterall) but if the games lore completely contradicts itself by allowing players to do things they should not really be able to do then......well......why bother having the lore there at all then? Why not just come up with a basic background story with minimal information and just leave the players to it? The lore of an online game is one of the major parts of it. It helps to distract the player from the fact that the game itself is actually rather basic and uninvolving. It helps to suspend the persons belief and immerse them in an imaginative fantasy world. Its a bit like having a Star Wars game in which the Empire cant fight against the rebels. It completely defeats the point of the game.

The bit you said about "enemy" races camping the same area and not being able to do anything other than chat to each other......well......thats the whole point isnt it? EQ2's game does not fit the story at all. Surely they could have come up with some way for players to do something! Its an online game for gods sake! Basicly SOE just decided that they couldnt be bothered and instead went the opposite direction and said "ok well we've messed up here havent we......oh well sod it! We maw as well just ditch the storyline and just let everyone team up! Yeah we know it doesnt make any sense but it doesnt matter because people are dumb asses anyway and they wont even notice. They dont care about story or realism. They just want to go up levels and get phat loot. They will just buy any old crap we give them anyway. Ha ha ha! My oh my I never realised making an online game would be so easy. Fancy a cup of tea?"

So you dont see how that one aspect kills the story then? What......the fact that the players cant actively participate in that story properly? Hmmm......sorry I fail to see your logic.


 

You're taking the point out of context which is compared to the rest of the "story" good and bad teaming up together is really not that silly. EQ2 lore is all over the place so it doesnt make too much difference in the end. If you want a game with very specific lore and devs that have to adhere strictly to it, play LOTRO, that has never really been EQ's strong point so I dont see why its such a problem now.

Also when Im playing my character I dont get the sense that the world Im playing in is all about good vs evil (which imo is kinda boring and just a TAD played out anyway)..its more about adventuring in a world that has suffered quick and terrible change and doing what YOU want to do rather than you being just a cog in the wheel and fighting on a holy/demonic crusade against the opposition. EQ2 is more about giving you the excitement of exploring "new" places. At least new to that character. Thats also one reason I got bored with LOTRO. You can only do the good vs evil thing for so long before you realise...ummm this is getting redundant..every single quest that I do has to do with stopping the perpetual evil spilling out of Angmar. Its just a little generic (I love Tolkien, but theres only so many times you can kill an orc/goblic/warg before you start wishing Sauron was more diversified in his minions). Whereas with EQ2 the story is a bit more dynamic than that.

If you want to play a game where you go through the world and come upon your enemy and say "behold, thou are a troll, you are my sworn enemy since you chose the evil option on the character selection screen, now you must die" there is really no shortage of them out there. I dont mind that the EQ2 mechanics largely ignore it on the PVE servers, thats not what the game is for. And besides with the population as low as it is I really dont need to cut my potential group mates effectively in half because of the precious EQ2 pew pew lazerbeam lore.

Also just to add, Im a little confused by your stand point as well. EQ2 released this way, it was known well before hand that there was going to be no PVP and it was a PVE only game. Everyone knew they were not going to be able to do anything about their "enemies". If you had such a problem with it why would you even buy it? Which brings me back to my story about goodies and baddies camping for the same mob and just staring at each other..I guess thats what you envisioned when you bought the game? No grouping with the people you're supposed to hate...none of them living in your city and no interaction at all, but yet you see them all the time and cant interact with them at all. That makes 0 sense from a gameplay perspective.

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

 
OP  7/03/08 1:32:01 PM#14
Originally posted by SaibotKang
Originally posted by neonwire

Oh I totally see your point.......but then it really just highlights how badly designed EQ2 actually is. SOE decided to create a backstory of a good city vs an evil city which isnt even particularly interesting anyway and then decided to make it a PvE game where players cant actually do anything to their enemies! Surely it must have been blatantly obvious to them that it was a totally flawed idea? It gives the players the impression that the race they pick means something when in fact everyone is actually on the same side. Its an online game where players are supposed to interact with each other in a way that is relevant to the world the game is set in. If its not intended to be that way then SOE should not have set it up as such.

Of course no game should be taken completely seriously (its just a game afterall) but if the games lore completely contradicts itself by allowing players to do things they should not really be able to do then......well......why bother having the lore there at all then? Why not just come up with a basic background story with minimal information and just leave the players to it? The lore of an online game is one of the major parts of it. It helps to distract the player from the fact that the game itself is actually rather basic and uninvolving. It helps to suspend the persons belief and immerse them in an imaginative fantasy world. Its a bit like having a Star Wars game in which the Empire cant fight against the rebels. It completely defeats the point of the game.

The bit you said about "enemy" races camping the same area and not being able to do anything other than chat to each other......well......thats the whole point isnt it? EQ2's game does not fit the story at all. Surely they could have come up with some way for players to do something! Its an online game for gods sake! Basicly SOE just decided that they couldnt be bothered and instead went the opposite direction and said "ok well we've messed up here havent we......oh well sod it! We maw as well just ditch the storyline and just let everyone team up! Yeah we know it doesnt make any sense but it doesnt matter because people are dumb asses anyway and they wont even notice. They dont care about story or realism. They just want to go up levels and get phat loot. They will just buy any old crap we give them anyway. Ha ha ha! My oh my I never realised making an online game would be so easy. Fancy a cup of tea?"

So you dont see how that one aspect kills the story then? What......the fact that the players cant actively participate in that story properly? Hmmm......sorry I fail to see your logic.


 

You're taking the point out of context which is compared to the rest of the "story" good and bad teaming up together is really not that silly. EQ2 lore is all over the place so it doesnt make too much difference in the end. If you want a game with very specific lore and devs that have to adhere strictly to it, play LOTRO, that has never really been EQ's strong point so I dont see why its such a problem now.

Also when Im playing my character I dont get the sense that the world Im playing in is all about good vs evil (which imo is kinda boring and just a TAD played out anyway)..its more about adventuring in a world that has suffered quick and terrible change and doing what YOU want to do rather than you being just a cog in the wheel and fighting on a holy/demonic crusade against the opposition. EQ2 is more about giving you the excitement of exploring "new" places. At least new to that character. Thats also one reason I got bored with LOTRO. You can only do the good vs evil thing for so long before you realise...ummm this is getting redundant..every single quest that I do has to do with stopping the perpetual evil spilling out of Angmar. Its just a little generic (I love Tolkien, but theres only so many times you can kill an orc/goblic/warg before you start wishing Sauron was more diversified in his minions). Whereas with EQ2 the story is a bit more dynamic than that.

If you want to play a game where you go through the world and come upon your enemy and say "behold, thou are a troll, you are my sworn enemy since you chose the evil option on the character selection screen, now you must die" there is really no shortage of them out there. I dont mind that the EQ2 mechanics largely ignore it on the PVE servers, thats not what the game is for. And besides with the population as low as it is I really dont need to cut my potential group mates effectively in half because of the precious EQ2 pew pew lazerbeam lore.

Also just to add, Im a little confused by your stand point as well. EQ2 released this way, it was known well before hand that there was going to be no PVP and it was a PVE only game. Everyone knew they were not going to be able to do anything about their "enemies". If you had such a problem with it why would you even buy it? Which brings me back to my story about goodies and baddies camping for the same mob and just staring at each other..I guess thats what you envisioned when you bought the game? No grouping with the people you're supposed to hate...none of them living in your city and no interaction at all, but yet you see them all the time and cant interact with them at all. That makes 0 sense from a gameplay perspective.

I agree with most of what you say actually and I think I might be giving out the wrong impression. Firstly I think EQ2 is actually a pretty good game.....well.....its not exactly a good game as such but its certainly one of the best of the mmos. It does a lot of things very well. The graphics are fairly good and the lip synced voiceovers are rather nice too. It also does the whole "phat loot farming addiction" thing rather well. The quests are mostly childish rubbish but the addiction side of things kept me playing. So yeah its not that bad a game as far as mmos go.

When it comes to a sense of realism though EQ2 falls over. You say that there is no shortage of games where you can properly interact with your foe (apart from single player games) but I'm not so sure thats true is it. If there is an mmo out there that allows players to pick an opposing side and then interact properly in a gameworld thats story is about conflict then please let me know.

I know EQ2 was released as a PvE game. I bought it when it first came out. Me and a friend used to play as Dwarven brothers in the original EQ so we were rather excited about continueing their adventures in the new one. We were aware of the good city vs bad city setting. Neither of us liked it much (lets face it its a pretty lazy idea isnt it) but we were willing to give it a go. Each race in the first EQ had their very own starting cities in totally different parts of the world which was fantastic. It helped to define them as a race and made them seem more unique somehow. Dwarves were truly....well.....dwarfy! Splitting the races into two groups and squashing them into a single city was a really daft idea in my opinion but if thats what SOE wanted to do then so be it. So there we were wandering around the over-the-top gay city of Qeynos, helping fairies find lost cakes and glueing pages into books and then we see our first dark elf.....and then a troll.....and then another one.....and an ogre.....and.....oh......the monster races are freely roaming around Qeynos and no-one cares. My friend played for about a week before quitting in disgust. I stayed and played for a few months before quitting. In the original game, a player of an evil race would never have come near Kaladim let alone try and enter it. They would have been killed on sight!.....which was in keeping with the games back story. The original EQ stuck to its lore while EQ2 does not.

But anyway I bought the game ages ago because I loved the first one. That was mostly a PvE game too and to be honest not killing the enemy players was never an issue for me because the game didnt force me to meet them. EQ2's weak point is the fact that players from opposing races cant do anything to each other. Now that in itself would be ok......but why on earth does it shove that fact in our faces?! It constantly reminded me as I was playing it that the gameworld made no sense! In the first EQ I rarely ever saw a player of an enemy race but in EQ2 it is impossible to avoid them as they are everywhere. On the one hand its saying "Look at the wonderful lore we have created. Read about the evil trolls. Discover the villainy of the dark elves etc etc" and then with the other hand its saying "Forget the lore! Ignore it! Just play the game! The lore is just fluff! Its meaningless bullshit!". That is definately very bad game design. Why write a load of lore and then force the players to ignore parts of it.....essentially pissing over their own gameworld?

The reason this bugs me is because EQ2 could have easily been one of my favourite mmos. My friend was annoyed at how SOE trashed the game world too. It has a lot going for it.......but I dont like being told to just "ignore the game lore" as thats obviously stupid and defeats the point of it. EQ used to have a good gameworld but EQ2s lore has to be overlooked.....the player has to constantly turn a blind eye to bad game design.

But yeah yeah I know I can go and play another game, which of course I will. I just thnk its a shame that a decent gameworld got ruined. Oh well.

  ieldanth

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/08
Posts: 8

7/04/08 1:54:09 AM#15
Originally posted by funnylumpy

isn't most mmo's good vs evil , light vs darkness??


 

Well, there were a couple that had multiple factions...

DAoC had 3...

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

 
OP  7/04/08 10:30:08 AM#16
Originally posted by ieldanth
Originally posted by funnylumpy

isn't most mmo's good vs evil , light vs darkness??


 

Well, there were a couple that had multiple factions...

DAoC had 3...

 

Yeah actually DAoC was mostly a PvE game with an optional RvR war to get involved in if the fancy took you. It really gave you an impression of being a part of your particular realm and also encouraged a bit of roleplaying amongst the players.....and yet each side was kept seperate. You could not encounter your opponents while out adventuring unless you actually chose to enter into the RvR zones so in that sense it maintained a degree of realism and the game matched it storyline. Also when you did meet players from an apposing faction you didnt sit down and have a cup of tea with them. You attacked the bloody bastards!

Of course EQ2 couldnt have been anything like that now could it.....oh no no. Of course in EQ2 Qeynos and Freeport arent REALLY at war are they. Its just a cold war which obviously means they are all friends. *Cough cough bullshit cough*

  SaibotKang

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/07
Posts: 90

7/05/08 2:41:45 AM#17

Of course its not a realistic game, its fantasy based. If you want realism as far as pwning noobs goes you have the PVP servers. You say thats not your thing, but yet thats basically what you're saying is wrong with EQ2. They added that a long time ago for people that didnt just want to play a PVE game. I really dont see what other steps they could take..you want them to toataly change the design focus into RVR when that wasnt the game that they wanted to make from the start. Ive never played WoW but from what I hear they have plenty of that type of gameplay.

  neonwire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 1808

 
OP  7/05/08 5:34:39 AM#18
Originally posted by SaibotKang

Of course its not a realistic game, its fantasy based. If you want realism as far as pwning noobs goes you have the PVP servers. You say thats not your thing, but yet thats basically what you're saying is wrong with EQ2. They added that a long time ago for people that didnt just want to play a PVE game. I really dont see what other steps they could take..you want them to toataly change the design focus into RVR when that wasnt the game that they wanted to make from the start. Ive never played WoW but from what I hear they have plenty of that type of gameplay.


 

No you dont get it. Its ok cos your not the only one that cant get your head round the concept. Many people find the idea confusing.

Yes its a fantasy game. That doesnt mean it cant be a bit realistic. In fact like I said it does lots of things very well. There is no reason why it should deviate from its own back story though. Being a fantasy game does not mean that it shouldnt make any sense. Understand?

No I dont want to be able to simply "pwn noobs" and I'm not saying lack of PvP is whats wrong with EQ2. I'm not some gank-happy kid that just wants to kill other players for the sake of it. What I would have liked is if EQ2 had not deviated so much from the original EQ setup. I quite like roleplaying (to a degree) and getting immersed in the gameworld. EQ2 breaks that for me by forcing me into situations where I am continually meeting players from enemy races that I cant do anything about other than befriend. Like I said before this rather goes against the games setting.

Also I am well aware that EQ2 was not designed as an RvR game. I honestly dont know why people keep stating the obvious and pointing that out. I know its not going to change. I am saying though that it was a very bad design choice considering the game is based around a good vs evil plotline. So yes in a way I would actually like them to change the focus of the game to an RvR setup......in fact maybe should have designed it that way from the beginning......but of course I know that isnt going to happen now. EQ2 is what it is and thats that. Of course there are not any steps they could take to improve the game now without completely remaking the thing.......which is why I left and await something better in the future.

  SaibotKang

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/07
Posts: 90

7/05/08 9:26:36 PM#19
Originally posted by neonwire


 

No you dont get it. Its ok cos your not the only one that cant get your head round the concept. Many people find the idea confusing.

Yes its a fantasy game. That doesnt mean it cant be a bit realistic. In fact like I said it does lots of things very well. There is no reason why it should deviate from its own back story though. Being a fantasy game does not mean that it shouldnt make any sense. Understand?

No I dont want to be able to simply "pwn noobs" and I'm not saying lack of PvP is whats wrong with EQ2. I'm not some gank-happy kid that just wants to kill other players for the sake of it. What I would have liked is if EQ2 had not deviated so much from the original EQ setup. I quite like roleplaying (to a degree) and getting immersed in the gameworld. EQ2 breaks that for me by forcing me into situations where I am continually meeting players from enemy races that I cant do anything about other than befriend. Like I said before this rather goes against the games setting.

Also I am well aware that EQ2 was not designed as an RvR game. I honestly dont know why people keep stating the obvious and pointing that out. I know its not going to change. I am saying though that it was a very bad design choice considering the game is based around a good vs evil plotline. So yes in a way I would actually like them to change the focus of the game to an RvR setup......in fact maybe should have designed it that way from the beginning......but of course I know that isnt going to happen now. EQ2 is what it is and thats that. Of course there are not any steps they could take to improve the game now without completely remaking the thing.......which is why I left and await something better in the future.


 

So you want to roleplay and kill your enemy and all that, and it basically ruins the game if you cant. Nobody has trouble understanding that concept at all, in fact a lot of people thought that way about EQ2 a long time ago. Then they added the PVP servers to accomodate the people who felt that way. And you're saying you dont want to PVP. Theres nothing else that they could do to make you happy, I suppose you're just one of those people that just has to complain about whatever they do no matter what. And that is also ok because a lot of people do that. If you just simply dont like the betrayal system in the game, then I can kinda of understand but I do think that is really nit picking. Its a very small concept in the overall scheme of the game. Now you say you want EQ2 to be a RVR game? lol Thats like me buying it and saying it should be a skilled based game rather than a class based game. *I* obviously think that would be better but the people who do like the game as it is obviously play it for a reason. The last thing EQ2 needs is SOE to go all NGE on it 5 years after launch. Killing your existing subscriber base is not the key to gaining new customers.

EQ2 is NOT designed to be simply a "good vs evil" game. I thought we had already went over that. Yes there is a good city and an evil city and they use that barrier to restrict and seperate class choices, but by no means has it been the focal point of the game, ever. You obviously think the SOE devs are just big dummies for not harssening this "original" plotline they came up with to max effect, but they decided to take it a different route. And what they came up with in my opinion was a very unique atmosphere and a pretty damn good game. And for those that absolutely must kill the people from the opposite city may play on the PVP servers and pwn and get pwned as much as they want.

By the way EQ2 doesnt really deviate from its story at all. The story is that the gods got all pissy with the world and left and then bad things happend and fireballs fell from the sky and earthquakes tore everyones shit up and they were really scared. Then random people start showing up in the world to be adventures and they chose either to side for freeport or qeynos and go around the wrold leveling up and doing quests. The world is too traumitized for them to much worry about going to direct war with the other city and theres better things to worry about anyways. Such as at regular intervals a new area of the destroyed world is unlocked for them to explore and stuff. That is the story in EQ2 more or less, the devs stick to it pretty well imo.

  bufford

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/06
Posts: 39

7/05/08 9:31:19 PM#20
Originally posted by neonwire
Originally posted by SaibotKang

Of course its not a realistic game, its fantasy based. If you want realism as far as pwning noobs goes you have the PVP servers. You say thats not your thing, but yet thats basically what you're saying is wrong with EQ2. They added that a long time ago for people that didnt just want to play a PVE game. I really dont see what other steps they could take..you want them to toataly change the design focus into RVR when that wasnt the game that they wanted to make from the start. Ive never played WoW but from what I hear they have plenty of that type of gameplay.


 

No you dont get it. Its ok cos your not the only one that cant get your head round the concept. Many people find the idea confusing.

Yes its a fantasy game. That doesnt mean it cant be a bit realistic. In fact like I said it does lots of things very well. There is no reason why it should deviate from its own back story though. Being a fantasy game does not mean that it shouldnt make any sense. Understand?

No I dont want to be able to simply "pwn noobs" and I'm not saying lack of PvP is whats wrong with EQ2. I'm not some gank-happy kid that just wants to kill other players for the sake of it. What I would have liked is if EQ2 had not deviated so much from the original EQ setup. I quite like roleplaying (to a degree) and getting immersed in the gameworld. EQ2 breaks that for me by forcing me into situations where I am continually meeting players from enemy races that I cant do anything about other than befriend. Like I said before this rather goes against the games setting.

Also I am well aware that EQ2 was not designed as an RvR game. I honestly dont know why people keep stating the obvious and pointing that out. I know its not going to change. I am saying though that it was a very bad design choice considering the game is based around a good vs evil plotline. So yes in a way I would actually like them to change the focus of the game to an RvR setup......in fact maybe should have designed it that way from the beginning......but of course I know that isnt going to happen now. EQ2 is what it is and thats that. Of course there are not any steps they could take to improve the game now without completely remaking the thing.......which is why I left and await something better in the future.

The game your describing, the game you want is Warhammer Online. Good vs Evil RVR. If you haven't checked it out already, your probably going to love this mmo.
 

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